Hi Elizabeth Need to sort out the Promulgation (by Henri IV, 13 Avril 1598) and the Revocation (by Louis XIV, 16 April 1685) or will cause untold confusion to our research chums. I just can't see the need or the reasons for restricting a definition of Huguenot to specific years and only French - as you rightly say, it excludes all those refugees pre 1685, the Walloons, the Cammisards and the other heretics - so a club can be more exclusive? To me - simple East London lad that I am - Huguenots is Huguenots. Regards Tony Fuller

How could he be, he wasn't French and he couldn't be a Walloon for the same geographical reasons !!!!!!!! Regards Tony Fuller Editor, Huguenot Families

Yes, back again, but please, put down your crossbows and pikes, I come in peace and olive branch and all good stuff. See, I am not reallya a blasphemer or heretic :) While pondering some of the more recent topics I found myself scanning the db during the reformation period and came across a name that has much fascination for us. Now I know they were staunch Catholic but it may just be that my clan had some influence over some of their clan in turning them to the dark side, that is, maybe some took up with the Huguenots. Now the name is featured strongly around the time of Marty Luther but one of the daughters married into my ancestral line and their descendents became Huguenots and so as with all things cause and affect maybe the name CHAUVIGNY holds both Catholic and Huguenot families ? If anyone does have this name buried in the past, I would love to hear from you. Oh and if by chance MACHI rings a bell, them too. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Most Catheres married and had children. The Aude, Toulouse in particular, has more records than most areas of Europe and the inquisitors kindly left paperwork. No, it won't be easy, but perhaps easier than for most in that period of time? Besides the HWE site deals with as much of the movements and philosophy of the Huguenots as it does genealogy, so why not a Cathares site? Giselle The Cathares are another question. Starting from the point that they didn't believe in marriage or baptism and left no paperwork whatsoever, anybody who wants to deal with them as family history is on a hiding to nothing. There may have been survivors and they may have left descendants... but how do you prove it ? OK, the Cathares are fun... but are they genealogy ? Why not Knights Templar while we're at it, with a bit of Holy Grail thrown in - must be some descendants of Mary Magdelene out there somewhere :-) HTH Peter (not Leroy, the other one) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello All and Peter and Tony :) Ah yes, dear Dr. Pangloss was right you know, he had this saying that all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds and that it had to do with cause and affect. Hmm I wonder if Frank Arouet, err Voltaire, had Huguenot ancestors ? I can see how Hug folk would have been considered heretics. I guess it must be genetic in some ways, certainly seems to have come down through my cclan :) So now I suspect that we should move along to yet another cuiosity, a musing of mine. All about that "cross over" period and folks who lived the day. Let's pick on Jean Cauvin (Calvin,) he is always fun and gets folks to rise up and put fingers to the keyboard. He was Catholic, but was he Huguenot ? I suspect one could say that he "became" that way. (Akin to catching some terrible disease back in those days.) So, Luther wasn't but he and some of his chums did take up the reformation of the Catholic cause with gusto. And yes Peter de Meazey, I did misread your words and no you didn't say that Marty Luther was. And I sure as heck did enjoy the words that you used to outline Marty's place in society. You should write a book sometime :) As for Templars, a bunch of well meaning guys who have been given the rough end of history at times, but they weren't Huguenot either, well I don't think they were ? Maybe Tony with the Knowledge, he has access to some wonderful Huguenot CD's you know, could respond with a suggestion for some fireside reading on Templars and Huguenots. Hmm is that with or without an 's' ? Cathares were not Huguenot, I think that is historically accurate and so that topic is a done deal, although they could be considered reformists even though few would have thought that their ways had much to do with the official line of reformation. Hmm who else got a mention in this most recent of exchanges on this most wonderful list, HWE? Ah yes, that Magdaleine chick. Who ? I think the character was way before Calvin and so, nope, she wasn't a heretic err I mean Huguenot. And as for Brown, he wasn't either, so lets not go there either. So folks, a fun and interesting exchnage of history and whit about things Cathare and heretic, but I do think it has run its course, unless of course we can discuss heretics and Huguenots living and breathing in the same period. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi I have just read an article in which it is asserted that some protestant churches claim a Cathar legacy. In addition, it states that weavers were often accused of spreading Cathar doctrine and that - much later, of course - weavers were often accused of spreading Protestantism. Anybody want to claim an unbroken line of heretical weavers as ancestors to keep us on-topic? Martin Blignaut -- Martin moslins1@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?

Weren't they all wiped out ? So... no descendants, no genealogy ? I'm afraid Simon de Montfort had the last word on all :-)

Hi Giselle No, if they allow snake charmers in why not Cathares - should get this one I hope. Unless it's a religious thing, no heretics here ......... Tony F

Hi folks Been refused Message Board on grounds of 'no proven genealogical interest' - am appealing of course. Tony F

"So.. Even though I do fear death by fire.. To say that Luther was a Huguenot , to me at least.. Is wrong." While I have never been able to amplify, embellish or prove my line from subscribing to this mail list, I nevertheless have read Peter's comments over the years. He continues to educate , make ya think, and laugh out loud! Keep up the great prose, Peter.....

Hi Tony, You're going to have fun with this one :-) Have you come across the bunch that claimed God created the World/Universe/Discworlds/etc when he had had too much to drink ? Seriously, I am not making this up. They were executed - I think in what is now Syria - somewhere around 950 A.D. Pity really, because when you think about it ... Sort of makes Him more human. Don't know if there are any descendants out there... Hi Peter :-) Honni soit et cetera, Peter

Hi folks Apologies to Andrea in advance for this one ........ OK, put me money where me mouth is and have applied to Rootsweb for Message Board and Forum called CatharesandHeretics - more to follow when I hear from them, Rootsweb that is, not the Heretics. Regards Tony Fuller

ooooooooo what Peter utttered, You are going to get got for that one, young fella. I tell you..snails and lightining and locusts and stuff like that :) > Pity really, because when you think about it ... Sort of makes Him more human. Him who ? Oooooooooh 'That' Him hmmm don't think He was Huguenot nor Walloon so that has to be OT me thinks :) Kind Regards, Peter Leroy Apportez sur la révolution !

Ah hah ! Great site offered Martin and thank you > http://www.marne-archive.com Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Reims is in the Marne [51] and there is a very useful [free] site for the Marne Department. http://www.marne-archive.com I use it a lot as I am interested in the area just south of Epernay. Martin Blignaut -- Martin moslins1@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

Hello Elizabeth, > "Descendants of Religious Oppositionists", the Cathers and the Huguenots and those French > heritage Swiss who found in Zwingli, a religious leader, we might be able to > address them all... At first I was wondering how you would have known about our ancestors :) Our clan only became Catholic as that is where the money was way back when. Many of them remained so until hearing Cauvin chattering away at the Sorbonne. I tell you, didn't that cause a kaffufel in the tribe. > Keeping in mind that there are some Huguenot groups that limit membership > to descendants of those who left France in a given time period after the > promulgation of the Edict of Nantes.. which if strictly applied, would exclude > many if not all Walloons from inclusions with Huguenots, as technically > speaking they were ruled by the Spaniards and therefore not .... nevermind... > perhaps there is a need for an additional group on rootsweb. Oh noooo I am not suggesting that HWE be 'restricted' too much as far as time period is concerned, from Luther onward is fine for many.. I did make mention of how I would suggest that perhaps there is a way of expanding that time period from the early days of the Reformation to the late 1600's I do believe that I once came upon a group on Rootsweb that did seem to be a tightknit group who only wished to discuss Huguenot ancestors, of course one had to also document in six copies and swear a blood oath that your ancestor did arrive from France. A select group me thinks, with limited interest, in all things Huguenot and/or Walloon. > I do hope something is found > on the Cathares as it could be an interesting and probably active list Now if one were to create a more general list such as the Reformation, then maybe Cathares could be openly discussed along with things Protestante and Walloon. Oh and while I have fingers to the keyboard... Jesus was a Christian ? Hmm ok ok.. so Luther was a Protestant then even though he was Catholic ? And Columbus discovered America ? No I am only kidding.. except that Luther was not a Huguenot. I don't think the word existed in his time ? Hopefully someone with knowledge of middle age French or German language could correct me on that ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Tony, I haven't been online much for awhile. Your message is dated 11/23 but I just got it today 11/28. I guess you have been living in France for awhile now (?) but are back in UK for a short time with Hug Soc? Do the CDs below have any information on our mutual interest Gideon DELAUNE (DELAWNE) the apothecary? If you think anything of interest is included would you let me know the cost and the same if you have run across any additional and/or new information. I've been much distracted by family affairs and it would be a relief to bury myself again in the gen research which I hope to do soon. Since you are now living in France could you point me to the best gen site for Reims genealogy? It would be exciting to take the family back to their birth site and also the father Guillaume, I believe, attended Montpilier (?) Graduated I think. Is there a library there that goes back to the 1500s? I'm not sure I have the name right as I'm just writing this off the top of my head since I noticed your Hug Soc sale notice but I think you will know what I mean. Guillaume was a Dr. and a Preacher (some say Walloon, others say Huguenot). You are so helpful to everyone on the list and it is much appreciated, I know by all. Barbara DULANEY Engel OKC, OK, USA bdengel@cox.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <huguenots-walloons-europe-request@rootsweb.com> To: <huguenots-walloons-europe@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:01 AM Subject: HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Digest, Vol 1, Issue 31 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Hug Soc of GB - Sale time (fuller.tony) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:49:19 -0000 > From: "fuller.tony" <fuller.tony@wanadoo.fr> > Subject: [HWE] Hug Soc of GB - Sale time > To: <Huguenot-L@rootsweb.com>, > <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003901c70e66$eb1df2d0$c05e055a@toshiba01> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi folks > > Not wanting to promote anything commercial here. > > The Hug Soc of GB and Ireland has decided to have a bit of a clear out of > its stock. > > To that end, it has reduced the price of the first series of CDRoms and is > offering 'Strangers to Citizens' at a greatly reduced price for Fellows > and non-Fellows alike. No other books included in sale, tho of course, > the Society sells other books on Huguenot history. > > If you send me a private email, I'll give you the details. > > Regards > > Tony Fuller > Editor, Huguenot Families > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE list administrator, send an email > to > HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE mailing list, send an > email to HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Digest, Vol 1, Issue 31 > ******************************************************** >

In so far as what you are saying, the lines were not as clear between groups as some seem to believe. Recently, while working on my husband's definitely "Dutch" Dutch Reformed, I found a relative of mine I thought lost...a brother to my many gr. grandfather's ago, a Pierre desChamps, which the Dutch soon changed to Peter Shamp or Sham.. as one might expect, he married a relative of my husband's.. perhaps under some heading similar to "Descendants of Religious Oppositionists", the Cathers and the Huguenots and those French heritage Swiss who found in Zwingli, a religious leader, we might be able to address them all... Keeping in mind that there are some Huguenot groups that limit membership to descendants of those who left France in a given time period after the promulgation of the Edict of Nantes.. which if strictly applied, would exclude many if not all Walloons from inclusions with Huguenots, as technically speaking they were ruled by the Spaniards and therefore not .... nevermind... perhaps there is a need for an additional group on rootsweb. In any case, I am beginning to smell something of a scorch and recalling remarks of an auto da fé I beleive I'll retreat. I do hope something is found on the Cathares as it could be an interesting and probably active list Elizabeth peter@leroy.ws wrote: And hello and all that salutory greetings, Somewhere recently, and I won't look it up for now, someone mentioned that the HWE topics should cover the time period from Luther onward. Or words similar. Now to me, and I know, I know, folks may wish to jump up and gather around my grand auto de fete for me even suggesting such.. Luther was not a Huguenot. He was a middle of the road, out of the way, Catholic monk.. dabbled in writing and for whatever the reason became some sort of folk hero toward the end of the Reformation. All he ever wanted was for the Pope, and his cronies of the time, to get back to basics and try to be a little more humble. He also thought that doctrine of the time was heading in the wrong direction. Hence he protested..95 theses and all that. It is my thinking that if one wishes to narrow..and I would be against such, indeed I would like to see it expanded to cover the Reformation period in general.. the time period of the HWE to simply Walloons and Huguenot..(Protestante) then maybe it should only go from Zwingli to around the late 1600's ? So.. even though I do fear death by fire.. to say that Luther was a Huguenot , to me at least.. is wrong. Now I will take cover and hide behind a Cathare descendent.. there must be one somewhere. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'll take that one. Jesus wasn't a Christian --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out!

And hello and all that salutory greetings, Somewhere recently, and I won't look it up for now, someone mentioned that the HWE topics should cover the time period from Luther onward. Or words similar. Now to me, and I know, I know, folks may wish to jump up and gather around my grand auto de fete for me even suggesting such.. Luther was not a Huguenot. He was a middle of the road, out of the way, Catholic monk.. dabbled in writing and for whatever the reason became some sort of folk hero toward the end of the Reformation. All he ever wanted was for the Pope, and his cronies of the time, to get back to basics and try to be a little more humble. He also thought that doctrine of the time was heading in the wrong direction. Hence he protested..95 theses and all that. It is my thinking that if one wishes to narrow..and I would be against such, indeed I would like to see it expanded to cover the Reformation period in general.. the time period of the HWE to simply Walloons and Huguenot..(Protestante) then maybe it should only go from Zwingli to around the late 1600's ? So.. even though I do fear death by fire.. to say that Luther was a Huguenot , to me at least.. is wrong. Now I will take cover and hide behind a Cathare descendent.. there must be one somewhere. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy