Listers -- This is a response to Elaine <Scr1ptwr2ter@aol.com> who asked on 25 Feb if she could filter out all HWE messages which didn't have to do with her BOCQUET name and their Huguenot origins. (If you missed Elaine's post, it had subject line: Re: [HWE] Delete previous message(s) in replies -- which was not relevent to her message and was one I had used myself on another topic three days earlier.) Since I thought that there may be some Joe Bloggs out there (and, of course, his wife! <g>) wondering the same thing, here is the answer to Elaine's question. No, there is no way to filter out all those posts which you may not want to read because they are not about your particular surname. Of course, you can filter out some messages yourself by using the subject line as a guide and only opening ones which you think have relevence to you, based on that subject line. But subject lines can sometimes be misleading <g>. I personally feel it's never a waste of time to at least skim through the posts of others. Even if they are not about surnames or areas you are interested in, there is often a small nugget of information which may help you, lead you to new connections or to previously-unthought-of research directions. If you are a subscriber to a mailing list on a particular topic, like HWE, you will receive messages which are not about your particular surname of interest. That's just the way it is. If you want to receive only messages about the surname you are interested in, you can join a mailing list about that particular surname, if there is one. You can find mailing lists about surnames on the Rootsweb site at www.rootsweb.com. If there isn't a mailing list about your surname, you can contact Rootsweb and request to start one. But even on such a list, it is likely that other researchers, even though they are interested in the same surname, will have no interest or connection to Huguenots. So, all you Bloggses out there (and Elaine too <g>), you're stuck with HWE as it is. It's not a terribly busy list, you know, considering that our subscribers number about 345 at present. The vast majority never post at all. If you don't like receiving individual messages throughout the day, consider subscribing in digest mode so you will receive all list posts together in a group. Some people find list mail easier to handle in this way. An alternative way to handle the dilemma is to stay on the list for just a short time, making sure you leave a trace behind you before you unsubscribe, by doing the following -- * post to the list about your surname and your research. This will result in your information going into the list archives for others to find later and, hopefully, contact you. * request that your surname(s) and accompanying details be put on the HWE Surnames List on the website, again so others can find it in future and contact you. Hope these comments have helped others who may be feeling as Elaine does. My best to all, Andrea

Hello everyone -- This is a reply to Louise <swaffer@loujupp.freeserve.co.uk> who posted on 21 Feb re: surname SWAFFER in the area of Romney Marsh and Ashford (Kent, ENG) in the early 1800s. I would certainly agree with Roy (who posted in reply to Louise on 21 Feb) that the SWAFFER surname is one frequently found in East Kent. A less common variant is SWOFFER. By coincidence, both spellings of this surname happen to be familiar to me, not because I have a connection to it, but because someone with that surname married into my IDDENDEN line. There are no Huguenot connections that I know of (but one never knows about these things.....). Louise, if you contact me off-list, I can hopefully put you in touch with a couple of people who are researching SWAFFER/SWOFFER. I've even collected some SWAFFER surnames which I can share with you although I'm not sure the dates and location will be of any help. I would suggest a couple of things you can do in the meantime. Since you are only back to the early part of the 1800s, you need to obviously work on getting back farther. If you know where your Thomas was born (Ashford?), I suggest searching that parish and those surrounding it for clues about his family. People usually didn't move very far in those days. It's too bad that Thomas was born in 1835, just before civil registration started in England (1837) but if he had siblings born after 1837, their birth certficates would provide valuable information such as name of the father, his occupation, name of the mother including maiden name, and the family address. I would also suggest joining the Kent Family History Society (FHS) and also the KENT-ENG mailing list. Both are good ways to put out queries about your research and see if others are also researching the same surname. For example, the FHS publishes four journals a year and also a periodic Members' Interests Directory. I would be happy to provide you with information about it. You can subscribe to the Kent-ENG mailing list by sending the word "subscribe" in a message to either KENT-ENG-D-request@rootsweb.com (for digest mode) or to KENT-ENG-L-request@rootsweb.com (for list mode). You might also look in their list archives to see if anyone has posted about the SWAFFER surname in the past. Hope this has helped. Andrea

Dear Andrea, Thank you for the extract from Canterbury Cathedral. > 1721 Apr 10 James CLARIS & Mary VILLIERS is one of mine. Did you notice any entries for DERNOCOUR or GALMAR, by chance? Best Wishes Pamela in snowy NW Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Vogel" <andreav@island.net> To: <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 24 February 2001 19:46 Subject: [HWE] Marriages extracted > Canterbury Cathedral, Kent, ENG

I'm planning a trip (my first) to France/Germany (Alsace-Lorraine-Baden areas) this year. I would like help locating what a fellow researcher stated was a small village in this area (I think between Lyon & the Champaigne region), still named Flournois. I haven't found it on any map yet; but, as I recall, my correspondent stated it was little more than a big house and a very few smaller ones. With a computer crash, I've lost that communique. Any help much appreciated. I've traced my Flournois/Flournoy family (w/a lot of help from fellow researches distant relatives) back to this area in the late 1500's (Nicholas, father of Laurent). Laurent fled to Switzerland w/his wife, Gabrielle Mellin of Lyon. They had 2 sons born in Geneve: Gedeon & Jean. Gabrielle's father was killed in Lyon as a result of the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes, as I understand. My great grandmother was Elizabeth Julia Flournoy of Scott Co. KY, dau of Rev. David John Flournoy & Cassandra Conn. David John was a son of Mathews Flournoy, who was killed by Indians (aka Native Americans) during one of his horseback trips to VA & MD to bring back lead glass windows for his new home in Scott Co. KY, which he built next to Fort Flournoy. I visited here this past fall. Members of the Flournoy family lived in this distinctive house until the late 1950's. The house then went to ruin & was used as a cattle enclave for a while. It has since been purchased and historically restored to its 1850's spendor by a horse-breeding consortium. Some information might be obtained from the Georgetown Historical Society, should anyone else be interested. At the time of my visit I was told there had been about 6 - 8 visitors since the completion of the restoration in late 1999 - most of them, like me, were descendants or other relatives. Thank you. djstevenson

Subj: GEOFFROY, JEOFFROY, GEFFREY AND OTHER VARIATIONS 1568 TO Date: 2/25/01 3:58:07 PM Pacific Standard Time From: CGeoff8520 To: Bristol_and_Somerset-L@rootsweb.com This is to re-post my interest in the above surnames, plus other spelling variations. Specificaly,my great great grandfather, LOUIS GEOFFROY, supposedly of French Huguenot Origins, who was recruited from the West Country to go to Ireland to be a landsteward on the estates of the wealthy BOND family. This occurred sometime in the second half of the 18th Century. He had a least one son, James, born in County Longford, Ireland, in 1791. I would like to be able to connect LOUIS, with any of the following surname citations, which I have found and seek your help GEOFFROY, Jehan and Jacques, alien residents in London in 1568, from the Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland Quarto Series, Vol. X GEFFREY, CHARLES, Langebourne.Ward, parish of, St Marys Fanchurch, London January 1568. referred to as "...Frenchman, cook to Benedict Spinola, denizen merchant of Jeane" Source: Huguenot Society, Quarto Series, Vol X GEOFFROY, ELIZABETH, married Nicolas Brabins 16 August 1699, Brailsford, Derby. Source: IGI GEOFFROY, JACQUES,buried 8 January 1651, St Barthelmi, La Rochelle, France. Married three times and had a least 10 children. Source: World Connect Genealogy.rootsweb GEOFFROY, MARTHE wife of SAMUEL RAOULT of Sepuret, Poitou, France. They were parents of PIERRE RAOULT, who married MARIANNE LAURON in the French Episcopal Church in Bristol, England, on 14 January 1695 source: Quarto Series, Vol XX JAUFFR, JEANNE, married JEAN MAILLOU, 18 May 1722, in the Stonehouse French Episcopal Church in Devon. Source: Quarto Series Vol XX MAILLOUX, JEANNE MARIE baptized on 24 March 1723 in Stonehouse French Episcopal Church. She was daughter of JEAN MAILLOUX and JEANNE JAUFFROY. source: Quarto Series Vol XX JAUFFRAY, JEANNE, marriage to PIERRE RENAUD on January 29, 1721 in Stonehouse French Episcopal Church. Source: Quarto Series, Vol XX GEOFFROY, FRANCIS married to MARY ANNE PENFOLD, on 21 October 1833 Sudbury on Thames,London. Source: 1881 Census and IGI. Children were: 1. JEOFFROY, EDWARD FRANCIS,baptized 22 May 1836 at St. James, Westminister.. Married LOUISA DURANT, born l845 in Alton Hampshire, on March 2, 1862 at St James, Westminister. Resided at Peabody Square, 12 West Block in 1881. Occupation: Portmanteau maker. Children were" Fanny Isabel, bapl 15 May 1864 at St James Ellen F, born 1868 at Lambeth, Surrey Edward W, born 1874 at Westminister 2. GEOFFROY, FRANCIS LOUIS, baptized 10 February 1838 at St James JEOFFROY, SARAH, born 1835 London. Source: 1881 Census GEOFFROY, MARIA LOUISA, baptized 26 March 1838, St. Peters, Liverpool; daughter of ACHELIS AND MARY ANN GEOFFROY Source; IGI GEOFFROY, LOUIS, born Avignon, France, 1846. Occupation: diamond cutter who lived at 15 Draycott Terrace, London. 1881 Census JEOFFROY, LOUIS PORCHEY married JANE ROBINSON 17 September 1865 at St James, Westminister. IGI Their children were: Elizabeth Anne, baptized on 16 April 1874 at Saint Lukes, Westminister Isabel Mary, bapitzed on 16 April,1874,at Saint Lukes, Westminister JEOFFROY, WILLIAM married LOUISA ELIZABETH AMY. IGI Their children were: Elizabeth Amy, baptized 26 Sept. 1869 at St James Martha Isabella, baptized 12 June l872, at St Paul, Deptford, Kent JEOFFROY, SARAH MARIA baptized 17 August 11870 at St. Lukes, Westminster Mother: Sarah; Father: Francis Lewis IGI GEOFFROY, CESAR, married CATHERINE ANDERSON JOANNY, 22 June l873 at St James, Westminister IGI. I am also searching for the name CASSER, who may have been the wife or mother of my great, great grandfather LOUIS GEOFFROY Any information, hints or clues about any of these various people would be most helpful. Charles H Geoffroy Portland,

Roger Stange asked Feb. 2nd for GIRARD family in Magdeburg and wether they were Huguenots. Short answer is yes! I looked the name up in a book: Geschichte der franzoesischen Kolonie in Brandenburg-Preussen = Historie of the French colony in Brandenburg-Prussia, by Dr. Eduard MURET, printed in Berlin 1885 (all printed in Fraktur and of course in German). There must have been quite a lot of GIRARD families. The name is among the list of French colonists from 1700 in Magdeburg, the French colony there had 1282 members at that time. I also found GIRARDs in the name lists of Berlin, Burg in duchy of Magdeburg, Danzig (now Gdansk, Poland), Farankfurt/Oder, Stargard, Wesel and Schwedt. A Girard in Berlin was in silk business, another had to do with leather production, in the town of Bernau there was a judge with the name GIRARD. All this information are for the time around 1700. To find out more about the GIRARDs of Magdeburg, you have to look for the churchbooks of the FRENCH REFORMED CHURCH of that city. They were usually not members of the evangelical lutheran church or the German reformed church but had there own parish. The German Huguenot Society (Deutscher Hugenotten Verein) in Bad Karlshafen might have information were those churchbooks are kept today. I hope this is of some help. Ina Friling

Thank you Andrea, I read both the archives and the exceptional website and they both are very helpful. I also have four books on the subject in my reading stack so I will likely have more on this subject in time. Bob Fay Date forwarded: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:59:05 -0800 Send reply to: "Andrea Vogel" <andreav@island.net> From: "Andrea Vogel" <andreav@island.net> Date sent: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:09:08 -0800 Subject: [HWE] Archived info re: Cathars To: HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com Forwarded by: HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com Hello to all -- As a follow-up to questions from Bob <madgrad77@clsurf.com> on 21 Feb about the Cathars, there have been about a half-dozen previous posts on this subject, all about a year or so ago. They may be helpful to this discussion. To view these posts in the list archives, go to the website at http://www.island.net/~andreav/index.html where the archives can be accessed in The Basics section. Select the Searchable Archives, then type in keyword "Cathars" (making sure that the year 2000 is selected) to bring up those previous posts. One of them mentions a website where you can go for detailed information about Cathars. The URL is http://www.nullensc.dircon.co.uk/chh/1_1.htm. This website is called Catholics, Heretics and Heresy and it includes a section specifically about the Cathars. All for now. Andrea ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== When posting to the Huguenots-Walloons-Europe list: SURNAMES written in capitals, s'il vous plaît. Also, please specify dates and location, including country. ============================== Add as many as 10 Good Years To Your Life If you know how to reduce these risks. http://www.thirdage.com/health/wecare/hearthealth/index.html

Hello, fellow listers -- Well, first of all, this is a test message to see if the "scheduled downtime" by Rootsweb is ended. I suspect it's not because no Rootsweb messages have gotten through to me so far even though it's 11:45 am PST on 24 Feb (I happen to live in the same time zone as Rootsweb which is based in California even though I am farther north and, of course, in another country). As you may recall, the downtime was supposed to end today around 8 am PST. OK then, let's carry on regardless. What else can we do? Here follows a list of marriages I extracted from an LDS computer printout of the records of the Cathedral at Canterbury, Kent, ENG, dating between 1583 and 1878. This printout is on two fiche # 6906421-6906422. I have extracted only those names which were familiar to me either in my own research or from posts on this list. If any of the following entries interest you, I suggest checking the original records yourself to verify. Hope this helps someone out there. Andrea 1660 Jne 7 Anne CROW & Thomas Hetherington Note: CROW possibly an anglicization of DUCRO. 1689 Jne 11 Richard ARGAR & Mary Down Note: there were also two AUCHER entries here which I did not extract although I can do so if requested. 1700 Oct 13 Henry DEWARD & Elizabeth OLIVE 1701 Jly 15 Elizabeth DALLY & John Smith 1712 Nov 24 Abraham DUCRO & Mary OLIVE 1721 Apr 10 James CLARIS & Mary VILLIERS 1721 May 30 Abigail SIX & Robert Ellis 1727 Jan 29 Sarah BUBBARS & John Corne 1728 Apr 16 Abraham BUBBARS & Rebekah Long 1729 Nov 27 Stephen SIX & Ann Colf 1730 Dec 9 John BLANCHA & Elizabeth TIVESANE Note: I am wondering if TIVESANE was a transcription error in this printout and should be TIVELANE (ie. TEVELEIN, etc.?) 1735 Sep 9 Elizabeth CLARABUTT & George Newman 1746 Sep 28 Thomas BRAZIER & Elizabeth Booker 1751 May 28 Elizabeth BRAZIER & Robert Ladd 1754 Jne 23 Isaac BLANCHER & Dorothy Beverton 1756 Jne 27 Jacob BLANCHAR & Judith CHARROSSIN 1767 Aug 6 Sarah BLANCHARD & John Norris 1773 Oct 26 Robert LE GEYT & Anna Maria Chandler 1801 Jne 19 Mary TEVELEIN & George Norley 1834 Apt 7 Josiah FEDARB & Grace Avice Pursey END

Dear Andrea, It may sound selfish but I will take the risk to say that I am only interested in the name BOCQUET vis-a-vis Huguenot origins etc. Please can you tell me how I can stop Joe Bloggs and his wife filling my e-mail address with their queries etc.? Elaine

Hello Roy, I live near Alkmaar and know several people there. I might be able to do some research and if readable translate your record. Send me your attachment. Ciao and greetings, Lex Bennink Lookjng for Massé, De Lattre, Le Queler, Le Marechal, Chailloleau ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Roy Day" <royday@dial.pipex.com> Aan: <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2001 12:12 Onderwerp: [HWE] The Leiden Collection - a true story | I have always suggested to people with interests in North East France/ Low | Countries to search the above as it is a vast collection and it would be | surprising not to find the name you are searching. | | Having no links with the area I decided recently to do as I preach and | searched the L's for any mention of the name LERPINIERE which I am | researching. Why should there be I asked myself as they have no connection | with the area - at least that is what I thought. | | What did I find but a Marie LERPINIERE who was one of the family that | supposedly fled to Switzerland but I had been unable to trace. She was | attending a French school at Alkmaar, which is north of Amsterdam but I am | unsure in what capacity. My questions therefore are. | | 1. Does anybody have any knowledge of this part of Holland and the school | in particular. The period is 1702 - 1719. | | 2. The record is in Dutch and there is one word I cannot read/translate - | can anybody assist as it is the one word that will explain, I hope, what she | was doing at the school. I can send a scanned attachment to anybody that | might be able to assist. | | I have also requested a copy of the filmed records, via the LDS, of the | local reform church to see if this reveals further information. | | The lesson to be learned, sorry about the pun, is try any source available | as you never know the unexpected may happen. It certainly did for me. | | Roy. | | ______________________________

Its a matter of location to some degree (but not the full explanation). In the south of France particularly there was a history of religious dissent going back to the Cathars. The Huguenots of the area known as the Camisards kept up their opposition to religious oppression right into the mid 1700s where in the rest of the country, many had either emigrated or conformed to the RC faith. Walloons were protestants in the north in the "Low Countries" which were for years controlled by Spain. Many Walloons had left for England prior to the main Huguenot diaspora. Shirley Arabin from Mount Maunganui Say yes to Question 42 on Census night for retaining the forms and opening them in 100 years. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert W Fay" <madgrad77@clsurf.com> To: <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2001 13:46 Subject: [HWE] French Religous History Question > Does anyone know if there is any theological or other connection between the > Walloons and Huguenots that are the basis for the continuing discussion here and the > Cathars of Languedoc and their so called Albigensian heresy that was punished > severely by Benedictine Inquisitors in the fourteenth century. > > It would seem my Fay family line was on the persecuted side of both of these conflicts > and it would seem likely that other families were as well. Thus, my question: Is there > some kind of a connection? > > Thanks, > Bob Fay > > ______________________________

There are Reels who married some of my Keever cousins in NC !! I wonder if they were migrating around together. My Mennonite ancestors did that.....I'm having a small world moment...<grin> Malinda Jones Katherine Ricker wrote: > If you will go to this site and click on the Palatine-Swiss button, you will see several pages of information about the migration of this brave--but ever-suffering--group from the Palatinate to the Netherlands to England and, finally, to North Carolina. > > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/craven/ > > I am a direct descendant of the Millers/Muellers, Ipocks (Eibachs) and Reels. > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > Announcing new web site for Huguenots-Walloons-Europe list! > Lots of information, links to other sites, surnames list! > Visit the web site at: http://www.island.net/~andreav/index.html > > ============================== > Add as many as 10 Good Years To Your Life > If you know how to reduce these risks. > http://www.thirdage.com/health/wecare/hearthealth/index.html

Hello to all -- As a follow-up to questions from Bob <madgrad77@clsurf.com> on 21 Feb about the Cathars, there have been about a half-dozen previous posts on this subject, all about a year or so ago. They may be helpful to this discussion. To view these posts in the list archives, go to the website at http://www.island.net/~andreav/index.html where the archives can be accessed in The Basics section. Select the Searchable Archives, then type in keyword "Cathars" (making sure that the year 2000 is selected) to bring up those previous posts. One of them mentions a website where you can go for detailed information about Cathars. The URL is http://www.nullensc.dircon.co.uk/chh/1_1.htm. This website is called Catholics, Heretics and Heresy and it includes a section specifically about the Cathars. All for now. Andrea

Listers -- Here's an update on the scheduled downtime announced by Rootsweb which I posted about earlier today. (That message is in the list archives, in case you missed it.) I have now learned from the Rootsweb Listmaster that the expected duration of this downtime is "around 24 hours". So, this means that no messages will be posted on the HWE list (or any other Rootsweb list) for about a day beginning on Friday 23 Feb at 8 am PST (Pacific Standard Time) -- that's 4 pm GMT (Greenwich Mean Time). I am hoping that this does not take longer than the anticipated 24 hours. (Remember the threaded archives problem a few months ago and how long that took to fix?). I also have no idea how we are supposed to know when the "downtime" is officially over, or whether things are on schedule or not. All I can suggest is that listers send posts as they would normally do and, once the downtime is over, messages should start appearing on the list once again. OK, everybody, you've got a whole day off! Keep fingers crossed that all is back to normal on Saturday, 24 Feb. Andrea

Hello Roy, If I can be of any assistance, just let me know. I am a native Dutch speaker (living in Flanders, Belgium). Regards, Johan@Berteloot.NET -----Original Message----- From: Roy Day <royday@dial.pipex.com> To: HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com <HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: woensdag 21 februari 2001 12:12 Subject: [HWE] The Leiden Collection - a true story >I have always suggested to people with interests in North East France/ Low >Countries to search the above as it is a vast collection and it would be >surprising not to find the name you are searching. > >Having no links with the area I decided recently to do as I preach and >searched the L's for any mention of the name LERPINIERE which I am >researching. Why should there be I asked myself as they have no connection >with the area - at least that is what I thought. > >What did I find but a Marie LERPINIERE who was one of the family that >supposedly fled to Switzerland but I had been unable to trace. She was >attending a French school at Alkmaar, which is north of Amsterdam but I am >unsure in what capacity. My questions therefore are. > >1. Does anybody have any knowledge of this part of Holland and the school >in particular. The period is 1702 - 1719. > >2. The record is in Dutch and there is one word I cannot read/translate - >can anybody assist as it is the one word that will explain, I hope, what she >was doing at the school. I can send a scanned attachment to anybody that >might be able to assist. > >I have also requested a copy of the filmed records, via the LDS, of the >local reform church to see if this reveals further information. > >The lesson to be learned, sorry about the pun, is try any source available >as you never know the unexpected may happen. It certainly did for me. > >Roy. > >______________________________

Hello List, Is anyone else having troublegetting into the GENDEX index ? In spite of the amended URL I still keep going around in circles and can't even reach the webmaster to tell her/him. Thanks for any help, Kaye Cole in Melbourne Andrea Vogel wrote: > Listers -- if anyone has tried the URL for the GENDEX Search Engine

Here are some websites that might be helpful...malinda jones http://www.wallonie.com/wallang/ http://www.remmick.org/Palatinate/Page1.html

If you will go to this site and click on the Palatine-Swiss button, you will see several pages of information about the migration of this brave--but ever-suffering--group from the Palatinate to the Netherlands to England and, finally, to North Carolina. http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/craven/ I am a direct descendant of the Millers/Muellers, Ipocks (Eibachs) and Reels.

I would like to highly recommend two sites on Ancestry.com which are free today. Try Early UK and US Directories 1680-1830. There were 103 entries for LUCADOU in Great Britain and a list of their business addresses. The second is also at Ancestry.com and discusses birth, marriage and death records in Great Britain since 1837. Try it also. Carolyn Lucado Griffin (Jean LUCADOU came from England to America in 1700 to Manakintowne, VA. The Huguenot/Walloon family originated in the Castres region of France and moved to Amsterdam and then throughout Europe.)

Hello to all - This may sound familiar -- very very familiar -- to some of you who have been on the list for a while but I am afraid I must say it (again <g>) anyway. Here goes. Please <snip> off or delete any previous message(s) to which you are replying and which may be attached to the beginning or (usually) the end of your own message. It is unnecessary to include a whole previous message in this manner because it has already been on the list at least once before. And is, therefore, already in the list archives at least once. If you are replying to a previous post, put a sentence or two at the beginning of your own message which indicates what you are replying to (topic, sender and date of previous post). This can be done by saying, for example, something like: "I am responding to the message from (name) on (date) who posted about (topic)." Alternatively, you can include a short <snip> (segment) of the previous post (eg. a sentence or two) which lets others know what you are replying to. This is particularly important if more than a day or so has gone by since the original message was posted. If anyone then wants to see the entire original post, they can check in the list archives. I would so much appreciate everyone's cooperation in this. From your list concierge, Andrea