Dear Peter, I want to thank you very much for all the good articles you put in this list to make us understand history better - and this last one was very good! Together with my husband I spent a few days in the Thierache a part of Picardie-France this summer, to visit the places of origin of some of my huguenot ancestors. It is about half-way from Brussels to Paris, towns in the area are Hirson and Vervins - Laon with a big cathedral is about 40km southwest. It was very interesting to see the "fortified churches" in some of the villages. Between 1550 and 1650 the villagers were so fed up with the constant wars and ravaging, they turned their churches into castles. With a big west tower and small towers at the four corners. These churches served as refuge and also could be defended by armed people in the towers. They had water supply and places to cook meals. Jeantes, the village were my Guillaume FOUQUET came from, has such a church and Cuiry-les-Iviers, where his wife Susanne FIERET was born as well . We also took pictures of such church-castles in La Bouteille, Plomion and Morgny. I bought a booklet about the fortified churches to find out wether those places were fortified by the huguenots, but it didn't tell anything about it, just said …many wars etc.. I remember that the Edict of Nantes had something about the right to have fortified places. If the only reason was the constant wars so why do about 70 villages have such church-castles but hundreds of others in the area don't have them? My almost complete lack of French-language-knowledge kept me from asking to many questions. But maybe one of our listmembers knows more about it. In or around the villages we visited we found the family names (Fouquet, Le Fevre, Le Brun, Maillefert ) still existing - at least on old gravestones. I'm still working on the pictures but hope to add them to my webpages soon. Ina Jonas-Nolte

This may not mean much, however it is supposedly a list of some of the parishes around Breslau Breslau-Stadt 1 (town) --------------------- Breslau/11000 Jungfr. Breslau-Brockau Breslau/Erlöser Breslau/Erlöserkirche Breslau/G.Adolf-Ged. Breslau/Johannes Breslau-Klettendorf Breslau/Königin Luise Breslau/Luther Breslau/Paulus Breslau/St.Barbara Breslau/St.Bernhardin Breslau/St.Elisabeth Breslau/St.Maria Magd. Breslau/St.Salvator Breslau/St.Trinitatis Breslau/Z. Liebe Gottes Breslau/Hofkirche Breslau-Land (area) ---------------- Breslau-Herrnprotsch Breslau-Schwoitsch Breslau-Swoitsch Domslau Gnichwitz Groß-Nädlitz Herrmannsdorf Rankau Rothsürben Schmolz Sillmenau Wiltschau Wirrwitz Then there is this little find which you may have already tried. Go to the FamilyHistory Library Catalog at - http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp Click on Place Search, then do a search for Breslau, Schlesien Click on Germany, Preu en, Schlesien, Breslau Click on Church Records Or this site http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SCI/sil-e.html The town of Breslau appears to get a mention in this article and is associated with Protestanism. http://assets.cambridge.org/052155361X/sample/052155361Xweb.pdf Hopefully someone will have a more definitive reply to you question. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Ina Jonas-Nolte has raised the question of fortified churches. Does anyone have any input as to why these churches set up as fortresses ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello Fellows and Fellowettes, Some time ago I was reading an article by A.A. Tilley, nice man who at the time was a Fellow of Kings College. Prior to that I have always had an interest in the Estates General, which eventually would become the National Assembley. I hope that some of our subscribers have also had the good fortune to be able to peruse some of the archived material of the Estates General with a particular interest of their doings during the Huguenot times. Now we all have some knowledge of the trials and tribulations of our own ancestors and so I would say that is our main interest. Being interested in the historical aspect of those times can actually shed some light on our own interests. The archives and works by such people as Tilley and others has raised some questions for me concerning just what the Reformation was about and just who may have been behind much of it. Now I imagine some subscribers will immediately jump up and say that the Reformation was all about Religion and suppression and denial of mans rights to practice their religious faith and that was it. Well, I would like to suggest that this ferver for religious reform was not actually what the years of war and suppression were all about in total. We have debated previously just who may have begun much of the reform movement and there have been thousands of words to support this debate. And that is the fun of historical research. It can change at any given moment upon the discovery of as yet unread, original texts. Many of us will feel comfortable with Erasmus' "Praise of Folly" or Brants' "Ship of Fools". Both works became enormously popular with those who were able to read. Contained in these works are some fascinating thought processes, some of which are simply wishful thinking while other sections are the stuff of truth. The beginnings are a blur of names, however, it would not be a stretch to say that when Louis XII met with Pope Julius II things really did get underway. Louis who was always influenced by current opinion, allowed a play to be performed which lay ridicule on the Pope. The Pope was not amused. Louis was also quite interested in the wealth, power and influence of some very worldly Bishops. These, as some refer to them as, immoral Bishops and noble families, really did fancy their own chances at ultimate power. Now Louis had met with a small financial problem in raising the ransom required for his sons. His aides approached these worldly clergy of the Assembley of Notables who convened and within moments 1.3 million livres is donated directly into the Kings bank account. Seperation of church and state, not likely ? Why would I suggest something scandalous going on in this transaction ? Well, it seems that these caring and sharing Caholic clergy made a small proviso. Louis was to take care of the small matter of putting down the Lutheran unrest. And so began the trials of heresy. Guilty, burned at the stake. Life as a defense avocat was rather hellish during this period. In 1533 the new King, Francis I meets with Pope Clement. The new King had up til now been mellow toward the Lutherans but following the meeting it was back to the heresy trials and stake burning. The year is 1534 and by Christmas some 300 to 400 Lutherans are banged up in prison. and Paris by Light had a very different meaning in that year. Many of our ancestors being burned at the stake, often provided the "Light". Not a welcome sight for the unwary tourist on their first visit to Paris. Enter one Jean Cauvin, newly arrived back to France from Geneva. His discourse is read by Nicolas Cop, the newly appointed head of Theology at the Sorbonne. 50 Lutherans are dead or imprisoned within a week of the reading after the King announces that he be rid of this accursed heretic Lutheran sect. Lets skip a few pages of information for now and get to the basis of my proposal. The story of those charming people from the Guise and Montmorency family is a sordid tale of greed, influence, politics and wealth. Many things aoccur and many die on both sides with Edicts being issued almost monthly. The Edict of Nantes was really only one of many, some would have far more effect on the Huguenots than that one. So lets jump to Charles IX or more importantly his Regent Navarre. Things turned for the better by 1561 as the two main characters were rather partial to the Lutheran, or by now the Huguenot, ideals and requests for religious tolerance. The Edict of July 31, 1562 actually had a part concerning the stoppage of prosecutions for relgion and no longer to cause a disturbance. The meeting of Estates General of August 1562 is where I am really heading, as I believe that it indicates that not all of this was about religious freedom. In short, the Estates General looked at three proposals, one of which was the nationalization of church property. As France was heavily in debt such a deal would have been good for the country. The consternation of the well healed Catholic Bishops and their supporters, the delightful Guise family, can only be imagined. A quick meeting behind closed doors, a deal is struck, the state recieves, via the King, 16 million livres to be paid over the next 10 years. The proposal was quashed. Sunday in Paris became synonymous for protest and death, while Huguenot massacres became prevalent throughout France. There are no know records of all those who fled, as there are no known records of all those who died on French soil during those years. And for what purpose ? Was it the political ideals of those who were not French ? Was it for the voices of some evangelists who thought they were above all others in religious faith ? Or was it simply about money and control of emerging business and power over both church and state ? Unfortunately seperation of church and state would not happen easily and so power and wealth would influence religious thought in France for many centuries to come. This is an abridged version of a paper being written for our family project. Much has been omitted, but perhaps it will enlightend some of us as to what was actually happening or indeed it may offer a different thought as to just what the Huguenot years were all about in France. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

> I forwarded Luc's message to Dave Hedges who is part of the Durand Group who > are exploring the caves at Vimy and Arras. He replied with an attachment so > I have retyped his message. > > "There are medieval caves under Arras near Vimy but these are all chalk. > There is no sandstone in the Vimy area. The WW1 tunnels at Vimy were all > constructed in WW1 and are not medieval, although it is likely there are > medieval caves in Vimy village itself. (they would typically be near the > church). However, your comment sparked a memory because in a medieval cave > under Arras that was turned into a military hospital in WW1 there is a wall > carving a local historian, knowledgeable on the Huguenots, commented might > be their work" He attached a photo which was not clear enough to see 'a > chalice'. > Shirley Arabin > Mount Maunganui, New Zealand . > > >

Hello Group one and all, Have you ever wodered what family projects actually write about when they do decide to record for posterity the history of the clan ? I have given some thought and argued the case that perhaps it may assist someone who has often wish to begin writing, but for whatever reason such a task has not quite begun. Well, no, I am unable to post all 30 chapters writen to date of our clan, but I did manage to entice cousin JP, the Huguenot researcher of our lot, to allow some of his notes for publication. He has asked not to ridicule. Now I assume that he is historically correct however if you find that he is not, then now is your chance to correct another family's history. The "notes" as best as I can translate, are found below :- Leroy-Huguenot Years "Our Huguenot ancestors of the early 14th century and 15th century, had by now decided that money, land and legal study was all very fine, but as some of their ancestors had been busy studying theology with some success, it was time to try that line of occupation one more time. Jacques, who had been a cardinal over in Bourges for sometime, came to visit his cousins in St Malo. Cousin Pierre was not one to mince words and was often known to make comment regarding the need for the Catholic church to become a little more flexible with doctrine. As Pierre pointed out, the family had contributed greatly to the church lands and wealth over the last 300 years, maybe it was time for the church to send a few trinkets our way. Whatever the conversation with cousin Jacques, Pierre was not impressed and had already decided to head off to the Sorbonne to study theology. Hearing Cauvin (Calvin) rant and rave there, gave Pierre some new thoughts as he actually agreed with this young lawyer from Geneva. With Pierre Leroy now very much a supporter of the new Reform movement and the also new 'Calvinist' movement, he became a member of one of the 2000 Calvinist churches that dotted northern France by 1561. There came a time to decide what the future of his immediate family was to be. The Huguenots were by now a very strong political faction and were beginning to influence the court of the King, which was not appreciated by the Catholic church one little bit. Persecution and some very heavy means were brought to bear on these new Reformers. So much so, that Pierre, after discussion with his extended family, took to the English channel with all that could be loaded on a small boat. He and his family made their way to London and found suitable lodgings and took up the religion with purpose, worshipping in the crypt of Canterbury Cathedral which had earlier been assigned for these new 'Protesters". The remainder of the family stood firm in Bretagne and Normandie and would take part in the eight civil wars against the Catholics until 1598. Henry IV signed the Edict of Nantes and all seemed to settle for a time. Across the channel while these wars were happening, Pierre and his children were not having it all their own way. The Walloons who had arrived from the region east of Calais actually spoke a slightly different language (Romand), had slightly differing views on Calvinism and were mostly canal diggers. The Huguenots, from Haute Normandie in general, were merchants, silk weavers, linen and velvet manufacturers and so the areas of Southampton, Kent and Wiltshire were settled. Some will have you believe that these Huguenots were always godly folk. Pirating of the Spanish fleet off Southampton was not considered evil, they were Catholics after all. Queen Elizabeth was not so happy with this pirating of her baubles as she had her own pirates to take care of that. And so with the plague of 1583 thinning the French Church of numbers, the Queen wanting them to move away from the coast and then a second round of plague in 1604, the Huguenots began to move en masse to the midland counties, only to come up against the local 'Fens" who didn't want more French folks taking their jobs and also the Walloons who were doing very nicely in this area. Those Huguenots who remained in Southampton after 1604 did manage to prosper and develop larger congregations although this expansion was slow. Our little family had divided and either married to a very comfortable family in Wiltshire or moved on up to Cambridgeshire. The move north by these ancestors was worthwhile, supported by the French Church of London all seemed wonderful until 1685, when the London Church decided to move even more Huguenots north to increase the numbers of Reformers in the area. The Walloons, who were by now well established, were not happy. They spoke a different language, their pastors were from the Netherlands and took offense to these new French speaking pastors trying to give orders. So much turmoil that eventually it turned into a heated conflict at Norwich. All of this was too much for our ancestors who had longed for far off France, it was "home" afterall. And so in 1690 the long trek by way of Belgium and Basse Normandie began. It had been 140 years since this line had been in Normandie and it was time to return" J-P Leroy - Manche (50), Normandie No he does not write as a historian but does tell ya good yarn which is based on fact. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

I have been in the tunnels at Vimy Ridge used by the Canadians in WW1. I have just contacted a member of the Western Front Association who has done a lot of research on the tunnels in that part of France including the tunnels dug by the NZ Tunnelling Company under Arras which linked the caverns from which chalk had been extracted in medieval times. Shirley Arabin Mount Maunganui, New Zealand . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 4 August 2003 15:39 Subject: [HWE] Vimy huguenots > Searching in a guide book on the north of France , I found out that the sandstone tunnels at the Vimy battlefield were used by Huguenots hiding in 16th and 17th centuries. Luc > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > Have you submitted your surnames for our list web site? > To do so will make your names accessible to others on the Web. > For more info, contact Andrea (list admin)at [email protected] > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Carol No nothing about the Fenland Drainage people. It is ONLY a return of Strangers in London, which at that time was effectively the City, a few surrounding parishes especially towards the west and Westminster, a couple of places south of the Thames and one or two peculiar areas (don't ask). Regards Tony Fuller

Hi Guys Shirley, I'm not sure whether either is better than the other, they both provide 50% different things. The only comparison that I can make is between the Durrant Cooper copies and as they are both in Adobe Acrobat format there is little to choose between them. That said, Mike's CD is not quite as clear as the FHS copy, which seems to have been copied using a more subtle process which takes out page discolouration. Something about paying your money and making your choice .... Regards Tony Fuller

Hi Guys I've received Mike Gallafent's CD and compared it to the other Huguenot/Stranger CDRoms that I have. One of Mike's pieces is duplicated on the Family History Shop CD, viz. Durrant Cooper. However, the 1567 List of Strangers in London is new and, even better, it has a new index on a spread sheet giving 3275 names taken from the article which originally appeared in the 1897/8 Genealogical Magazine. AND, it is even more interesting in that the list of Strangers predates that list published by the Hug Soc in 1985 in the Quarto Series which starts at 1593. Right, now to look at it in more detail Regards Tony Fuller

Sandstone was used for construction in northern France , the british and canadian miltary engineers decided to continue those tunnels under German lines . Luc ----- Original Message -----

Searching in a guide book on the north of France , I found out that the sandstone tunnels at the Vimy battlefield were used by Huguenots hiding in 16th and 17th centuries. Luc

Hmm ok I will ask. The tunnels were used for what purpose, Luc ? > Searching in a guide book on the north of France , I > found out that the sandstone tunnels at the Vimy > battlefield were used by Huguenots hiding in 16th and > 17th centuries. Luc

Hello Fellow Listers, Ever wondered about how the Gutenberg bible was printed ? http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/permanent/gutenberg/ Someone might be interested. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

The BOURBON-Condé family was mostly protestant till Henri II it seems. From what I read the best book on the battles and the armies of the times is James B. Wood: "The King's Army: Warfare,Soldiers and Society during the Wars of Religion in France,1562-1576, Cambridge U press 1996. Luc

As a follow up to e-mails recently exchanged on this list between Bill Pintard and me I want to share some additonal findings for the Pintard family, which I took from film 01999909 of the Familiy History Library at Salt Lake City (all Pintards extracted). The film is sometimes of poor quality and not all names were clearly readable. The grammar is sometimes strange, since the data didn't always fit the preprinted formulars. The data includes an Isabeau from St. Roman (b. abt. 1673) as well as a Suzanne from the same place (b. abt. 1668). This seems to fit with the information given by Bill Pintard in his e-mails of 22nd November 2002 and 13th July 2003. Apparently the source is the same. Markus Röhling, Berlin The data: Inhumé à Hameln au cimetière des Réformés le 10 Octobre 1693 Pintarde Isabeau, de St. Roman, âgé de 20 ans. Mariés au temple de Hameln le 14 Janvier 1694 Pintarde, Susanne de St. Roman et Mélares, Jean de Privats. Reçu membre de l'Eglise de Amsterdam le 1694 5 Decembre Pintard Françoise par témoignage de l'église [empty space]. Sortie à ? Inhumá à Hameln au cimetière des Réformés le 6 Juillet 1696 Pintard Susanne femme de Jean Melary âge de 28 ans. Baptisé à Magdebourg le 25 octobre 1698 François Pintar, fils de Thimoté Pintar, serger, orig. de Montpellier, et de Jeanne Cartaud sa femme, orig. du Bourduisan en Dauphiné. Baptisé à Berlin le 4 Mars 1701, né le 1 Mars 1701 Etienne Jean Pintard, fils de Thimothée, Etaminier, orig. de Montpellier, et de Jeanne Carraut s.f., orig. de Chatillon, Dauph. Devenu membre à Bois-le-Duc le 4 Septembre 1701 Pintar, Jean. Décédé à Berlin le 6 Avril 1703 Estienne Jean Pintar, 3 ans, mari, femme[!] de Languedoc, Dauphiné, fils de Thimothée et Jeanne Martin[!]. Pintard, Marc, Sept. 1703, Faiseur de bas, 29 ans, d'Orange à Genève. 1705, Pintar Francoise voyez Pinot. Mariés à Berlin le 23 Juin 1705, Halle, Marc Pintard, nat. de Sevennes, fils de défunts François et Marguérite [...], et Jeanne Etienne Junier, fille de Pierre et Françoise Roque. Ontvangen voor het regt op het trouwen te Amsterdam den 8 Mei 1709 Pintaar Gabriel en Garde Siville. Mariés à Amsterdam le 26 Mei 1709 Pintart Gabriel et Gaudy Debiele[?]. Baptisé à Berlin le 27 Novembre 1713 né le 24 Novembre 1713 David Pintard fils posthume de Marc, la Salle Sevennes, et de Jeanne Etienne Junier s veuve Nions Berne. Décédé à Berlin le 12 Avril 1714 David Pintar, 5 mois, fils de def. Marc et Jeanne Etienne Gincé[!]. Inhumé à Amsterdam le 13 Maart 1735 Pintar Francoise, [...] David Bereaux[?]. Ontvangen op het regt op het begraven te Amsterdam den 18 Maart 1735 in klasse van f. 6 voor het lijk van Pintar Françoise.

Hello Fellow Listers, That most famous of subscribers, Luc, has inspired me by way of offering information on the family de Conde. Now I know we perhaps should not mention that family. As Luc has said, very Catholic are those folks. But balance in all things is good. If any historians of that de Conde family happen to be subscribers, I am sure Luc would like to see your thoughts in this list. Well, at least say hi to Luc here and see where it goes. Now inspiration is one thing, action is yet another. And so I seek some advice from any subscribers. I am looking for a book, perhaps several, as I wish to understand both sides of the Battle of Jarnac. Yes, one of the heroic deeds, spoken of some time ago in this very list. I shall not dwell on that as the topic did have some up in arms. And so; a name, and author would be handy, of books that accurately portray the events leading to , during and after Jarnac. And just to show my almost unbiased thought patterns, perhaps one or two from Catholic authors and a similar number by Huguenot authors. Anyone wish to offer some sources ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

After a gap, I have rejoined this list and would like to say hello again to everybody. I have a query and would be most grateful for any advice. I am researching the name COULDERY. I have not found this name in the Tesmoinages and do not have any concrete indication that this is a Huguenot name. However, my cousin has told me that he remembers an elderly "Aunt" and the women on her side of the family being lace makers. They produced intricate lace runners with beads. These crafts of french polishing and lace making are supposed to have come from the Hugenot side of the family which settled in Spitalgate in the 1790s. I have indeed traced the name COULDERY back to the 1790s in St. Giles, Cripplegate, London and have come to a halt. I now think I might have to look at name variants such as Coldery, Cordery, Cowldrey, etc. and any number of such variations. I have subsequently discovered that there are many with these variant names in the Berkshire and Buckinghamshire area, and I understand that there was a tradition of Huguenot immigration and lace-making in Berkshire possible back to the 1500s. It therefore occurs to me that perhaps they were part of an earlier movement prior to the major immigration after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and that perhaps there is still a Huguenot connection but that it is back to the 1500/1600 period. Would anybody know of any possible leads that I could follow to see if there is such a connection? Kind Regards and Best Wishes to all Helen, West Sussex, UK

I have questions along this same line, wondering where to find pre 1700's info. With so many specialized sites, does anyone know of a site, Huguenot or not (funny rhyme?) that specializes in this period? If there isn't one already where would be the best place/site to set one up? Thanks, Giselle -----Original Message----- From: Helen Carlisle [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [HWE] Fw: Huguenots in Berkshire????? After a gap, I have rejoined this list and would like to say hello again to everybody. I have a query and would be most grateful for any advice. I am researching the name COULDERY. I have not found this name in the Tesmoinages and do not have any concrete indication that this is a Huguenot name. However, my cousin has told me that he remembers an elderly "Aunt" and the women on her side of the family being lace makers. They produced intricate lace runners with beads. These crafts of french polishing and lace making are supposed to have come from the Hugenot side of the family which settled in Spitalgate in the 1790s. I have indeed traced the name COULDERY back to the 1790s in St. Giles, Cripplegate, London and have come to a halt. I now think I might have to look at name variants such as Coldery, Cordery, Cowldrey, etc. and any number of such variations. I have subsequently discovered that there are many with these variant names in the Berkshire and Buckinghamshire area, and I understand that there was a tradition of Huguenot immigration and lace-making in Berkshire possible back to the 1500s. It therefore occurs to me that perhaps they were part of an earlier movement prior to the major immigration after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and that perhaps there is still a Huguenot connection but that it is back to the 1500/1600 period. Would anybody know of any possible leads that I could follow to see if there is such a connection? Kind Regards and Best Wishes to all Helen, West Sussex, UK ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== Not sure how to post a message to the list? Instructions are on list website at: http://www.island.net/~andreav/post.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you are looking for, but there was (still is, according to guidebooks) a very large mansion in the Baton Rouge area of Louisiana called "Embry Vale". It is in what was then Feliciana Parish, which broke into about five parishes -- I think its now either East Feliciana Parish or West Feliciana Parish that it is in. The area is in what was called West Florida and there was a mini-revolution for a few weeks after the Louisiana purchase, about whether people there were West Floridian's or Louisianan's. Anything called "Embry Vale" must have had an Embry or two somewhere in its background. I came across this when I looking at Louisiana land records to figure out the extent of an apparently large sugar plantation owned (between about 1840 and 1870), by Benjamin Bond (or Brown) Nesom, one of my ancestors. The land holdings appear to take in Embry Vale from what I can tell from the maps. I think there is still the old plantation house, which may be open for tourists, and there is an Embry Vale golf club that is beautiful. If you are interested, I can point you to a couple of sites and supply you with some information on the Nesom's, who included Kirby's, Yelvington's, Loper's and tons of others. Benjamin Bond Nesom had 23 children by two wives. [email protected] Dynda L. Andrews