This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/293.2 Message Board Post: There is an 1870 map on this page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/census.htm Board Administrator

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/293.1 Message Board Post: Larry, You can see the creation/evolution dates for IDAHO counties at http://www.rootsweb.com/~idgenweb/ Board Administrator

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/293 Message Board Post: Can anyone tell me if the small community of Oxford, Idaho was in Oneida or Bannack County in 1870?

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/291.1 Message Board Post: Taryn, I don't know anything about this family, but could you have meant Owyhee County? Owyhee County is near Boise, Idaho, but Oneida County isn't. Oneida county is close to the Utah border and Pocatello in the SE part of the state and Boise is in the SW part of the state. Arlene

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Williams Classification: Obituary Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/292 Message Board Post: The Standard-Examiner, Sat, July 13, 2002 MALAD, Idaho - Edwin D. Williams, age 77, passed away at his home on June 27, 2002. He was born March 22, 1925 in Malad, Idaho to Robert E. and Anne C. Williams. He was the seventh of eleven children. Ed graduated from Malad High School and attended Snow College, where he lettered in football. He loved the outdoors. Ed farmed in the Pocatello Valley for many years. He also worked as an operating engineer. Ed was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was a WWII veteran and served his country in the U.S. Navy from July 1943 through March 1946. Ed was a loving brother and uncle to his family. He is survived by two brothers, Robert E. (Fay) Williams, Jerome, ID; Daryl Don (Juanita) Williams, Malad, ID; two sisters, Ella Mae (Ted) Lott, Blackfoot, ID; Joyce Scott, Ogden, UT. He is also survived by two sister-in-laws, Shirley Williams, Lorraine Williams, both of Ogden; many nieces and nephews, grand nieces and grand nephews. He was preceded in death by his parents; five brothers, Errol, Leon, Clyde, Ray, and Gene; one sister, Anne Tenhaeff. Funeral services will be held Monday, July 15, 2002 at 12:00 p.m. at Horsley Funeral Home in Malad, Idaho. Friends may call one hour prior to services. Interment in the Malad City Cemetery.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Stephens, Evans Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Thank you so much Steve. I'm certain your last message will be of great interest to all family members who reach it. My wife told me last night that she thinks very few people actually go beyond a surname search. I hope they do. Then you must know the proprietors of the B&B up the hill (the one where you throw the bedroom window open in the morning to look out upon the valley), and the vicar too. Very nice people. One of the highlights of our last trip there was a "Duck Race" along the creek. By the way, I just wonder how people walked up and down that hill every day, without a car! Quite the hike! So, when are you going to take it upon yourself to do further research on our family? The problem is that this kind of stuff never provides one with an income. I just completed a 232-page (315 family photos) second volume of Illum Family History and sent it on CD to every family member I know of in the U.S. I could never afford to have it printed, especially with the number of photos. I simply asked for voluntary contributions. We'll see what comes of it. I'm not sure if I envy you for living in Pencader. It's a beautiful place . . . in the warm time of year. What do you do for a living there? Most of the people we met there are older, relatively poor people, but VERY gracious and hospitable. You are absolutely correct about the social status of D.P. Stephens. Very, very poor. I'm certain that's a part of why they emigrated to the U.S., for some improved "possibilities". Much of what we have here is "folklore" about our family, though some place more stock in it. How do you phonetically pronounce this nickname for David P., "Deio"? My father had an uncle, David Deschamps, probably named for his grandfather David Phillips Stephens. When Dad was a boy, he called this uncle "Dee-ahh". Who knows how to spell it correctly? You must know all about the Deschamps (also French-Canadian) and Stephens families in the history of St. John then. There are many of them today, but they are now scattered far and wide. Steve

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Hi Steve To begin at the beginning, I have lived in Pencader for 25 years and researched its history for 12 years before writing my book. I have indeed walked up the hill and investigated the ruins of Alltfechan. You’ll be pleased to know they are not even a stone’s throw from the terrace but immediately behind the nearest house in your photo (the two houses have been knocked into one). I have also checked census details, which I will include below. There is some disagreement about the exact location of Alltfechan – was it the terrace or the house behind? The evidence is unclear and no building at all is shown on the tithe map of c1840. But if David Phillips Stephens, who was only a poor farm labourer and therefore at the bottom of the social structure, was born there in 1813 it cannot have been the present terrace. It can only have been a single storey stone dwelling with a sleeping loft under a thatched roof. But whatever the actual building, that is certain! ly the spot. Do not remove the photos Steve. They are relevant and show familiar views – and people – and will be of interest to anyone unable to visit – and help those who intend to visit.. I can imagine how exciting and evocative it must have been to look out across the valley and see a landscape that your ancestors would probably have recognised spread out below. You wonder why I’m so interested. My original motive for my research was to learn about the history of the place where I came to settle. I was born in St Leonard, New Brunswick of a wartime romance and marriage between a French-Canadian and a Briton that broke down. My Carmarthenshire grandmother ( born in Llannon, Llanelli to a vicar brought up by the forge in Llanbadarn Fawr, Aberystwyth to a family that had been blacksmiths for generations) was instrumental in getting my mother and four kids back to Britain. I’ve learned Welsh well enough to understand it, read it and sort of speak it. I work as a journalist and biographer. So that’s me. As my research progressed I realised that most indigenous inhabitants knew very little about their local history either – plenty of family stories and anecdotes, mostly fairly recent, but not a lot of facts. There was no real education about local, or even Welsh, history in schools until about the 1980s. I was excited to come across Evan Stephens and his family, and also another earlier migrant to America, David Evans, who became the first Presbyterian Minister to be trained and ordained in America – he went there in 1704. His catechism, printed by Benjamin Franklin, is the earliest surviving American catechism, now held by the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia, and his biographical poem Can Drwstan Gwynfan (a clumsy lament) is now preserved in the Rosenbach Library and Museum in Philadelphia. I am currently writing an article about Evan Stephens, your great-great grandmother’s brother, for the magazine of the Carmarthenshire Antiquarian Society. I enclose a short section: David Phillips Stephens, known as Deio, was a farm labourer who was also born at Alltfechan in December 1811. His mother was Jane, born in 1813 at Llyswen, Carmarthenshire, daughter of Thomas Evans and Elinor Jones, who both came from near Cardigan, according to one account, but the 1851 census records her as born in the parish of Llanarth, Cardiganshire. Evan was the youngest of ten children (although two sisters, Jane and Rachel, died as children) and occasionally referred to himself as the “tithe” of his father's family. Deio listed his occupation in the 1841 census as an agricultural labourer, so we can assume that life was a struggle for meagre reward at a time of deep rural depression. The children were put to work as soon as possible. None of the eldest children listed in the 1841 census - Daniel aged 7, Thomas, 5, and Anne, aged one – were still living at home ten years later. Even Deio was absent from the house on the night of the 1851 census, and none of his older children are recorded anywhere else in the parish. We may assume they had already found work through family contacts or a hiring fair, but the family evidently stayed close as later events testified. Deio was converted by the fiery Mormon leader Captain Dan Jones of Merthyr Tydfil and the first recorded Seion y Mormoniaid in Pencader was held at Alltfechan in July, 1847. Deio was made president of the Pencader branch of the Mormon church and Alltfechan became the regular meeting place for members of the Church of Latter Day Saints in the area. Some of Evan’s earliest memories would have been Mormon meetings with groups of people, heads bowed and arms uplifted as they prayed and sang in his home. He grew up learning about the gospel and the stirring message of the Latter Day Saints. He also went to school, probably to the little schoolroom attached to the Independent Chapel just down the road from his home, but we have no way of knowing how often he was able to go. But by the age of ten he had started work as a shepherd to help support the family. One of his brothers was David, four years older than Evan. David later wrote a short autobiography that helps to shed some light on Evan’s early days in Pencader and their journey to America. [David Stephens Journal, Brigham Young University, Salt Lake City.] David Stephens was born at Alltfechan on July 31, 1850. He was the eighth child. He says his father was 22 and his mother 19 when they married and their ancestors were quite noted authors. His father’s forbears were also noted ministers of the Independent Church, and his mother’s ancestors “nearly always took first prise [sic] at the Eisteddfod.” We know from the census returns that Jane was born in the Cardiganshire parish of Llanarth and they must have married in 1831 or 1832. [end of section] David’s journal is recommended reading for anyone interested in the pioneers. Your great-grandmother Ann, written as Anne in the records, was the real pioneer, going out first – and alone! – to America. Tom followed a year later and they worked for two years to send anough money back home for the rest of the family to follow. Welsh patronymics in brief: Genealogy was – is – very important for the Welsh. Whereas English surnames were based on trades – Smith, Taylor, Mason – or nicknames – Keen, Hardy – or topographical features – Hill, Green – or personal names – Jackson, Annis – or just placenames – Clifton, Coleridge, Newton – Welsh people traced their ancestry in their names. So it was John son of Hugh son of William, son of Davy and on back. Kinship was central to Welsh law. The “ap” is “map”, modern Welsh “mab” meaning “son” and the equivalent of the Scottish Mac and the Irish Mc. They all denote “son (of)” – it’s another case of the ‘p’s and ‘q’s of the two branches of the Celtic language; similarly the Welsh “pen” for head is “cen” in Iris! h and Scots Gaelic. Daughters would be known as “verch” – modern Welsh “ferch” for daughter (of) often shortened vch or vz in documents. The “ap” got dropped. For instance, David Evan’s son would be known as William David and his son as John William. When Anglicised surnames became the fashion – and the civil service rule – the William(s) became permanent, a transition that was complete by the first two decades of the 19th century. The “ap” survived in some areas to give Pritchard (ap Richard), Price (ap Rice or Rhys) Probert (ap Robert) etc. There are some exceptions to the rule (of course!) such as Llywelyn and Lloyd (both upper class names) and Morgan (a sailor or sea captain). Most records of Pencader and its people are in two places. The Public Record Office at Parc Myrddin, Carmarthen is useful and the archivists very helpful. The other main source is the National Library of Wales at Aberystwyth 40 miles to the north – see their website. The staff there are helpful too, but there’s only so much they can do, and therefore only so much anyone can do without actually going there or engaging a researcher. My book, This Small Corner, A History of Pencader and District, is available from the publishers Carmarthenshire County Council, Parc Myrddin, Carmarthen. A synopsis with chapter headings can be seen on the Carmarthenshire Family History Society website: www.carmarthenshirefhs.co.uk which is a useful site for family historians. Steve Dubé

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1.3 Message Board Post: Steve, Are you related to our family? If not, I'm just wondering about your apparent strong interest in our family? Steve

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Steve, Have you actually walked on Alltfechan Terrace? Have you walked up the road? I've done it several times. I just don't remember what was just behind the row of houses. However, that hill is so steep that it's hard to imagine anything being built up behind the row of houses. Not disputing your point, but just wanting more comment? I honestly don't care which exact house they lived in, or if it still exists. I do care about the very special feelings I had while being right there. It was the place where my great grandmother (Ann Stephens) lived, where she grew up, the view she saw every day of her young life, the very place where she and her family were converted to the Church. Steve

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Stephens, Evans Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Do you think I should remove the photos? I've had several family members write to me expressing thanks for posting them. I do believe they represent Pencader and Alltfechan Terrace well. The Welsh people who live in the old undated row of houses still seem to feel pretty strongly about their conclusion. Believe me, it was pretty exciting to look out upon the view of the valley as my ancestors did. By the way, are you a Stephens? Just wondering. Are you a resident of St. John or Malad, Idaho? Does your family history take you there? If so, we are ALL needing help from you. I don't need a book that just tells me that my ancestors did not live in a house near where we thought it was. What else will it tell us about our ancestors? Is it written in English? We might be able to convince our local family history centers or public libraries to purchase it for us, especially the interested folks currently living in the Malad Valley where so many of their ancestors from Pencader settled. We need a serious break-through. We don't understand the patronymic naming system. We don't understand the 1800s or Welsh language from any other period. People in Pencader told my wife and I that the records for the area are now located in Aberystwyth (spelling?), north of Carmarthenshire. Can you tell us how to gain access to those records? As our stout Welsh ancestors who crossed the Plains, many of us are do-it-yourself-ers. I suggest you keypunch us a copy of your book's Table of Contents so we can see what's in it. For those who might be interested in developing a purchase so that many can have access, please provide information . . . address if bookstore that stocks the book. I don't consider $25 + a few dollars for shipping expensive, and certainly public libraries that are funded by the Carnegie Foundation won't. For those Stephens family members who are reading this string of messages concerning the actual dwelling of the D.P. Stephens family, what Mr. Dube' is explaining is that perhaps the REAL dwelling may be a stone's throw from the old row of houses at Alltfechan Terrace. The original source for the information information given to me back in about 1960 was Evelyn Deschamps, a pretty sharp lady of St. John, and I'm not just real sure what her source was. My Aunt Edna Illum Rooker probably gave me Evelyn's family group sheet. When I showed a photocopy of that sheet to 84 year-old Evan Evans in Pencader, he about "fell out of the saddle" with excitement because he showed me the exact spot. Back to Steve, how about some real help from you for some lay family historians? Suggestions about where we should go next. Most of us only have family records that were passed down from our pioneer ancestors. Steve Illum

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1.1 Message Board Post: OK, Steve, only trying to help. The Stephens family could not possibly have lived in the terrace because it was not built until the 1880s. And I don't mean the buildings below the house, which were once a bakery and a cobblers, but the house foundations and tumbled stones that believe me still exist to the rear of the terrace, which was named in recognition of Alltfechan itself. Incidentally you may be interested to know that one half of Alltfechan Terrace - nearest the road and immediately in front of the Alltfechan remains - is now occupied by the premiere traditional singer in Wales, Julie Murphy and her partner Ceri Rhys Matthews, a multi-instrumentalist and producer who is largely reponsible for some of the best traditional music currently being produced in Wales. They have researched and revisited the songs of the immediate area around Pencader, some of which the Stephens family would known and maybe remembered as they walked 1,000 miles from the Missouri River to Salt Lake in 1866.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Stephens, Evans Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/218.1.1 Message Board Post: Sorry, I met an 84 year-old man in 1992 who was music director in Pencader, Evan Evans. He gave me directions to Alltfechan Terrace where he said the David Phillips Stephens family once lived. In 1996 (then Evan Evans was deceased), my wife and I returned and met the people who invited me into their home that they explained was the exact place where the David Phillips Stephens family once lived. And, my wife and I then proceeded to meet most of the old folks in Pencader. We were introduced to living Stephens family members who also said this is where the David Phillips Stephens family once lived. Yes, there is a "tumbled down" row of buildings BELOW the houses, but we were told that was NOT where the David Phillips Stephens family lived. I sincerely am not interested in purchasing your book.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/218.1 Message Board Post: It's good to see photos of Pencader online but I write to correct a factual innaccuracy. The Stephens family lived in a house that is now no more than a jumble of old stones immediately above Alltfechan Terrace in Pencader. The terrace was built later. I have written about the Stephens family in my history of Pencader, This Small Corner, which was published by Carmarthenshire County Council in September 2000. The book is fully illustrated and costs £10 but is quite large and expensive to send. I am willing to send it to anyone who wants to read a fairly comprehensive history of the area for £15 - I suppose you would have to send an international money order.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/153.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Thank you

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/153.1.1 Message Board Post: Sorry, I do not. I am not related to this family. I am a volunteer who place the obit in the Rootsweb board for Oneida County. I would suggest that you contact the mortuary for addresses of family members. Perhaps they could tell you if their family had relations in WI. Arlene

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/153.1 Message Board Post: Do you know of any Marble's in WI in the 1880's?

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: WILLIAMS/ OTT/GROVENOR/LEHMAN Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/291 Message Board Post: I am looking for any information on Sarah Williams who was married to a m#2William R. WILLIAMS in 1902. She has several middle initials. Sarah J, Sarah F, Sarah A. Before that she was m#1 to a William OTT they had 10 children. They came from PA.>WA. then were divorced for William OTT had abandoned her and family. I believe they owned some property in Oneida County, near Boise, Idaho. Would love to know more about this family. They had the following children: Sarah(Sadie) Mae Williams b.23 May 1894 and Robert E. Williams b. November 06, 1897 Sarah or Sadie Mae Williams m1 a Henery H. GROVENOR on 20 May 1911 in Coure d'lene Idaho and m #2 a Henry Leo Lehman on 01 December 1923 in Spokane, Wa. Any connections??? Please e-mail me. Thank-You

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Lewis, Zundel, Larsen, Sorensen Classification: Obituary Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/290 Message Board Post: The Standard Examiner, Tue, July 2, 2002 Gail Zundel Lewis passed away peacefully on June 29, 2002, Malad, Idaho. He was born Dec. 3, 1919, Mesa, Arizona to John Dudley and Rosethela Mae Zundel Lewis. He married Edith Larsen September 8, 1944, Portland, Oregon (solemnized in Salt Lake LDS Temple Dec. 28, 1944). He later married Gwendolyn Sutton Sorensen July 1, 1983, Malad, Idaho. He served in the U.S. Navy during Korean Conflict. Dr. Lewis practiced dentistry for 40 years in Bountiful and Salt Lake. Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Gail is survived by his loving, dedicated wife, Gwen; children Meredith L. Sorensen (Terry), Johnparley L. Lewis (Kathleen); step-children Terry P. Sorensen (Meredith), J. Randall Sorensen (Cheri), Patricia Cross (Edward), Jeanette Guymon (Michael), Robert D. Sorensen (Terri); eight grandchildren, twelve step-grandchildren, one great-granddaughter; sisters Willa Mae Coy (Blaine), Donna Visser (Paul); many nieces and nephews. Preceded in death by parents, wife Edith, son Richard Gail Lewis; brothers Jarrell Don Lewis, Blaine Jay Lewis. Funeral services will be held on Wednesday July 3, 2002 at 12 noon in the Parley"s LDS ward chapel, 2350 S. 2100 E., Salt Lake City, Utah. Friends may call at the Horsley Funeral Home 132 W. 300 N. Malad, this evening July 2 from 6-8 pm and on Wednesday at the church 10:30-11:45 am. Burial with military rites will be held at Wasatch Lawn Cemetery.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Qg.2ADE/161.1.1 Message Board Post: Ted, I am sorry, I am unable to help you. I am not a member of the family. I am a volunteer for Rootsweb and I place obits into various counties in Idaho that I am either familiar with or have lived there. May I suggest that you contact the mortuary that handled Mrs. Alley's funeral and ask them for addresses for some of the family members. They would probably be able to answer your questions. Arlene

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/Qg.2ADE/161.1 Message Board Post: hi, could she have lived in stockton california in 1963-4 i am also looking for relatives..especially aunt eleanor and doris smith pittman. i never knew aunties last name. but she was born 1909 ,in california i think. please get back to me..thank you ted