Sorry if this message goes out twice but I have not seen this on the list or on the archives Les _____ From: Laszlo Josa [mailto:lesjosa@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:58 AM To: HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: book research site Hello fellow Magyar researchers, recently I think I told you about a book written about my family Josa. Miklos Josa in Hungary has emailed me and sent me some good info on the family. He has also sent me a website which I thought was of interest to most of us. I am also sending the copy of the email which is for all to see (there are no private info in this email) and make comments or suggestions on my next course of action in my research. Take care, Laszlo (Les) Josa Here is the email Dear Les, Hi! How are you doing? Before I forget, I want to congratulate you on your achievements in genealogy research and drawing up your family tree. Besides I want to answer your question first. I have found only one website where the book on my family history can be purchased, here it is <http://www.kubon-sagner.de/buch/lager/180_93_4.html> http://www.kubon-sagner.de/buch/lager/180_93_4.html * 8521282 Band 3: JOSA, MIKLOS; ULRICH, ATTILA: A nemetszögyeni es banhazi Josa csalad törtenete. Alte ungarische Familien, Bd.3: Geschichte der Familie Josa aus Nemetszögyen und Banhaza. Debrecen, Hajdu-Bihar m. Muz. Igazg., 2005. ISBN 9637218483. Geb., 205 S., in ung. Sprache. , 23,00 Euro Thank you for your quick reply and the attachments. By the way, I have just realized that many of my previously sent attachements had been written either in Hungarian with Hungarian alphabet or in a mix of Latin and Hungarian, which could make it hard or impossible for you to read. Sorrry. From now on I will use English only, even in my attachments, so there should be no miscommunication in the future. Here is some explanation for things you can find in the attachment titled Zala, Vas es Veszprem megyei Josak: Page 1. MOL stands for the Hungarian National Archive which is a branch of the Hungarian National Museum. It has a collection of microfilms on all kinds of written records dating all the way back to the early medieval times. The roll I took my information from amessess records of the registry books of the provostship in Lelesz. Noteworthy records were found under item no. 1253, 1231 and 1185 from the years 1560, 1563 and 1564 respectively. I found these records about six years ago, and due to my limited knowledge of Latin I was mainly focusing on the names of towns and families found in the text. In addition to names I naturally focused on certain Latin words as well, that could guide me in my research and help me decide if I should do further digging or if I should not. You know, the names of landed properties which were bequethed to members of the subsequent generations within a family, can be very good indicators of family ties between people with a broken lineage, or with a huge gap in the lineage. For example, if we find records of someone named Josa who happens to be a noble person and owns a piece of land in Kovagoors, and we find an other person by the same surname as a land owner in the same settlement 150 years later, we can predict with high probability that the two are related. However high probability can not be considered proof, therefore you must do further research to find the linking family members between these two. Under Megjegyzes you can find my remarks in Hungarian on the possibility of connections among those highlighted names and places, and on what else these records reveal that can be clues. Page 2. It seems very likely that under Schneider Miklós: Fejér megyei nemes családok I happen to have found members of your family, Istvan Josa and his ancestors. However, we have no idea where Mr. Miklos Schneider got his information from. We know nothing about the original records which could reveal much more! First and foremost it should be found out when those records were made. But who knows if they still exist, and if so, where they can be found. However, what Miklos Schneider wrote in his book is at least evidence to that your great, great, great grand Pa was in fact a member of the kemenesaljai es szentmartoni Josa clan. You are saying My oldest records are from the microfilm records at the LDS Mormon church is of my great, great, great, great grandparents István Josa and Judith Rompos in <http://mail.yahoo.com/config/login?/_javascript:top.jma%281488%29> Kõvágóörs they got married on Március 5, 1764. It is really intriguing that on the first page of the above document there is a Josa mentioned by the name Wolfgangus Sawol who seems to possess landed property in Kovagoors. He is withour any doubt a member of the savolyi Josa family ( and at this point you have no choice but believe me that he was in fact a Josa. I have done thorough research on him and I know this persons lineage and history fairly well. I should also tell you that it was not uncommon in the the 16th century to have records of the same people, or brothers and sisters appearing with many different surnames, even within the same wrtitten record !). Now the question arises if there is any connection between the savolyi and the kemenesaljai es szentmartoni Josas. Let us take our train of thoughts just a bit further. My family line, as you can see it in my book, is unbroken and continous all the way from Anton Josa who was granted the nemetszogyeni title and crest by King Rudolf II. in 1583. We have no reason to doubt, eventhough there is no new evidence in our hands to corroborate my great great uncles findings, that the parents of Anton Josa were Benedek Josa and Sofia Szentmartoni. This Benedek was most likely related to (as brother or cousin or son) that particular Janos Josa who used to live in and possess the whole of Szentmarton in Kemenesalja around the year 1550. Can you still follow me? If our logic is not wrong, those who became known as nemetszogyeni Josa and those who lived with the kemenesaljai Josa name must be two separate branches of the same family tree which separated in the early 16th century. It would be quite something to prove it, would it not? And even if we fail to prove anything, or prove that we have been wrong all along, it might be worth giving a shot. That is all for now. Take good care. Best wishes, Miklos