Hi Peter Are you saying that he was a bigamist? Appears to have married two women within a few weeks of each other. Lambert is also a fairly common English name so at the moment wouldn't concentrate too much on the Walloon line - I'd look for family links to a family called Lambert initially. That said there are many Lambert given names in the aliens registers and denization records(Hug Soc of GB pubs) and any number of Lambert family names. I'd work through the family name first, probably more productive - many many Duprees in the Hug Soc pubs and my private stuff. Regards Tony Fuller

Hi Julie Ok, see what we can do here. For a start, orphans in England in the 1600s were regarded as a blight on the parish in which they lived so, unless your guy was left in a foundling hospital, it's likely that he was in some form of parish establishment. Do you have any idea which part of England he came from, if not, finding him is going to be very hard? The alternative is that IF he was a Huguenot and therefore a Protestante, how did he get passage to Northumberland County. Couple of ideas spring to mind - is there a Cumberland County Historical Society, if so, contact them, they may have information. Secondly, it's likely that IF he were Huguenot, his passage was funded by the Royal Bounty but the chances of that are nil if he was not Huguenot descended. I'm also a bit concerned about the spelling of his name - do you have any variations, LeHu doesn't sort of look right. More to follow when I've done a name search. Regards Tony Fuller

Hello all -- Hope you're all enjoying the season, no matter what season that is in your little part of the planet. Just a couple of administrative comments to make. Firstly, I don't know about you but I really appreciate it when surnames are capitalised in posts to the list. If they're in capitals in the subject line, that's great, but even more helpful is to put each surname mentioned in your actual message in capitals as well. Yes. I know, takes a little more work on your part. But think of the benefits. Your object in posting is to get the attention of the hundreds of other people here and particularly to the surnames you're interested in. The easiest way to do that is to capitalise the surnames. Makes them jump out of the message, makes them SHOUT at you, doesn't it? So, please capitalise. One of our list guidelines mentions this specific topic. Secondly, and this concerns another of our guidelines. The purpose of a mailing list is to share on-topic info with each other *on the list*. Sharing info *off the list* defeats the whole purpose of the list. Instead, it turns into a private conversation between two people that the rest of us aren't privy to. Some of that privately-shared info may be of help or interest to other subscribers but, since it happened off list, they don't know about it. As well, none of the info goes into the list archives for the possible benefit of others in the future. Therefore, if it's on-topic for HWE, I would hope and ask that everyone post queries and replies to the list, rather than privately off-list. Our multilingual HWE guidelines are on our website here: http://www.island.net/~andreav/hweguide.htm. The specific guidelines I've mentioned above are numbers 2 and 6. My best to all of you, Andrea (as list concierge)

Hello Fellow Searchers/Researchers. I am after a big favour please! Can anyone help me with the parents of Charles Hanchard Born/Bapt in April 1790. Almost certainly in Bethnal ,Green London. I have his marriage to Elizabeth parker in shoreditch in 1814, and some of his decendants. I have been unable to fit him in with the rest of the family, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks David Hanchard

Hi My 3x Great Grandfather was Lambert Dupree. He married Mary Taylor 13 November 1763 Spitalfields Christchurch Stepney London England. He married again to Mary Granson 3 November 1763 St. Matthews Bethnal Green London England. This is my Maternal Line. I did a google search for the name Lambert and discovered it is the name of a Belgian Saint. I am now wondering if my Duprees are descended from Belgian Walloons. Any help would be gratefully received. Best wishes Peter Lomas

I wonder if anyone has come across the VANDEN NIEUWENHUYSEN family around Blackburn or Preston in the 19th Century? I have been doing a bit of searching in a friend's family on Ancestry and come across some sort of connection with this name. One of his family appears to have married John Baptist Van Der/Den Nieuwenhuysen. It is all a bit confusing, she appears to have married him in 1865 (circumstantial evidence from the BMD) but she married again before 1871 so I presume he had died. There is a step son Jonathan Abram VANDEN born in Preston about 1867 (he seems to have possibly used the shortened name). There is another step son, Robert Vanden Nieuwenhuysen, born about 1860 also in Preston. There also seems to be a daughter Mary Ann born about 1856 (from cemetery details below) but the only Mary Ann that I have found in the 1871 census was born in Belgium in about 1858. There are quite a few people with that name in Lancashire and some are born in Belgium so I wondered in anyone else had any connections with them and could perhaps help sort out this part of his family. The name seems to be spelt differently just about every time that it appears and one family contracts it to just VANDEN. But I am sure that is a common problem. I was given this information from Preston Old Cemetery which seems to fit with them. "I have a headstone inscription from Preston Old Cemetery with a very similar name to the above. Mary Ann Vanden Niewen Hoysen died 6th November 1905, aged 53 sister of Robert Vanden Niewen Hoysen who died 4th November 1908, aged 50 Mary Ann Vanden Niewen Hoysen wife of Robert who died 29th December 1920, aged 61 also Henry Clark, son in law of Robert who was killed in action on 25th August 1917, aged 36 also Agnes Ann Clark, wife of Henry, who died 10th March 1935, aged 54" Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS

Hi - I'm trying to find Nicholas LeHu - he was born in 1638. He might have been born in England but the information I got from someone else suggests that he was among a group of English orphans indentured to Northumberland County, VA. He was 14 at the time. In Virginia his son (Peter) hung out with the Huguenots near Manakintown. My info has the family as being both Catholic and Protestants so I'm not positive he was a Hugueont (sigh), but family tales has him being one. Does anyone know or can suggest places to look? I have no idea what his parent's names might be... or what town? or even the spelling of his last name, since it is spelled so many different ways today. I know, it's a real puzzle! thank you! Julie --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Hi. Just quickly as this is off the board topic. There is no definitive information in the Cowper book about Freemen. It quotes the oath they took, the requirements of which are in essence unchanged between 1426 and 1902. They swore to be true and faithful o the king and his heirs, to be obedient to the bailiffs (magistrates), later the current mayor of the City and "the Franchises, Usages and Customs of the said City made and to be made maintain and sustain to your power. Also you shall be partner of all things touching the said City as in Summonses, Contributions, Watches, Tallages, and all other charges, as other Freemen of the said City are; and if you shall know of any Congregation, Affinity or Assembly made against the King's Majesty's Peace, you shall give timely notice thereof to the Mayor of the City for the time being. All these points aforesaid you shall well and truly keep. So help you God, and upon pain of losing your liberties." Freeman by birth DESPAIGNE, Henry, carpenter, son of Henry Despaigne, carpenter, 1741 DESPAIN, John, cordwainer, son of Henry Despain, carpenter, 1745 Freeman by marriage SIX, Stephen, silkweaver, m. Anne, daughter of Thomas Colfe, barber, 1730 Freeman by apprenticeship DESPAIGNE, Henry, carpenter, apprenticed to Edward Landman, 1719 LEFEVER, Thomas, of Dover, brazier, a Quaker, was affirmed, 1789 There are a couple of AWCHERS by apprenticship and by marriage, an ANCHOR, Isaac, silkweaver, 1760, who lost Freeman status a month after admission because his wife had died long before he took up his freedom Also by marriage CLINCH, Samuel, gardener, m. Sarah, daughter of William Pout, victualler, 1753 MOOR, John, yeoman, m. Elizabeth, daughter of James Pout, woollen draper, 1714 Sue

French marriage contract written 1677 (spelling and handwriting are difficult to say the least). There's mention of what may be a previously unknown second wife of the groom's deceased father but the the particular phrase dealing with her is questionable: " . . .septante cinq livres qu'ont etre lequer et taill___(?) à la dit Anne Callix par Jeanne Nicolle ---vefue Endernos(?) nopces--- de patron Jacques Callix . . " I found "nopces" to be related to the word "nuptials" so I think this phrase means "the widow and last wife of . . " Can anyone confirm this or otherwise explain what this means?

Hi I'm a bit scatty on this. I've been chasing names rather than getting it clear in my head. I'll get a clearer explanation when I look at the film again on Tuesday, but essentially I think a City such as Canterbury, Bristol, York or Norwich obtained a charter from the King giving it the right to incorporate and manage its own internal affairs. Those admitted as Freeman of that city paid an annual tax enabling them to rights and responsibilities re conducting business within the said city and also I believe gained rights to have some say in what regulations are made and administered. Early on I think they tended to be tradesmen, artisans etc and there is probably some tie up to the guilds . However as you can see from the earlier posting, it does not automatically include everyone who might be found on a list of apprentices there or elsewhere. Also bear in mind, there seem to have been apprenticeships for just about any occupation you might care to name. Apprenticeship records also often give the father's name. Freeman were required to take an oath to the King and to uphold the rules and regulations/laws of the city. I think you can see an echo of the system today when someone is given the keys to the city (ie symbolically the freedom of the city) as a mark of respect or for some outstanding sporting or other feat. Anyway, if anyone else has a clearer idea of this subject, I'd be happy to hear from them. Sue

Sue, wrote: This has probably been discussed before, but Freeman of Canterbury records can be of help in moving a bit further back and making connections. I would like to know what a Freeman is, or was? Sorry to show the ignorance. Phyl searching: Leferver, Despaigne, De Les Pierre, Six, L'Hermite, Courveu, Van Roo, Achar

Hi This has probably been discussed before, but Freeman of Canterbury records can be of help in moving a bit further back and making connections. I'm currently looking at an LDS film, 477365 which had as one of its items, a book called Freeman of Canterbury by Joseph Meadows Cowper in which he provides an index of freemen from, it says, 1392 to 1800. There were 5 ways of becoming a Freeman, by birth, by marriage, by apprenticeship, by redemption and by gift. Apparently there was a sliding scale of fees for admission with that by birth for free (it was required that the father be a freeman at the time of the boy's birth). By marriage drew a low fee with the same proviso that the father be a freeman at the time of his daughter's birth. By apprenticeship cost more and required the master to be a freeman. By redemption was by a sometimes hefty fee - it varied. By gift was for the select few and meant you were someone important like an alderman or had done something nice for the king or the city. The amount of detail in the index varies quite a lot. Everyone is from Canterbury unless otherwise indicated. But looking at possible members of my family, By marriage: OLIVE, James, cordwainer = (married) Katharine, d(aughter) of William Pout, husbandman (and was admitted as a freeman in) 1739 Also there is : OLIVE, Samuel, gardener = Ennet, d of Thomas White, bricklayer, 1747 Going back to Freemen by birth, we find the following OLIVES: OLIVE, James, the younger, cordwainer, 1760 OLIVE, William of Dover, peruke-maker, 1760 OLIVE, Thomas, labourer, 1770 OLIVE, John of Whitstable, baker, 1774 OLIVE, Abraham, of London, cordwainer, 1789 OLIVE, James, of St Dunstan's, Kent, cordwainer, 1795 Going forward, that's 5 sons of James and a grandson. Returning to admission by birth: POUTT, John, joiner, s(on) of James POUTT, draper, 1704 POUTT, William, husbandman, s of James POUTT, draper, 1704 POUT, Thomas, cordwainer, s of James POUT, woollen draper, 1714 POUT, James, collarmaker, s of William POUT, victualler, 1733 POUT, William, pipemaker, s of William POUT, victualler, 1734 POUT, Thomas, pipemaker, s of William POUT, pipemaker, 1747 POUT, James, cabinet maker, 1768 POUT, John, surgeon, 1784 POUT, Charles, upholder, 1789 And looking at Freemen by apprenticeship: POUT, James woollen draper, app. to Thomas JENKIN (admitted) 1676 POUT, William, upholder, 1760 So it would appear that among James Olive's new relatives are his wife's father, William, uncles John and Thomas. William may have changed his occupation to a victualler and James and William may be her brothers and Thomas her nephew. The IGI shows the christening of Katherine Pout, daughter of William and Deborah in 1717 and James born to the same couple christened in 1708. There are a number of possibly Huguenot names in the list. From possible family connections again. By marriage: BLANCHAR, Isaac, of the Precincts, Canterbury, tailor, 1754 BLANCHET, Noah, silk weaver = Elizabeth, d of Joseph BOOTH, grazier, 1741 FEDARB, Jacob of Holy Cross, cordwainer, 1765 FEDARB, Jacob Augustine, cordwainer, 1790 TEVELIN, Isaac, woolcomber = Ann, d of Richard PICARD, hop merchant and Alderman, 1737 TIVELAIN, Abraham, labourer, 1767 TIVLAINE, John, victualler, 1785 TEVELEIN, Matthew Thomas, silk weaver, 1795 By birth: BLANKET, William, s of William Blanket, 1702 FEDARB, Horatio, brazier, 1788 FEDARB, Thomas, of Westgate in Kent, mariner, 1794 FEDARB, Daniel, of Westgate In Kent, cordwainer, 1799 TEVELEIN, Charles, peruke maker, 1760 TEVELEIN, James, woolcomber, 1760 TIVELEIN, Edward, tailor, 1768 TEVELEIN, Joseph, painter, 1774 TEVELEIN, James, peruke maker, 1788 TEVELEIN, Joseph, printer, 1797 By Apprenticeship: BLANKETT, William, dyer, app to Squier BEVERTON, Alderman, and Richard HARDS There a lot of French or Huguenot names. eg. DESPAIGNE, HOMMEE, LE CERF, (including one in transition LE CERF (otherwise) HART), LE GRAND, LEPINE, MRSEILLE, LEFROY, SIX, etc. I probably don't recognize a lot of them or can't tell if they're Huguenot or earlier. Anyway, it's worth a look. at least it might tell you what your ancestor did for a crust. Sue

is there any way of finding out (trace back) the link between the "Chaplins" of Kilkenny, Ireland to the Norman French Hugenot refugees? Vivienne Chaplin

What would "Tertre" mean? Is it a commune? This ship would be from near the port of Saint-Malo. Capitaine : TIMON Olivier (Sr du Tertre) > > 180 Tx Armateur : MARTIN Gilles ( Sr des Parisières). Navire construit > en 1675. > Actionnaires : BRIAND Claude (Sr des Vallées) ; GROU Pierre (Sr de > Villejan) > ; GROU Bernard (Écuyer et Sr de la Corderie) ; MAGON Jean Sr da la Lande ; > MAGON Nicolas (Sr de la Chipaudière) > Capitaine : TIMON Olivier (Sr du Tertre)

Does anybody know of any Huguenot churches in the area of the port of Saint-Malo, Département d'Ille-et-Vilaine, Region Bretagne, that have existing registers? Ray

Hello fellow researchesr. I do very much agree with Andrea's suggestion about the naming of our Huguenot?waloon ancestors, as i have (as most do i suppose) with similar names in my family. I did however read an article (Details of which i cannot lay my hands on at present - typical !) that suggested the resaon for so many old testament names was to differentiate them from R.C followers who used Saints names for their offspring. Hope this is of help regards David hanchard

Hello -- Responding to Sue's question -- > Did the Huguenots have a naming pattern that was usually adhered to like the English and Irish? > This is a good question, Sue, and one that I've long thought I should delve into, particularly to clear up the tangle re: which Jacques was who. But, being born well before the computer age, I feel the only way I can do this is to get out pen and paper and draw the family tree the old-fashioned way, then have a good look at it to see what thoughts (if any <g>) occur. Which I will do. But in the meantime, some thoughts about Huguenot/Walloon naming patterns. Not sure if they had a naming pattern such as the one Sue described (not having done the afore-mentioned pencil/paper routine yet) but, like all others of that time period, at least in England (whether English or French), they tended to use the same common names over and over again. Which often causes headaches for us trying to sort them all out, centuries later. For example, for females: Mary (Marie), Elizabeth, Ann, Sara(h), Catherine, Susan(nah), Jane (Jeanne), etc. For males: John (Jean), James (Jacques), William (Guillaume), Henry, George, etc. If a child died, parents may have used the same name again, even more than once (hence the family with three sons named Abraham which I mentioned a couple of days ago). It's been my experience, though, that Thomas wasn't too popular a choice among French refugees, although it was among the native English. On the other hand, the refugees tended to use Pierre (Peter) which was not at all common in southeastern England so when I see Peter being used in a supposedly "all English" family, I start to speculate about possible Huguenot connections. Ditto the repeated use of Abraham, Isaac and/or Jacob as first names. Many French refugee families used these names repeatedly (again, I'm talking about southeastern England), often through centuries, long after their assimilation into general English culture. I've also encountered it a few times in families not connected to mine and in which no French ancestry is apparent. So I speculate once again on possible Huguenot/Walloon connections in those cases. For females, the names Judith and Esther may pop up regularly amongst refugees or their descendants but were not very common at all among non-refugees. I'm speaking in generalities, here, of course, and only based on what I've observed in my own research. Others may have observed different naming trends in different parts of the world. Lastly, I don't think the subject of naming patterns is complete without mentioning the Scots. At some points in the past, their naming pattern was pretty well adhered to (much more so than with the English, at least in my experience) and it was the one mentioned by Sue, ie. first son after paternal grandfather, second son after maternal grandfather, third son after father, first daughter after maternal grandmother, second daughter after paternal grandmother, third daughter after mother. (I then lose track of what happened after the birth of that sixth child...) Of course, they also used the same names over and over again, using the same names as the English (John, James, William, Elizabeth, Ann, Mary, etc) but adding a few uniquely their own (Duncan, Alexander, David, Andrew, Isabella, Helen, Janet, etc.) Thus endeth my treatise on naming patterns, perhaps without much light being shed. Anyone got any thoughts about this as it pertains to Huguenots/ Walloons? Andrea

Hi, everyone -- This is a response to Kay in Australia who asked about the Canterbury records I mentioned a couple of days go. First, though, my apologies for not specifying that the Canterbury I meant was the one in Kent, England -- ie. not the one in Australia nor the one in NZ nor the one in Canada nor the couple of places of that name in the U.S. <smile>. By saying this, I do not mean to make light of Kay's comment which was a valid one and one I agree with. One of my frustrations with genealogical inquiries, particularly those on the Message Boards, is that people so often post without being specific about locations and particularly without specifying which country they are talking about. They just assume everyone else will know and be familiar with that location. Now here I am, guilty of the same thing! So, my apologies. Kay, since I live in the wilds of western Canada, I have similar problems of long-distance research as you do in Australia and with the accessing of records. Luckily, there are some options and I, for one, could not have done most of my research without those options. The records I mentioned are available on microfilm through the Family History Centres (FHCs) of the LDS church and/or, in the case of the records of French churches in England, also through other means such as the published Quarto series by Huguenot Society of London. For example, if you go to the HWE website page which has info about volumes 1-59 of the Quarto series: http://www.island.net/~andreav/quarto.htm you'll see that many of these volumes have been filmed. In these cases, the list includes the LDS microfilm number of those volumes. They include the Canterbury Walloon or Strangers Church, the French churches in London and the Protestant church at Guisnes (France) which I also mentioned a few days ago. And as the info also explains, the volumes of the Quarto series are often available on the bookshelves of major archives or libraries worldwide. They are indexed so it's quite easy to see if a surname of interest is included in them. And, Kay, it may be of particular interest for you to know that the Australian Genealogical Society has some of these volumes on microfiche. Again, info is on that webpage, although it may be outdated, ie. the AGS may now have more than the first forty volumes. If anyone has updated info, please post it to the list. As for the Canterbury parish/church records, they have also been microfilmed by LDS. Searching in Canterbury is not an easy task, though, because there were 18 separate (Church of England) parishes in the city. So to do a thorough search of that location, there are 18 separate sets of church registers to go through (yes, I've done them all). As for the specific surname GASSAN or GAZAN, unfortunately I can't be of any help there. It's been a few years since I searched these records and if I wasn't specifically looking for certain surnames, I wouldn't necessarily have noticed or remembered them. However, I do recognize the NOE surname (ie. I've seen it before in Canterbury and/or French Church records) as well as, of course, DU PONT and LE FEVRE (often anglicised to FEVER) because they're quite common French surnames. I hope this info has been helpful to you, Kay, and to others on the list. If not, please ask more questions! We all benefit from learning from each other. Andrea

Hi Andrea, Thanks for the fast response. I appreciate any help and information you can give. A question. Did the Huguenots have a naming pattern that was usually adhered to like the English and Irish? eg first son named after father's father, first daughter named after mother's mother, then second son after mother's father etc. If so, it would differentiate between the two Jaques (sounds like a name for a film). An early Sara would indicate a Sara in his immediate line. Anyway, the whole thing looks like a long term investigation. Sue

Hello, everyone -- And a special hello to Sue who is, indeed, a distant cousin via the family lines she mentioned. Thanks for prompting me to post about these surnames, Sue! I haven't done so for a long time (shame on me). What I have posted in the past, though, is in the list archives. Not vouching for either its completeness or accurancy at this point, though, because I did post it several years ago. Now, where to start? Well, firstly, Sue, you mentioned that you're checking the Canterbury parishes/churches. I've done all of them but only in the BTs (Bishop's Transcripts) so if you're delving into the PRs, I'd be interested to know if any differing details or entries come to light. I've also searched the records of the Canterbury Walloon or Strangers' Church and the Protestant church at Guisnes (France). These names show up there plus some more popping up in London, eg. Threadneedle St. Church. Now, as for specific individuals mentioned by Sue. Firstly, Ja(c)ques OLIVE and Marie VER(R)E -- my 8x great grandparents -- married in France? Yes, probably, c1670. Haven't found that record. Jaques' father is unknown but his mother was possibly Jeanne DE BUIRE. She was identified as the mother of Abraham OLIVE in 1673 when he married Suzanne D'ESTIENVILLE at Guisnes. So perhaps Jaques and Abraham were brothers ......could be completely wrong about that, though....but certainly were contemporaries. Then on to Jaques & Marie's son, Jean (bapt 1676), which is where there's somewhat of a tangle -- at least in my notes and records -- which I haven't had the time to sort out over the last few years. Which probably explains why I haven't posted about this line. For one thing, I think that Jean was married twice, the first one being to Suzanne OLIVE on 8 Aug 1702 at Canterbury Walloon Church. And I think that Suzanne was born 2 May 1676 at Balinghuen in France and was the daughter of the above-mentioned Abraham and Suzanne (nee D'ESTIENVILLE). If she was, she and Jean may have been first cousins. Her baptism entry in the records of the Protestant Church at Guisnes says: "Mai 1676: Susanne OLLIVES, fille d'Abraham et de Suzanne D'ESTIENVILLE, bat. le 14e. P. Samuel LE SAGE. M. Madeleine PAS. N. a Balinghuen le 2e." Anyway, they had two children, both in Canterbury -- Jean in 1702 and Susane in 1704. Then, about three weeks after the youngest is born, Susanne died, apparently from childbirth complications. Her death is listed in the Canterbury Walloon records under "Morts", ie. 1704 May 8 -- "La femme de Jean OLIUE, en couche." She was buried in the Canterbury parish of St. Mildred soon afterwards, the entry saying: 1704 May 11 Burial of Susanna, wife of John Olive". Jean (John) then goes on to marry Sara BLANCHARD c1705. Possibly in France? Anyway, I haven't found a marriage record for them. And they have ten children, all in Canterbury. At least half of them died young and were also buried at Canterbury St. Mildred as were Sara and Jean himself (as John), both in 1741. Now, on to the next piece of the puzzle. Was Jean and Sara's son Jacques, born in 1711, the one who married Catherine POUT (originally LE POUTRE) in 1738 in yet another Canterbury parish, St. George's? Or was he the Jacques OLIVE bapt 1714 at the Canterbury Walloon Church, the son of another Jacques OLIVE and his wife (another) Marie, nee FEDERBE? And who was this elder Jacques? Why, he was another of the sons of Jaques and Marie, nee VERE, ie. a brother of the above-mentioned Jean. Hmmmmm....Well, at this point, eyes may be glazing over so I'll leave it at that for now. Very happy to share more details about these family lines though, and will likely do so in some subsequent posts. This will inspire me to start digging through all my info and organizing it. So, more later. And, Sue, of course, I welcome any input you may have about this. Thanks again for posting. Andrea