JANET. That is how I found the information...click on the page number for the listed village. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

http://mek.oszk.hu/02700/02790/html/68.html#page244 Click on the above link and you should have the correct page. Enjoy Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

Dear Gerald, I think I discovered (by accident) that if you click on the page number in the Index it will take you to the correct text. Until I discovered this I, too, was frustrated because the text doesn't contain the original page numbers. Janet -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Kisabeth [mailto:gkisabeth241950MI@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 2:56 PM To: HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Hungarian Book online Back a few months someone (Janet, I believe) posted an online book web site for HUNGARIAN ETHNOGRAPHY AND FOLKLORE at http://mek.oszk.hu/02700/02790/html/index.html. My mother's village is listed on page 244 -Vencsello. I cannot seem to locate the page in the book online. Could someone help me out in locating page 244. Thanks, Gerald Kisabeth (Dobozi)

Back a few months someone (Janet, I believe) posted an online book web site for HUNGARIAN ETHNOGRAPHY AND FOLKLORE at http://mek.oszk.hu/02700/02790/html/index.html. My mother's village is listed on page 244 -Vencsello. I cannot seem to locate the page in the book online. Could someone help me out in locating page 244. Thanks, Gerald Kisabeth (Dobozi)

Thank you for the responses. Joe, Thank you for the archive address. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph J Jarfas" <jjarfas@ezaccess.net> To: "marlo" <marlo50@nwonline.net> Cc: <HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [HUNGARY-L] mail > marlo wrote: > >>I am just checking if I am still subscribed. It came to me this >>morning I have not had any mail for several days. >>Also, what is the address for Hungary-L archives? The one I >>have listed doesn't work. >>Please help. >>Margaret >> > Still here Margaret, > > everybody else must be out there shopping! :-) > > On the following web site just type in Hungary to take you to the > archive: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index > > Joe > Equinunk, PA - USA > jjarfas@ezaccess.net > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by ezaccess.net] > >

marlo wrote: >I am just checking if I am still subscribed. It came to me this >morning I have not had any mail for several days. >Also, what is the address for Hungary-L archives? The one I >have listed doesn't work. >Please help. >Margaret > Still here Margaret, everybody else must be out there shopping! :-) On the following web site just type in Hungary to take you to the archive: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by ezaccess.net]

I am just checking if I am still subscribed. It came to me this morning I have not had any mail for several days. Also, what is the address for Hungary-L archives? The one I have listed doesn't work. Please help. Margaret

LDS microfilm let me trace my family in hungary back to 1829. in the village(karasz) there was a reform church and a greek catholic church as well as the roman catholic church.would it be more likely that before 1829 that there was no rc church and people register their children in any church or would they travel 30 miles to the nearest rc church? don kiraly king555@sympatico.ca

> #1 Is there a chart ["Elizabeth V Cardinal" < > evc1369@co] LDS site has several language guides. for hungarian try: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&Gid=&Lid=&Sid=&Did=&Juris1=&Event=&Year=&Gloss=&Sub=&Tab=&Entry=&Guide=WLHungarian.ASP

Sorry Elizabeth - this e-mail reached me in error. Don't know how this happened, but I have left a few queries of my own on Hungary-related websites. My grandmother and grandfather are from Oroslany and Vienna, respectively. It's been very frustrating finding any information at all about my Hungarian roots. I'm beginning to think they were all annihilated during WWII. Good luck with your efforts. Lynn p.s. If I find any such chart, will let you know. >From: "Elizabeth V Cardinal" <evc1369@comcast.net> >To: HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Is there a chart >Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:11:42 -0500 > >Is there a chart to help those of us trying to interpret Hungarian >Handwriting from the 19th century? > >Is there a chart which transcribes into English the words on a Baptismal >register.....not a baptismal certificate but the headings on the micro >filmed copies of records? > >Thank You > >Elizabeth V. Cardinal >evc1369@comcast.net > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Elizabeth wrote: Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Is there a chart Is there a chart to help those of us trying to interpret Hungarian Handwriting from the 19th century? Is there a chart which transcribes into English the words on a Baptismal register.....not a baptismal certificate but the headings on the micro filmed copies of records? Thank You Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net Elizabeth, try this website this should help you. http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/index.html Hope this helps, Happy Thanksgiving to all on this wonderful list. Laszlo (Les) Josa

Is there a chart to help those of us trying to interpret Hungarian Handwriting from the 19th century? Is there a chart which transcribes into English the words on a Baptismal register.....not a baptismal certificate but the headings on the micro filmed copies of records? Thank You Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

I thought you might find this article interesting as it may present a real challenge for future family historians. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/national/20siblings.html?th&emc=th Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

Elizabeth, Most Hungarian church records of births in the 1800s have a column after the male/female column that states Legitimate/torvenyes or illegitimate/torvenytelen, before the parents names. Sue Schumpf

Janet, You make many good points. I seriously doubt and have never heard of any religious tradition having rules stipulating who could be god parents other than they must be of the same tradition. In the Roman Catholic Church it meant they must have been baptized and as god parents were usually baptized in the same church and had lived in the same village all their lives the priest knew who was and who wasn't. Most Catholics had two primary god parents. The rule that currently applies is that only one god parent need to be a Catholic. If there is a second or more they must be Christians of any tradition. The obligations of a god parent other than those required by the church have also changed. Years ago, it was understood that if something happened to the parents the god parents would raise the child. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about godparents that would apply to all communities. We sometimes see godparents who are a different religion than the child's parents, which would not make sense if godparenthood were strictly a religious issue. But this may have been acceptable in some areas, or some churches, and not in others. I believe in some communities godparents were chosen from among relatives, though this does not seem to be the most widespread practice. One also sees in the records places where there are names of many witnesses to a baptism. Do all of these people function as godparents? That doesn't seem very likely. Godparents, and especially godmothers, had very specific social duties to perform. When there is a list of witnesses rather than simply a married couple, they often seem to consist of especially highly respected persons and/or relatives. I have seen nobles listed as witnesses to the baptisms of non-nobles, and villages where the same persons appear many times. I have also noted instances where witnesses have traveled long distances to attend the ceremony. Finally, my best recollection is that in the case of illegitimate children, the witness or witnesses seem to be mostly women. The best you can do is look at what seems to be the typical practice in a given village. Janet -----Original Message----- From: rwhun.ee.4el41n3@0sg.net [mailto:rwhun.ee.4el41n3@0sg.net] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:49 AM To: HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Re: HUNGARY-D Digest V05 #287 account) Not sure about the Roman Catholic church, but I believe in the Greek Catholic church, the religion of the godparent that is the same sex as the child being baptized must also be Greek Catholic, and the religion of the godparent of the opposite sex is not so important. Maybe only the important godparent was listed or transcribed? - Elaine > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [HUNGARY-L] Question on use of Hungarian maiden names > From: > EEH2198@aol.com > Date: > Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:58:35 EST > To: > HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com > > > > I have a document that my mother got as a record of her baptism and > confirmation > in the R Catholic church in the early 1900's. It is a handwritten as though > it was hand written probably from an original book. Of course it is all in > Hungarian which > I cannot read but I did have someone translate if for me. There is no mention > of > a godfather. The name given shows the godmother as widow Mrs. Janos Kovacs > maiden name Erzsebet Tabai. Is there any reason there would have been no > godfather named? > > Evelyn

Not sure about the Roman Catholic church, but I believe in the Greek Catholic church, the religion of the godparent that is the same sex as the child being baptized must also be Greek Catholic, and the religion of the godparent of the opposite sex is not so important. Maybe only the important godparent was listed or transcribed? - Elaine > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [HUNGARY-L] Question on use of Hungarian maiden names > From: > EEH2198@aol.com > Date: > Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:58:35 EST > To: > HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com > > > > I have a document that my mother got as a record of her baptism and > confirmation > in the R Catholic church in the early 1900's. It is a handwritten as though > it was hand written probably from an original book. Of course it is all in > Hungarian which > I cannot read but I did have someone translate if for me. There is no mention > of > a godfather. The name given shows the godmother as widow Mrs. Janos Kovacs > maiden name Erzsebet Tabai. Is there any reason there would have been no > godfather named? > > Evelyn

Janet, I do have a copy of "Proper Peasants" but I needed answers quicker than I could skim through the book. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

We found one instance in the baptismal records of the catholic church in Petend where no father was listed for the child. Can we take this to mean the child was born out of wedlock? The mothers name is there as are the names of the god parents. Thanks Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net

It sounds to me that in this area, as in many, godparents were a married couple. Obviously, being widowed, Mrs. Janos Kovacs no longer had a husband to act as godfather. I have also seen this in the records. On another note, the fact that this was a Roman Catholic church was probably immaterial. Most of these customs were more cultural than religious and could be found in both Protestant and Catholic churches. Janet _____ From: EEH2198@aol.com [mailto:EEH2198@aol.com] Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 1:59 PM To: kozlay@comcast.net; HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HUNGARY-L] Question on use of Hungarian maiden names I have a document that my mother got as a record of her baptism and confirmation in the R Catholic church in the early 1900's. It is a handwritten as though it was hand written probably from an original book. Of course it is all in Hungarian which I cannot read but I did have someone translate if for me. There is no mention of a godfather. The name given shows the godmother as widow Mrs. Janos Kovacs maiden name Erzsebet Tabai. Is there any reason there would have been no godfather named? Evelyn