Dear Herman I can only give you general impressions of the Dauphine and then try to relate them to journies that would have been undertaken in the 16th and 17th centuries. The Dauphine commences at Grenoble, its original capital. The region is mountainous with peaks between 2 and 3000 metres, some are higher. It extends eastwards to the French Alps that border Switzerland and Italy. It always surprises me that Turin in the Piedmont region of Italy is relatively close to Grenoble, only about 100 miles in a straight line. Indeed people from Lyons and Grenoble travel on day excursions by coach to shop in Turin. Of course this is made easy by the modern tunnels. To have made this journey in earlier times would have meant following the main river valleys, probably the Isere and the Arc and then crossing the Col du Mont-Cenis at an altitude of 2083 metres, a journey twice as long. I doubt if routes were any more than tracks even along the rivers. Modern roads along the same route are winding and have frequent barriers to prevent the fall of rock on to the road. There are concrete snow and ice shelters to allow avalanches to pass over. One can imagine tracks that were rock strewn in the summer and impassible in winter because of snow or melt water. I received the following commentary from Ken Baldry who is personally familiar with the crossing from the Vaud to Piedmont. "The only way from Vaud to Piedmont would be over the Great St Bernard Pass(2470metres), which would have been impassible in Winter for ordinary refugees but ok in Summer, as it was a well-maintained pack-horse track (now a road - I thumbed a lift over it in 1999). Summer, however, means July to September, as this was the period of the Little Ice Age. " This is the journey that would have been made by the Vaudois prior to 1536. The Vaud, as you may know, is a small region on the NE shore of Lake Geneva, so their route across similar terrain would have been to the southeast. Nowadays there are routes into the mountains to well known ski resorts. The rivers are fast flowing and inundated with fallen rock, some appeal to white water canoists. I believe that tracks would have petered out and are unlikely to have offered ways from one country to another. The route that your ancestors followed from the Luberon in Provence would have been over similar terrain, they were obviously travelling northwards to Switzerland. The mountains and the terrain south of Grenoble are much less rugged but they would have encountered just the same difficulties further north. People were travelling with children and the remnants of their possessions so timing would have been crucial. I hope that at least some of this is useful. It is very beautiful country which belies the difficulties that fleeing peoples would have experienced at the time. Regards Garth - Surrey At 05:07 AM 9/24/03 -0600, you wrote: >HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-D Digest Volume 03 >: Issue 161 > >Today's Topics: > #1 RE: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudoi ["Herman" > <[email protected]] > #2 RE: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudoi ["Herman" > <[email protected]] > >Administrivia: > *** Please scroll down for important information. *** > >The list administrator can be contacted at >[email protected] > >List website: http://www.island.net/~andreav/index.html > >When replying to a post on the list, please change the subject line, if >appropriate. In particular, avoid subject lines such as: >Huguenots-Walloons-Europe-D Digest V00 #000. > >To unsubscribe from this list, send your request to: >[email protected] >Put only the word unsubscribe in your message and in the subject line. >Shortly after you have done this, you will get a message from Rootsweb, >confirming that you have been unsubscribed. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >______________________________X-Message: #1 >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:28:05 +0200 >From: "Herman" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Subject: RE: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hello Garth, > >I'm also looking for similar information on escape journeys, so I'll share >with you that which I have, and hope that someone else might feel motivated >to try and fill in some details. Perhaps my own family's story might give >you some slight insight on how unpleasant the leaving of one's birth country >would have been. > >I'm basing most of what follows on an article called "Mesnard (Minnaar) >Family Focus" which appeared in the Huguenot Bulletin no 38, published by >the Huguenot Society of South Africa. The author was not indicated, but I >have reason to believe that it was written by Biebie van der Merwe. The >information contained in this article, to the best of my knowledge, would >have been based on Boucher's "French Speakers at the Cape"-don't quote me on >that. I may not have the title correct. > >About circumstances regarding my own family, the Mesnards, this is what I >can tell you: > >My ancestor, Jean Mesnard departed along with his brother-in-law, Louis >Corbon (aka "Courbonne"), who was 20 years old at the time. According to the >article the Courbonnes were descendants of Waldenses who had settled along >the slopes of the Luberon Mountains of Provance. These Waldensian families >had settled there 200 years earlier and had originally come form Dauphine >and Piedmond. With Louis Courbonne, there was also his cousin, Pierre (la or >le) Grange, who was 3 years his senior, and who came from Cabriere d'Aigues. > >Jean's family consisted of six little kids between the ages of ten, and less >than one year old. Jeans family were original Waldenses who came from the >Aigues valley in the foothills of the Luberon mountains, where they are said >to have settled between 1470 and 1520. > >That tells you about the people. Concerning the journey, the article has >more or less the following to report: From the Luberon they would have >travelled along the mountain road between Saint Martin and Manosque, and >from there along the Durace River, passing Sisteron (border of Provance and >Dauphine), past Lac de Serre-Poncon, past the Italian Alps, and then into >Switzerland. > >According to my understanding, many had to cross the Alps in mid-winter. The >banished refugees were travelling in various different groups over several >months. Many people most likely died during the journey as it became colder. >My family must have been fortunate in having been able to cross before the >real cold, but I would presume that temperatures may already have been >unpleasant enough regardless. When my little group arrived in Lousanne on 15 >September 1687, they would have been extremely exhausted and probably >famished too. How would they have transported the little ones? One might >suppose that they wouldn't easily have had the luxury of donkeys or horses >or some kind of cart. Also, how did they carry food? I would presume that >they may not have received much help from whatever Catholic regions why >would have travelled through. That would surely have been the most critical >stage of the journey. Once in Switzerland and Germany, it looks like the >refugees were usually warmly received by fellow Waldensians or Huguenots. >These good Samaritans often did not have the means to take care of the >steady stream of refugees, but at least they offered shelter and sympathy >and shared what little they had anyway. No doubt, this must have saved the >lives of many. Perhaps I am only here today because some nameless soul had >given the Mesnard family half a loaf of black peasant's bread somewhere >along the journey. One would never know. > > From Lousanne the Mesnards and Courbonnes and probably some of their in-laws >and friends, went to Zurich, where the article notes that Louise Corbonne >had been "'distressed by the fatigue of the journey'" (Vigne, 1998:35)." >They probably obtained some kind of boat passage down the Rhine river until >they received Frankfurt by October. There they seem to have been assisted by >yet more kind souls with generous hearts. From Frankfurt, the journey >continued by boat on the Main. From Mainz they made their way via the Rhine >to Rotterdam. They arrived before 23 December 1687, while, according to my >understanding, many other refugees were dying behind them as they were >forced to cross the Alps in winter. > >In some ways the most interesting part of the journey must have been >crossing the mountains. Perhaps those who have more insight into what the >countryside looks like would be able to enlighten us on what it must have >been like. > >At Rotterdam the tired band of fugitives obtained passage on the China and >finally sailed for a new beginning in South Africa. The rest is history. >This is but a brief sketch from a faded page, torn from the ancient book of >the past. It may not be much, but perhaps it can help us understand just a >little better, or at least, to draw some interesting possible conclusions. > >Regards, >Herman Labuschagne >Johannesburg, South Africa > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Garth Swanson [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: 22 September 2003 07:41 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont > >I wonder if anyone is familiar with the movement of Huguenots/Calvinists >from Vaud(now part of Switzerland) to Piedmont in Italy and thence to >England. > >Any written sources of information would be very much appreciated. > >Garth - Surrey > >______________________________X-Message: #2 >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:35:01 +0200 >From: "Herman" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Subject: RE: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by engine.ieee.org id >h8OB5m0Y020306 > >Thanks for the very interesting links you shared, Peter. > >I was very glad to see that part about the slave galleys. According to >ancient family legend, my original Labuschagne ancestor had a brother or an >uncle by the name of Samson (de) la Buscaigne, who wasn't blessed with an >abundance of good fortune. > >While the rest of the family escaped France intact, Samson was caught and >sentenced to row in the slave galleys. I have searched for his name many a >time, but he seems to have been swallowed up by history, leaving only the >shadow of a name and a vague legend. You don't suppose there might have been >some kind of records kept concerning names of galley slaves? Probably too >much to expect, but you never know. One can only begin to imagine the horror >of having been chained at the oars for thirty or forty years. > >That article filled in a piece of knowledge for which I've kept a space open >for a long time. Thanks again. > >Regards, >Herman Labuschagne >Johannesburg, South Africa > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: 22 September 2003 09:22 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont > >Hello All and Many, > >Garth has posed an interesting thread. The Calvinists >of Suisse (Switzerland). I would have considered the >followers of Zwingli to be more prominent in that >country ? However let us see what smidgeoans of >information can be dug up. > >Luberon community also called Vaudois.. well that is a >beginning I suppose. > >This webpage gives us some information >http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0530.htm > >Hmm now this might be of some assistance. A knowledge >of the French language may be required >http://www.routevaudoisluberon.com > >And of course there is this URL >http://www.rootsweb.com/~chevaud/ > >Perhaps all of the above is already known but then >again, maybe something may be useful. > >Better still, by the rule of cause and effect, I am >sure that others will join in with other snippets. > >Kind Regards, >Peter Leroy > > >==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== >When posting to the HWE list: >SURNAMES written in capitals, s'il vous plaît. >Also, please specify dates and location, including country. > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go >to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 Garth Swanson PLEASE ENTER THE FOLLOWING INTO YOUR ADDRESS BOOK: [email protected] WWW: http://www.eee.kcl.ac.uk/member/staff/j_swanson.html