avocat old French, I do believe, to desribe someone with traing in jurisprudence ie. a lawyer. Something my ancestors were involved way back in the olden days in St. Malo Hmm ok so very olden days 1300 to 1500 Yes, I am one who still has strong feelings that suggest that Dreyfus was "framed" and the prosecutor DuPaty de Cham was part of it. But I feel we should end such topic unless we can somehow discuss the law during Huguenot times Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

£1 in 1530 had a purchasing power of £328.80 in Dec. 1998, according to a statistical table compiled by the Bank of England. It is based on the Retail Price Index based at Jan 1987 =100 which does not take into account the cost of real property or the level of wages. This means that your 1,300,000 livre bribe today might be worth approx. £42,770,000. Barbara Holt ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [HWE] How much ? > It seems that I omitted the year of the quote > concerning the 1,300,000 livre "bribe". > > The year was 1532 and some wonderfully protective > bishops met the King to convince him that these > protestors should be dealt with. > > Kind Regards, > Peter Leroy > > ______________________________

Hello Again, I am now somewhat puzzled and so to satisfy my curiosity I am just amking sure that I am looking at the right family. And to Gwen, I assuem that this is your ancestor ? From Jennings County Library, IN, Deputy genealogy by Belvah Perkins. Land Record of Sylvester Deputy 1741 Pennsylvania, and Counties of Delaware, By the Proprietaries: Whereas Sylvester Deputy of the County of Sussex hath requested of Us that We would be pleased to grant him a survey on three hundred and fifty acres of land situate in Gum Neck adjoining his Plantation on the Forest of the said County for which he agrees to pay to our Ufe, from the Date hereof, the yearly Quit-Rent of One Penny Sterling for every Acre of the farm, and one whole Year's Rent on every Alienation: THESE are therefore to authorize and require thee to survey or cause to be surveyed unto the said Sylvester Deputy at the Place aforesaid, contiguous to Surveys already made, the said Quantity of 350 acres, if not already surveyed or appropriated, and make Return thereof into the Secretary's Office, in order for Confirmation; for which this shall be they sufficient Warrant. Given under my Hand, and the Seal of our Land Office, at Philadelphia, this eighth day of April 1741 To Benjamin Eaftburn, Surveyor-General

Family legend states that the first Sylvester was a French Huguenot who settled in Wales using the surname Dupaty. He immigrated to America and it was here that the name was changed to Deputy. Sylvester Sr. died before 01 Apr 1761. My problem is that I have never been able to place this name in Wales. There are numerous references to the name Dupaty on the web but they are in the French language and my high school French has long since been forgotten. Can any one help with this name?

Hello Fellow Listers, Gwen was seeking information on her dupaty or deputy ancestors and any connection to the Huguenot faith. Considering the potential for variation of the surname, perhaps some research on the possibilites is in order. Although I am positive that Gwen has already undertaken the challenge. Many articles of the "Dreyfus Affair" appear to mention the name as Du Paty ie. Commandant du Paty de Clam who was the prosecutor during the trials of the much meligned Dreyfus. A sordid tale of the French justice system of the time I believe that this very ordinary avocat was born in the Alsace region ? Then there are the numerous writers either with the name Du Paty or using the name. Several were quite famous for their works. Further reference leads us to ponder simply that the ancestor was from Paty. A search for ancestors there might also assist. Obviously Gwen knows her own family history. I humbly suggest that the name change may have been from du Paty to Deputy when they arrived in Wales. As many Huguenots did so in order to "blend" with the local community. Those in Canada using the name Roy, is an example. A variation common to the name Du Paty may be Dupati. Again this name is reasonably common in France, particularly in the Picardie region. Now here is a real diversion. The name Dupati also means a large scarf-like piece of fabric worn by Muslim and Hindu women in Northern India, Pakistan and parts of the Middle East to cover their head. Which may offer some clue as to the occupation of your French ancestors. Silk weavers and Huguenots appear to go hand in hand on many occasions. Hence the name Dupati moves to Dupaty and then anglified to Deputy. Now let's take another look at what we may have. If we take a known user of the name, the treachurous avocat in the Dreyfus affair. He was actually Du Paty du Cham. Now Cham is over on the the Bay of Biscay, in broad terms near La Rochelle. Now the port city of La Richelle was a known Huguenot enclave. So perhaps your ancestors were silk weavers (Dupati) from La Rochelle ? Not suprising then that if they also happen to be Huguenot then they would board ship and head off due north and guess where they would arrive ? Wales! Now subscribed to this list, is an absolute expert on shipping, East India shipping to be more precise; however perhaps he or someone else would know of any ships that moved from La Rochelle to a port in Wales ? I doubt, and I am going to be corrected very quickly here, that ships travelled directly from Wales to North America during those times ? From Ireland most certainly and well Portsmouth and Liverpool is a "given" I hope that this rambling is of some assistance. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello again one and all. Barbara Holt from that little idsland off the mainland of Australia write to advise :- > This means that your 1,300,000 livre bribe today might be worth approx. £42,770,000. Well now, thank you Barbara for doing all that math work, now I have a greater understanding of just what the pesky bishops were offering. And no wonder the King accepted. It would not be unkind to offer that the royal family of France in that period had mis-managed the wealth of the country and so any "donation" of that proportion would certainly have the King thinking all manner of good things about the Bishops. For 42 million quid even a good Hugueont might have changed his ideas. It does now raise yet another question, to my mind at least. Just how much money did these pesky bishops have access to, and what else did they do with such fortunes ? Just prior to the Wars of Religion my own family had collected a degree of wealth and now I can't even afford a computer upgrade. No wonder I have this little moment, now and again, when I see a bishop pass my way. It is genetics you see. Thank you again Barbara Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

I wonder if anyone is aware of the origins of the family name HESSEL. I would be interested to know if it has Walloon and or Huguenot connections. It is said that they were Huguenots who came to England in the late 16th Century and settled in Lincolnshire at Great Hale. Any help would be appreciated. Garth - Surrey

Hi Peter and all, From: <[email protected]> > who can tell me how much this would > be today ? In pounds sterling or U.S. dollars will do > It seems that I omitted the year of the quote > concerning the 1,300,000 livre "bribe". > > The year was 1532 See: http://www.lepg.org/money.htm One problem is that there was a large amount of inflation in the 16th C; so you have a bit of a moving target. I think the best way to get a comparison is to compare your amount to what people could earn. In other words, how long would someone have to work to earn that amount. In the second section of the above web page it says: "In 1500, a skilled artisan made about 4 sou per day,..." So, since 20 sous make a livre, he would earn about 1 livre per week. If we estimate (just for the sake of round numbers) that a "skilled artisan" might make $1000 per week today ($50,000 per year), then we would equate 1 livre with $1000. So, your 1,300,000 livres would be $1,300,000,000 -- a pretty large sum. Another way to get a comparison is to read historical novels such as those by Dumas. Assuming of course that he did his homework and accurately reflects how much things cost in those days in terms of livres. I know in the Three Musketeers he often mentions how much things cost. This is set in the early 1600's. So, you might want to try his earlier "Valois Romances", set in the 1500's. It has been a long time since I read them, so I don't remember how often prices are mentioned. Regards, Howard [email protected]

It seems that I omitted the year of the quote concerning the 1,300,000 livre "bribe". The year was 1532 and some wonderfully protective bishops met the King to convince him that these protestors should be dealt with. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

ok Fellow listers, who can tell me how much this would be today ? In pounds sterling or U.S. dollars will do "representatives of the clergy accompanied their vote of 1,300,000 livres" Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

This apparently odd spelling ( to non-French speakers ) of the town name seems very likely if you imagine an acute accent on the e of doue ( to get the common word of the period : dowered (in English )) - sounding exactly as Douai . Robert Hillier

Hello all, As yet writted here "doue en Hainaut" must be the actual city of Douai in France. You can view old map with Douai (writted Douay in the past) at http://patrimoine.met.wallonie.be/Cartothèque/ Regards - ******************************************************************** ROUFOSSE Olivier Assistant Dessinateur - Topographe Ministère de l'Equipement et des Transports.- D.432. Boulevard du Nord, 8 - 5000 Namur tel: ../32/081-77.33.78. adresse privée - (home address) : rue Georges Emmanuel, 21 B-5020 FLAWINNE e-mail : [email protected] Membre affilié au Service de Centralisation des études Généalogiques et Démographiques de Belgique (SCGD). ********************************************************************

The "doue en Hainaut" is probably Douai, now in Northern France (Département du Nord - 59). Although Hainaut is now used as the name of a province in Belgium, there were substantial boundary changes between 1650 and 1713 eventually leaving Douai in France. The web site at http://www.cdt-nord.fr/fr/hain/sortha.asp shows that they still make something of their Hainaut past, as does http://www.lille.cci.fr/tourisme/hain02b.html . John Lindley North Yorkshire . . ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:00 PM Subject: [HWE] Researching FOY > Dear Heather, > among the Huguenot families I'm researching in Brandenburg fromer Prussia is the family FEU. This sounds in German as FOY in English. It is also spelled FOUE or FEUT. The family (Pierre Foue)came from somewhere written as "doue en Hainaut". Pierre had a daughter Sara born 1691 in Gramzow, Uckermark. > Maybe a hint to what to look for. > Ina Jonas-Nolte > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > HWE list has two archives you can search. > Access both archives through the list website at: > http://www.island.net/~andreav/archives.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Dear Heather, among the Huguenot families I'm researching in Brandenburg fromer Prussia is the family FEU. This sounds in German as FOY in English. It is also spelled FOUE or FEUT. The family (Pierre Foue)came from somewhere written as "doue en Hainaut". Pierre had a daughter Sara born 1691 in Gramzow, Uckermark. Maybe a hint to what to look for. Ina Jonas-Nolte

Hi Everyone, I have recently joined this list and am hoping to break down a brickwall. However, I have to admit that it is a bit of a long shot but even if nothing comes of it, I will have enjoyed my time here as all the little snippets of historical information are so interesting. Anyway, my paternal Grandmother's family were the FOYs. All my life I have been told that they were originally from France and certainly over the years, various members, myself included, have looked more French than English (nobody ever thinks I'm English until I open my mouth and a distinctly non French accent comes out :-) ). An elderly distant relation had already researched this line when I started but she had not found any French relations. I am now trying to find the French connection and as another FOY researcher told me that many FOYs were originally Huguenots, I am now looking into this aspect and this list seems a good place to start. We have the family tree back to Thomas FOY who married Ann ? in about 1763 in Chertsey, Surrey, England. We have no idea where he came from. I am hoping that if I can find some information on the French FOYs I may be able to work forward and eventually connect to my family. Of course I could be wasting my time but it is very interesting trying to find out :-). If anyone else is researching this family, I would love to hear from you. If anyone has any suggestions that would help, I would appreciate hearing from them. However, I must point out that I am disabled and losing the use of my hands which makes typing difficult, often impossible so if you don't get an immediate reply, I am not being rude. I do always answer but sometimes it takes a bit of time so please bear with me. Many thanks. Heather Thomas, Sutton, Surrey, U.K.

>Gregory de Tours Hello cousins, I will have a word about him in the volume Two of Patrick Delaforce's 'Family History Research'..... yes, he has sent me the material & I am knocking it together. When I have a text he approves, it will go on the web & I will post a message up here. There are 19 extra chapters by Patrick & 7 added by me. The titles are already on:- http://www.art-science.com/Ken/Genealogy/Patrick/index.html Best wishes, Ken (Delaforce) Baldry -- Ken Baldry [email protected] +44 (0)20 7359 6294 17 Gerrard Road Islington London N1 8AY GB Fascinating web site at:- http://www.art-science.com

Hi Tony, Sounds like you had a great trip. I look forward to hearing all about it. Karen JENTER Michigan

Hi Guys Just been to Bergerac (in France on hols) and came across a large Protestante Temple in the town square. Have pics but not downloading them until I get back to the UK 12 Sept - if anybody wants a copy, available then. I'll also post the full story of the Temple at the same time. In the meantime, La Rochelle and Isle d'Re beckon Regards Tony Fuller

Hello Listers, And some suggest that my English is not so good. The following is a translation from Latin to English now imagine trying to figure this out if you are a relative of the aforesaid Robert Malet. The purpose of this minor post is to offer that you aren't necessarily seeing what you think you read. Once a document is translated try and doscover what it actually is telling you before you enter data to your computer. The land of Robert Malet. Fredrebruge Hundred and half Glorestorp. Godwin, a freeman, held it. Two carucates of land in the time of king Edward. Then and afterwards 8 villains; now 3. Then and afterwards 3 bordars; now 5. At all times 3 serfs, and 30 acres of meadow. At all times 2 carucates in demesne. Then half a carucate of the men, and now. Woods for 8 swine, and 2 mills. Here are located 13 socmen, of 40 acres of land. When it was received there were 2 r.,' now 1. At all times 8 swine, then 20 sheep, and it is worth 60 shillings. There is situated there, in addition, one berewick, as the manor of Heuseda. In the time of king Edward, 1 carucate of land; then and afterwards 7 villains, now 5. At all times 12 bordars, and 3 serfs, and 40 acres of meadow; 1 mill. Woods for 16 swine and 1 salt pond and a half Then 1 r., and now and 14 swine, 30 sheep, and 50 goats. In this berewick are located 3 socmen, of 10 acres of land, and it is worth 30 shillings. The two manors have 2 leagues in length and 4 firlongs in breadth. Whosoever is tenant there, returns 12 pence of the twenty shillings of geld. Domesday Book, Vol. 2, pp 153-l54. Latin. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Ah to ponder all things philosophical about Huguenot matters and history in general. Tis the life. So fellows, and of course those subscribers who are the fellowettes, I have had a small delay, a set of circumstances that caused a minor halt to the pursuit of genealogical study. This then caused my mind to examine once again how we as modern day thinkers see and react to the deeds of our ancestors. Once before I made mention of one Gregory de Tours, and how his writings of history are the base of much of our understanding of his times or indeed the times of others. Now he wrote about Clovis. Not a very nice person was Clovis but write did Gregory, only problem I see is a point of accuracy. Afterall, he was writing some 100 years after Clovis. So what has any of this to do with anything ? Nothing in short. I simply am passing on some discussion points or perhaps provide the reader with thoughts on their own study of their ancestors and the truth behind the story or family legend. So as to keep our most wonderful concierge from typing something about being "on topic", I shall attempt to push this and these thoughts toward things Huguenot. By the way.. Where is our concierge Andrea ? My goodness a digression and from me who is always to the point ! So! Huguenot story, legend, family truisms. Ever wondered, perhaps silently to yourself, just how true is a story about say ancestor 'Henri' or 'Jean' or 'Mildred' ? A list is discovered, or worse, compiled some 300 years after the Huguenot time period that you discover in a library or on that thing that always offers truth, the Internet. "Truth" and "Internet" ?? Now on this list is your family name.. ergo.. your ancestor was a Huguenot. Let us presume that it is early spring, 1534, southern or northern hemisphere is up to the reader, and ancestor is out shearing his flock or tending his goats etc. A local with a largish sword says "we need a crowd at the town square, be there or else". So off our ancestor toddles to dutifully take up a position in the square. A day out for the entire family is always fun. The speaker is thundering words of damnation and other horrors, "well gosh Mildred, he is an educated man so what he tells us must be true". The speakers' cohorts mingle among the dutiful uneducated farmers whipping up enthusiasm for the speaker. And just so the speaker can show his friends later just how many 'converts' he has gained, he has his workers have folks sign their names. "Sign?" Well now you see way back in those days, farmer 'Henri' or ancestor 'Mildred' didn't even have a cheque book to sign. So this idea of all our Huguenot ancestors signing this attendance list is not really possible, is it ? Ah, I hear a mutter of thoughts, 'Henri' et 'Mildred' made their mark! Hmm, ok ok, so they made their mark. How does an out of towner know later on just who made the mark ? He doesn't and so to make a nice piece of paper (which was expensive) look really pretty, and legal, the mark is slightly changed to read a name. Woohoo 'Henri' and 'Mildred' are now recorded for posterity as being in attendance at a Huguenot rally. Historians will take that document, do some swift translating, et Voila!... the document is now a record of a Huguenot meeting where all were paid up members of the Huguenot faith and so some 400 years later our modern day genealogist discovers this dusty document, see's his or her name and proudly announces that they are of Huguenot descent. Is there any other way of varifying the contents of the document ? Probably not. How does one discover that 'Henri' and 'Mildred' were Huguenot positively ? You can't. And there fellow and fellowettes is the marvel of recorded history. We swear on a stack of aethiest bibles that Henri was Huguenot. The question is, how do we really know? And so it goes for all recorded history, unless of course your research discovers several hundered copies in chronological order of personal diaries of that one ancestor. Ah! but then there is the slight problem, just because he had a diary it does not mean he actually wrote in it, does it? After all, who had the money to be educated in reading and writing in 1534? A very very small minority of France. So the odds of ancestor 'Henri' recording the fact that he was a Huguenot in France in 1534 are very slim. Mind you there is the other situation. 'Henri' owned the whole farm, town and province, was a student of the Sorbonne and did carry a diary which has been found for modern genealogists to pour over. So my fellow listers, be aware of failed truths in your documentation of an ancestor, and be very aware of the accuracy of family gedcoms' sitting on personal webpages. Some folks seem to have a "proven" ancestry going back 50 generations and after only 2 years research. They are the sources that one needs to seek other sources to varify the information contained. And be aware, kind and youthfull subscribers, that the accuracy of even some well known professional sites on the Internet are prone to be highly inaccurate due to the sources of the uploader providing that information. ok that is enough philosophising for today. Good luck with all our researching of all things Huguenot. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy