Hi Barbara No, that's it, replies to the mailing list rather than sending them privately which then cuts everybody out of the loop. Do you have a copy of the pamphlet and, if not, do you want a copy - can arrange that for you to happen on Monday when I'm next in. Also might be worth a couple of look ups in some other references that I'm uncovering just in case there may be more references. Regards Tony

Fellow Listers Prompted by Peter's recent plug for the Library, a review of the facilities there. The Library is lodged with the University College London Library's Special Collections at their premises at 140 Hampstead Road, London, ten minute walk north from Euston Square Station. The Library is currently open Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, 10am to 4pm and you need to make an appointment to use it. The Librarian is Donald Pohl, who can be reached at [email protected], tel. 020 7679 5199, answer phone outside of opening times. Non members can use it but have to pay, I think £7.50 for whole or part of the day. Members (Fellows) of course use it free. The greater majority of the printed books are on the UCL main catalogue which can be accessed through www.ucl.ac.uk, via Library. If you have a shelf mark do a general search using Huguenot library ??????. If not, change the field for the general search to title or author and search through that field. However, not all the printed books are catalogued as there is a substantial backlog of non-catalogued material and there are some printed books which are in the process of being reclassified or being given new shelf numbers. The periodicals collection is not wholly catalogued, neither is the pamphlet collection. I'm currently helping Donald reorganise the pamphlets and I'm getting to look through some really neat stuff. Peter, you'd be in your element, 16 and 17th century pamphlets, Calvin et al, came across a copy of Calvin's letter to Knox on Wednesday, dated 157 something, wonderful (but difficult) to read. There are some thoughts around at the moment of having a slightly different structure in the Library and even going to 5 day opening but that is just my suggestion (with some support) to the Council. Saturday opening is not an option because the whole of the Special Collections is closed on Saturday. And the future of the Library at UCL is under consideration as it has to move again fairly soon when the new UCL facility is built. There are no personal facilities at the Library, no eating or drinking facilities, no dispensing machines, the toilets are poor bordering on disgusting (why can't UCL get the bird droppings cleaned off the walls of the gents?). In fact the only thing you can get done there is photocopying and still at a reasonable rate. Hope this helps, any queries, through HWE please, hibernation is NOT allowed. Regards Tony Fuller

Hello, not sure what you mean by contact via the main HWE room. Where would that be? I've only been on this mailing list but am very interested in any information on Gideon Delaune. Thank you Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Fuller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:02 AM Subject: [HWE] Dalaune - additional information > Hi Guys > > Back some months ago we had a thread about Gideon Delaune, the apothecary. > > So, yesterday, whilst I was working with some of the uncatalogued material at the Huguenot Library, helping to put it in order, I came across the Wellcome Foundation Lecture from 1965, Gideon Delaune and his Family Circle. It's 30 pages long and can be copied at very minimal expense. > > If anybody is interested, please contact me via the main HWE room to wake everybody up. > > Regards > > Tony Fuller > > ______________________________

Hi Guys Peter has raised a valid point about articles. The Society is always looking for articles to go in the Proceedings but, it does not look for pieces on family history per se. Instead, it rightly regards itself as a quasi-academic/academic publication and looks for papers on Huguenot subjects rather than genealogies. I'm now on the Editorial Board and am helping the current Hon Editor to see the next two/three editions through the printers. The Proceedings only come out once a year and there is sometimes a queue to get articles in. The Society will publish articles which have not been given as lectures at the meetings and which are not written by Fellows. If you have an article and want it to be considered, send it to me privately as a Word attachment, 4,000 words, double spaced, endnotes NOT footnotes and no cheating by making the endnotes as long as the article and I'll see whether it meets the Society's criteria - but not family histories, short articles on them go in Huguenot Families, which is published twice a year by the Society. If you have anything for that, also can come to me and I'll pass it on, there is not the same criteria attached to those articles. Two sides of A4= will usually suffice for that publication. Regards Tony Fuller

Thank you, Peter. While it doesn't concern my French-Huguenot family (Souplis/de SaintSouplis), it certainly does give us somewhat of an idea of situations that existed at the time and place !! Thank you for a very entertaining piece !! Dori Parsons

Now before we all get settled in our comfy reading chairs, let us take a moment to mention the Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland (http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/), in their library may be found a whole treasure house of information and so if you ever have the chance to drop in then be prepared to be overcome with information. By golly gosh you may actually discover that elusive ancestor. So where were we up to ? Ah yes, the Conspiracy of Amboise in the year 1560. Perhaps for those who are not aware of the world back then, we need to take a small sojourn by way of explaining just who the major players are and what life was like way back then. We have mentioned the DE GUISE family, well a few of them and so lets give the major ones names. Well we now know about Claude the first Duc de Guise. Three of his children are in our story. Marie, she was Mary Queen of Scots mother.. Frank, well we know him already, dastardly character that he was, and Charles, he became Cardinal de Lorraine and died in 1574. Next players are the children of Frank. Henri de Guise, Louis the Cardinal, Charles Duc de Mayenne and Catherine de Montpensier. Ok so now we have the major DE GUISE family players in the story. Others that will receive a mention are Michel de L'Hopital, have to say he was almost a nice man due to blood relatives and all that and more on him later.. Louis de Bourbon (Conde) he turns out to be one of the goodies as do Gaspard de Chatillon, he almost convinced Charles IX that the Huguenots were ok until Charlies mother, Catherine de Medici, got him in the kitchen one day and told him who was who. Jeanne d'Albret married Antoine de Bourbon. Those de Bourbon didn't really know which way to go during those days but in general they were ok. We like Jeanne and with luck we will find out why later in the story. Then of course we will give the 'League' a minor mention. Yes I know fellow Huguenot supporters why give the bad guys a break but we have to show that we are not biased. And how could we have a story about this period without mentioning Anne de Montmorency... now hands up all who got this wrong... HE was Constable of France for awhile. A little like naming your boy Sue I suppose, but maybe Anne was , well bisexual back then ? Now there is one for you budding genealogists, try and explain Anne de Montmorency to your computer software that insists that HE be a HER. Now we have the players, that I am aware of. If you happen to know some more then post away. Maybe your ancestor was making his or her mark in this period in France ? Let us now set the scene. France has had its troubles for awhile now, it is afterall only less than 200 years since the Maid D'Orleans did her thing. Look around your home and try to imagine living in an area of less than 16 square metres or about 250 square feet. Nice comfy dirt floor, cross flow ventilation was open the door and the only window and the constant dampness with wood fire did wonders for your health. Did I not mention the bathroom? Good! they didn't have them either. And that would be a comfy residence for many. The poorer folk had life much tougher. Mind you the "toffs" didn't have life all that much better. Try living in France in a solid stone house or castle in winter, smoky rooms, bad plumbing and no broadband connection. Outside of France the world, as it was known, was also in turmoil. Columbus had only recently found what we now know as the West Indies, even if he was heading for China, Vasco da Gama was rounding Africa on his way to India, the Tsars in Russia were squabbling and some fellows over in Switzerland were trying to come to grips with an idea of protesting against some of the church teachings. So fellow listers let us begin now that we have the scene in our minds. Amboise, located in the Val de Loire region of France a quietly romantic place if ever. Way back in the olden days it is also where Clovis of the Francs sat down with Alaric of the Wisigoths in 503 and signed a peace treaty. Didn't last long but I thought I would mention it anyway. Another claim to fame is that Jeanne d'Arc passed by in 1429 on her to Orléans where she beat the daylights out of the English. Go Joan Go !! oops Leonardo de Vinci lived there from 1516 to 1519. Oh alright then enough of the tour guide back to the conspiracy. Seems that nobody wants to put an exact date on when but I suppose 17th of March,1560 will have to do and Louis de Bourbon, the first one, became mixed up with an idea to bring down the despised De Guise and their influence. Well he, Louis, had only recently converted to being a Protestor but faith and war planning have little in common and as Louis had had some success at Metz against the Spanish in 1552 and St. Quentin in 1557 he actually did know a little about military planning. So he is given credit for hatching the plot. The plot being to kidnap the King. Francois, the second one, then nab Frank De Guise with his brother Chuck the Cardinal and throw the lot in prison and there you go. Huguenots 3 Catholics 0. Well it turns out that history has a way of mucking up a good idea and so when Chuck heard about Lou's idea he managed to get off an email to the good Catholic soldiers to head over to shore up the shed, all before the good guys could organise themselves. Some say 1500 to 1600 Protestants were hung from the battlements and surrounding trees for weeks. Into our story now comes Catherine de Medici and Michel de L'Hopital, but that is for next time. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Guys and Hi Andrea Just to let you know that I'm writing a review of CDRoms with particular Huguenot interests for the next edition of the Hug Soc Proceedings and have given this location as a meeting point for Hug/Walloon researchers - hopefully bring some new members in and get more stimulating conversation going. Its not due for publication until next year, May, but thought I would let you know about the mention in case you have a problem with it. If you have let me know and I'll delete the reference. Regards Tony F

Hello Listers one and all and some, Yes it is a quiet moment on the most beloved of all Rootsweb lists and so I thought that some may require an amusement, my version of a family of France that many would praise. Mind you some of us don't. I shall, in my own style, attempt to not show bias, ok ok I might snigger, but here is a tale of this once mighty family and so that our most admirable concierge doesn't go anywhere near the delete button, an attempt is to be made to relate the story to things Huguenot. It will not be difficult to relate the de GUISE family to Huguenots, as they were in a position to be a cause and an effect on the life of many a good Huguenot. The "cause" was that they saw the Huguenot thought as a threat to their well being. The "effect" was the death, under direct order of some of the de Guise family of the time, of many hundreds if not thousands of good Huguenot folk. Now the early de GUISE family members started out as reasonable folk wanting nothing more than total control of the monarchy of France, the ability to control the church and of course have some influence over how much tax they should have to pay to anyone in authority. As an aside, having a degree of controlling interests in that far off land of Scotland wasn't passed them either. But that is another story, the one about Mary Stuart, and not for this list. So lets begin with a short resume of this clan with some insight as to their thinking. Claude de Guise, or as he was more commonly known, Claude de Lorraine, was set on this earth in Château de Condé on the 20th of October 1496. His father being René II, Duc de Lorraine, and his mother being Philippa de Guelders. Now Phillipa was actually the second wife of René and so Claudes' elder brother Antoine, was of a different mother, and if you are taking notes, that first wife of René was Marguerite d'Harcourt, who in some far off section of our family tree is actually a relative. Now brotherly affection is one thing, not getting on with your brother another. You see, young Claude wanted Lorraine, not just a small slice, but the whole lot! Trouble was Antoine was to receive such, and so we now get to see an early trait of the de Guise family. Claude quite publicly declared that Antoine was illegitimate, not a nice thing to say about your elder brother in those days. But it didn't work and so Claude had to be happy with being Comte de Guise et Aumale, Baron de Joinville and whole bunch of Seigniories. Now most would be happy with their lot in now owning all these peasant farmers and their taxes, but oh no, not this fellow. He toddled off to the court of Francis and by some rather sneaky pieces of corruption ends up a favorite at court. Now Claude was useless, if you ask me, at this sword play. But he took his sword off to fight against Charles V and comes back an almost hero in the eyes of Francis I. Mind you, he was cut to ribbons many a time in battle, so he doesnt count as a D'Artagnan to this writer one little bit. By 1525 we find him taking on the Anabaptists whom he summarily whipped at Lustein on the 16th of May, 1525. This is one of the first times that de Guise would show his true dislike for non Catholic folk. And just to show that it would be in the blood of this clan in future, power that is, Claude had married Antoinette de Bourbon back in 1513. So listers, here we have the beginnings of this mighty dang powerful clan of de GUISE. Money, religious clout and political power over the King. And to top it all off it is said that Rene, you remeber him as being father of, well poor old Rene died of poisoning. Was it a Reformer or was it a son ? Moving right along with this sordid tale we shall drop further good bits about Claude and get to the nitty gritty, François de Lorraine. Some of us of our Leroy clan really do not like this man. But We shall not be bitter here, well not yet. Antoinette and Claude had 8 sons and four daughter, a genealogical nightmare in some ways. François was born at the Château de Bar on the 17th of February, 1519. If Claude was hopeless with the sword then this son was indeed the opposite. Good grief I say something nice about him, cousin Jean-Paul will disown me now. Yes listers, François was very handy, he received a nice little scar at Boulogne in 1545 and from then on was often refered to as "Balafré". He did a real "number" on Charles V at Metz in 1552 and Renty in 1554 after which poor old Charles V abdicated. Frank or François if you will, was not just happy being the big bunny of France he wanted more. So off he went to Italy, having convinced Pope Paul IV that he was a really nice fellow and so the Pope had better be nice to him. Italy was a fun trip but he missed home, and so back to France and decided that his family should help the King, Henry II. There was no love lost between Frank and Henry and their relationship was put to the test by one Diana D'Poitiers. Unfortunately poor Henry II was not long for this earthly paradise and shoved off in 1559. And along came Francis II. Now our De Guise family and this King had so many things in common that it wasn't funny and if it was, then the Guise family soon sorted that out. So enter some good folks to our story. Condé, what a man and of course Coligny. And here listers is where we shall end the first part of this tale of one family and their influence of all things Huguenot in France. Perhaps we will continue and so a mark is made here. In our next story we shall begin with the Conspiracy of Amboise, Francis II dies and Catharine de' Medici turns up. The year is 1560 and being a Huguenot from now on is not good for ones health. If you have some snippets regarding your own family during this period then add to this post, the more we exchange the more accurate history becomes. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Yawning and stretching from a short lived slumber I note a post from that master of all things Huguenot, Fuller the Younger. Ah hah! Stimulating words ? Hmm I shall participate. Mr Fullers son surely does wonders with his investigation of all things Huguenot. I hope that that woman of outstanding concierge ability does indeed give the go ahead for the addition of more subscribers of interest. Mind you I tend to consider all subscribers to have items of interest for the rest of us. I wonder if I would be allowed to write a piece on the de Guise family. Yes, I know they were Catholic, is that Catholic with a small 'c'? Hmm, now that is yet another topic? Returning to an article on the family Guise. Did I make mention that it was from that family that an edict was issued which cost my family dearly for many decades, no they are still not forgiven. As I wrote, no they were not Huguenot but they surely did have a huge effect on many of our Huguenot ancestors and so perhaps a rehash of history might be fun for the HWE list. Now those of you who have been subscribers for some time will know how I view the work of some historians and so perhaps my humble attempts on the de Guise could be worth a giggle or three. Off to the library !!! Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi folks Shirley, I mentioned this to you when we met in Dublin but have not got around to posting it to you. It is one of 5 references to Arabins in the Wagner Wills which is a synthesis of Huguenot Wills from the Canterbury CC, dealing with Huguenot names registered in London until approx 1810. John Arabin, will dated 1720, book E page 83. >From Riez Province, inhabitant of Geneva, beneficiaries wife Margaret Maurice, nephews Charles and Francis Chaix???, nephew Anthony Maurice. John's sister Margaret married to Reynat Gouriner, leaving them all that he has left in France, 2000 livres. Executor his uncle, Alexander Gaudemar. Wagner did not wholly transcribe the wills, just the bits that he thought were relevant, which means that amounts of bequests were frequently missed out. Shirley, the other four are for Bartholomew, 1713, Lt Col John A, 1757, John 1758 and Jane Mary 1780. If you want the details of those, happy to send them on to you via HWE. Guys, please don't send speculative requests for look ups on the wills to the Library, things there are very busy at the moment and the Librarian, who only works 15 hours per week, is just rushed of his feet with the volume of people using the library, one of the reasons I'm trying to help him. Regards Tony Fuller

Hi Guys Back some months ago we had a thread about Gideon Delaune, the apothecary. So, yesterday, whilst I was working with some of the uncatalogued material at the Huguenot Library, helping to put it in order, I came across the Wellcome Foundation Lecture from 1965, Gideon Delaune and his Family Circle. It's 30 pages long and can be copied at very minimal expense. If anybody is interested, please contact me via the main HWE room to wake everybody up. Regards Tony Fuller

Hello Listers : the link below details a large number of French recipients of charitable payments in London in the early 1700s. It's well worth a visit: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~frpayments/Index.htm It's worth plodding through all the entries, rather than using a search tool , since the usual problem of spelling variants is manifest. HTH, Robert Hillier

Hello all, Sorry everyone. Should have been a capital 'I' on index. Try:- http://www.art-science.com/Ken/Genealogy/Patrick/Index.html Best wishes, Ken -- Ken Baldry [email protected] +44 (0)20 7359 6294 17 Gerrard Road Islington London N1 8AY GB Fascinating web site at:- http://www.art-science.com

Hello all, I have finished editing Patrick Delaforce's notes for Volume Two of his 'Family History Research'. He has more-or-less passed it for publication but wants to emphasise the caveat in the Introduction to Volume Two about to what extent this can be taken as reliable. The index to it is in the same place as before:- http://www.art-science.com/Ken/Genealogy/Patrick/index.html Some of you may receive this message twice - my apologies. Any comments would be welcome & any extra information, doubly so. Best wishes, Ken -- Ken Baldry [email protected] +44 (0)20 7359 6294 17 Gerrard Road Islington London N1 8AY GB Fascinating web site at:- http://www.art-science.com

Hello friendly listers, While pondering the deeds of our clan's ancestors it came to mind that this genealogy thing can be difficult. I am imagining just how difficult it must be for those people who had ancestors who performed no remarkable or outstanding deed, did not attend a church or prison, did not emigrate to far flung lands. Imagine ancestors who were simply folks who were born, made an existance of living, and died without any recognition of their being here at all. Some of us are fortunate. Records were maintained for years, decades and in some cases centuries. Some, it would seem, can actually trace their lineage to Moses or some Pharoh. Some are related to Kings and noble folk. But what is there for those who are not? Discovering one's grandparents can be the holy grail. I read from time to time, various misinformations regarding someones pedigree and wonder just how did that person know that some 12th century King was their multiple great grandparent ? Is genealogy the study of pride or do people acknowledge that someone in their line was actually an axe murderer or worse ? I have yet to discover a record that tells just who was the person who pulled the leaver on the guillotine that sent some 16 of my family to the great beyond. But he must have had a name and surely he had family and so who is his descendent ? And for things Huguenot. Which one of you out there has the ancestor who lit the bonfire that sent my ancestor to his death in Bourges or Paris ? Funny how we do not wish to acknowledge those people in our family history. I am sure the ancestors of Jean Vallière, who was burned in August 1523 in Paris would like to know who lit the match ? Opps I have given away who might have been the first Huguenot martyr. Now there goes another topic. Anyway, there you go. A small aside. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Guys Just some feedback on the Dublin Huguenot seminar of last weekend. There were 8 papers on a variety of subjects dealing directly or more loosely with Huguenot Military Officers in Ireland. They ranged from the Hug Soc Williamite Army project team reporting on progress with various aspects of their work, an overview paper from Harman Murtagh on Huguenot Regiments, a briefing on sources available at the venue, The Gilbert Library in Dublin, D Ressinger giving an excellent paper on French naming traditions and two on the Huguenot soldiers in the VOC and English East India Company. And there were all the opportunities to meet people, put faces to names (now I know what Shirley Arabin looks like), chances to meet new people with similar research interests and to get a wider view of the Huguenot military establishment. All in all, for me, a good weekend, lots of intellectual stimulation and great company. The papers were available on the day but there is now a suggestion (nothing more at this stage) that they may be combined with those from the Huguenot Soldiering Conference held in London November 2002 and published in book form. More on that when or if it becomes a firmer proposition. Regards Tony Fuller

Ah hah! With much appreciation to Tony Fuller it appears that Nicholas is the father on Benjamin. And I have some sources to chase after. Thank you kind sir. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Peter Reference in Agnew, p.119: A daughter of the great Du Moulin married Jacques Basnage in 1684. Nothing in Durrant Cooper Paraphrased from Samuel Smiles, p.361, Appendix of Refugees: Nicholas B fled after the St Barts Day massacre and came to England, officiated at the Walloon Church at Norwich, later returned to France (need to access Hug Soc stuff on the Norwich Church for more information) His son, Benjamin, later succeeded him as minister at Charleton and headed Protestant assembly at Rochelle in 1622, being sent to England to solicit support from James I. Author of several works and is now regarded as one of the luminaries of the Protestant faith. His son, Antoine Nicholas' gson, minister at Bayeaux, long imprisoned in Havre de Grace for his faith. After revocation, escaped to Zutphen in Holland where he was Minister, died in 1681. His son, Samuel, Nicholas' ggson, also Minister escaped with his father to Zutphen, succeeding him as Minister Another strand, same source: Henri B was one of the most eloquent members of the Parliament at Rouen. His son, Jacques described as the most eminent of the family. Aged 25 appointed minister of the great Protestant Church at Grand Queville, near Rouen, capable of holding 10,500 people. During persecution, church demolished and he fled to the Hague. Whilst there, involved in politics and highly regarded by Voltaire, regarded as great thinker. His brother Henri, Henri's second son, also an esteemed author who also took refuge in Holland and died there. There you go Peter, more to be getting on with Regards Tony Fuller

Goodness me gracious fellow subscribers, it seems that I may have inadvertently opened a few "doors' that are totally not needed in this mailing list. I shall respond in this way and then will not enter into any further discussion other than the topic of the genealogy of Benjamin BASNAGE. In mentioning Benjamin's Grandson, Jacques and his apparent thoughts and writings on Judaism, some subscribers took up arms by misintepreting my meaning. I would like to beleive that Jacques BASNAGE was a man who had strong thoughts on theological semitism while at the same time preached an equally strong Christian doctrine along the Walloon faith. The other kind of anti-semitism is not for this or any other mailing list to be found on Rootsweb. Theological anti-Semitism is referred to by some historians and scholars as anti-Judaism to emphasize its relationship to the Jewish religion, and to distinguish it from racist anti-Semitism. I do realise how many are not comfortable with any discussion on this point, however we must never deny that the world is full of alternate thought and it is wise to understand that thought even if we oppose such. To deny without knowledge is full of danger. Enough of this, please I shall continue my own private research of the BASNAGE family for pure genealogical knowledge. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hmm well a kind subscriber has offered me a lead as to young Benny (Benjamin) BASNAGE, or closer, to his grandson Jacques in actual fact. And I thank you for the pointer. "Theology, Politics and Letters at the Crossroads of European Civilization:  Jacques BASNAGE and the Baylean Huguenot Refugees in the Dutch Republic".  Written by Gerald Cerny, it was published January 1st, 1987.  Now we really do have a mystery. Benjamin, who is of much interest to our clan, was born in Cherbourg and from yet another source I have already discovered that he was a definite supporter of the Huguenot cause. Somehow, and that is the mystery, his Grandson Jacques turns up as a Walloon pastor in Holland and I wonder how he came to be there ? And isn't Jacques an interesting character ? One of those praise the Lord and pass the ammunition types he appears. Some would suggest that he was also anti-semetic which in some ways goes against my understanding of how a Christian pastor would / should carry himself. Forgiveness and tolerance and all that kind of thinking. Then again this anti semetism carry on had become a real way of denegrating people in those days. If they were seen as not agreeing with Judaism then they were just plain bad folks. I wonder who decided that that was the case ? Funny old world in those times, the majority believe in one religion but if they disagree with a minority they are the bad ones. Go figure, as my Grandson is prone to offer. Now I know much about Benny but who was his father ? Kind Regards, Peter Leroy