The three dates preceding the date of the marriage, usually one week apart, are commonly known as the banns. You will see this frequently in marriage records, Protestant as well as Catholic. Today's wedding ceremonies might have a statement to the effect of "If anyone knows of any reason why these two should not be married, let him say so now or forever hold his peace." This pretty much is a substitution for the old-fashioned banns. Janet

Sheila Chonko wrote: > Got super lucky after over 5 years of researching & found some > information on my husband's Oláh line in Tiszadob, Hungary. I'm a tad > rusty at doing the rough translations but for the most part have > gotten most of the information from the records. Would greatly > appreciate a bit of translation help on the following: > > 1. hazszamaval -- for cause of death > > 2. Elsörülott -- written under the child's name on a birth record > > 3. Found in marriage record as heading of one of the colums & each > couple has 3 dates listed... all about a week apart: > Kihirdette-tek-ey vagy felmentveayes-tettek hirdétesõl vagy valami > akadaletol? (I copied the hyphens to be on the safe side) > > 4. Also have a notation in the Comments column of a birth record. Its > rather lengthy & mentions a date so if possible I'd like to see if > someone could translate it. The writing is horrid so I tried to zoom > in & make a copy that way. Its not the clearest copy but wondered if > someone could give me even a rough translation... such as verify its a > death notation. as I can decipher the date. > > Can't thank everyone enough as this help is invaluable. > > Sheila Hi Sheila, 1. - Házszámával = with house number? has nothing to do with cause of death. 2. - Elsőszülött = first born; nice to know! :-) 3. - Text too complicated to reproduce here; suffice it say it either states the 3x announcement was done or they received permission not to have it announced. (The three previous Sunday announcement was required [prior to marriage] in case somebody has objections to the marriage. Roman Catholic church law.) 4. - You can send me the scan, let's see if I can figure it out. Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Got super lucky after over 5 years of researching & found some information on my husband's Oláh line in Tiszadob, Hungary. I'm a tad rusty at doing the rough translations but for the most part have gotten most of the information from the records. Would greatly appreciate a bit of translation help on the following: 1. hazszamaval -- for cause of death 2. Elsörülott -- written under the child's name on a birth record 3. Found in marriage record as heading of one of the colums & each couple has 3 dates listed... all about a week apart: Kihirdette-tek-ey vagy felmentveayes-tettek hirdétesõl vagy valami akadaletol? (I copied the hyphens to be on the safe side) 4. Also have a notation in the Comments column of a birth record. Its rather lengthy & mentions a date so if possible I'd like to see if someone could translate it. The writing is horrid so I tried to zoom in & make a copy that way. Its not the clearest copy but wondered if someone could give me even a rough translation... such as verify its a death notation. as I can decipher the date. Can't thank everyone enough as this help is invaluable. Sheila

Good idea that you posted this info.......so that we don't all do the same lookups. cheryl BALOG wenberg ----- Original Message ----- From: SchumpfS@aol.com To: HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Oscar Sperling Joe, in case no one else has replied to your request: Jan 8, 1920 census 159 E. Broad St, S. Allentown, Lehigh Co, PA is John F. Walz 44, married at 17, from Germany, a stationery engineer at Dye Work, with wife Laura 42, Robert 22, Esther 20, Gertrude 18 and brother-in-law, OSCAR SPERLING, 52, single b. PA, parents b. Germany, was laborer on railroad. At 62 Williamson Rd, Tioga, PA, Blossbury borough, with James Mitchell 26, b. PA, parents Scotland, Germany, wife Ruth 23, b. PA, NY, PA, and dau. Pearl 6, was boarder OSCAR SPERLING 36, divorced, b. PA as were parents. Also there were a Walter & Emma Sperling in Allentown and many Sperlings in Salisburg, Lehigh, PA In Ward 4, Clifton, Passaic Co, NJ, #17 Yereance Ave, (E.N.Dist 136, Sht 3B) was Oscar SPERLING 57, immigrated 1900 citizen 1906, b. Germany, Foreman at Woolen Mills, wife Ulma 47, immigrated 1900, citizen 1906, b. Germany, dau. Martha 27 b. NJ, Alfred 26, b. NJ, Harry 19, b. Germany. This street is near Botany Mills. In 1930 census #265 Highland Ave, Passaic, Passaic Co, NJ was Oscar W. SPERLING, married at age 17 (1913), b in Germany, immigrated 1891, wife Cornelia 39, Germany, dau. Helen 21, b. NJ, son Arthur, 18 b. NJ. Oscar was master mechanic at cotton mill. Note: Highland Ave in Passaic is one or two blocks from Yereance Ave in Clifton. An Oscar H. SPERLING 36, b. NJ, parents b. Germany, and wife Katie 44, b. PA, lived in Camden, NJ, Hope this helps. Sue

Joe, in case no one else has replied to your request: Jan 8, 1920 census 159 E. Broad St, S. Allentown, Lehigh Co, PA is John F. Walz 44, married at 17, from Germany, a stationery engineer at Dye Work, with wife Laura 42, Robert 22, Esther 20, Gertrude 18 and brother-in-law, OSCAR SPERLING, 52, single b. PA, parents b. Germany, was laborer on railroad. At 62 Williamson Rd, Tioga, PA, Blossbury borough, with James Mitchell 26, b. PA, parents Scotland, Germany, wife Ruth 23, b. PA, NY, PA, and dau. Pearl 6, was boarder OSCAR SPERLING 36, divorced, b. PA as were parents. Also there were a Walter & Emma Sperling in Allentown and many Sperlings in Salisburg, Lehigh, PA In Ward 4, Clifton, Passaic Co, NJ, #17 Yereance Ave, (E.N.Dist 136, Sht 3B) was Oscar SPERLING 57, immigrated 1900 citizen 1906, b. Germany, Foreman at Woolen Mills, wife Ulma 47, immigrated 1900, citizen 1906, b. Germany, dau. Martha 27 b. NJ, Alfred 26, b. NJ, Harry 19, b. Germany. This street is near Botany Mills. In 1930 census #265 Highland Ave, Passaic, Passaic Co, NJ was Oscar W. SPERLING, married at age 17 (1913), b in Germany, immigrated 1891, wife Cornelia 39, Germany, dau. Helen 21, b. NJ, son Arthur, 18 b. NJ. Oscar was master mechanic at cotton mill. Note: Highland Ave in Passaic is one or two blocks from Yereance Ave in Clifton. An Oscar H. SPERLING 36, b. NJ, parents b. Germany, and wife Katie 44, b. PA, lived in Camden, NJ, Hope this helps. Sue

Thank you all, who were so kind and sent me relevant data from the 1920-30 Census on 'my' Oscar. Sorry to say I do not have detailed enough information to fully answer all your questions. I'm waiting for the response of the Hungarian researcher to whom I forwarded most of your questions. It sure looks like the PA Oscars are not 'our' men, because our Oscar was born - supposedly - in Kézdivásárhely in Transylvania (which was part of Romania in 1920-30), as were his parents - though I don't know about his mother - yet. Our best guestimate puts his birth around 1880, and he might not have arrived in this country until after the 1930 Census, yet Eileen found some more in NY, CO and NJ in 1930. Could we get some particulars about those? The SSDI gives me four, but none of them fit the assumed dates of our Oscar. The only other 'hearsay' information I have on him is that he supposed to have been a dentist. Thanks a bunch, Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Thank you all, who were so kind and sent me relevant data from the 1920-30 Census on 'my' Oscar. Sorry to say I do not have detailed enough information to fully answer all your questions. I'm waiting for the response of the Hungarian researcher to whom I forwarded most of your questions. It sure looks like the PA Oscars is not 'our' men, because our Oscar was born - supposedly - in Kézdivásárhely in Transylvania (which was part of Romania in 1920-30), as were his parents - though I don't know about his mother - yet. Our best guestimate puts his birth around 1880, and he might not have arrived in this country until after the 1930 Census, yet Eileen found some more in NY, CO and NJ in 1930. Could we get some particulars about those? The SSDI gives me four, but none of them fit the assumed dates of our Oscar. The only other 'hearsay' information I have on him is that he supposed to have been a dentist. Thanks a bunch, Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Friends, thanks to all who responded with insight on the name Mato for my friend. I brought him up to date with our 1930 census & his grandfather's ship passenger info. It also showed his great grandfather's name, Janos Mato from Puspocki, From what you stated I will tell my friend that the place of birth for his Mato grandfather, great uncle & niece was the town of Ivando, i.e. Ivánd, now in Romania with the microfilms N/A from our FHL in Salt Lake City. Thanks a million, again. Gerald (Dobozy) Kisabeth

Welcome to the Hungary List site Linda. Hope we can be of help to you. Marika

Hi all, I just became aware of this list and one called Ethnic Slovac and signed up for both of them. I am on the RAOGK list and also the A-H list but I am doing this blindly. I am pretty sure I will need help in the future but in the meantime I am going to sit back and save any hints that come across my monitor when it comes to doing some research. I'm doing a bit on my Mom's side but that seems fairly simple 'cause it's a lot more recent and in Montana. Plus I'm working PT but still have a ton of other things that need doing. NOt to mention company coming for a few days next week. After all settles down I might need to ask a few questions, but for now, just want to thank all who make doing genealogy a lot easier then it used to be. Linda in Fl.

Hi all, need a little help again! :-) Would somebody check the 1920-30 censuses for the subject person in Lehigh and Tioga, PA., please? I'm helping a Hungarian researcher whose data indicate this Oscar came to the US from Brazil. Looking for descendants, but with so many Sperling's in PA today I can't possibly call them all! ;-) Thanks for all the help ... Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Gerald Kisabeth wrote: >Friends, >need some help, please,,if you can. Last week I did a few online lookups for a Hungarian friend who knows very little of his ancestors. >I found his grandfather Mato Andras (Andrew) on the Michigan 1930 Census & immigration list. It shows: > >Andras Mato >Arrival: March 13, 1921 >Age: 30 >Ship: France >Port of Departure: Le Havre >Married > >If anyone has access to any old Hungarian Gazetteers I could use some help. On the 1921 ship manifest is shows 2 different places of residence in Hungary. One shows Puspocki while under the same entry for Andras Mato it shows Ivando, Romania. One reader said that this could be Ivand in pre-WW1 Torontal varamegye, Pardanyi jaras & is today in Timis County, Romania. >I looked up Puspocki & shows several villages/locations under Puspocki. >Is there any listings that show both Puspocki & Ivand(o) or Ivanda in close proximity? >Any help would be GREAT!!! >Thanks, >Gerald (Dobozi) Kisabeth > Hi Gerald, looks like you are a bit off the mark with them 'residences'! :-) Puspocki is indeed indicated as the last residence for the family since they indicated their father lived there in 1921. But Ivando, i.e. Ivánd, was their place of birth, and that's what's important to trace the family - if you can get hold of the church books. LDS does not have them. None of the Püspöki's is really near by, but Biharpüspöki is near Nagyvárad (Oradea [if not part of it lately], county Bihar, district Központ); in reality they had to reside in Biharpüspöki, since the manifest states their residence was in Romania, and that's the only Püspöki which was/is in Romania. Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Hi all, Hungarian (local) news in the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/16njhungarian.html Gerald, I'm still working on your query! :-) Joe Equinunk, PA - USA jjarfas@ezaccess.net

Friends, need some help, please,,if you can. Last week I did a few online lookups for a Hungarian friend who knows very little of his ancestors. I found his grandfather Mato Andras (Andrew) on the Michigan 1930 Census & immigration list. It shows: Andras Mato Arrival: March 13, 1921 Age: 30 Ship: France Port of Departure: Le Havre Married If anyone has access to any old Hungarian Gazetteers I could use some help. On the 1921 ship manifest is shows 2 different places of residence in Hungary. One shows Puspocki while under the same entry for Andras Mato it shows Ivando, Romania. One reader said that this could be Ivand in pre-WW1 Torontal varamegye, Pardanyi jaras & is today in Timis County, Romania. I looked up Puspocki & shows several villages/locations under Puspocki. Is there any listings that show both Puspocki & Ivand(o) or Ivanda in close proximity? Any help would be GREAT!!! Thanks, Gerald (Dobozi) Kisabeth

hello to all that attempted to get free ebooks....I thought there were SOME of the books available on their special deal, but when I got to the Hungarian section I couldn't read the Magyar, so gave up trying to get a book..now it appears there are several problems...sorry to have led some astray....will research it again and report if a positive result. Jim

Hello Jim and others, Something is fishy with this site, at least with their Hungarian titles. Each of the titles on http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm are copies of documents from the Hungarian Electronic Library (HEL), an effort of the Hungarian National Szechenyi Library: http://www.mek.oszk.hu/indexeng.phtml . These titles are available for free, without registration at HEL. Worldlibrary.net did not even care to give new call numbers to these documents, they simply used the directory and file name structure of HEL. I've just asked for clarification at HEL. Happy researching, Janos Bogardi / Radix. VagyokJiM@aol.com wrote: > I stumbled across a valuable website (for those that can read Magyar). > From > now until August 4 you can download a number of ebooks....while searching > I > found a number of Hungarian ebooks. I will try to point out the > sequence: > > First go to: _http://worldebookfair.com/_ (http://worldebookfair.com/) > > If you indicate you are interested in searching categories you can go to: > _http://worldlibrary.net_ (http://worldlibrary.net) > > Scan down to: Hungarian Literature which should take you to: > _http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm_ > (http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm) > > Apparently you can read them there or download the entire book to read > later...Hope someone can take advantage of this offer....... if you > wait to long > you may join(& pay) > > Jim Lakatos > > ______________________________

I am slightly confused. It says free use until 4 August but everywhere I went in this site they asked me to sign in and showed the cost. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <VagyokJiM@aol.com> To: <HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: [HUNGARY-L] FYI - FREE ebook downloads >I stumbled across a valuable website (for those that can read Magyar). >From > now until August 4 you can download a number of ebooks....while searching > I > found a number of Hungarian ebooks. I will try to point out the > sequence: > > First go to: _http://worldebookfair.com/_ (http://worldebookfair.com/) > > If you indicate you are interested in searching categories you can go to: > _http://worldlibrary.net_ (http://worldlibrary.net) > > Scan down to: Hungarian Literature which should take you to: > _http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm_ > (http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm) > > Apparently you can read them there or download the entire book to read > later...Hope someone can take advantage of this offer....... if you > wait to long > you may join(& pay) > > Jim Lakatos > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 > >

There were at least 12 places in the pre-WWI Hungary having the name "X + PÜSPÖKI". MATO's place of birth is listed as "IVANDO, Romania" on the second page of the ship manifest. This must be IVÁND in pre-WWI Torontál varmegye, Párdányi jaras. This is today IVANDA in Timis County, Romania. S o r i n ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Kisabeth" <gkisabeth241950MI@comcast.net> To: <HUNGARY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Place name > Hello agian dear readers. My friend's grandfather immigrated to America in 1921. I found him on the Ellis Island list: > Mato Andras born 1890 immigrated with his brother Gyorgy and sister Ilona. The village they left was spelled: Puspocki > It lists the family as speakin Magyar but shows Romanian as their race. I am not clear as I cannot find this village in any of the maps. Was the spelling wrong? Does anyone have access to the Radix index showing Mato and/or Puspocki? > > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks, > Gerald (Dobozy) Kisabeth

I stumbled across a valuable website (for those that can read Magyar). From now until August 4 you can download a number of ebooks....while searching I found a number of Hungarian ebooks. I will try to point out the sequence: First go to: _http://worldebookfair.com/_ (http://worldebookfair.com/) If you indicate you are interested in searching categories you can go to: _http://worldlibrary.net_ (http://worldlibrary.net) Scan down to: Hungarian Literature which should take you to: _http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm_ (http://worldlibrary.net/Hungarian_Literature.htm) Apparently you can read them there or download the entire book to read later...Hope someone can take advantage of this offer....... if you wait to long you may join(& pay) Jim Lakatos

Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Place name Gerald wrote: Helloagian dear readers. My friend's grandfather immigrated to America in 1921. I found him on the Ellis Island list: Mato Andras born 1890 immigrated with his brother Gyorgy and sister Ilona. The village they left was spelled: Puspocki It lists the family as speakin Magyar but shows Romanian as their race. I am not clear as I cannot find this village in any of the maps. Was the spelling wrong? Does anyone have access to the Radix index showing Mato and/or Puspocki? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Gerald (Dobozy) Kisabeth Gerald go to the LDS website http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp and click on place search and type in puspok (which by the way means Bishop) and you will come up with quite a few results. Hope this helps, Laszlo (Les) Josa