Well, listers, when I threw in that casual remark about Norman French in my post a couple of days ago, I didn't realize what a flurry it would cause. So much of a flurry, in fact, that we are straying far off the subject of Huguenots/Walloons which is the focus of this list. But it's always gratifying to know that people are paying attention out there <g>. Regrettably, I will have to call a halt to this particular Norman French thread after today (10 Mar). The reason why I'm *not* cutting it off *right now* is that I have a few remarks of my own to make (admin's perogative <g>). So, if anyone has anything further to say on this subject, please do so now or not at all <g>. And to those who are tired of the thread or don't want to read anymore, my apologies and please make use of your Delete button. By mentioning Norman French in my earlier message, I was merely suggesting the idea that "French" names in England are not necessarily always of Huguenot origin and that they may have been in England long before the Huguenots arrived on those shores. Conversely, there are some thoroughly "English" names which *do* have Huguenot origins. P.H. Reaney's book "A Dictonary of British Surnames" mentions that the more widespread use of surnames began in England after the Norman Conquest. He then says: "The earliest local surnames of French origin are chiefly from Normandy, particularly from the departments of Calvados, Eure, Seine-Inférieure and La Manche." (Pg. XV in the Introduction) Also, on page 229 in another book: "History of the Surnames of the British Isles" by Cecil L'Estrange Ewen, under the heading Norman Surnames, is the following -- " Many of the great tenants holding of the Crown under William the Conqueror permanently adopted the names of their estates, English and French, as family names: DE ARUNDEL, DE BEAUCHAMP, DE BELESME, DE FERRERS, DE GAND (GHENT), LE LACY, DE MANDEVILLE, DE MONTGOMERY, DE MORTIMER, DE OILGI, DE PERCI, DE STADFORD, DE WARENNE, etc. Doubtless many other persons who had no interest in the estates, except to labour on them, were dubbed with the same names likewise when they settled in some other place. 'De', like the corresponding Dutch 'van' (and) German 'von' is popularly supposed to be a sign of aristocratic descent but in the records of the middle ages it was extremely common, and had no other function, than that of the English prepositions: 'of', 'from', or 'at'." Ewen then goes on to cite other examples such as servants being given the name of their master and some surnames originating as place names (eg. DE PARIS, DE VALERY, DE CHARTES, DE CORBEY). And, last, and at the risk of repeating what Bob has already said very nicely, here is the "condensed" version on the topic of Normans (ie. who were they?) as it appears in Collier's Enclyclopedia -- "Normans (were) Scandanavian invaders who settled Normandy from about 820, then conquered England, southern Italy and Sicily. Raids by these Northmen or Norsemen up the Seine River began before the middle of the nineth century. They gradually established themselves at the mouths of the Seine and other rivers in northern France. In 911 the Frankish king, Charles the Simple, granted Rollo and his band of Northmen the district about Rouen, to which additional territory was added a few years later. Scandanavian immigrants arrived in great numbers to colonize the land, and the area became known as Normandy. The Normans soon adopted the French language, customs and religion, and identified themselves with their new home, but retained their Scandanavian vigor and warlike proclivities. Although nominally subject to the French king, the Norman dukes remained semi-independent. In 1066, Duke William of Normandy, an illegitimate son of Robert I, the fifth duke, and descendent of Rollo, invaded England, defeated and killed King Harold at Hastings, and was crowned king. The Normans in England eventually became English, and left a permanent impress on the culture of the country. Later they made conquests in Wales and Ireland, and many settled in the Lowlands of Scotland." I'm sure that any search engine will lead you to further information on this topic. Just type in keywords such as William the Conqueror, Bayeux Tapestry, Battle of Hastings or even the date 1066. (Do those word conjure up long-past history lessons, anyone? <g>) Andrea