Hello Fine Listers, Now this may not be exactly Huguenotty, however as all listers are avid French historians I thought I would ask here on this list of all lists. In the 10th century in France it was common for the front doors of traitors and criminals homes to be painted yellow. Does anyone know why it was yellow instead of pink or blue or primrose ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Peter, > Well first of all lets see if this is your man ? It wasn't unfortunately. Once I checked dates etc he turned out to be the son of the fellow I'm looking for. I will order that document though. The other fellow who turned up was another son who is my grandfather. Now if I can only find the parents somewhere. Thanks for your help. Regards Trevor Rhodes =========================================== Powered by Linux - Mandrake 9.1 Registered Linux user # 290542 at http://counter.li.org Registered Machine #'s 186951 Mandrake Club Silver Member Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. =========================================== 11:13:02 up 15:34, 4 users, load average: 1.63, 1.25, 1.15 -- I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up!

Hello All, I have no idea if the above name could lead me to Huguenots or not, but it's another avenue for me to try to find this fellow. His name is/was Henry Marius GRANGIER. He came to Australia around the 1860's/70's and married an Ann POWER. I haven't been able to find any record of him entering the country but am just hoping for the slim chance of finding his family elsewhere and then joining up to him that way. Like I said, slim. hehe Regards Trevor Rhodes =========================================== Powered by Linux - Mandrake 9.1 Registered Linux user # 290542 at http://counter.li.org Registered Machine #'s 186951 Mandrake Club Silver Member Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. =========================================== 09:13:38 up 13:35, 4 users, load average: 1.00, 1.07, 1.12 -- I may be getting older, but I refuse to grow up!

Trevor, Well first of all lets see if this is your man ? Grangier Henry Marius John : SERN 6511 : POB Brisbane QLD : POE Liverpool NSW : NOK M Granger Anne It seems that he received a GSW twice. One to the abdomen and one to the left thigh. If this is your man then it is suggested you try this URL http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/recordsearch.html and type GRANGIER HENRY in the keywords section. Now I am only taking a guess, you might like to look in Switzerland for the name or along the France / Suisse border regions as it is a reasonably common name in that part of France. Hope this assists. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

BBC Breakfast this morning featured a new Website that has been set up to trace our Ancestors who moved here from abroad. It is www.movinghere.org.uk At the moment it features Caribbean, Irish, Jewish and South Asian Ancestors, but other communities are planned. Suzie Morley in Suffolk, England Looking for: ALLISON, BRADLEY, MILLER (in London) JEE/GEE, HOLLAND, KIRKMAN, MORLEY, RUSHTON, SPICE (in Lincolnshire) TABOURDEUX, TOUCHARD, URAND (Anywhere)

Peter Leroy, Thank you very much for your answer. If there wasn´t any protestantic church, could an huguenot belong to a catolic church instead? Elisabeth Nyhammer-Gustavsson

Hello Listers, Just to give you some ideas when you head off on your life long journey in genalogy. Now my mastery of the language of the folks across the channel is at best miserable. I wonder how they ever communicated way back when our Huguenot ancestors were arriving in England ? Now everyone knows the French language, well that is how our ancestors would have been thinking, until.... There is an hospitale yn the toun toward the south caullyd Goddes house, wheryn is a chapelle dedicate to Saynct Juliane the bisshop. Thys [ho]spitale was foundyd by 2. [march]auntes beyng bretherne, [whereof] the one was caullyd Ge[rvasius, the o]ther Protasius, [of the sayntes day by likelih]od that they were [borne]. Yes fellow listers, this fellow was describing the then Wallon church in Hampshire, or God's House chapel and now better known as St. Juliens. The highly educated, chappie, was trying to tell us about the church. Minn's translates the text to more modern English in this way by telling us that "it was founded by Gervase le Riche, prepositus of Southampton in 1185. It was granted by Edward III. to Queen's College, Oxford, and the use of the chapel, now known as the French Church, was conceded to Walloon refugees by Queen Elizabeth." Yup! English aint wut it wuz. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Elisabeth Nyhammer-Gustavsson asked "could an huguenot belong to a catolic church instead?" Hmm now there is a very debatable question. To my mind the answer could be a "maybe". Why do I suggest "maybe"? Well, as most people were Catholic to begin, there must surely have been a short "cross-over" period. It is not as though one just woke up one morning, conducted ablutions and said.."ah, tis a good day to be a Huguenot" And so the "maybe" it was possible to be a Catholic but moving on to Lutheranism or somesuch. Of course once the super duper, fabulously wealthy Catholic clergy discoverd that one was even so much as contemplating reading or listening to Luther, Zwingli or Cauvin, then it was off to the local town square for a barbecue. So my answer is a definitive "maybe". It doesn't help much with your research Elizabeth, but as we all know, keeping an open mind in those early searches often takes you to that ground breaking discovery. Genealogy is the art of lateral thinking at times. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Progress , I think......... a Google search for <de la fond > or <de la fonds > reveals that De La Fond was a <Huguenot> family name , and it was also used as a middle name . The Sieurs (Lords) of De La Fond were certainly landowners in Brittany , near St Jacques de la Lande , where a local church was destroyed in the wars of religion -see this website if you read French (copy and paste without linebreaks or extraspaces -if stuck, use Google to find it) http://www.ifrance.com/heberg/pubp.htm?Time=1060545702& Url=/frey-roger/saint-jacques-de-la-lande.htm&Nom=frey-roger&POP=1 Another webpage gives: Anne Marie de Chabot. .................... her book Histoire de la maison de Chabot de Souville, olim Chabaud de Tourrettes (1982). She did a superb job extending and documenting the Chabot family. In particular, we are impressed by her masterful analysis of conflicting documents to prove that Antoine Chabot, the husband of Catherine Lombard, is the same Antoine Chabaud, sieur de La Fond from Provence who was once a knight in the order of St. John of Jerusalem (1: 282-296). He abandoned this celibate order around 1554 when he moved to Paris, became a Huguenot, and married. The name De La Fond also appears in the list of naturalised Huguenots on the useful webpage: http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/surname/hug3.html I think it likely , therefore , that the text: Tabourdeux, Jaques, f. de Jean de la fonds, ouvrier en soye should translate Tabourdeux, Jaques, son of Jean De La Fonds Tabourdeux , silk worker or possibly Tabourdeux, Jaques , son of Jean Tabourdeux De La Fonds ( The d and the s in Fonds were probably silent at about this period ) A historical French dictionary search online doesn't reveal any good candidate for <fonds> as an ordinary noun - wrong gender or number. Unless anyone knows better? Robert Hillier

It always pays to look at other entries in the sources you're using - and Suzie's new one kicks a hole in my previous translation for Jean Jegu where I had a guess at <fond> as part of <defunt(e)>. That won't work in this one, so it might well have been wrong there. Suzie quotes: Tabourdeux, Jaques, f. de Jean de la fonds, ouvrier en soye et de Rachel Brique, dem. En Monmouth St, Stepney. P Led. Pere M Marie Tabourdeux. Ne le 13e My reading of this is : Tabourdeux, Jaques , fils de Jean de la fonds , ouvrier en soye et de Rachel Brique , demoiselle, En Monmouth St, Stepney , Parrain Ledit Pere Marraine Marie Tabourdeux. Ne le treizieme. Translating, Tabourdeux, Jaques , son of Jean (I don't know how to translate de la fonds - it's not consistent with my earlier guess with a form of <defunt> , I think ) , worker in silk and of Rachel Brique , spinster, In Monmouth Street , Stepney, Godfather the said father ( ie Jean the father previously referred to is also his son's godfather) Godmother Marie Tabourdeux. Born on the thirteenth. So there's no such person as Ledit Pere ( unless you fancy looking for someone called Theaforesaid Father <grin> , perhaps related to the Ditto family or the Trad tribe of folksong writers.) Any help with < de la fonds>, Oh Wise Ones out there? HTH, Robert Hillier

Hello and other assorted greetings, Just to throw something in to this topic. This could be a jim dandy litle bookmark for some folks http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/ARTFL/projects/dicos/ Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello, I just found out that one of my ancestors is Jean (Jan) VERNOUILLE, born about 1701 in Onnion, France. He moved to The Netherlands (Groede) and died there in 1760. He was married to Anne MARTIN, and his second marriage (Groede 2 april 1752) was to Susanne DE NIECOURT (Dernicourt) (I don't know yet if she was French or Dutch). My question is if someone can tell me if the records for this time/place still exist, and where can I find them? I assume he is a Huguenot, but I am not sure. I would appreciate any help / suggestions on this. Thank you in advance. Sandra Muys =============================================== Sandra Muys & Edwin Hamelink, Terneuzen, The Netherlands web Edwin: http://people.zeelandnet.nl/ehamelink web Sandra: http://www.geocities.com/muys.rm web Claude the crab: http://muys.tripod.com e-mail Edwin: [email protected] e-mail Sandra: [email protected] ICQ# Edwin: 4719097 ICQ# Sandra: 8970316 Heemkundige Ver. Terneuzen: http://go.to/hvt Heemkundeweb: http://go.to/heemkunde Historie Terneuzen: http://www.terneuzen.com/historie ===============================================

Peter - GBS was, in my opinion, one of the few people who could equal, on occasions, my dear friend Rev. Sydney Smith in both pithiness and wisdom. Thanks to a list member I have now further details of Sydney's (Huguenot) mother's details. Yours Aye Andrew Sellon East Anglia Every law which originated in ignorance and malice, and gratifies the passions from which it sprang, we call the wisdom of our ancestors. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's. From: <[email protected]> <snip> > perhaps George Bernard > Shaw had similar thoughts when he said... > > " When you prevent me from doing anything I want to do > it is persecution; but when I prevent you from doing > anything you want, that is law, order and morals." >

I wonder whether you lovely people can help me with another bit of translation? The online IGI has Jaques TABOURDEUX Baptism details as follows: JAQUES TABOURDEUX Male Birth: 13 OCT 1710 Christening: 22 OCT 1710 La Patente French Huguenot, Spitalfields, London, England Parents: Father: JEAN TABOURDEUX Mother: MAGDELEINE COQUEL But the extract from the Huguenot records has the following information: 22/10/1710. Tabourdeux, Jaques, f. de Jean de la fonds, ouvrier en soye et de Rachel Brique, dem. En Monmouth St, Stepney. P Led. Pere M Marie Tabourdeux. Ne le 13e I am sure that both records are for the same person, but what is 'Jean de la fonds' and where does 'Rachel Brique' fit in the picture? Is it possible that Rachel was Jean's mistress, Jaques was illegitimate, but was baptised and bought up by Jean and Magdeleine? Also, is 'Led. Pere' really the name of the Godfather? I realise that I am inventing history here, so I hope you can help... Suzie Morley in Suffolk, England Looking for: ALLISON, BRADLEY, MILLER (in London) JEE/GEE, HOLLAND, KIRKMAN, MORLEY, RUSHTON, SPICE (in Lincolnshire) TABOURDEUX, TOUCHARD, URAND (Anywhere)

Robert, oh joy, oh bliss.. How wrong could I have been? I had guessed that 'fils de feu' might mean son-in-law, but then the rest of it didn't make sense at all :) and I had also guessed that 'de font Germain' was the place where the TABOURDEUXs came from, which again didn't tie in with what I already know. It did not occur to me that Germain was a Christian Name. > suggest the translation problem is solved as follows: > "fils de feu Noel Gigueu" means "son of the > recently deceased Noel Gigueu" > > et "de font Germain Tabourdeux" means "and of the > dead Germain Tabourdeux". I am really pleased to think that Jegu, Jegut, Gigueu and Giueu are all derivatives of the same name. My husband speaks French, and we have a modern French Dictionary, but 'olde French' obviously contains a lot of words that are no longer used. My husband also pronounces things with a French accent. To him the sounds were not the same. I, on the other hand, do not speak French and I was born in the East End of London so I pronounce the French names probably much as the original Registrars did. > The second reference suggests that Jean Jegu is the same chap as Jean Gigueu > - he is acting as godfather ( P) and his wife Marie Jegu ( nee Tabourdeux) is > godmother (M) to Magdelain T. It might be a coincidence , but I'd bet good > money on it being the happy couple from 1694. The pronounciation/spelling > differences, for the period , are negligible. Many, many thanks, Robert Suzie

Hello, My mothers Huguenot family came from France in the 17th century. The name then may have been Ellner. Is there anyone else with an interest in this surname? Malcolm Hipple

Allowing for the changes in French usage and spelling problems , I would suggest the translation problem is solved as follows: "fils de feu Noel Gigueu" means "son of the recently deceased Noel Gigueu" et "de font Germain Tabourdeux" means "and of the dead Germain Tabourdeux". This reading assumes that "de font" is the same as "defunt(e)" , allowing for a reasonable amount of 300 year old sloppiness in spelling. ( I missed out an accent there on the first e of defunte. The person who wrote the entry missed out the second e entirely.) A good online French historical dictionary selection is at: http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/ARTFL/projects/dicos/ Alternatively , Le Petit Robert is often useful for period French if you look at the fine print origins of the listed words , having guessed what the modern spelling might be. This means that Germain T. is Jean's late mother , and Marie T. is his bride ( her parents are Jacques T. and Claud de B. , both alive ) The second reference suggests that Jean Jegu is the same chap as Jean Gigueu - he is acting as godfather ( P) and his wife Marie Jegu ( nee Tabourdeux) is godmother (M) to Magdelain T. It might be a coincidence , but I'd bet good money on it being the happy couple from 1694. The pronounciation/spelling differences, for the period , are negligible. Warning: I've no experience of registers in French , but have read a certain amount of texts in (original) earlier French spellings. I'm always keen to learn , so does any else in Wall Hugging land have a more expert ( or intelligent) suggestion? HTH, Robert Hillier

Hallo everyone, I wonder whether anyone could help me with a tranlation? It concerns the marriage of one of 'my' TABOURDEUX at Threadneedle St.: [1] 25/02/1694. Giueu, Jean, natif de Plessis Mornay, fils de feu Noel Gigueu [sic] et de font Germain Tabourdeux et Marie Tabourdeux, native de Plessis Mornay, fille de Jacques Tabourdeux et Claud de Brue I am particularly interested in the 'et de font Germain Tabourdeux et Marie Tabourdeux' bit.. Also, I have found a [1] 27/10/1706. Tabourdeux, Magdelain, ff de Jean Tabourdeux, weaver et de Magdelaine Coquel, dem, dans Hair St, Stepney. P Jean Jegu. M Marie Jegu. Nee le 17e And I wonder whether this Jean Jegu is possibly the same person as Jean Giueu? Suzie Morley in Suffolk, England Looking for: ALLISON, BRADLEY, MILLER (in London) JEE/GEE, HOLLAND, KIRKMAN, MORLEY, RUSHTON, SPICE (in Lincolnshire) TABOURDEUX, TOUCHARD, URAND (Anywhere)

The things that could have been applied. If you ponder the Guise family and the Huguenots and just what was the Reform about perhaps George Bernard Shaw had similar thoughts when he said... " When you prevent me from doing anything I want to do it is persecution; but when I prevent you from doing anything you want, that is law, order and morals." Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi, Is there anyone who knows if there were any huguenots in Breslau in Germany (now Wroclaw in Poland) after 1685? If so, which church do they belong to? I can´t find any protestantic church I can order microfilm at Family Search. Elisabeth Nyhammer-Gustavsson