I've just joined the list though I think I emailed Andrea some years ago off list. I have the same Olive line in Canterbury as Andrea though we part company as far as I know when her family moved to Whitstable. The line runs: Jaques Olive and Marie Vere/ Verre married in France? - Jean born 16 Oct 1676, bap 29 Oct 1676 at Walloon Church, Canterbury and Sara Blancher/Blanchard/ m? -Jaques/James bap 22 Apr 1711 Walloon Church m. Katherine Pout 13 Aug 1738 at St George the Martyr, Canterbury - Thomas bap 19 Mar 1748/9 St Mary Bredin m Elizabeth Court 13 May 1771 at St Mary Bredin - James b about 1772 Kent? m Lucy Austin 15 May 1793 St Dunstan, Canterbury - Charles bap 14 May 1797 St Dunstan m? Jane Griffen? Glasgow, Scotland? -Lucy Mary/Maria b about 1821 Kent? Glasgow? Ireland? By way of background, Charles was a soldier in the First Battalion of the Rifle Brigade (Green Jackets) from 1816 to 1824. During this time they formed part of the army of occupation in the Cambrai area after Waterloo until the end of 1818. After spending 9 months in Gosport, they went to Glasgow in September 1819 where there were civil disturbances (the Radical War) and then on to Belfast and thereabouts in November 1820 with further moves to Armagh (March 1821, Naas (November) and Kilkenny (December), Dublin (November 1823) and back to Belfast (Sept 1824) and finally Nova Scotia (July 1825). Charles was discharged on health grounds at Belfast with phthisis, a form of TB, doubtful, as he died in 1868 from asthma. Possibly he was exhausted from moving every two minutes. Jane , his wife, had been born at Belfast between 1797 and 1801 and her family had apparently emigrated to Glasgow. Their second child, William, was christened in Rathkeale, Limerick, in 1823 and the third, George, born in Kent about 1824. The family emigrated to Port Stephens in NSW in 1827 to work for the Australian Agricultural Company. This is rather long-winded. I'm now trying to trace the Huguenot connection and am looking for advice. I gather Guines was a reformee centre and the names Olive and Blanchard occur in its registers. I have seen it suggested that the French like the Irish lost a lot of their records in various upheavals of the populace. I was wondering. The IGI early records all seem to be Catholic and in Aude, centre of the Cathars. Anyway, all help appreciated. I do want to trace the others too. I'm currently checking Canterbury churches. Sue Ellis, Australia

All these variations appear to be for the same person and are listed in various sections of the church records where I found the birth of her four children. She was born (date unknown) in Mousson, Lisle (Lille) France and died between 1678 and 1685 - possibly in Mannheim. She was married to JEAN DOURDY, who was born 1638 at Mons le Borinage, Hainaut (Belgium). They had four children from 1669 to 1678, when presumably Marie died. Jean then married Catherine DU PONT and they went to Strasburg, Ückermark, Brandenburg and Jean later married again - this time to Erdmuth BROMBART. Of the four children born to Marie and Jean I have Salomon Dourdy born 13 Feb 1669 Jehan Dourdy born 13 Apr 1671 Marie Dourdy born 30 Aug 1673 Jacques Dourdy born 19 Jun 1678 Jehan married an Agnes Habich born 1670 Heidelberg. Marie was born Leiden Holland and married Pierre Roge(r) born 1658 at Quaregnon, nr Wasmes, Belg-Hennegau. My connection is through this line as Marie and Pierre Roge's daughter Marie Magdelaine born 1702 Strasburg married 23 Jan 1727 Francois Henry CASTILLION born 27 Feb 1702 Berlin. His father's name was Marc Castillon born 1665 in Languedoc and he was married to Peronne JINIER/JUNIER/JINIEZ, who was born about 1667 in Nion, Switzerland. Would anyone be able to help me with addresses where to write to these places to see if the church records still exist in France and Nion, Switzerland. All in all I am related to quite a lot of Huguenots who came to live in the Ückermark. Sincerely Kay Gassan

I think that's one of the shortcomings of Wikipedia - anyone can submit to it and express their own prejudice. It devalues it as a reference tool. I did change the birthplace of one of my own ancestors in it - but that was a correction, so actually it improved the quality of the item!! Jeanette. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin" <moslins1@fastmail.fm> To: <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: [HWE] Wikipedia > Hi > > > I'm glad that the Huguenot descendants have come back to life! Here's > something that may further provoke you! I looked in Wikipedia under > Huguenot and found the following: > > ........ St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre...., Catholics rightfully > killed thousands of Huguenots in Paris, who had been burning stores > and provoking the police, ................................ > > I deleted, "rightfully" and considered editing the rest, but did not do > so - What do you all think about that ? > > Best wishes > > Martin Blignaut > > > > -- > Martin > moslins1@fastmail.fm > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > When posting to the Huguenots-Walloons-Europe list: > Make your subject line specific and relevent. > eg. include topic or surname(s) and/or date and/or location. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

People need to know that Wikipedia has little credibility - anyone can send in information, true or biased and it seems anyone can send information refuting what they have read. I consider it a waste of space. Shirley Subject: [HWE] Wikipedia I looked in Wikipedia under > Huguenot and found the following: > > ........ St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre...., Catholics rightfully > killed thousands of Huguenots in Paris, who had been burning stores > and provoking the police, ................................ > > I deleted, "rightfully" and considered editing the rest, but did not do > so - What do you all think about that ? > Martin Blignaut

Hi Andrea, I keep running into Middleburg as a port in the Netherlands used by the Huguenots. The language in that area of the Netherlands was a French dialect back then. I'd like to add an Irish location to your request. What about Lurgan, County Armagh, Ireland? Lurgan did not have a Huguenot church, but some Huguenot Linen weavers did settle there. Ray

Hi It's entirely possible that many Catholics of the time believed that the St Bartholemew's Day killings were justified, but I think that most Catholics of the present day would not hold that opinion. Indeed, I looked up "Huguenot" in The Catholic Encyclopedia and found the following: "... Thus occurred the odious Massacre of St. Bartholemew, ......" In addition, no mention of burning and pillaging by Huguenots in Paris and being provocative towards the police [police ?].Therefore, I think that in the promotion of even-handedness and even the more controversial concept of historical accuracy, the word "rightfully" should have been deleted. However, anybody who wants to overhaul the Huguenot section in Wikipedia in an attempt to eliminate bias has a mammoth task and I wish you good luck! Best wishes Martin Blignaut -- Martin moslins1@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…

Hi I'm glad that the Huguenot descendants have come back to life! Here's something that may further provoke you! I looked in Wikipedia under Huguenot and found the following: ........ St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre...., Catholics rightfully killed thousands of Huguenots in Paris, who had been burning stores and provoking the police, ................................ I deleted, "rightfully" and considered editing the rest, but did not do so - What do you all think about that ? Best wishes Martin Blignaut -- Martin moslins1@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

Hello Martin et al. Well, well. Controvery strikes in HWE !! Fancy that now :) > ........ St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre...., Catholics rightfully > killed thousands of Huguenots in Paris, who had been burning stores > and provoking the police, ................................ If one were Catholic then I am sure you would have the above opinion ? > I deleted, "rightfully" and considered editing the rest, but did not do > so - What do you all think about that ? If one were Huguenot then I am sure you have the above opinion ? This is one of my little "pets" when it comes to historical accuracy merging with religious opinion. Lost huh ? Ok well, if you give it just a little thought and ask yourself just who wrote the stories of local happenings which would become termed "Historical" ? Let's start at the 10th century because I am sure most will know that before that, being able to read and write was very much a religious experience. So, from the 10th century to say umm Luther and his friends, enemies whatever.. by this time many people had gained the ability to read and write AND they were not firmly attached to the Catholic Church. Reason to begin a revolution almost isn't it now ? Don't believe in your Pope and I am going to spread the word. Email was yet to be invented, and so the best way was to write down your thought or protestations of the dominating church. And so the rest is history, well not "History" but history. Anyway...... Up until the idea of protesting by writing, almost all writing was carried out by Catholics in Europe. Let's not forget that the Chinese, Japanese and Egyptians, Greeks, Italians and even Mayans and Aztecs, had been into the writing game for a lot longer. So you have early history according to the Monks, like Gregory and Dodo et al. And to top it off much of pre-Huguenot history was written years, decades and even centuries after the event actually happened and so like any good yarn over time, well distortion appeared, depending on who you backed at the time of writing it all down. Now we all know a whole bunch about our Huguenot ancestors because by golly, someone wrote it down. Let's take Cauvin / Calvin. Many of us think that he was a great fellow and in some things he certainly was. But only "certainly was" from our Huguenot ancestry point of view. If you were anything but Huguenot, then this ratbag student demonstrator was nuts and should have been put away. Ever wondered who worte the things about Calvin ? If I was writing an autobiography I surely am not about to tell you bad things about me now..human nature, isn't it ? So, if it is signed J.C. no no not THAT J.C. the latter one, Jean Calvin, then all you will hear is good works and how he was a man of good standing and only he and his followers knew the way. If you kind of agreed with him or Luther or Zwingli then all of you would collaborate and only write good things about Huguenots or Walloons and absolutely give the Catholics a bad time. On the religious side, well yes, if you are a Calvinist or Lutheran and their derivitives then the words give you comfort and joy in your heart. If you are devout as many are, then anything at all written against Calvin and his bretheren then you a) will not have a bar of it and b) will be only too ready to tell someone that you wont have a bar of it. But ! On the historical side, well now. How do we know that "history" has been recorded with an unbiased opinion ? Yes, I find Wikipedia to be a wonderful project. The beauty of it is that it allows anyone, almost, to record their version of history and then allows others to come along and edit for accuracy. Trouble is, there is no way of leaving ones bias at the door before editing. Just my thoughts and hope it has fellow listers and listerettes pondering prior to rushing to the keyboard on this topic. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Our Irish Huguenot forebear reached Ireland in one of King William III Huguenot Regiments. Shirley

-----Original Message----- From: andreav@mimas.island.net [mailto:andreav@mimas.island.net] On Behalf Of Andrea Vogel Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:23 PM To: HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HWE] Huguenot Migration: FRA > NL > IRL (1670s) What I've been asked to find out is some general info re: the possible migration route(s) taken by Huguenots leaving La Chapelle in France, then on to the Netherlands and from there to Ireland, the specific area in Ireland being Shannon and a place called Six Mile Bridge which I believe is in County Clare. The time period is the 1670s. MD: Perhaps not specifically helpful (for which I'm sorrY) but as a baseline... - Maps of the period for the affected territory will give you land routes (roads) to points of embarkation by river and/or sea. (Keep in mind that we don't have a common system of statute miles at this time, so things can get confusing) - Speed/distance on land routes was a function of vehicle used -- horse, wagon, cart -- and size of party. A healthy man on a healthy horse could cover 50 miles of dry roads in a day -- a family herding a few cows was probably limited to 8-10 miles a day, particularly if wagons or carts (1.5-3 miles per hour) were involved. Anything over about 30 miles a day was considered, in the military doctrine of the 17th century, to constitute a forced march, but there are examples during the wars of religion of protestant forces (mounted) covering 100 miles in a 24 hour period. - Speed/distance on rivers, a function of direction, current (upstream or downstream), and vehicle (barge, boat), etc. A rowed boat is a 1.5-2 mile per hour proposition not accounting for current. A typical sail-rigged ocean-going vessel is a 2-3 mile per hour proposition not accounting for current or wind (so there is variability on any established route based on the weather at the time of travel). Coastal routes were slower. At the upper end, a Spanish or French galley could cover 100 miles in a 24 hour period with a fresh crew.

I'd like to add a query to Andrea's request regarding migration routes: I've tried to find something online regarding how long it would have taken to sail from the south of France to the Netherlands in 1685 aboard an adequate vessel, but haven't found anything that correlates to that specific time and and to the general locations. I'm assuming it would have taken weeks based on some things I've read, but would like to find something that would give a reasonable gauge of time. Thanks all, Marcia On Jun 7, 2006, at 11:23 PM, Andrea Vogel wrote: > > What I've been asked to find out is > some general info re: the possible > migration route(s) taken by Huguenots > leaving La Chapelle in France, then on > to the Netherlands and from there to Ireland, > the specific area in Ireland being > Shannon and a place called Six Mile Bridge > which I believe is in County Clare. The time > period is the 1670s.

Hello, all -- I'm posting this in the hope of tapping into the knowledge and expertise of others on this list (and, yes, I confess -- hopefully, generating a bit of list discussion). Yesterday, I mentioned that "other things" in life may prevent us from participating on mailing lists as fully as we would like. Well, in my case, one of the "other things" I do in my "real" life is volunteer at a local museum/archives. And by happy coincidence, some of the work I've been involved in there may benefit other genealogists both now and in the future. Things like transcribing interviews of local citizens in order to preserve their memories of the "old days" in our community. Or cataloguing and organizing the archival collection of old newspapers -- "old" in this case being only relative, ie. the 1900s. But, in addition, I've also been asked to help ferret out some info for a presentation someone else will be doing later this summer and -- happy day! -- it concerns a descendant of Huguenots, a colourful local character who was well known in these parts some decades ago, back in the mists of the 1900s. Anyway, on to my point. What I've been asked to find out is some general info re: the possible migration route(s) taken by Huguenots leaving La Chapelle in France, then on to the Netherlands and from there to Ireland, the specific area in Ireland being Shannon and a place called Six Mile Bridge which I believe is in County Clare. The time period is the 1670s. I've done some searching on the Net about this but haven't been able to come up with much. I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone has some info which might be useful or any suggestions of potential sources of info, eg. books, websites, etc. And finally, yes, I realise that there are apparently at least four places in France called La Chapelle (Ardennes, Haute-Saône, Savoie and Seine). At the moment, I don't know which one it is because the person whose project this is has been away on holiday. But she's now back so I hope to clarify that detail quite soon. Sorry for the rambling explanation. It's a habit of mine. Best regards to all, Andrea (list concierge)

Listers et Listerettes and Tony Fuller, I am alive, but ! My current interests will eventually return me to the Huguenot era and trying to come to grips with my mixture of Catholic and Huguenot ancestors. But alas, I am "stuck". No fellow subscribers, not with matters Huguenot, I am looking for clues in the 13th century, along a line that does bring me eventually to all things Huguenot. There you go, thats what I am doing. Of course if someone happens to write something that really gets to me, well as many old hands know only too well, I shall respond :) Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello listers has the list been in order for the last week, I have upgraded a very good Anti Virus program I have been using for a long time and your list is not sending me anything. Comments!! TIA and regards from Don.S.DODMAN researching DODMAN [Bacton/Barney/Fakenham/Sculthorpe/Grimston/Tilney/Colkirk etc] DONALD[West Lynn,Tilneys/Clenchwarton incl Walloon connection] SHIRLEY[Briston/Guestwick/Worthing/Billingford etc] KILLINGSWORTH[Clenchwarton/Tilneys/Walpoles etc] HORNIGOLD[Shipdham/W.Raynham/King's Lynn and into Suffolk] SPINKS[Hockwold-cum-Wilton/Bodney/Colkirk/Stoke Holy Cross etc] NFHS Member No.4254. SUBSCRIBER to NORFOLK List. dondodman@btinternet.com http://www.btinternet.com/~dondodman.htm

Hello Don (and everyone) -- yes, the list is working. It's just that we all seem to be in a sound sleep! And have been for a while. I'd been thinking myself that it might be time for a wake-up call but have been busy with other things, just one of which is the adminning of more than two dozen Rootsweb Message Boards. No doubt the rest of you are busy with your own "other things" that inevitably come up in life. So thanks, Don, for posting to the list with your query. Maybe it'll rouse some of us (yes, me too). Anyone care to post about their research? Let us know who/when/where and why. All the details. What you already know, what you are hoping to find out. Or do you have some general info which you think may be of interest to fellow subscribers? If so, please post it. I'll even send out a special invitation to our many lurkers (there are hundreds of you here on HWE, always have been) who seldom or never post. How about it, lurkers? Nobody knows you're here unless you speak up. Did any subscribers in list mode notice the tagline at the very end of Don's message? Ironically, it says "Be a participating subscriber! Post your surname interests often. Once a month is about right, or more often if you have new details." (Taglines are rotating messages which are composed by the list admin on a variety of topics relevent to the list. They're sent out automatically. HWE has quite a few different ones but this is the one that randomly came up this time. But only list mode subscribers will have them included as part of each message they receive from the list. They don't appear in digest mode messages.) And lastly, a comment. If you're wondering in the future if the list is working and/or if you're receiving all the list messages you should, a good reliable way to find out is via the list archives. Our website has info on how to access the archives here: http://www.island.net/~andreav/archives.htm. Select the threaded archives and then the appropriate month/year. A quick glance down the list of subject lines for that time period will tell you if you've received all the messages there. Regards, Andrea (HWE list concierge)

Hi Huguenots were, of course, a diverse group and able to finance wars etc in France, However, once they became refugees in foreign lands, there must have been a substantial minority who found themselves in "reduced circumstances", or who felt, at least, that they should be more frugal in order to conserve their means. Anyway, we need to ask Hanne Thorup Koudal if he thinks that the Huguenots in Denmark were following some French regional diet in which vegetables played a major role,or if they were being frugal,or if it was a little bit of both - whatever the answer, some of them seem to have achieved an enviable longevity! Regards Martin -- Martin moslins1@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

The site below may prove useful to those with English connections. Although Derbyshire based it contains the names of many folks from throughout England and beyond. As it is on-going it may just have eventually your missing ancestor. mike Visit the Journey pages on; http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~spire/journey/index.htm http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm

Martin writes: > I read somewhere that in England they had a > liking for oxtail soup - did they, perhaps, use more vegetables because > of their reduced circumstances? I don't think it's a good idea to make assumptions about Huguenots' economic circumstances as a group -- they were after all of sufficient means, as a group, to field armies rivaling those of the king of France (who was, admittedly, almost always in 'reduced circumstances'), to send ambassadors to foreign courts for extended periods of time, to raise money to rent thousands of mercenary troops, etc. They fielded schemes for social relief, and -- if you believe historians contemporary with them -- always managed to fill the poor-box in the temples on Sunday. There has been a fair bit of historical work done on Huguenot lifestyle issues -- what they wore, what they ate, how they spent their not-so-copious leisure time. For example, Mentzer and Spicer's *Society and Culture in the Huguenot World, 1559-1685* is a great introduction to social historical issues associated with how this diverse group of people we persist in treating as a unitary body actually lived. (You can buy a copy from Amazon.com). Broad conclusions that can be drawn from that research include the following: - dietary preferences were a function of regional situation, not religious persuasion. Huguenots in the southern areas of what is today France ate very differently than those in the northern borderlands (today's northern France and Belgium). Beryond staples (bread, chees) which themselves varied widely based on regional resources-to-hand, root vegetables would be part and parcel of the diet of those regions where root vegetables were easily grown, and what constituted 'exotic' food varied widely as well -- seafood, for example, wasn't much eaten by Huguenots inland from the coast areas because of the lack of preservation facilities (other than drying and salting) and the cost of transportation. - dietary range was a function of economic means. Well-to-do-Huguenots ate substantially the same as well-to-do Catholics and well-to-do Lutherans, though there is significant anecodal evidence that well-to-do Huguenots liked to tweak the noses of their Catholic acquaintances by serving meat on days when Catholics were enjoined from its consumption. I've read fairly broadly (but perhaps not well) in the literature of the time and can't recall any dietary dicta that came out of the various synods or pulpits, though the Huguenot divines did have a need to regulate nearly every aspect of the Huguenot lifestyle so I wouldn't be surprised to find there were some...

HDELMAR@aol.com wrote: >Wikipedia has a good entry on Sally Lunn: > >_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Lunn_ >(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Lunn) > I was delighted to read about Sally Luns, and totally unaware that there is the possibility of a Huguenot link. It must be sixteen years since I visited Bath, but can not recall Sally Luns being on the Pump Room Menu. Yours Aye Andrew Sellon

Wikipedia has a good entry on Sally Lunn: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Lunn_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Lunn)