--- Marcia Bignall <mbignall@mac.com> wrote: > Hi Tony & all, > > I remember reading somewhere that beginning in > 1662(?) French > Protestants were denied the right to hold government positions. Can > someone point me to something concrete regarding that law? > We have to be clear about what we mean by "government positions". During the period of the Wars of Religion, the French state (the machinery of government) was being formed, at first haphazardly and mostly for the purposes of tax collection and other finance-related needs (wars and royal lifestyles costing a great deal of money) and then later (and particularly under Mazarin and Richelieu) systematically, for bureaucratic and intelligence-gathering purposes. At that same time, the new "state" machinery was clashing with older bureaucratic forms -- those of individual principalities, of self-governing cities, of the church, and of the law, all of which operated semi-autonomously from, and often at odds with, the national "state". I will get you the specific cites in a bit (have to go cite-diving) that I think get at what you are asking, which is I take it "were Protestants prevented by royal decree and/or treaty from holding 'national' government posts and if so during what periods?" This would NOT mean that Protestants were not in positions of state power in parts of modern-day France during the period under discussion. They most assuredly were, and in some areas dominated the 'government' of a particular city or region, in power if not in number. All history is local and specific in this period, so know WHERE you are researching.... As others have been saying with respect to class and profession, indirectly -- let's not export our 'modern' notions of government back to the 17th century. The modern nation-state system did not exist in any real form (in terms of international law) prior to the peace of Westphalia (1648), and the modern notion of the internal state (strong, unitary central government with a bureaucratic hierarchy reaching into the hinterlands) was itself a product of the turmoil of the 1600s and 1700s, could not be said to be the norm prior (IMHO) to the Congress of Vienna, and was still being contested (according to some historians) as late as the revolutions of 1848.

Not sure. Certainly the Edict of Fontainbleu (1685) drove most of our Huguenot ancestors out by closing Protestant churches and schools. Remember that all the Treaty of Westphalia did was decree national sovereignty, it did not prescribe any panaceas for the trouble which France brought on herself by excluding and discriminating against the religious minority. I look forward to your links/citations on whether Protestants were allowed to hold positions in government. --- Marc Demarest <marc@noumenal.com> wrote: > > --- Marcia Bignall <mbignall@mac.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tony & all, > > > > I remember reading somewhere that beginning in > > 1662(?) French > > Protestants were denied the right to hold > government positions. Can > > someone point me to something concrete regarding > that law? > > > > We have to be clear about what we mean by > "government positions". During the > period of the Wars of Religion, the French state > (the machinery of > government) was being formed, at first haphazardly > and mostly for the > purposes of tax collection and other finance-related > needs (wars and royal > lifestyles costing a great deal of money) and then > later (and particularly > under Mazarin and Richelieu) systematically, for > bureaucratic and > intelligence-gathering purposes. > > At that same time, the new "state" machinery was > clashing with older > bureaucratic forms -- those of individual > principalities, of self-governing > cities, of the church, and of the law, all of which > operated > semi-autonomously from, and often at odds with, the > national "state". > > I will get you the specific cites in a bit (have to > go cite-diving) that I > think get at what you are asking, which is I take it > "were Protestants > prevented by royal decree and/or treaty from holding > 'national' government > posts and if so during what periods?" > > This would NOT mean that Protestants were not in > positions of state power in > parts of modern-day France during the period under > discussion. They most > assuredly were, and in some areas dominated the > 'government' of a particular > city or region, in power if not in number. All > history is local and specific > in this period, so know WHERE you are > researching.... > > As others have been saying with respect to class and > profession, indirectly > -- let's not export our 'modern' notions of > government back to the 17th > century. The modern nation-state system did not > exist in any real form (in > terms of international law) prior to the peace of > Westphalia (1648), and the > modern notion of the internal state (strong, unitary > central government with > a bureaucratic hierarchy reaching into the > hinterlands) was itself a product > of the turmoil of the 1600s and 1700s, could not be > said to be the norm > prior (IMHO) to the Congress of Vienna, and was > still being contested > (according to some historians) as late as the > revolutions of 1848. > > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > Messages posted to this (or any)list are the > property of their writers. > Therefore, if you want to forward or use info seen > on a mailing list, > first obtain the permission of the person who wrote > it. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death > Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry