I'm returning to my genealogy research after an absence of several years and I'm expanding my research beyond my ancestor's immediate villages to try and go back a little further. But I have some questions about the traditions in Hungary in the 19th century that perhaps a more experienced researcher can answer for me. What was the status of women who gave birth to illegitimate children? I've found the notation "hajadon," which appears to mean "single, unmarried woman." That's obviously a different designation than "celebs" or "virgine," which I'm finding for women who are marrying for the first time. Did these women usually live alone or with their families? Some of them later married, so giving birth to an illegitimate child was apparently not an obstacle to marriage. But the stigma of illegitimacy obviously stayed with the child because I've also found death notices for 70-year-olds that note their illegitimacy. (An apparent case of the sins of the fathers being passed on to the children....) Did illegitimacy make it more difficult for the child to marry? In one village it appears that marriages, baptisms, etc. were all conducted one day a month. Were there visiting priests who traveled from village to village, performing those ceremonies? What was done with people who died between visits? Where they just buried, with a funeral mass conducted later? Godparents appear to be friends (or sometimes cousins) of the parents of a child being baptised. Was that typical? Why weren't aunts or uncles of the child used as godparents? If two people being married are related to the 3rd degree of consanguinity, does that mean that they had a common great-grandparent or a common great-great-grandparent? At what level of consanquinity was a dispensation required? In one village that I'm researching, nearly every marrying couple is related to the 3rd degree, but I'm not seeing any notes about dispensations. Under what circumstances were dispensations granted? Although I have a list of occupation names in both Hungarian and Latin, I'm not finding interpretations for two occupations: arendator and diversitor dnalis (with a curvy line over the N). Were these government or military positions of some kind? Any suggestions on where I could look to find answers? Thanks for any help you can provide. Sue

----- Original Message ----- From: <KahluaSue@aol.com> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Miscellaneous questions For the Banat Schwab's Illegitimate Children's Problem see our comment http://www.genealogy.ro/cont/12.htm > ... I've > found the notation "hajadon," which appears to mean "single, unmarried > woman." That's obviously a different designation than "celebs" or "virgine," which > I'm finding for women who are marrying for the first time. Hajadon is only the Hungarian word for the Latin coeleb/virgo [female involved]. ... > In one village it appears that marriages, baptisms, etc. were all conducted > one day a month. Or that the priest recorded the events only once a month in the church records! > Were there visiting priests who traveled from village to > village, performing those ceremonies? What was done with people who died > between visits? Where they just buried, with a funeral mass conducted later? Everything depends on the Religion. The Roman Catholic Church had/has very strict rules regarding the C/M/D [Linda, there is no RC burial without a priest! More, the RC priests will do everything in their power to give to the dying man the last Eucharist]. To a RC parish belonged several nearby villages; so, there is not obvious reason for the priest not to perform their duties. If you are talking about another religion, only the distance could be an impediment for neglecting their duties. > Godparents appear to be friends (or sometimes cousins) of the parents of a > child being baptised. Was that typical? Why weren't aunts or uncles of the > child used as godparents? Again, this depends of the ethnicity you are talking about [Hungarians, Slovaks, Germans, Serbs, Romanians, etc] and is more linked with the tradition that to religion. > If two people being married are related to the 3rd degree of consanguinity, > does that mean that they had a common great-grandparent or a common > great-great-grandparent? At what level of consanquinity was a dispensation required? > In one village that I'm researching, nearly every marrying couple is related > to the 3rd degree, but I'm not seeing any notes about dispensations. Under > what circumstances were dispensations granted? Again, this depends on the church. For example, the Roman Catholic Church in the 17th-19th centuries still did not allow marriages to the fifth degree without a formal Dispensation from Rome. These [formal!] dispensations were given, in fact, by the local Bishop [sometimes even by the local priest] and allowed men to marry very close cousins without big problems. In MISSING LINKS: RootsWeb's Genealogy Journal Vol. 5, No. 15, 12 April 2000, is an article that might be of some interest (mainly the theoretical part regarging RC Church rules): A BANYAN TREE FIND, by Rev. Jose Antonio Oquendo Pabon, priest & family genealogist. > Although I have a list of occupation names in both Hungarian and Latin, I'm > not finding interpretations for two occupations: arendator and diversitor > dnalis (with a curvy line over the N). ... arendator = tenant curvy line over the N = you will read 2 N's [so, NN] OR, as in this case, this is a sign for an abbreviation diversitor dnalis = diversitor d(omi)nails diversitor = deversitor = living as guest d(omi)nails = estate, seigniorial [adjective for seignior = a man of rank (like the estate owner), especially feudal lord] Check also our Hungarian/Latin --> English dictionaries at http://www.genealogy.ro/dictionary/ GenealogyRO Group http://www.genealogy.ro http://www.genealogy.ro/Contributions.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- .Genealogical Research & Probate Investigations Full research capabilities for Banat, Transylvania & Romania