This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: farwellwalter Surnames: Deroscher, Hoecken, Greenwood, Mehitamgakwe, Townsend, Murphy, Stephens Classification: lookup Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.iowa.counties.fremont/7408.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Tim: I think it is in error that we assume that sponsors at a Hoecken baptism must be man and wife; Maylor Derocher and Josette Wilmet were sponsors at the same baptism in 1843, but that does not mean they were also married. SO, the glaring lapse of mental competency was my remark in the "note bene" portion of my post of April 25, 2009 wherein I said that Mary Ann Mehitamgokwe was the wife of J. B. Deroscher. Of course, that is WRONG, but the remainder seems to be correctly stated and typed. May I refer you to my post of October 5, 2001 entitled "Notes on Josette Wilmet". While rereading the 1843 Hoecken missionary trip in the fall, it occurs to me that Deroscher probably had more information for the Murphys regarding Caleb Greenwood that did Hoecken. Hoecken was certainly in a position to have heard about California, but Deroscher had been around Greenwood's neighborhood for all the time Caleb had resided there -- as had Mary Anna Mehitmgakwe. They easily could have known what Greenwood was thinking. I'll bet the scenario about the earlier considerations which enabled that famous 1844 wagon train to transverse the Great West would show Deroscher starring in the leading role. It was Caleb Greenwood who would guide the Stephens - Townsend - Murphy party to the Rocky Mountains. Have you given any thought about creating something to fill the void between the fall of 1843 and the spring of 1844? I bet you would be surprised with what you could come up with by using presuppositional thinking. Of course, you weren't there, but neither would be the person who nevertheless "knows" what happened when told that a particular child, whom he had not heard, had counted from one to ten. Your great great great grandfather should be elected as the one responsible to add his bit to the story of this country's western migration, which has been called one of the greatest phenomenon of the world! And as if that weren't enough, I still have not given up on the chance that the J. B. Deroscher who accompanied Fremont in the fall and winter of 1843 was not the same person as your great great great grandfather! Hoecken is the proof that your ancestor was in the same place (the Kansas City area) as Fremont had just passed through on his way to the Rocky Mountians. He could easily have left Hoecken and hurried to catch up with J.C.F. -- such things had been done before. Your list of children shows no births during this interval either, and, WHY NOT? I do not understand the use of the French "dit". However, when I study the personal social standing of the Frenchmen who appear to have lived around present Thurman, Iowa, I am amazed at what I see. The list begins to look like a WHO'S WHO. For instance, Anthony Bruno was undoubtedly Antoine Petit dit Bruno, descended from the royalty created by France at Maskinonge during the time that country held Canada. Nor can you ignore the Robideau name, nor Caleb Greenwood himself, whose son earlier on in the 1850's hobnobbed with the upper classes. Portions of Chicago is still known as Wilmet!....Have you ever tried to find "Frapp" when it was referring to the royalty of France? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.