Peter and Howard and all - - - - (I am quoting here from a letter received from the noted historian and Genealogist, founder of the Swedish Colonial Society and my distant cousin - Dr. Peter S. Craig.) ". . . . . . . . .I should note, first, that Gloria Dei's church records do not include baptism, marriage and burial records prior to 1750. Such records were kept, but they disappeared after the death of Rev. Nicholas Collin in the 1830s. Therefore, the church itself does not have the capability of providing such information. Information that Andreas Souplis was buried at Gloria Dei church is derived from the will of his second wife, Gertrude, the widow of two Enochson brothers. Gertrude was of Swedish origins, so that she and her children qualified as members of Gloria Dei (Old Swedes) Church. After his marriage to Gertrude, Andreas Souplis also was recognized as a member. Much is known about Andreas Souplis, who became a resident of Germantown by 1686. However virtually nothing is known about his first wife, other than her name was Anneckie Souplis, the name she wrote as a witness to a Germantown marriage certificate on 26 April 1691. She was the mother of all of his children. She undoubtedly came to America with her husband c. 1683-1685. They first lived in New York, where he was granted denization on 17 September 1685. Shortly thereafter, they moved to Germantown in Philadelphia County, where Andreas Souplis was naturalized by William Penn on 7 May 1691. Later, Andreas Souplis, by then a widower, moved with his unmarried children to Aronameck in Kingsessing, where he acquired land from the Yocum family. His daughter Ann subsequently married Charles Yocum, son of Peter Petersson Yocum and his wife Judith Jonasdotter. Andreas himself married widow Gertrude Enochson, who saw to it that he was buried at Gloria Dei church. No tombstone of this burial survives, however. - - - - - -" I am aware that on this list we are to try to keep our postings connected to European searches. With this in mind I entered my query as to how I may verify just a few of the many, many entries concerning my 8xGgf, Andris, in the hopes that my field of endeavor might be narrowed to an area somewhat smaller than all of western Europe !!! Many thanks for all your input, Howard and Peter !!! Dori

Howard and Peter - - - I cannot locate the site where I discovered the statements I posted previously that I am trying to prove. There are two paragraphs which I shall quote here: >From the Records Book of the Merion Meeting of the Society of Friends Gwynedd, Plymouth and Upper Merion Twps., Montgomery County, PA "The families of Suplee and Supplee of Blockley and Merion are descended from Andreas, or Andrew Souplis, a Huguenot who left France at the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes. He first came to the New Netherlands and was a Burgomaster in New Amsterdam. Andrew was a Colonel in the French Army and a native of Alsace-Lorraine. With 30 followers, he escaped toward Germany, all but seven were killed before reaching the frontier. Andris was born in 1634 and died in Philadelphia, 1726, age 92 and is buried at the Old Swedes Church, Wicaco. (Old name for Gloria Dei, Philadelphia.) He was 48 years old when he left France and went to Mulheim, Germany where he met and married Gertrude (Goetra)Stressinger (born1642). Several accounts say he had been married to a woman in France who may have been deceased by this time. He was born in 1634 of distinguished upper class parents and was a Huguenot, a member of the French Reformed Church and not the state church of France. At this time in history there was church and state unity in almost all European countries and to oppose the church was to oppose the government. Compulsory military service was required of every man. To served in the army was to defend the state faith. To oppose the state faith was equal to being a heretic and the penalty for this was death." (Bertine 1988, v II 325,328) (CONTINUED) Dori

Hello All, Thank you Dori for the background information, you certainly have some wonderful documentation for your ancestor Andris SOUPLIS. I would suggest, if you have not already done so, that the Alsace-Lorraine department be your search area as far as geography is concerned. The Military Archives in Vincennes would be a very good place to begin locating his military service records. Being an officer it is possible that they will still have something on him. Hope these thoughts help in some small way. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Guys David, exceptional piece of work, I have no interest in the Fen Huguenots other than academic curiosity but I think that we're all learning so much about this little band of Walloon/Huguenot pioneers, it's great. Edie, your best bet if through the County Record Office for the area covered by the Fens, probably Lincolnshire or Cambridgeshire, especially for the parish records which should by now be deposited with them. Also try a search for the family and place name at the sites www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk, www.a2a.pro.gov.uk which give slightly differing takes on the PRO material, also there are the wills now available through the first address. Hope this helps Tony Fuller

Hello in Much Discussion on this topic. Dori has some interesting research behind and ahead of her due to the many claims and counter-claims concerning this gentleman Howard has offered some sound advice and thought, as usual. I too would like to add some words to this discussion as it may assist. > > "Andrew was a Colonel in the French Army and a native of Alsace-Lorraine". > > > > "In 1682 he left France with 30 followers, escaped > toward Germany, all but seven were killed before > reaching the frontier." Unless promoted from the field he would have attended a military school or university to be able to attain such a rank. OR .. he would have bought the rank. And who were the killers of his men ? > I recommend starting with what you know and trying to > work > back step by step. Yes, totally agree > Another clue is that his wife's name was shown as > "Annecke" on > the 1692 Frey-Levering marriage certificate. > Anneke is a Dutch name. Not necessarily. It, "Annecke" is common to Belgium and even into Alsace. If the name came up while searching Mons or surrounds I would not dismiss it out of hand. > I think most would agree that Andris Souplis was > French-speaking. > Especially when you see later generations spelling the > name Supplee. If he was a Colonel in the army of the Romanists or Huguenots then he would not be able to give orders without speaking French. > So, where would a French-speaking guy meet a Dutch woman before coming to NY? I met a Dutch speaking woman in an elevator in Rio long ago..but that is another story. I would suggest that as Alsace has been mentioned, the chances are that Andre spoke French and some Flemish, while Anneke spoke Flemish and some French. Now the last part of Howards reply has me intrigued. Just when was the Huguenot Army disbanded for good ? And when was Ecole Militaire opened for business ? Hope I have added to the discussion. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hi Dori, From: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:03 PM > Hello all - - -In the records book of the Merion Meeting of the Society of > Friends (Gwynedd, Plymouth & Upper Merion Twps., Montgomery Co., PA) there are > references to Andris Souplis, from which I quote a couple of interesting > statements, as follows: > > "Andrew was a Colonel in the French Army and a native of Alsace-Lorraine". > > "In 1682 he left France with 30 followers, escaped toward Germany, all but > seven were killed before reaching the frontier." Are the above quotes from this site (or its source)? http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/cemeteries/merion06.txt I have read many pages of minutes of the Monthly Meetings of Friends and have never seen anything like the kind of thing you quote above. Remember, these were business meetings. It appears to me that while the burial information may have come from the Friends records, the other "biographical" information is editorial comment. Here is another version of his alleged ancestry (scroll down to p. 49) http://www.geocities.com/lydick_1999/huguenot/huguenot.html That was published in 1901. This may be the source of the spurious Gertrude Stressinger. > Andris is well documented in the New World (Germantown, PA), and we are now > attempting to verify his European whereabouts. Time and place, etc. I recommend starting with what you know and trying to work back step by step. I think all we know about his origin is that his denization occured in New York on 17 Sept. 1685. I've forgotten when he shows up in Germantown, but I think it was not too long afterward. I have looked for him in NY around 1685, but have found nothing. Another clue is that his wife's name was shown as "Annecke" on the 1692 Frey-Levering marriage certificate. Anneke is a Dutch name. I think most would agree that Andris Souplis was French-speaking. Especially when you see later generations spelling the name Supplee. So, where would a French-speaking guy meet a Dutch woman before coming to NY? (Am I right that the estimated ages of their children would show they were married in Europe?) And from what port would a French-speaking guy and a Dutch woman most likely leave from to go to NY about 1685? I would look for them in The Netherlands before 1685. Start with Amsterdam. There are no passenger lists for this time period, but there are Notarial Records that might contain a mention of him and indicate he is about to go to the New World. This would probably require hiring a local researcher. Even better would be to search the Walloon or Leyden Index, available from the LDS. This an index of Walloon, French Reformed, etc. church records in The Netherlands and some other places. With either of these approaches, what you hope for is a marriage record which show where he was born. > Can anyone give me a clue as to how I may go about proving just the > two statements above? I doubt they are true. If he really were a Col. in the French army, why would he be fleeing France and why would others with him be killed? I doubt there were Huguenots who were Colonels in the French army in 1685. :) And Andris sure appears to be a Huguenot (or Walloon). Regards, Howard [email protected]

Andris Souplis, also Saint-Souplis, also de Saint-Souplis. regards, Coral ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: [HWE] SUGGESTIONS FOR RESEARCH - ANDRIS SOUPLIS > Hello all - - -In the records book of the Merion Meeting of the Society of > Friends (Gwynedd, Plymouth & Upper Merion Twps., Montgomery Co., PA) there are > references to Andris Souplis, from which I quote a couple of interesting > statements, as follows: > > "Andrew was a Colonel in the French Army and a native of Alsace-Lorraine". > > "In 1682 he left France with 30 followers, escaped toward Germany, all but > seven were killed before reaching the frontier." > > Andris is well documented in the New World (Germantown, PA), and we are now > attempting to verify his European whereabouts. Time and place, etc. Can > anyone give me a clue as to how I may go about proving just the two statements > above? > > Thank you ! > > Dori > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > Need to unsubscribe but not sure how to do it? > Full instructions are on the list website at: > http://www.island.net/~andreav/unsub.htm. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hello List I recently posted some info to this list from the Introduction of the Thorney French Register, which has been well received, and a big thank you to those who have posted to the list and emailed me privately to this effect. I vividly remember an afternoon about 18 months ago when I first came across the name HANCAR in the Sandtoft Register and thinking I wonder if this is where my ANKER ancestors came from. I then did various readings and searching through numerous PRs, and have put together my theories supporting this, which I will now share with you. The general path There is good evidence supporting a chain of events of which a very brief summary goes something like this; (I am speaking very generally here, just to paint a picture of the relevant facts which relate to my ancestors). Cornelius Vermuyden was awarded a contract to drain the fens by Charles II in the late 1620s. Over the next ten years or so, a number of families were brought over from Holland to assist in the drainage work. The initial influx settled in Hatfield and Sandtoft, but after numerous attacks on this community by the locals, these families started moving to places further south in the Cambridgeshire Fens including Thorney and Whittlesey where there were Hutuenot/Walloon communities which were beginning to be established. My proven direct link so far Through various Baptism, Marriage and Burial PRs, I have tracked my ancestors back to James ANKER who was Baptised in November 1688, son of Isaac, in Ramsey, Huntingdonshire. James is my 6 x Great Grandfather. Ramsey is only 2 or 3 miles from Whittlesey, especially if you go over the fields (so I'm told). There are 4 children of Isaac all baptised in Ramsey between 1683 and 1688. The HANCAR to ANKER connection So, after establishing the general route from Hatfield and Sandtoft to Whittlesey and Thorney, let's see if I can prove that some of these people are the same in both places. The biggest piece of evidence for this is Rachel. A Baptism in the Sandtoft Register (Stovin Manuscript) in March 1672, Rachel, daughter of Isaac HANQUAR and Jenne LEGRAND. In February 1700/01 in Ramsey, Thomas COLESON married Rachel ANKER. In June 1701 there is a marriage in Whittlesey (B/T produced by the Cambridgeshire Family History Society) for Thomas COSOY and Rachel ANCHOR. On the IGI website for the same date, it is recorded as Thomas COSON. The age for this marriage is consistent with it being the Rachel who was baptised in 1672. Also supporting this, is the fact that Thomas and Rachel had 3 children baptised in Whittlesey between 1703 and 1713. There is a slight wobble here however, because the Whittlesey PR as mentioned above, has 2 of these children recorded as CORESON, but, one of them was Isaac, the same name as Rachel's father. So I am making a bit of an assumption that these children are all part of the same family. If that is correct, it further supports my Rachel theory as she would have been in her early 40s when she had her last child. Rachel COLSON was buried in Whittlesey in 1718/19. Therefore, I think I've proved that Rachel ANKER of Whittlesey and Ramsey, is the same Rachel HANQUAR that was baptised in Sandtoft. There are a few other pieces of evidence which show movement between Sandtoft and the Whittlesey area. In the Sandtoft Register there were 2 other children born to Isaac HANCAR and Jenne LEGRAND; Marie in 1651, and Jan (son) in 1656. It is interesting to note the different spelling of HANCAR and HANQUAR (as in the baptism of Rachel). In the Thorney French Register, between 1657 and 1670, there were 4 sons baptised to Jean HANCAR and Jenne DESTRIE. I am thinking that Jean HANCAR and Isaac HANCAR (father of Rachel), could be brothers. Also from the Thorney French Register, there is a very interesting baptism in 1675/76; Judith, duaghter of Isaac ANCAR and Susanne LE FEVRE, and one of the sponsors was Marie HANCAR. This information is from the B/T at Cambridgeshire Records Office. Is this Marie, the same daughter of Isaac HANCAR and Jenne LEGRAND ? And is Isaac her father who has remarried, or could it be her brother ? The other sponsor at this baptism was Jacob VERMEIL. There is a slight wobble with this entry because I have spoken to someone who says that there is no record of this on the LDS film of the Thorney French Register. >From the Hatfield PRs, there was a marriage in 1640 between James VERMEIL and Mary HANCAR. Are these 2 people related to the HANCAR and VERMEIL in the Thorney French Register that I've just mentioned ? The first burial that I've come across in the Cambridgeshire fens relating to my ancestors was for Isaac ANKER in Whittlesey in 1685. I am thinking that this could be the Isaac that was married to Jenne LEGRAND. In Trevor Bevis's book "The Rivermakers" there is a section on the Petition to Oliver Cromwell in the 1650s where it lists James HANCAR and Isaac HANCAR as 2 of the Petitioners, and there is a footnote to say that James remained in Sandtoft and Isaac moved to Thorney. It doesn't say how this deduction is made. In the Hatfield PRs there were 2 burials in December 1671; James HANKER and Isaac HANKER. So, let's jump on the speculation train again, just to try and piece all this together into some kind of picture to suggest a reasonable scenario. The introduction to the Thorney French Register paints a general picture with supporting evidence which I will paraphrase and summarise as follows. The Spanish Inquisition was brought into northern France after the French regained Calais from the English in 1565. French Protestants were exiled from France, and a large number of them stuck together and gradually moved up through Flanders where a number of families were brought over by Corenlius Vermuyden in the 1620s and 1630s to work on draining the Fens They were experienced drainage workers as they had been doing this in France before they were exiled during the Spanish Inquisition. Here's what I think could have happened regarding my ancestors. I've found a number of pieces of evidence that could well link together, but, unfortunately I've no conclusive proof. Let's assume that there was one HANCAR family that came over with the other families to work for Cornelius Vermuyden. The father in this family was called Isaac (I'll refer to him as Isaac the First / Isaac I ). He was buried in Hatfield in 1671. His children were; Mary, who married James VERMEIL in Hatfield in 1640. Jenne who married Oser LEGRAND in Sandtoft in 1650. Isaac (Isaac II ), who married Jenne LEGRAND and they had children in Hatfield and Sandtoft between 1651 and 1672. Isaac was buried in Whittlesey in 1685. James, who's first wife died in Hatfield in 1653. He then married Cicely LAMBERT in Hatfield in 1654. They had a number of children in Hatfield and James died in Hatfield in 1671. Jean (male) who married Jenne DESTRIE and they has 4 sons in Thorney between 1657 and 1670. Roger, who had a son called Roger HANKER in 1665 in Pollington near Snaith, which I believe is in Lincolnshire but not too far from Doncaster. Roger ANCHOR (son of Roger) married Grace RICHARDSON in Whittlesey in 1700. As I mentioned earlier, I have absolutely no proof that these 6 people are siblings, I am just working on the theory that they are part of the same family who came over from Flanders to work with Vermuyden. To try and show how all this could link together, let me take you back to what I actually know, which is what I started this little story with. My 6 x Great Grandfather was James, son of Isaac, who was baptised in Ramsey in 1688. Siblings of James were John and Isaac, baptised in 1683 and 1684 respectively. There does seem to be a possible pattern here, i.e. Isaac had 3 sons called John, Isaac, and James which suggests that they could have been named after his father and 2 of his uncles. Because John is the first son, I am wondering whether Isaac's father is also John. So, just to try and sum this all up in a sentence or two - There's evidence to show that families came over from Flanders to work for Vermuyden. HANCAR was one of these families. Many of these families moved to Thorney and Whittlesey. The name ANKER / ANCHOR first appears in Whittlesey and Ramsey in the 1680s. There was a Rachel HANQUAR baptised at Sandtoft, and a Rachel ANKER married in Ramsey. There was an Isaac HANCAR in Hatfield and Santoft, and an Isaac ANKER buried in Whittlesey. There was a Roger HANKER baptised near Doncaster, and a Roger ANCHOR who married in Whittlesey. I've also looked at things from the point of view of one family coming over from Flanders in the 1630s and built a possible scenario based on this scenario. The question is, when does one have enough circumstantial evidence to be able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. I would be interested to hear anyone's views on this, and if you think I have a good case. Or, you may have spotted something that just doesn't hang together and blows my theories out of the water, but if that is the case, I'd still like to hear from you as I would much prefer to know about it than live in ignorance or hope and pass down misinformation to my descendants. I hope I've not rambled on for too long, and I hope I've given some of you an interesting little read. Just to complete the circle, I live about 30 miles from my Sandtoft ancestors, and that is a pure co-incidence. Thanks for listening Regards David Anker

Hello, Listers Here, Here, Mssr LeRoy, David has done a great job. David your information is incredibly helpful. My family history and falls quite neatly into your descriptions and timeline. Thank you so much! We are the ROBINET/ROBINETT/ROBINETTE ( phonetic spellings: RABINET/ ROBYNNET etc...arggh)family and there are still many of us in and around Whittlesey, Cambridge, Throney, and Peterborough. Bless Bless you! If Santa feels so inclined as to forward any additional materials about the register, the little Robinettes here stateside would be ever so greatful. We found Hearth Tax records in Whittlesey for Mary Robinet and Richard Robinet... oodles of birth records, marriages, deaths for other Robinets, oodles. This is a rare name and it really shows up in the Fens.How might one go about getting info re: Parish records? Does anyone know which select registers and liststhere area for the Fens Folk? ie special tax records, land holdings, work records, schools, etc... Thank you again for your wonderful contribution, Edie Robinette-Petrachi --- [email protected] wrote: > Hello All, > > I wish to most loudly thank David Anker for his > marvellous post regarding the Fens. His work was > exceptional and I am conveying our family of > researchers in many parts of the world, our thank > you. > > Obviously some subscribers on this list will know > much > of their own ancestors and the Fens, if so then > Davids > post will reinforce your own work. > > If your are just arriving at the Reformation, and > your > family history, then Davids post will certainly give > many new hope and confidence that they are on the > right > path. > > Than you David for your post. > > Kind Regards, > Peter Leroy > > > ==== HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE Mailing List ==== > Need to unsubscribe but not sure how to do it? > Full instructions are on the list website at: > http://www.island.net/~andreav/unsub.htm. > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion > online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I forgot to mention that William DELAUNE (1530-1611) was a minister of the Reformed Church in the city of Rheims, where he married Katharine DES LOGES (not sure of the year but before 1565) So what does this mean in terms of legal marriage in France at that time? If there was a church in existance I would think that the marriages would be legal but maybe they had to go through a civil ceremony and then marry in their church? Would appreciate any iinput on this. Barbara

Howard wrote: > > Not understanding the exact time she is talking about, nor > knowing your exact timeframe; it is difficult to tell if this would > apply or not. > Regards, > Howard > [email protected] The DES LOGES connection begins in mid-16th century in Rheims France and I do have some information connecting her to the DELAUNE family so am fortunate that there was at least some information available on these families but you're right it is scarce so far in France. > The Gideon DELAUNE that is missing from his father's will is the one I'm interested in. There are 3 possible Gideons who cropped up in the information I received and I'm looking for the one who was in Ireland in the mid-17th century but Irish records are even more scarce. You are right, there could be many reasons why but I know a first born son Gideon died at the age of 9 and there was a third son born the year of the death of the first one and also named Gideon. I believe this one may have gone to Ireland. That's one of my primary focuses right now but was happy to find the DES LOGES name as I had not had William (Guillaume)'s wife's name until now. Thanks to a list member. I enjoy this list so much. I find the whole Huguenot era fascinating in and of itself and enjoy each member's stories as well. > Best regards, Barbara

The Register of Sandtoft Chapel is lost, but the names of eighty-eight persons, belonging to seventy-one families have been preserved by Stovin, the antiquary, in the document known as the "Stovin Manuscript".* Fifteen of the persons, of as many different families, appear to have removed to Thorney : and members of twenty-two of the remaining fifty-six families are also shown by the register to have made their way to the Bedford Level and joined the French congregation at Thorney Abbey. Some additional names of the Sandtoft community will be found in a document printed in the Proceeding of the Huguenot Society, Vol. ii., page 328; and a few others have been traced in the Calendars of State Papers (Domestic Series), - in all fifty-three families can be identified as having a connection with both Levels. * Now in the possession of Messrs. Baxter & Co., solicitors, Doncaster. It has been printed in the Transcriptions of the Yorkshire Archeological Society, Vol. vii. The names of the fifteen are: Thomas Benitland, Anthony Blancart, Peter Descamps, Peter Egar, James Flahau, Simon le Haire, George Hardick, Josias Harlay, Peter de la Haye, Jean de Lannoy, Isaac de Lanoy, Joel de Lespierre, Anthony Massingarbe, Peter du Quenne, Hosea Tafin. The names of the twenty-two are: Amory, Beharelle, Blique, du Bois, Clais, le Conte, Coquelar, Desbiens, Desquien, le Flour, Fontaine, Frouchart, Gouy, Hancar, le Leu, Marquilier, Renard, Ramery, le Roux, le Roy, le Talle, Vennin. The other sixteen names are : Becue, Caillet, Castell, Descou, Foster, Hennoc, Hernu, le Houcq, le Grand, Mani¾, Morillon, Pinchon, Smaque, Vermeil, du Verlier, Wantier. The late Mr. Francis Bayley, F.S.A., in his Bailleuls of Flanders and Bayleys of Willow Hall, says, in reference to the continental home of the Thorney refugees: "I had ascertained as far as possible that the localities from which the settlers at Thorney came, and with very few exceptions they could be traced to Flanders, Artois and the Pays de Conquis". This statement is indirectly supported by Coussemaker, * a Roman Catholic writer, whose researches amongst the state papers preserved in the archives of France and Belgium are of great value in elucidating some phases of early Huguenot history. From documents quoted by him the names of many of the Protestant families who were resident in these localities, and who were sentenced to perpetual exile during the troubles of 1566-68, have been brought to light. It is a somewhat remarkable circumstance that a large number of persons bearing the same names are afterwards found in the registers of the French Church at Canterbury, and later in the registers of Sandtoft and Thorney. In several instances the place of birth of the refugees forms part of the entry, and where this occurs (chiefly in the Canterbury Register) it invariably agrees with the information furnished by Coussemaker, proving conclusively their place of origin, and frequently supplying a link by which the identity of many of the refugees can be established. Amongst the names thus recorded will be found those of Bailleul, Brune, Becue, Becque, Brunyee, Behague, Cocq, Chavatte, Descamps, de Laurens, du Bois, Desbiens, du Quesne, de la Haye, de Secq, Didier, de L'Escluse, de Houck, Despiez, Faucqenbergue, Fleurbaix, Hancquart, le Talle, Lecluse, Lefevre, Lestienne, Lannoy, le Roy, le Roux, le Conte, Mannier, Mani¾, Oudart, Preuvost, Priem, Pacquette, Revel, Six, Saie, Saye, Senechal, Taffin, Tassell, Van Beveren, Vennin, Vermeille, Wantier, Zwarte. Further confirmation of the localities from which the Thorney settlers came is disclosed in the Register of the Church of Guisnes (printed by the Huguenot Society), which contains nearly every name found in this Register. The Thorney colony thus consisted of those who removed from Sandtoft in Hatfield Chase, with some fresh arrivals from the Low Countries, and others from Canterbury, London, Norwich and other places, probably kinsfolk and friends, who in earlier years had found an asylum in this country. They may roughly be divided into three classes. ............ The third class was composed of men who had capital and who became purchasers of the newly drained lands, and in several instances entered into partnership with the "adventurers". The families of Bailleul, le Conte, Egar, la Pla, Ris, Milleville, Vennin Wanti¾ were landowners, and amongst the best of the Thorney settlers. The intermarriages of members of these families were numerous. This Register, by recording the names of those who stood as sponsors at the baptism of the children, gives many clues to the relationships and friendships existing amongst the refugees. Much may be learned from a careful perusal of this portion of the Register. * Troubles Religieux du XVIe siecle dans la Flandre Maritime, 1560-1570 par Ed. de Coussemaker. HENRY PEET, F.S.A. MOUNT PLEASANT, LIVERPOOL, 1908

Hello Listers I am sharing this information with a few mailing lists connected with Huguenots and Walloons and also the Fens in general. This information is taken from the Introduction to the typed transcript of the Thorney French Register at the Cambridgeshire Records Office in Cambridge, England. These are extracts of the 6 page introduction. Because of it's length, I have put it into 2 emails. Part 1 contains some general history about the French/Walloon colonies that were at Hatfield, Sandtoft and Thorney, and Part 2 contains lists of names that were in the introduction. I hope you find it interesting, useful, and even groundbreaking. Regards David Anker --------------------------------------- This Register contains almost the only record of a colony of French or Walloon Protestant Refugees, whose existence is for the most part forgotten even by their own descendants. The names of these strangers - anglicised and corrupted often past recognition - are still to be found in every village and hamlet throughout the fen-country. .............. There were two great immigrations of Huguenots from Flanders and France. The first commenced a few years anterior to the Massacre on St. Bartholomew's Day (1572) and continued for many years with varying flow, as the persecution waxed and waned. It consisted partly of French and partly of Flemish Protestants - these latter were French-speaking Walloons. The second, and numerically the greater, immigration occurred at the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes (1685) and consisted almost entirely of French Huguenots. The congregation at Thorney, however, does not appear to have received any accession of members at this later period. In the five years next after the Revocation, not a single baptism occurs in any family which was not settled at Thorney before that event. Holland, Germany, Switzerland and England constituted the principal asylums of the exiled Huguenots, especially of those resident in the Northern Provinces of France, many of the refugees passing through Holland on their way to England. In the Low Countries they naturally became adepts in the art of embanking and drainage. It is therefore not surprising that when in England they should be amongst the first to rally to the call of Vermuyden - the Dutch engineer - in the gigantic drainage works he undertook in the fens of Lincoln and the adjacent counties. The two geographical areas associated with the refugees of the fen drainage are, singular to say, neither of them wholly in Lincolnshire - a county which to this day is popularly, though erroneously, known as one of "flats and fogs and fens". Both areas are on its borders at opposite ends of the shire. The Level of Hatfield Chase, extending over a portion of the Isle of Axholme at the extreme N.W. corner of the county, is partly in Yorkshire, whereas the Great Bedford Level, within the Isle of Ely, at the S.E. corner of the county, is almost wholly within the county of Cambridge. ................ Many of the Thorney settlers came from the Level of Hatfield Chase; there is however, no evidence to show that at any one period there was anything in the nature of a general migration from one Level to the other. On the contrary it was rather an instance of the removal of isolated individuals of the community, and at different times. The period, too, over which this removal extended was a much longer one and began at an earlier date than has generally been supposed. The drainage of Hatfield Chase was commenced in 1626. Two years later, as a result of the persecution which Richelieu renewed against the Huguenots, eighty families resident in Walloon Flanders fled to England and settled in this Level. Seven years later (1635) there was another large influx of artisans and agriculturists from Normandy and the Walloon country. The disturbed condition in which the Isle of Axholme remained for nearly twenty-five years and the general insecurity of property had undoubtedly the effect of driving away the more timorous at a very early period, to be followed by a constant leakage from time to time. The native inhabitants were from the first hostile to the drainage of the Level, alleging that the "participants" * were robbing them of their "right of common". Between the years 1628 and 1631 there were fourteen outbursts of violence. This was happily followed by nine years of comparative repose, but in 1642, the year of the commencement of the Civil Wars, the whole district was plunged in a condition of greater lawlessness than ever. During these troublous times the agitation was renewed again and again, and finally culminated in the great riots of 1650, when the chapel at Sandtoft was defaced, the little village which had grown up around it demolished, the floodgates pulled up and the waters of the Trent once more allowed to overflow the Level. It is highly probable that at this period a considerable number of the refugees shook the dust of Axholme off their feet forever and determined to try their fortunes in the fens and marshes of the Bedford Level. The French Church first began to assemble at Thorney two years later (1652), and there are other circumstances, of small moment in themselves, but which, taken collectively, are conclusive in the light they throw upon the origin of the Thorney colony. ..................... These early stragglers from Hatfield congregated at Whittlesey, a place more centrally situated with regard to the whole drainage than Thorney, and here the first French Church in this district was established. There was perhaps another reason which influenced them in selecting Whittlesey as their place of residence. In this parish there are two tracts of fenland known respectively as "Willow Hall Land" and "The Commons," which appear to have been set out and offered for sale in lots of fifteen acres. Several lots were purchased by the more prosperous of the refugees, who then became small freeholders. It was an early attempt at peasant-proprietorship, or allotments, and the result was eminently satisfactory. The Willow Hall estate was much nearer to the village of Eye, in Northamptonshire, than to either Whittlesey or Thorney, which will in a measure account for the number of refugee families found at a later period living in that village, although they continued members of the Congregation which assembled at Thorney, and their names are entered in this Register. ............... On the 26th day of May, 1654, a month after the proclamation of peace between England and the United Provinces of the Low Countries, Cromwell issued an Ordincance "for the better preservation of the works of the Great Level of the Fens," which contained this clause: "if any person or persons of a foreign nation, in league and amity with the Commonwealth, being Protestants, shall become purchaser or farmer of any lands, part of the said 95.000 acres, the said person or persons, their heirs, executors and administrators, shall be accounted free denizens of this Commonwealth, and enjoy the like privileges and advantages for descent to their children, dower to their wives, and otherwise, as denizens of this Commonwealth ought to enjoy". This was practically an invitation to the Protestant refugees from Flanders, and it had undoubtedly the effect of directing the flow of the proscribed foreign Protestants towards Thorney, as well as of attracting those who in earlier years had settled at Sandtoft and other places. There is also the authority of the Italian historian, Gregorio Leti, who wrote in 1683 concerning the origin of the Thorney colony, and this at a time when many of the first settlers were still living, and could speak of the circumstances he records. He says "that some Frenchmen who had rented lands in the county of Yorkshire, near to Doncaster, having been molested by the peasantry of the place, heard that the Earl of Bedford possessed an estate here (Thorney) which was almost uninhabitable, and resolving to make their fortune by industry, they asked him to let them rent it (now more than forty years ago) that they might drain and cultivate it. The Earl had no hesitation in granting a request so advantageous to himself, and making certain honourable conditions with the Frenchmen, he allowed them to commence, and after immense fatigue and expense, they drained the greater part of it." There is apparently some slight discrepancy in his dates, but the fact that many of the Sandtoft settlers did remove to Thorney is established, and this is confirmed by the similarity of the names of the persons occupying the two Levels.

Hello List It was with great interest that I read the various posting which begun about a week ago concerning Huguenots and Walloons in the Fens I resisted replying at the time as I was in the middle of already putting something together from the introduction to the Thorney French Register, which contains some historical facts and some lists of names I'm posting what I have put together, separately, as I am sending it to the Fens mailing list as well, just in case there are some names on the lists that give someone some new inspiration If anyone wants a copy of the introduction to the Thorney French Register - well you can't have it because it's copyright - but email me anyway and i'll note your interest (<g>, wink, wink,) and you never know, santa might just come a little early. The reason why I copied it in the first place is that I have a visual impairment and now that I have it in Word, I can much more easily navigate the document to digest all the information, which, I consider to be a reasonable adjustment within the Disability Discrimination Act (just for the record in case anyone thinks i'm being a naughty boy) At a later stage (and when I've finished writing it), I'll post a little article i've thrown together showing how I believe I am linked to the Hancar in the Sandtoft colony Regards David Anker

Hello All, I wish to most loudly thank David Anker for his marvellous post regarding the Fens. His work was exceptional and I am conveying our family of researchers in many parts of the world, our thank you. Obviously some subscribers on this list will know much of their own ancestors and the Fens, if so then Davids post will reinforce your own work. If your are just arriving at the Reformation, and your family history, then Davids post will certainly give many new hope and confidence that they are on the right path. Than you David for your post. Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Hello all - - -In the records book of the Merion Meeting of the Society of Friends (Gwynedd, Plymouth & Upper Merion Twps., Montgomery Co., PA) there are references to Andris Souplis, from which I quote a couple of interesting statements, as follows: "Andrew was a Colonel in the French Army and a native of Alsace-Lorraine". "In 1682 he left France with 30 followers, escaped toward Germany, all but seven were killed before reaching the frontier." Andris is well documented in the New World (Germantown, PA), and we are now attempting to verify his European whereabouts. Time and place, etc. Can anyone give me a clue as to how I may go about proving just the two statements above? Thank you ! Dori

Hello Dori, Have you searched through the HWE Archives ? I seem to remember the name SOUPLIS being mentioned some time ago ? Kind Rgeards, Peter Leroy

Hi Barbara, Peter, and all, From: "Barbara" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 1:49 PM > Peter wrote: >> > > ... although now I am willing to promote the > > idea that early (prior to) Calvinist marriages were > > legal. (now to try and explore any other reason for > > that batard Leroy child being omitted from a will.) > Hi Peter, > > I, too, have just discovered that a pivotal relative was left out of his > father's will so I have a new mystery to pursue ... Gwenn Epperson in _New Netherland Roots_, p. 95 in a chapter on searching in French parish registers says: "Protestant records also begin in the sixteenth century, but are very rare, since the records were illegal until 1789. Therefore, many Protestants are recorded in Catholic registers, as marriage by a Catholic priest was required to inherit property." Not understanding the exact time she is talking about, nor knowing your exact timeframe; it is difficult to tell if this would apply or not. There are many reasons someone could be left out of a will; our first inclination is usually that the omitted person was dead. But Kenn Stryker-Rodda in "Our Willing Ancestors" (National Genealogical Society Quarterly, vol 52 (Mar 1964), pp 3-13, writes in a section titled "Accuntuate the Positive!" : "Although there is no source more valuable than wills for the establishment of relationships, we must trust only positive evidence: that is, we must not assume that a man who mentioned his children but not his wife was a widower, nor should we jump to the conclusion that a child known to have existed a short time before must have died because not referred to in the will." He then goes on to mention several other things that could cause a child not to be named, which I paraphrase: 1) They may have already gotten their share when they married 2) There was cause for displeasure 3) They were presumed dead because of a long absence 4) They were simply forgotten 5) They were omitted when the will was copied into the will liber. Regards, Howard [email protected]

Hello All, I think it was Suz who was asking about this name although I do believe that the date is long before the time she was asking about and in France ? Another reason for throwing this fellow into the discussion pot is due to the reference abount the French East India Co. I know someone who likes to mess about in boats from that time on this list. Now back to reading about one Pierre CHARROn and wasn't he an interesting character ? CHARPENTIER, FRANCOIS (1620-1702), French archaeologist and man of letters, was born in Paris on the I5th of February 1620. He was intended for the bar, but was employed by Colbert, who had determined on the foundation of a French East India Company, to draw up an explanatory account of the project for Louis XIV. Charpentier regarded as absurd the use of Latin in monumental inscriptions, and to him was entrusted the task of supplying the paintings of Lebrun in the Versailles Gallery with appropriate legends. His verses were so indifferent that they had to be replaced by others, the work of Racine and Boileau, both enemies of his. Charpentier in his Excellence de Ia langzie fran Qaise (1683) had anticipated Perrault in the famous academical dispute concerning the relative merit of the ancients and moderns. He is credited with a share in the production of the magnificent series of medals that commemorate the principal events of the age of Louis XIV. Charpentier, who was long in receipt of a pension of 1200 livres from Colbert, was erudite and ingenious, but he was always heavy and commonplace. His other works include a Vie de Socrate (1650), a translation of the Cyropaedia of Xenophon (1658), and the Trait de la peinture parlante (1684). ---------------------------- Kind Regards, Peter Leroy

Peter wrote: > ... although now I am willing to promote the > idea that early (prior to) Calvinist marriages were > legal. (now to try and explore any other reason for > that batard Leroy child being omitted from a will.) > Kind Regards, > Peter Leroy Hi Peter, I, too, have just discovered that a pivotal relative was left out of his father's will so I have a new mystery to pursue thanks to some new information provided by a list member which did not pertain to Huguenot information thus was offline. Perhaps I have a blacksheep to discover? That would be interesting as well. I have also discovered his grandmothers family was Des Loges (Katharine). Perhaps from the Rheims area as well. Is anyone on the list searching that line? If so, would appreciate any information you may have. Regards, Barbara Engel > >