Listers -- Thanks to Howard < hswain@ix.netcom.com > who posted earlier today on the subject, there is no need for me to post the further information I mentioned in my previous post (subject line: Persons of Quality, etc.). As Howard said, this info (ie. Walloons and French to Virginia, 1621) is available already at this URL -- http://www.genealogy-quest.com/collections/walloons.html. It's interesting that this venture to the New World apparently never reach a successful conclusion. Not mention of this by HOTTEN. By the way, this book may still be a useful reference for those of you who are researching ancestors who went from England to US in this time frame (ie. 1600-1700). Thanks again to Howard for his contribution to this topic. Bye, all. Andrea

List, Finally, I can contribute something. John Camden HOTTEN's book of the wonderful title is available in hard cover in most good genealogy libraries because it's a standard and well known text. I just called my local library, and they even have a circulating copy I can take out of the library and have my way with (at the cheaper xerox machine in my neighborhood) <g> Bonnie Bowman Henson in San Diego County, CA Researching TAIT/TATE and a number of other Huguenot settlers in early Western North Carolina/Old Rowan County

Hi all, At 09:41 AM 10/22/00 +0100, Roy Day wrote: > >Have you for example consulted the "Leiden Collection". This is a card >index of such people and is available on film through the LDS. It covers >the period 1500 - 1828 and the appropriate film number can be found by >entering Leiden as the place and then church indexes. There are 10 printed >pages of film references. snip I hope Roy will correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression from Gwenn Epperson's books, New Netherland Roots, that the Leiden Collection includes records of Walloons from other locations in addition to Leiden. Eg. it includes some records from Mannheim. Also, just to see if I've found the right microfilms, do the LDS film nos for this collection run from 0,199,755 thru 0,199,952? (I have not yet used this collection.) Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

Hi all, At 10:16 AM 10/24/00 -0700, Andrea Vogel wrote: > Hi, everyone -- > Here is a source which could possibly be useful for info about >ancestors who went from England to New England or Virginia during the >time period 1600-1700. snip > > There are many different items in this book, as the title implies. >Some of them include, for example -- Passengers Which Passed from Ye >Port of London 1635, This may be from the oaths of allegiance list of 1635 which has been widely printed; eg. in early issues of New England Historical and Genealogical Register. It is probably >Inhabitants of Virginia 1620's, Muster Rolls, >many passenger lists of named ships and the English ports from which >they left.The Mayflower is one such list. > Most of these persons listed in this book are not identified as >Huguenot or Walloon, and probably aren't, although some surnames may >give a clue. > However, there is one specific section titled "Walloons and French >Emigrants to Virginia", dated 1621. I believe this is the same >document mentioned by a couple of other listers in previous posts -- >ie. Tom (15 Oct) and Howard (18 Oct). > I will post information from the "Walloons and French Emigrants" >section in two parts later today. You may want to first see if this is your list: http://www.genealogy-quest.com/collections/walloons.html This venture between the Walloons and the English never came off, though. I don't know that any of them ended up in Virginia. Two years later, Jesse de Forest and Jean de la Montagne went to Guiana with some others. Jesse died there on 22 Oct 1624. Jean arrived back in Leyden in 1626. Later in 1636 Jean de la Montagne sailed to New Netherland, arriving there in 1637. Although the list does not, therfore, tell us that these people left in 1621 or at all; it may be of interest in telling us that the people on it were "Walloons and French." Baird in his History of the Huguenot Emigration to America, vol I, pp 348 - 354 has the petition, the list, and some further notes on some of the Walloons such as who they married, where they were from. Regards, Howard hswain@ix.netcom.com

In response to Andrea's recent friendly disapprobation about my and others life as list fringe dwellers, I have earnestly quested after some item I could contribute. Like many readership of the list is a learning experience and 'the more I learn, the more I know the less I know'. Anyway the solution to my quest came from my own library when involved in a post Olympic, spring clean, redecorate, move the bookcases dear type of activity, and I offer the following two references which may be use or interest to someone. The first may be of interest to list members in the USA. It comes from the journal of the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors of June 1981, Whole Number 212, Vol xx111, No 3 and an article about Huguenot Clockmakers in America. The article draws on a number of books on American Clocks and Clock Makers and lists the following Huguenot makers. 1. Jacob Mechlin - Berks County. Noted in documents dated 1759 - 60. 2. Michael Hugus - Somerset County. His father John reportedly came from Germany to America in 1761. The article goes on to suggest that the family name may have originally been Hugo. He apparently married a Somerset "girl" in 1801 and died Nov 25 1825. 3. Jacob Flournoy - Virginia. Born Geneva Jan 5 1663 from a distinguished Huguenot family that included watchmakers, lapidaries, goldsmiths and jewellers. Originally settled near Williamsburg in 1700. 4. Nicholas De Languemare - Charleston. Came with his father Nicholas Snr >From Dieppe to Charleston in 1685. Primarily a goldsmith and silk dealer, he learnt enough of the art of watchmaking from his father to enable him to do repairing. The article goes on to list many of his customers and work undertaken from his account book for the period 1703 -11 written in a fascinating combination of english and french. The second discovery was in the 1904 Annual of 'The British Workman' which is a compilation of highlights from 'The British Workman and Home Monthly for 1903 (goodness knows where I got it from). The book appears dedicated to the fulfilment which comes with a good Christian attitude and hard skilful work as exemplified by British Workmen etc! (The protestant work ethic). One item is titled 'The coming of the Huguenots to London' and is accompanied by an illustration 'The Huguenot Farewell' from the painting by MILLAIS. The article itself tells the story of the Huguenots and the wealth of skills which they brought with them thus enriching England. It pays particular attention to the silk weavers of Spitalfields and their good work. Only one name is mentioned a Mr Charles Montague, at the time the Hon Sec of the King Edward Schools and Mission. Intrigued by all this I punched Spitalfield into the search engine and found the site http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/forum/spit_h0.html which has a photo of the 1743 French Chapel. This all may not help with your genealogical studies but you may find it interesting. I am prepared to scan and email the articles as .PDF files if anyone is interested. For Andrea, I hope you will smile kindly on me for my contribution. I will keep looking in all those books I purchased over the years to read in my retirement and who knows what I will find. Finally I know what it is like to be the willing horse on a committee and I imaging that is how you feel about the level of contribution to the list. But please be assured that your seemingly indefatigable efforts are greatly appreciated by all list members. Regards to all, John Tevelein

Dear list members, One branch of my familytree is the DELZEIT/DELLZEIT/DELSEIT/DELSEID branch. These people came from the Rheinboellen area. According to the marriage entry in the Rheinboellen catholic churchbook Peter Delzeit came from Hergenfeld near Bad Kreuznach. >From a researcher I got 2nd hand info that Delzeit (and other spelling ar Bad variations of this name) came from Belgium and were Huguenots. Unfortunately I have no proof for this statement, so it might be complete nonsense. Questions: Could someone in the list please help me to find out whether the above statement is true or not? Is there anyone who has info on this family? This is what I have so far: 1. Delzeit, Anton, rk * 1816 Erbach/Hunsrück near Rheinboellen + 1864 Erbach oo 1842 at Rheinboellen Ketzer, Anna Katharina, rk 2. Delzeit, Christoph, rk * 1781 Erbach + 1857 Erbach oo 1813 at Rheinböllen Dohm, Katharina Maria 4. Delzeit, Peter, rk * about 1750 (Hergenfeld?) + 1820 Erbach oo 1774 at Rayerschied Acht, Anna Christina, rk 8. Delzeit, Anton * ???? + before 1820 oo not known when and were N.N., Julianna Regards Richard

Hi, everyone -- Here is a source which could possibly be useful for info about ancestors who went from England to New England or Virginia during the time period 1600-1700. This is an indexed book of 580 pgs, published in NY in 1931, edited by John Camden HOTTEN, with a very long and most wonderful title which is -- The Original Lists of Persons of Quality; Emigrants; Religious Exiles; Political Rebels; Serving Men Sold For A Term of Years; Apprentices; Children Stolen; Maidens Pressed; And Others Who Went >From Great Britain To The American Plantations 1600-1700, With Their Ages, The Localities Where They Formerly Lived In The Mother Country, The Names Of The Ships In Which They Embarked, And Other Interesting Particulars. The title page states that the contents of the book are: "From MSS Preserved In The State Paper Department Of Her Majesty's Public Record Office, England." This book may be available in the libraries of major universities or archives. Or try a book-finding service such as www.bookradar.com. It is also available on -- 1) LDS fiche # 6051412 (this is a set of 7 fiche, with an index on fiche #7) or 2) LDS film # 476924 or 3) in the US/CAN section of the Family History Library in Salt Lake, call numbers 973 W2hot. There are many different items in this book, as the title implies. Some of them include, for example -- Passengers Which Passed from Ye Port of London 1635, Inhabitants of Virginia 1620's, Muster Rolls, many passenger lists of named ships and the English ports from which they left.The Mayflower is one such list. Most of these persons listed in this book are not identified as Huguenot or Walloon, and probably aren't, although some surnames may give a clue. However, there is one specific section titled "Walloons and French Emigrants to Virginia", dated 1621. I believe this is the same document mentioned by a couple of other listers in previous posts -- ie. Tom (15 Oct) and Howard (18 Oct). I will post information from the "Walloons and French Emigrants" section in two parts later today. By the way, I did not find any "children stolen" although I haven't looked at all the information. And "maidens pressed"?? Hmmm....what can that mean? Placed into domestic service, I'm assuming. Hope this is of interest to some of you. Andrea

To The LIST -- In the following issue of Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter , Vol. 5 No. 43- October 21, 2000, there appeared a follow-up to the recent long submission about LEIDEN HISTORIC SITES. The following article is from Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter and is copyright 2000 by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published here with the permission of the author. Barbara Sacks <BBSacks@aol.com> **************************** - More on the Threat to the Leiden, Holland, Pilgrim Sites Two weeks ago I wrote about the City of Leiden's intention to demolition the remains of the Vrouwekerk, the medieval church that was used by the Walloons (Huguenots) after the Reformation. Several Huguenot families, including Philip Delano, Francis Cooke and his wife Hester Mayhew, Edward Bumpas and others, later became Pilgrims. As such, this site is important in both Dutch and American history. According to Dr. Jeremy D. Bangs of the Leiden American Pilgrim Foundation in Leiden, a victory for genealogists and historians can now be proclaimed. Dr. Bangs writes, "Regarding the Aalmarkt site, we've won! - to the extent that AHOLD has just sent me letters announcing their refusal to participate in the project if Pilgrim sites are threatened! Great news! Of course, the town itself has yet to change its attitude, but this may heavily influence them. The many letters and the UCC petition have been very important in this, which is half the fight here. I'm sending you copies of the two letters I got this evening. "This development does not mean that we can relax about the Vrouwekerk; and how the town reacts to the Aalmarkt situation must be watched carefully. An alderman told me that they would just try to find other investors if AHOLD pulls out, and that means pressure still needs to be exerted on FORTIS and ABN/AMRO. But it is certainly an important shift in the scenery." One of the letters he mentions is from Hans Gobes, Senior Vice President of AHOLD, a company that wanted to build a new store in the area. Mr. Gobes wrote, "As you have been informed AHOLD made clear to the Leiden city government on July 7 that it does not want a new store location in the center of Leiden if this would mean that Pilgrim monuments would have to be demolished. We believe it should be possible to do the center project while leaving the monuments intact. Today I repeated our position in a telephone conversation with a Leiden city official. As it seems there is growing interest and as I want to avoid misunderstandings we plan to contact next week the local Leiden newspaper for an article on AHOLD's position." As Dr. Bangs points out, this is not the end of the battle. It simply means that one of the would-be developers has pulled out. There are others. Your letters and e-mails are still important. Those wishing to contact Fortis can write or send e-mail to: Fortis Investors Inc. P.O. Box 64284 St. Paul, MN 55164 Financial@us.fortis.com For ABN/AMRO, write to: ABN AMRO Incorporated 208 South LaSalle Street Chicago, IL 60604 For Leiden City Council: Mailbox@leidenpromotie.nl =

Bonjour, tout le monde -- Yesterday (22 Oct), Ian <101637.210@compuserve.com> was asking about the DRAPINIER and LE DRAPINIER surnames. Specifically, he wanted to know -- 1) >..........whether the names DRAPINIER or LE DRAPINIER have been found to have Huguenot origins.> There is no way to answer this question which would fit all circumstances and families with this surname. Some Catholic persons with this name may have chosen, at some time in 16th-18th century Europe, to become Protestant. Still others -- possibly in the same family -- with the same surname, may have chosen not to. The only way such a question can be answered with certainty is for a researcher to trace his/her particular family branch back in time, finding his/her own ancestors in Huguenot records. This will only mean, however, that that particular branch or family with that surname was Huguenot. It does not prove that all branches and families with the same surname were Huguenot. 2) > Do these names actually occur as French surnames? > For an answer to this, I tried searching for this surname in various places, such as the following -- * listings in current GRD's (Genealogical Research Directory) * the online IGI (for both England and France) on the LDS site * a general search engine (www.alltheweb.com) * a genealogy search engine (www.genealogyportal.com) * telephone directories for France (http://www.teldir.com/) * telephone directories for England (http://www.bt.com/phonenetuk/) In all cases mentioned above, I found not a single reference to this name. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable French surname but, at least from my search, it doesn't seem to exist. Ian, you seem to have suspected this by asking the question. There may be three possible explanations. One, that the name does exist but we just haven't found it. Two, the name once existed but has now died out entirely (worldwide??) Three, that it actually existed under some other spelling but appeared briefly, for reasons unknown, with the (LE) DRAPINIER spelling in the area mentioned by Ian (London, late 18th century). A personal story of my own may be of interest here, in connection with the third explanation above. The dates and location are different and the surname isn't of Huguenot origin but it does include a name which doesn't exist except for a short 24 year period. It involves William IDDENDEN, who was my great grandfather. He was married in 1870 and had sixteen children between 1870-1894, all in East Kent, ENG. But if you look for that marriage or any of those births in the UK civil registration indexes you won't find them. The reason is that all are registered under the spelling HOIDENTEN, not IDDENDEN. HOIDENTEN is a surname that does not exist, as far as I know, except for these 17 civil registrations. How did it happen? Probably this way. I think William supplied his surname to the clerk at the registration office but, because of a regional Kentish accent, it sounded like HOIDENTEN and that's the way the clerk wrote it down. Because William couldn't read or write (not unusual at the time), he didn't recognize the error so he couldn't correct it. And the registration office continued to spell the name the same way for a quarter of a century. I should add that, during the same time period, the family appeared in various censuses and residents' directories with their surname spelled correctly. Hope all this has helped. Sorry for the length. Hopefully, others besides Ian will learn something which will be of use in their own searches. Andrea

Listers -- I am forwarding to the list the following post which was sent to me by a non-subscriber. Please direct any replies to him personally at his own e-mail address. Thanks. Andrea >-----Original Message----- >From: BkJuglr@aol.com <BkJuglr@aol.com> >To: huguenots-walloons-europe-l-request@rootsweb.com ><huguenots-walloons-europe-l-request@rootsweb.com> >Date: October 22, 2000 5:33 PM >Subject: LE COUVREUR research > >Looking for the parents of a Henry LeCOUVREUR, b. 1822 France (British >Subject), m. Isabella GOUNDRY, b. 1817, Hudswell, Yorkshire, England. It >is believed that Henry's family may be French Huguenots. They (Henry & >Isabella) were living in Barnard Castle, Durham, England in the 1851 census. >They later emigrated to the USA in mid 1850's and settled in Yates Co., New >York. >Any info on this family would be appreciated. > >Donald LeCouver Ketchum Jr. >Long Beach, CA USA

Hello, listers -- As a follow-up to the topic of European mailing lists which came up recently, here is some information. Please consider joining a mailing list for the geographical location where your ancestors once lived (or possibly lived). AND, most important, post some queries on that list!! There are all kinds of helpful, knowledgeable people out there who may be able to help you. Even if you decide not to stay long, remember that your query will be in the list archives to be found in the future, should others be looking for the names you mentioned. And, as Roy mentioned in his post the other day, language need not be a barrier to European inquiries. Some lists accept English. Even for those which do not, a simply worded inquiry translated via an online service (such as those mentioned a few days ago) should work fine. Mention that you are unfamiliar with the language. Most people will be sympathetic to that and act accordingly. 1) John Fuller's web site, Genealogy Resources on the Internet, has a very complete index of mailing lists for Europe, the UK and Ireland. The URL is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/internet.html. Once on this site, scroll down and click on Mailing Lists. Scroll down again, then click on Countries Other Than USA. You will see an alphabetical listing of countries from which you can make a selection. Taking France as an example, there are over 100 mailing lists to choose from, covering various regions and some topics. Instructions are there for subscribing. Usually, there is also information as to what language(s) is/are accepted for each list (sometimes English but not always). And another example, Belgium has five mailing lists to choose from, this list being one of them. 2) Rootsweb also has a selection of mailing lists but I didn't find that the lists or the information about them as complete as John Fuller's. For example, there are only three lists mentioned for Belgium (and HWE isn't one of them <g>). The URL to go to is http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/. Scroll down and select the International Mailing Lists, then the country you are interested in. There are about 30 listed for the various regions in Germany, for example. Good luck to those of you who are going to give this a try! I hope you will report back to us with any news gleaned from these sources. Andrea

A cousin of mine found this wonderful site....enjoy,malinda Beverly Pense wrote: > http://www.kopower.com/~jimchstn/hugsrcs2.htm > > http://www.hhs-newpaltz.org/ > This is really interesting. You can mouse over the > names of the families and get a picture on the side of > their homes. Interesting that some of them retain the > german, Holland architecture. First you must click on > Walk down Huguenot Street and it will take you to the > families who live there. I didn't go to any of their > pages but did enjoy of mouse over effect and the view > of their homes. ( couldn't resist....had to go back > and have a view of thier pages...LOL) temptation was > too great. I'm glad I did. some of them were built in > the early 1800's.You definitely must take the Winter > Walk down Huguenot Street. AWESOME Must see at least > the Deyo house and the French Church. Miscellanous > and more scenes is also pretty neat. It may be a > little slow loading but sure is worth the time. > > Beverly > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/

Hello, fellow listers -- I recently bought a little gem of a book called the EyewitnessTravel Guide to Amsterdam. This is one of a series published in London by Dorling Kindersley. I know that this series also includes other European cities/countries and I would recommend them highly. The book includes a real mix of very interesting information, such as social and political history, architecture, customs, etc. The maps are also wonderful. Anyway, I was pleased to see a bit of info included about the SIX surname, although it does not mention its Huguenot origins. Those of you who have been on the list for a while will remember previous posts about this name. On pg. 117, for example, there is a map showing the exact location of the SIX home on the Herengracht, saying that: "Descendents of the original SIX family still live in this splendid house, which is now a private museum." On pgs. 118-119, under the heading "Six Collection" is the following information: "The SIX Collection comprises an accumulation of fine paintings, furniture, silverware and porcelain objects belonging to the descendents of Jan SIX (1618-1700). He was one of the richest men in the city, who, it was said, had 'innumerable boxes of money' at his disposal. Before he was appointed burgomaster of Amsterdam in 1691, Jan SIX had been a friend and patron of Rembrandt. The father-in-law of Jan SIX was the subject of Rembrandt's painting 'The Anatomy Lesson of Professor TULP', now in the Mauritshuis. SIX's extensive art collection includes two portraits by the artist: one of SIX himself, and the other of his mother, Anna WIJMER. The painting of Jan SIX is considered by many to be Rembrandt's finest portrait. It is also thought that this work was Rembrandt's way of paying back a 1,000-guilder loan he had received from SIX. In addition to the Rembrandt paintings, the SIX collection also includes works by other Dutch masters such as Frans HALS, Thomas DE KEYSER, and Albert CUYP. Descendents of Jan SIX still live in part of the building, which was designed by Adriaan DORTSMAN. Consequently, the museum's opening hours are limited. Before visiting the SIX Collection, visitors must first ask for a letter of introduction, which is obtainable on production of a passport at the information desk of the Rijksmuseum." On pgs. 102-103, there is a small picture portrait of Jan SIX II as well as drawings of the beautiful houses on the Herengracht, including the SIX home. The Herengracht is described as lined with "grand, wide-fronted mansions". As for the SIX home, it says: "The facade of No 495 Herengracht was rebuilt and a balcony added by Jean COULON in 1739 for burgomaster and art expert Jan SIX." On pg. 188 is a small reproduction of 'The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Nicholaes TULP' (mentioned above), painted in 1632, with this description: "Rembrandt's painting of surgeons examining a corpse reflects the burgeoning contemporary interest in anatomy and science." Also as mentioned above, this work hangs in the Mauritshuis which is described as "a small art gallery set on three floors ....packed with paintings crowded on to all available wall space.....one of the finest galleries in the Netherlands." I hope this bit of SIX history has interested some of you. Andrea

I would be interested to know whether the names DRAPINIER or LE DRAPINIER have been found to have Huguenot origins. Do these names actually occur as French surnames ? The specific context is the London area, late eighteenth century. Ian Wallace (in Bexleyheath, Kent)

Hello, list -- On 12 Oct, Clive <Clive.Bates@btinternet.com> asked some interesting questions on the list. I haven't noticed any comments or answers yet so thought I would give it a try, hopefully to Clive's satisfaction. If anyone else has thoughts to add to mine, either in agreement or disagreement, please do post them. I've included my replies below, as indicated by the **, after each of Clive's questions. Here's what Clive asked -- What makes a Huguenot a Huguenot?. Is it: 1. A person whose records are found in a Huguenot, Walloon or Strangers Church. ** I would say yes to this. A person whose name is found in such records would have been attending that church because they were a member of that congregation and an adherent to the beliefs of that church. But remember, as well, that the people which we, today, call Huguenots would not have called themselves that. The Huguenot label arose later and the origins of it are not definitely known. 2. A person who has married into a Huguenot family. ** I would say no. Marrying into a Huguenot family does not in itself make that person Huguenot. 3. A person who because of persecution has emigrated from a Huguenot area irrespective of religious persuasion. ** I would say no again. A Huguenot was a Protestant (follower of John Calvin) forced to flee their homeland in Europe because of persecutions by Catholic governments of that day. 4. A person whose parents were Huguenots but whose christening or birth is not found in Huguenot or Walloon records. ** I would say that such a person is a child of (descendent of) Huguenot refugees. Lastly, Clyde also asked -- Were Huguenot immigrants to Canterbury immediately absorbed into the Church of England? ** First, keep in mind that the first refugees to arrive in Canterbury were mainly Walloons from Flanders, starting in the mid-1500's. Later, in the 1570's, French Protestants from France began arriving after the St. Bartholomiew's Day Massacre. Also keep in mind that the refugees never built a church of their own -- they were given various locations by local authorities where they could hold their services, the last one being space in the Undercroft of the Cathedral. Anyway, back to Clive's question. I think the answer to it is sometimes yes but sometimes no. In other words, there's no one answer which would fit all refugees, times periods and circumstances. Some may have begun attending one of the already-existing (C of E) parish churches soon after their arrival, although this may have been rare because of the language difference. Others may have chosen to attend only the Walloon Church for some time (or the Malt-house Chapel when it was set up in the early 1700's) before going to the parish church. Still others may have gone to parish churches for certain events, eg. burials -- because I don't think the Walloon Church had a burial ground, or at least I've not heard of one -- and to the Walloon Church for marriages or baptisms. In any case and for all the refugees, assimilation eventually took place. This most likely varied from family to family and perhaps from parish to parish. For a detailed post about the Walloon Church at Canterbury, please see the May 1 post in list archives with subject line: Canterbury, Kent, ENG: Walloon Church & community. Hope this has helped to clear up some of the questions above. Andrea

The area of Leiden is one of the best documented areas as far as Huguenots/Walloons are concerned. Have you for example consulted the "Leiden Collection". This is a card index of such people and is available on film through the LDS. It covers the period 1500 - 1828 and the appropriate film number can be found by entering Leiden as the place and then church indexes. There are 10 printed pages of film references. There is also an interesting publication by the Nord Genealogie which lists alphabetically protestant marriages in the Leiden area. You would need to contact the - Groupement des Généalogique de la Région Nord-Flandre-Hainaut-Artois, BP62 - 59118 Wambrechies Cedex. It covers the period 1575 - 1710 and was published in 1976 and comprises 47 volumes. Should you require further sources please come back as there are so many it would take days to type them out. Roy Day ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter E. Wilson" <wewilson@owt.com> To: <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 9:05 PM Subject: [HWE] Symonson/Dutch-Walloon in 1600? | Listers: | | Moyses Symonson (Symons, Symonds, Simons, etc.) known in New England as the | "pilgrim" Moses Simmons came from Leiden, Holland, landing at Plymouth on | Nov. 9, 1621 in the ship, Fortune. Several early writers have concluded | that Moses Simmons (Symonson, etc.) was born to a Dutch/Walloon family in | Leiden and not originally part of the Puritan group that immigrated to | Leiden from England by way of Amsterdam. | | My questions to the list are two: | | 1) Does anyone have any info or is anyone researching this Dutch/Walloon | family? | | 2) Can anyone suggest a historical reference on the Walloons in and around | what is now Holland in the early 1600s? | | | -- W.E. Wilson | Richland, WA | | | | ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== | To unsubscribe (if you are in list mode), | type and send only the word unsubscribe to: | Huguenots-Walloons-Europe-L-request@rootsweb.com | | ============================== | Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases | http://www.ancestry.com/search | Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! |

Dear List members, I've joined because by DE LA TECHFORD may have been a French Protestant. Does that mean she would also have been Huguenot? So I am keenly awaiting the "D" list from the Threadneedle St. Church. Or do I have to wait for the "T"s? In any event, here are my names: 1 unknown SMITH --------------------------------------------- Spouse: Jessie Mary DE LA TECHFORD Children: Jessie Mary (ca1857-1918) 1.1 Jessie Mary SMITH --------------------------------------------- Birth: ca 1857, London, England Death: 2 Apr 1918, 7 Melville St, Dunedin. Burial: 4 Apr 1918, Southern Cemetery, Dunedin, New Zealand, #936 Reli: Anglican She (Jessie Mary SMITH ) may have been a talented pianist, according to Jessie MARSHALL (Wellington, 1996). Her father was described, on her death registration, as a piano-maker. Anne SMITH's letter of 3 April 1997, says, "Also, Mum said she had a very musical (great?) grandmother called Helen SMITH-have you found her? She was said to have a French connection-born there or some such." Is her mother, Jessie Mary De La Techford, the French connection? Research: Death reg. #1558 (Dunedin Southern Cemetery #936) See daughter Jessie's marriage registration in 1899, when Jessie Mary ELLIS was alive, and her middle name was given as Mary. Her father's first name is not given on her death registration, just her mother's, and her mother's maiden name. But her father's occupation was piano-maker. Spouse: Charles ELLIS Birth: ca 1851/1852, West Ham, Essex, England Death: 19 Jul 1913, 7 Melville St, Dunedin, NZ Father: Charles ELLIS Mother: Susanna SMITH Marr: 31 May 1873, London, England Children: Charles (1874-1972) Jessie (1876-1954) George (1878-1905) Walter (1881-1952) Alfred (ca1884-1894) Cheers, Denis Wederell, NZSG #10213, 6 Monaghan Avenue, Karori, Wellington 6005, New Zealand. Ph/fax +64 4 476 6432; e-mail <wederell@actrix.gen.nz> ___________________________________________________________________________ Rootsweb Sponsor ______________ Researching: Essex: JONES, NOBLE, MILLER, WEDERELL, London: CONEY, CRACROFT, DE LA TECHFORD, ELLIS, SMITH (bless their hearts), TWEMLOW, WILSON (upper crust only). Staffordshire: COTTERILL. Lancashire: NELSON. Northumberland/Yorkshire/Borders: BELL, HEATLEY, ROBERTSON, SELBIE. All Scotland: MONRO, SELBIE. N Ireland (Co Down): CAMPBELL. All England & (Southern) Ireland: RONALDS. Ireland: DINES/DYNES, McCULLY. Australia (mostly SA): GIL(L)MAN, MONRO (Tasmania), PACKER, POWER. ______________________________________________________________________________

I have quite a lot of information acquired over the years and I am sure this also applies to other people on the list. Would it not be a good idea to formulate this into an information sheet listing the material together with the contact name of the person prepared to carry out the search. This information could then be published at regular intervals for the benefit of any newcomers and also to keep everybody updated. This I feel would be of more use to members than for such information to be listed purely in the hope that at that time it is of interest to someone. For example I have a number of the quarto series published by the Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland, as well as a complete guide to Protestant records in France issued by the National Archives in Paris. This lists all known French records and their location. Roy Day

As a newcomer to the list I would like to introduce myself. I am Roy Day from Clevedon in Somerset England and I have been involved in family research for many years. I am a member of the GOONS (Guild of One Name Studies) and the name studied is LERPINIERE/LHERPINIERE which is my wife's maternal line. There are at present several trees containing the name including a mainly English branch who are of Huguenot descent - the remainder are all French based and mainly Catholic. The objective is to link all or as many of the trees as possible, As a result almost all of this research is carried out in France. At this stage I should mention that I neither speak nor write French. At present we are working in the 16th century and have still not made the link although I now believe it to be very close. Over the years I have managed to find other researchers in France to assist in this work and I also carry out reciprocal research for one or two French families with English roots. I mention the above to show that the language need not be a barrier and also to explain that because some people with a particular name are Huguenots it does not mean that this applies to all people with the same name. I am always ready to help any genuine enquiry and hold quite a lot of information but this will be enlarged apon in another mail. Roy Day.

Listers -- The following information is about the proposed demolition of the Vrouwekerk and other historic Huguenot sites in Leiden, Holland. I apologize for its length. However, I felt that passing on complete information was important. If you wish to write a letter or e-mail of concern about this situation, there are some suggestions listed in the article below. While it is true that the deadline for getting any such letters sent in has already passed (15 Oct), I am posting this anyway with the philosophy of "better late than never". The following article is from Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter (which is sponsored by Ancestry.com) and is copyright 2000 by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published here with the permission of the author. The article appeared on 7 October, 2000 in Vol. 5 No. 41. It was written on 19 September by Jeremy Dupertuis Bangs who is the Director of the Leiden American Pilgrim Museum. NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN PILGRIM SITES DEMOLITION PLANS: LEIDEN'S VROUWEKERK AND AALMARKT SITES November 7, 2000, has been set for the Council of State's hearing on the City of Leiden's intention to demolish the remains of the Vrouwekerk, the medieval church that was used by the Walloons (Huguenots) after the Reformation. Through its association with the families of Philip DELANO, Francis COOKE and his wife Hester MAYHEW, Edward BUMPAS and other Huguenots who became Pilgrims, this site symbolizes the confluence of two major streams in the history of persecution, refuge, religious freedom, and colonial migration - the English Separatists now called the Pilgrims and the French Calvinists known as the Huguenots. In addition to the Pilgrim connections, this is the church from which numerous families emigrated to New York and Guyana in 1622-24, led by Jesse DE FOREST........ In a new development, the Council of State has informed the parties in the case that they may submit new evidence and supporting materials up to two weeks before the date of the hearing. Thus it becomes possible for me to submit individual letters expressing support for my contention that the cultural and historical value of the Vrouwekerk ruin as an important symbol.......... justifies a decision to prevent demolition. I can also now include a copy of the petition which many people have signed, as evidence in this case. This new development is very encouraging and inspires hopes that the Council of State will recognize the value of preserving this ruin to commemorate an important link in the common histories of The Netherlands, Belgium, France, and America. Please send letters of support for preserving the Vrouwekerk to me before October 15. I will then submit them to the Council of State. My postal address is: Mandenmakerssteeg 11, 2311 ED Leiden, The Netherlands. My (new) e-mail address is: bangsflynn@cs.com. Thank you very much for your continued support in this effort. [Dispute details in the following sub-article:] AALMARKT DEVELOPMENTS Following discussions and decisions on the town's plans to regulate prostitution (only four brothels), which the central government has decriminalized as of October 1st, Leiden's Town Council debated the Aalmarkt demolition plans in its meeting last Tuesday, September 12, 2000. Despite eloquently expressed opposition to large-scale construction and to demolition of the historic sites in the Aalmarkt area, the coalition led by the Labor Party (PvdA), circumvented attempts by the opposition parties to require preservation of historic monuments as well as to require competitive bidding and plan proposals, thus retaining complete control of the development within the cabinet of the mayor and aldermen. After several months of further work on the drawing boards, that group intends to present a choice to the council of two development alternatives, both of which presuppose large-scale demolition to accomplish the amount of new floor-space for large stores that private investors want to build where numerous sixteenth and seventeenth-century houses and other historic monuments now stand. The cabinet of the mayor and alderman have expressed their entire confidence in the ability of the single private development company they have chosen (without competitive bidding) to achieve plans which will represent the best way to accomplish a profitable future for the city's selected investors and to provide employment to local contractors who traditionally support the Labor Party. The damaging effects on existing small businesses and the traffic chaos that can be foreseen are very sensitive to the fact that one of the major investors, AHOLD, has discovered that its American shoppers are unhappy that their money is going to a company that intends to participate in the destruction of an aspect of [history] are topics that were postponed by promising future clarification. Recent architectural surveys of the buildings prove that the hospital wing where Myles Standish recuperated from wounds is practically intact, with enough of its timber roof from 1571 still there to make complete restoration a real possibility. The cabinet, however, has explicitly retained the "right" to determine that such monuments will be demolished if it is otherwise impossible to achieve the financial goals of the property developer and the investors. In a public debate (Sept. 5) and at an open meeting of the town council's Commission on Urban Planning (Sept. 7), numerous groups hoping to improve the city through preserving its cultural and historic fabric echoed the pleas of the (essentially powerless) National Monument Service and spoke in favor of development without demolition. These groups included the Aalmarkt Foundation, The Leiden Cultural Platform, The Leiden Antiquarian Association "Oud Leiden", The Heritage Preservation Society "Heemschut", The Arent van 's-Gravezande Foundation for Architectural Heritage Preservation, and The Leiden American Pilgrim Museum. The public response is overwhelmingly in favor of preservation, and several speakers specifically pointed out the need to preserve places that serve to commemorate the city's role in the Pilgrim story, in addition to the widespread general concern that a few politicians and their friends, making decisions behind closed doors, are destroying irrevocably the city these citizens love. AHOLD is the Dutch holding company that owns STOP & SHOP, Giant-Landover, Giant-Carlisle, Tops Markets, BI-LO, and Pathmark Stores. Your letter to AHOLD will help in the preservation effort. Write to: Royal Ahold, P.O.Box 3050, 1500 HB Zaandem, The Netherlands or send an e-mail to : corp.communications@corp.ahold.nl. Another company interested in investing in this demolition is the Fortis Financial Group. They are included among the addresses to which all reports from the developer are sent. Their American offices can be contacted at:Fortis Investors Inc., P.O.Box 64284, St. Paul, MN 55164 or e-mail them at: financial@us.fortis.com. It is impossible to predict the outcome of this conflict between the interests of those with hopes for a future grounded in the reminders of a proud heritage and the interests of those searching to maximize profits in the short term. Your letters will count, now. Thank you, Jeremy Dupertuis Bangs END