Andrea - Please accept a "welcome back". Yours Aye Andrew Sellon East Anglia Holland and the Netherlands are not fit Countries for the habitation of man. They are usurped from the Kingdom of Frogs, and are the proper domicile of Aquatic Reptiles. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's. From: "Andrea Vogel" <[email protected]> > Hello everyone -- apologies for my long absence from > this list. I see that you've been doing quite well without > me, though <g>. <snip>

Hi folks The email address for the Hug Soc is one of the addresses within University College, London (UCL) where the Library is based as part of UCL's Special Collections. I do have some email addresses for various officers of the Society but as they were sent to me privately and they do not appear in the Members List for 2003, I'd rather not give them out. Markus, I suggest that you try the unis web site www.ucl.ac.uk and follow the links for the Library from there and then follow the links for the Special Collections. Hope this helps in some way Regards Tony Fuller

Hello Listers, Err Andrea who ? Maybe she is a new subscriber ? Well! or should that be well, well, well ? Enough frivolity, welcome back Madame Andrea. Your abscence was duely noted and I am sure your note for being away is on its way. Hmm that wont work!. You are the 'Principal" (Concierge) so I suppose a note is not required. ok ok I will fess up and admit that I missed you as I am sure many of the 300 plus subscribers to the most wonderful of all lists will agree. oops. <add here> something about Huguenot or Walloon so as to ensure that this post is on-topic. I made a a note to ask why a Walloon is so called ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

The website of the Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland at http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/ mentions the e-mail address mailto:[email protected] When trying to send an e-mail to this address, it is returned with the error message cited below. Does anybody have an alternative e-mail address of the Huguenot Society? Sincerely, Markus Röhling Error message: -------------- This is the EasyPost program at host mail6.easyspace.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The EasyPost program <[email protected]>: host vscan-b.ucl.ac.uk[144.82.100.151] said: 550 Unknown user (in reply to RCPT TO command) Reporting-MTA: dns; mail6.easyspace.com Arrival-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:23:46 +0000 (GMT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; [email protected] Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-EasyPost; host vscan-b.ucl.ac.uk[144.82.100.151] said: 550 Unknown user (in reply to RCPT TO command)

Listers -- here's another forwarded post from the Board. But this will be the last one for today because I don't want any of you to feel deluged. However, please understand that there is a backlog of posts on the Board which I will be forwarding in the coming days. And, as you know by now, instructions for replying to this forwarded post are at the end of the message. Andrea (as list concierge) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Posted on HWE Board: June 15, 2003 Message Board Post as follows: I am researching this runholder of Tolaga Bay, on the East Coast, New Zealand, who shows up from 1873 onwards via Victoria, Australia. According to his obituary in 1932, he was from the Mastricht area of Holland - and looking around at the names, it looks like his family was of Huguenot origins - according to various sources he was from Houthem (which I can find) and Foquemont (which I cannot!) Apparently he spoke German, French and Spanish in addition to Dutch and English, which would indicate a well-educated man, and his rapid acquisition of land, probably a well-resourced family. If anyone has connection with this family or knows about them, please contact me Stephen Donald Gisborne NZ [email protected] ============================================ If you'd like to reply to Stephen's messge, do so on the Board via this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Fq.2ADEAE/173. Once you're on the Board, click on Post Reply. Your reply may then be forwarded to this list. END of Message Board Post

Hello -- here's another message forwarded from the HWE Board. As always, instructions for replying are at the end of the message. (Please reply on the Board, not the list.) Andrea (list concierge) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Posted on HWE Board: July 15, 2003 Message Board Post as follows: My cousin has traced my LENNE ancestors back to Augustin LE NEU who went to Prussia in 1665 from Liege. I am wondering if anyone can let me know if Augustin could have been a Huguenot. My mother said the ancestors moved to Germany because of religious persecution. I would be grateful for any information anyone could give me about Augustin LE NEU who was an ancestor of Peter Joseph LENNE the famous Prussian garden designer. M King ============================================= To reply to M. King's message, click on this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Fq.2ADEAE/181 which will take you to the original message on the Board. Then click on Post Reply. Your reply may then be forwarded to this list. END of Message Board Post

Listers -- here's another message forwarded from the HWE Board. As with the previous one I forwarded today, the author has not signed his/her name at the end of the message. (Posters on the Boards often don't.) However, judging from the e-mail address, it may be Linda who is the author. In any case, she is not a subscriber to this list. So, if you'd like to reply to her, do it on the Board. See instructions at the end of this message re: how to do that. Andrea (your list concierge) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Posted to HWE Board: September 10, 2003 Message Board Post as follows: Searching info on possible immigration from Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands or France to Sweden/Norway...likely early 1800's or before... as huguenots ? or to escape French Revolution or as part of Napoleon's military campaigns or as merchants (timber, fish...) John BARRY born in Norway early 1800's, wife Johanna, son Erastus BARRY, born May 1833 somewhere in Norway, emigrated to New York about 1842 (my great great grandfather). ============================================== To reply to the above message, click on the following URL. This will lead you to the original message on the Board where you should click Post Reply. Your reply may then be forwarded to this list. http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Fq.2ADEAE/190 END of Message Board Post

Hello everyone -- apologies for my long absence from this list. I see that you've been doing quite well without me, though <g>. Many thanks to those of you who've kept the list going at a fairly lively pace in the last few months. Now, to the business of this list. Here follows a Message Board Post {MBP}, originally posted on the HWE Board last month. It's being forwarded to the list by me, your list concierge. If you'd like to reply to this forwarded post, see instructions at the end of this message. Regards to all, Andrea (list concierge) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Posted on HWE Board: August 20, 2003 Message Board Post as follows: Can anyone provide a connection between these two family groups? Are the Southampton and South Hampshire VAINs descended from Huguenot refugees from the Dieppe area or Rouen area where the surname VAIN is still in evidence? If you'd like to reply to this Board post, please do so *on the Board* (not on the list) by clicking on the following URL. This will lead you to the original message on the Board. Once there, click on Post Reply. Your reply may then be forwarded to this list. http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/Fq.2ADEAE/188 END of Message Board post

Barbara, I looked on google, I found nothing. There might be something in gallica http://gallica.bnf.fr/ , the French national library site. My explanation or other translation is an inversion in ceuil , which might be cueil(le) , to pick , gather even French speaking people do that error between cuei and ceui which then would translate= Life has its attractions if you pick it gladly (if you view it with a glad heart). The rest of the text could be the same. It then means remember also the good parts of your life's journey. Français at the end could have been written françois in the 15-16th century. A Belgian collegue told me that you could find the political affiliation of a Flanders person of that time if he had named his son Philip (Spanish king) or François (french king). Luc

Peter le Roy's ruminations on Huguenot writings has prompted me to share a little puzzle from my family history which someone may be able to shed light on. When Holloway Hastings, a 31 year old first cousin once removed of my Irish-born great-grandmother ( she who told her family she was of Huguenot stock) came to NZ from Ireland on a visit in 1896, he wrote this entry in her autograph book: "To my cousin Jane Clements (this was her maiden name so he followed the French tradition here): La vie a des attraits Pour qui la ceuil joyeuse Faut il dans les regrets La paper tou ciruse? Jamais, Jamais, Le Plaisir est Francais." I showed this to a cousin who teaches French and he showed it to an expert in Middle and Old French who said it did not appear to be that. Neither knew where it came from. I think it makes sense if you change the spelling of "ceuil" to "coeur est" and of "ciruse" to "serieuse". My translation then becomes: "Life has its attractions for which the heart rejoices. Is it necessary in your regrets to be serious on paper? Never, never! Pleasure is French." My own tentative conclusion is that Holloway may have heard this verse spoken by his Huguenot family in Ireland but not have studied French at school long enough to know how to spell it properly. I would be glad to hear from anyone who has an alternative explanation to suggest or who knows the author of this poem. Barbara Holt in New Zealand.

Hello to you, Next time you happen to be staring at your collection of names associated with the dead, or as some may wish to refer such a collection.. you ancestorial history, give some thought as to just how did they record that history. Ah the writer of this post has been delving too far into Sartre or some other wally weirdo again, you may suggest. Actually it was not him, more Mr. Arouet and some of his writings. Seems he touched upon a small piece of history that many of us are not aware. It seems that like many a writer of his time, Voltaire was concerned that the people would not hear his words. He wrote and was read by all, that is by those who could read but then adds that even if one could actually read, did they have access to books. Which brings me to looking over our own collection of documents relating to that small section on our Huguenot ancestors, and to ask myself the very same question. Hands up you listed as dead ancestors, if you could read and were proficient in writing. Making a mark is not considered as being able to write, although if one could make your mark then you were of that minority that chose to believe that you could indeed write. Now these Huguenot times were absolutely crammed with books, pamphlettes, notices and scribbles on doors, so reading was being practiced by the masses at every opportunity. But there were actually very few who could write. So who did all the writing ? Surely it was not left entirely to Calvin, Zwingli and other infamous folks to write all in favour of things Huguenot ? Now reading and writing, as mentioned, was one thing, but just how did the general population get their little hands on one of those new fangled mass produced things called books? We are talking the 15th to 17th century here folks, education was for the rich and what we would today call, a reasonable education, was for the really really rich. So if books were expensive and not available in paperback from Amazon.com just how did so many people know about things Huguenot? Nope, Dan Rather or Mishal Husain didn't tell them nightly, Rupert Murdoch was too young to produce the news in print. So who did produce these books? Sure would not have been the Catholic Bishops, well they did but what good Huguenot wants to read pulp fiction. Who produced the Huguenot books is a very good question? Was it one of your ancestors ? I wonder how many of us are able to say that they have seen, or actually have, a document written by a Huguenot ancestor ? I shall ponder some more on this point as if I have a handwritten document, which is beyond doubt written by my Huguenot ancestor, then it is either true or his own version of the world. If the document is written by another, about my Huguenot ancestor, then its' reliability must come into doubt, afterall, it is the writers interpretation of my ancstors deeds or infamy and so, is it true ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Herman Thank you for a vivid account. We lived for a year in Lyons and were fortunate to have been able to explore the Dauphine and Provence and know what the country is like. To have crossed the mountains into Switzerland must have been a terrible ordeal. I remember being in a village near Chamonix, France, during an alpine festival and in the parade were mountain guides from Italy who had just come for the day, presumably through the Mont Blanc tunnel. Nevertheless, I think this emphasises how close mountain people were, even though they lived in different countries. My starting point in all this is an ancestor names Hessel who it is said were Huguenots who came to England from Italy and settled here in the late 16th Cent. Firstly Hessel does not sound Italian and I was not aware that there were Italian Huguenots anyway. I would not have thought of catholic Italy as a safe refuge for protestant migrants. My hunch is that Hessel is German, Swiss, Dutch, Flemish or Austrian. Gwynn's book on the Huguenots and the benefits brought to England refers to the flight of the Vaudois into Piedmont. I have since learned that protestants in Italy were most likely to have been concentrated in the north so that seems consistent. A Swiss friend has been able to clarify some of the history of the Vaud which is a canton of modern Switzerland. "As to the history of the Canton of Vaud: It was Roman, as was all of Switzerland, then in the 5th century belonged to Burgundy, thus belonging to the Holy Roman Empire. Conquered in the 13./14. century by Savoy, then from 1536 subject to Berne, which at that time was a powerful city state. Berne introduced Protestantism. Under Napoleon it became the "Canton Léman" in the Helvetian Republic, then joined the Swiss Federation as an independent Canton de Vaud in 1803. The Swiss Federation had been founded in 1291 by 3 central cantons, declaring itself independent from the Austrian Hapsburg dynasty, but still belonging to the H.R. Empire. Berne (and with it later on Vaud) has been a member since 1353." Apparently catholic domination ended in 1536 when it became subject to the Bernese. It follows that the flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont must have been before that date. What puzzles me is that Hessel is not a Swiss or French name so I wonder if they were Vaudois at all. It would be very interesting if listers could look in their local phone books to see whether there are significant entries for Hessel(l) or similar. I look forward to learning more. Regards Garth - Surrey i

Thanks for the very interesting links you shared, Peter. I was very glad to see that part about the slave galleys. According to ancient family legend, my original Labuschagne ancestor had a brother or an uncle by the name of Samson (de) la Buscaigne, who wasn't blessed with an abundance of good fortune. While the rest of the family escaped France intact, Samson was caught and sentenced to row in the slave galleys. I have searched for his name many a time, but he seems to have been swallowed up by history, leaving only the shadow of a name and a vague legend. You don't suppose there might have been some kind of records kept concerning names of galley slaves? Probably too much to expect, but you never know. One can only begin to imagine the horror of having been chained at the oars for thirty or forty years. That article filled in a piece of knowledge for which I've kept a space open for a long time. Thanks again. Regards, Herman Labuschagne Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 September 2003 09:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont Hello All and Many, Garth has posed an interesting thread. The Calvinists of Suisse (Switzerland). I would have considered the followers of Zwingli to be more prominent in that country ? However let us see what smidgeoans of information can be dug up. Luberon community also called Vaudois.. well that is a beginning I suppose. This webpage gives us some information http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0530.htm Hmm now this might be of some assistance. A knowledge of the French language may be required http://www.routevaudoisluberon.com And of course there is this URL http://www.rootsweb.com/~chevaud/ Perhaps all of the above is already known but then again, maybe something may be useful. Better still, by the rule of cause and effect, I am sure that others will join in with other snippets. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== When posting to the HWE list: SURNAMES written in capitals, s'il vous plaît. Also, please specify dates and location, including country. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hello Garth, I'm also looking for similar information on escape journeys, so I'll share with you that which I have, and hope that someone else might feel motivated to try and fill in some details. Perhaps my own family's story might give you some slight insight on how unpleasant the leaving of one's birth country would have been. I'm basing most of what follows on an article called "Mesnard (Minnaar) Family Focus" which appeared in the Huguenot Bulletin no 38, published by the Huguenot Society of South Africa. The author was not indicated, but I have reason to believe that it was written by Biebie van der Merwe. The information contained in this article, to the best of my knowledge, would have been based on Boucher's "French Speakers at the Cape"-don't quote me on that. I may not have the title correct. About circumstances regarding my own family, the Mesnards, this is what I can tell you: My ancestor, Jean Mesnard departed along with his brother-in-law, Louis Corbon (aka "Courbonne"), who was 20 years old at the time. According to the article the Courbonnes were descendants of Waldenses who had settled along the slopes of the Luberon Mountains of Provance. These Waldensian families had settled there 200 years earlier and had originally come form Dauphine and Piedmond. With Louis Courbonne, there was also his cousin, Pierre (la or le) Grange, who was 3 years his senior, and who came from Cabriere d'Aigues. Jean's family consisted of six little kids between the ages of ten, and less than one year old. Jeans family were original Waldenses who came from the Aigues valley in the foothills of the Luberon mountains, where they are said to have settled between 1470 and 1520. That tells you about the people. Concerning the journey, the article has more or less the following to report: From the Luberon they would have travelled along the mountain road between Saint Martin and Manosque, and from there along the Durace River, passing Sisteron (border of Provance and Dauphine), past Lac de Serre-Poncon, past the Italian Alps, and then into Switzerland. According to my understanding, many had to cross the Alps in mid-winter. The banished refugees were travelling in various different groups over several months. Many people most likely died during the journey as it became colder. My family must have been fortunate in having been able to cross before the real cold, but I would presume that temperatures may already have been unpleasant enough regardless. When my little group arrived in Lousanne on 15 September 1687, they would have been extremely exhausted and probably famished too. How would they have transported the little ones? One might suppose that they wouldn't easily have had the luxury of donkeys or horses or some kind of cart. Also, how did they carry food? I would presume that they may not have received much help from whatever Catholic regions why would have travelled through. That would surely have been the most critical stage of the journey. Once in Switzerland and Germany, it looks like the refugees were usually warmly received by fellow Waldensians or Huguenots. These good Samaritans often did not have the means to take care of the steady stream of refugees, but at least they offered shelter and sympathy and shared what little they had anyway. No doubt, this must have saved the lives of many. Perhaps I am only here today because some nameless soul had given the Mesnard family half a loaf of black peasant's bread somewhere along the journey. One would never know. From Lousanne the Mesnards and Courbonnes and probably some of their in-laws and friends, went to Zurich, where the article notes that Louise Corbonne had been "'distressed by the fatigue of the journey'" (Vigne, 1998:35)." They probably obtained some kind of boat passage down the Rhine river until they received Frankfurt by October. There they seem to have been assisted by yet more kind souls with generous hearts. From Frankfurt, the journey continued by boat on the Main. From Mainz they made their way via the Rhine to Rotterdam. They arrived before 23 December 1687, while, according to my understanding, many other refugees were dying behind them as they were forced to cross the Alps in winter. In some ways the most interesting part of the journey must have been crossing the mountains. Perhaps those who have more insight into what the countryside looks like would be able to enlighten us on what it must have been like. At Rotterdam the tired band of fugitives obtained passage on the China and finally sailed for a new beginning in South Africa. The rest is history. This is but a brief sketch from a faded page, torn from the ancient book of the past. It may not be much, but perhaps it can help us understand just a little better, or at least, to draw some interesting possible conclusions. Regards, Herman Labuschagne Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Garth Swanson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 September 2003 07:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [HWE] Re: Flight of the Vaudois to Piedmont I wonder if anyone is familiar with the movement of Huguenots/Calvinists from Vaud(now part of Switzerland) to Piedmont in Italy and thence to England. Any written sources of information would be very much appreciated. Garth - Surrey

I wonder if anyone is familiar with the movement of Huguenots/Calvinists from Vaud(now part of Switzerland) to Piedmont in Italy and thence to England. Any written sources of information would be very much appreciated. Garth - Surrey

Hello Tom, I also have Mesnards which I'm always chasing after. I have a Georges Meinard * abt1633 or 1651 St Martin de la Brusque, France x Jeanne Ascot * abt 1637, Provence, France. They had three children: Jean Mesnard * abt 1659, Provence, + bef 1692, Drakenstein, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa x Louise Corbonne + 1689, daughter of NN Carbonne and Maria Anthouarde Andre Meinard * abt 1660, Provence x Honorade Roumanne * abt 1656, Provence Philippe Meinard *abt 1662, Provence, France It would appear that Jean would have been living in Provence around 1677-1683. Georges Meinard probably came from Saint Martin de la Brusque. Jean Mesnard became the founder of the Mesnard family in South Africa. The name became corrupted to "Minnaar," as it is still used to this day. Philippe was a very common name in the Minnaar family. These Mesnards are counted as Huguenots today, but they were actually of the Waldensian faith. They came to South Africa from Holland as French refugees in 1688 on a ship called the "China" (erroneously known as the "Berg China" in most history sources). Their escape from France was a most dramatic one under the most dreadful circumstances. Apparently their flight took them to Holland, from whence they boarded the ship for South Africa. Even this last voyage was one of those nightmarish passages in which there was much drama and many people died. From the bits and pieces known about this family's flight from France, it seems clear that their life story would have been deserving of an epic book or film if only they had kept a detailed diary. Jean Mesnard set out for freedom with 9 children, plus some of his friends and in-laws, but of his family, all died but one little 11 year old boy, Philippe Mesnard. Little Philippe was left an orphan not terribly long after their arrival in Cape Town. He was raised by other Huguenots from Saint Martin de la Brusque. He later married another Huguenot daughter, Jeanne Moy and became the ancestor of all the South African Mesnards. The Mesnard history in South Africa alone, is rather romantic and filled with high adventure and drama. I have often wondered whether they may have left traces of their presence in Saint Martin de la Brusque. I hope to be able to go an search there one day. Along with the Mesnard, it seems that there were other Huguenot families-all of which are major South African families today. Families such as Roux (Rousse), Joubert (Jaubert), Malan, Jourdaan (Jourdan), etc. Here also, there appears to be Waldensian connections. They all arrived together in the China. I suspect that they must have mostly come from the same region in France. Perhaps they were all friends. In some cases, there are clues which makes one suspect that some of these families may have been related. If you see even a vaguely possibly connection, I'd like to hear from you. I sometimes get a very vague impression that some of "my" more immediate Mesnard family might possibly have crossed over to America at the time that rest of the clan went to Africa. All sorts of vague clues, but little fact. Still, the truth is probably out there. We all just need to find it. As it turned out, the move to Africa was probably a very good idea. Times were stormy, but on the whole, I think all of these families prospered and flourished at the Cape more than they ever would have in France. Regards, Herman Labuschagne --> (Yes, "Labuschagne" is another Huguenot connection-original spelling "De la Buscagne") Johannesburg, South Africa [email protected] ginal Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 22 September 2003 05:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [HWE] First Timer Thanks for what you do ! My cousin is visiting me in the USA from France and we read a few recent inquiries that urges him to ask for help in finding data on Philippe Mesnard/Philippe Mesnard d' Ayre. of the area Saintongue, France. He was a French Minister married to Francoise Guenon. My cousin would make a good contact for anyone with help. Thanks. From Tom Genung [email protected] ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== Website for the Huguenots-Walloons-Europe list at: http://www.island.net/~andreav/index.html Lots of information, links to other sites, surnames list. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Welcome aboard Tom, and with a post that already has some of our subscribers hitting the keyboards with responses. The more Huguenot / Walloon information the better. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello All and Many, Garth has posed an interesting thread. The Calvinists of Suisse (Switzerland). I would have considered the followers of Zwingli to be more prominent in that country ? However let us see what smidgeoans of information can be dug up. Luberon community also called Vaudois.. well that is a beginning I suppose. This webpage gives us some information http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0530.htm Hmm now this might be of some assistance. A knowledge of the French language may be required http://www.routevaudoisluberon.com And of course there is this URL http://www.rootsweb.com/~chevaud/ Perhaps all of the above is already known but then again, maybe something may be useful. Better still, by the rule of cause and effect, I am sure that others will join in with other snippets. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Thanks for what you do ! My cousin is visiting me in the USA from France and we read a few recent inquiries that urges him to ask for help in finding data on Philippe Mesnard/Philippe Mesnard d' Ayre. of the area Saintongue, France. He was a French Minister married to Francoise Guenon. My cousin would make a good contact for anyone with help. Thanks. From Tom Genung [email protected]

Roy - A fascinating list. Being the greedy person I am I would dearly love to come across a full listing of Huguenot and Walloon Churches, not only in London but throughout the country! Yours Aye Andrew Sellon East Anglia No eel in the well-sanded fist of a cook-maid, upon the eve of being skinned, ever twisted and writhed as an orthodox parson does when he is compelled by the gripe of reason to admit anything in favour of a Dissenter. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's. From: <[email protected]> > "About 1700 there were 35 French churches in London and > suburbs, <snip>