My maternal grandfather, Thomas Jefferson Howell, was born in 1863 in Union Parish Louisiana (my some hard work I was able to prove this). However, he was the reason I began my genealogy journey. The story that was always told to me and had been handed down through my mother's family was that he "just appeared" in the community in 1900 and married my grandmother, Nancy Ellen Raborn, when he was 37 and she was just 17. Through research, I found that he was living with his mother and stepfather just 3 farms away from my grandmother's family! This is one of those time when I so desperately wish for that 1890 census. The only reason I can account for the story about the "appearance" is that possibly Thomas Jefferson went to Texas after 1880 to be with his half-brother, Thomas Sherrer. Now I am thinking that I certainly hope that I do not find another family in Texas for this grandfather! Ruth Stout

My grandmothers oldest brother James Franklin Howell, he was known as Frank, and was born 10-27-1871 in Washington Co., Pennsylvania. He married Mary Anna Moyers abt. 1897 and had two daughters in Washington Co., Pa. In 1908 he left his home for the train station to go on a business trip, family says he was an insurance agent, and he was never heard of again. The family didn't know what his distination was, but no one saw him at the train station, and family always thought that he was murdered?? Paula Chodacki http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/h/o/Paula-L-Chodacki/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen" <ladyaudris@earthlink.net> To: <HOWELL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:30 AM Subject: [HOWELL] COLLEEN'S OCTOBER CHALLENGE > Hi everyone, > > Quiet... that's what you all are! Sounds like a good challenge is in order. > > October... and Halloween... witches, goblins, ghouls... things that go > 'bump' in the night ~ > > We all know about Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." > Let's do a takeoff on that and make this a month of legends, customs and > strange stories about our ancestors and/or families ~ a month of tales. > > Some ideas: > > ...does your family have any odd customs? sayings? > > ...was anyone in your family present when historic events took place? > > ...did any of your ancestors "just miss" a tragic event in history? > > ...why has your family deemed that particular early relative 'weird', > 'odd', or 'strange'? > > ...the story goes that "Uncle (or Aunt or great-grandfather/mother) > Soandso ...and was never heard from again." > > Don't like any of the above? How about... > > ...telling us about an ancestor who (ahem) stepped 'aside' the law ~ a > villain, criminal, or miscreant? (This one might get you into the > International Black Sheep Society of Genealogists [IBSSG].) > > That ought to get some discussion going here. :) > > Kindly remember though, that we do NOT discuss living people. (Of > course, saying something like "my mother [or father] told me about..." > is perfectly acceptable.) > > > Colleen >

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [HOWELLS-SOUTH] Early Co., GA Fireball Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:23:52 -0600 Resent-From: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:23:41 GMT From: arthurus@juno.com Reply-To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Have you ever seen a fireball lightning? It is a round moving ball of fire, usually caused by lightning. My HOWELL great grandparents lived in Blakely, Early Co., GA on the main street that faces the Blakely Cemetery. They were William "Hiram" HOWELL and his lovely wife Annie "Seabie" THOMPSON HOWELL. I don't know what it was about that location, but twice in our family history a FIREBALL rolled through that house. In about 1933, my dad was playing with brothers, cousins and neighbors in the yard outside the house. A loud crash of thunder sent them scurrying for the house. As they ran for the porch, a ball of fire beat them there, went through the screened door, through the living room, dining room and kitchen before exiting the back screen door. There was no other lightning or thunder that day and it did not rain. Both screen doors had scorched circles on them and there was a fine layer of ash in a path through the house. The cook threw her apron over her head and refused to work for the rest of the day. She thought haints were coming out of the cemetery. Later, in 1956, on Thanksgiving Day, we had just begun eating dinner when we heard distant thunder. It was a hot day and the doors and windows were open. As my mother and grandmother began to close windows against approaching rain, the front door slammed back against the wall and a fireball raced through the house and out that same back door. Once outside, it disappeared. It was quite frightening to this small girl, especially all of the screaming grownups. Dot in FL ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ==== HOWELLS-SOUTHERN Mailing List ==== Need to reach Colleen, the discussion coordinator? Send her an email at <ladyaudris@earthlink.net>. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

In a message dated 10/5/03 2:27:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, marquis@cablelynx.com writes: He was never heard from again. Talk about a brick wall! I keep wondering whether the Indians or a "bar" got him. Surely would love to know. BTW, they were both Howells, as am I. And I feel sure there are more of these happenings. In my wife's Weaver family (from Bandera Co., TX) an uncle had "family problems" and disappeared from Kimble Co., TX in 1884. His name was David Iverson Weaver, b. June 21, 1846 in Alabama. No one alive now knows exactly what kind of problems it was or who he had those problems with. Did he wind up getting shot and buried in an unmarked grave? Did he shoot someone and spend the rest of his life living under an assumed name? All we know is what I wrote above but it is interesting to speculate, interesting to construct different scenerios and play them out. Hopefully, there will be a break through someday and a DNA test will prove one line of Weaver's is related to another. Grant Johnston "The nice part about living in a small town is that when you don't know what you're doing, someone else does." -- Unknown,

I picked up a great picture of Jack Iverson that was taken at a studio in Tacoma, WA. Could he be one of yours? My guess is it was taken in the very early 1900's. I am not related nor do I know anything about this family. Priscilla -----Original Message----- From: GWJCAL@aol.com [mailto:GWJCAL@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:46 PM To: HOWELL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HOWELL] COLLEEN'S OCTOBER CHALLENGE In a message dated 10/5/03 2:27:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, marquis@cablelynx.com writes: He was never heard from again. Talk about a brick wall! I keep wondering whether the Indians or a "bar" got him. Surely would love to know. BTW, they were both Howells, as am I. And I feel sure there are more of these happenings. In my wife's Weaver family (from Bandera Co., TX) an uncle had "family problems" and disappeared from Kimble Co., TX in 1884. His name was David Iverson Weaver, b. June 21, 1846 in Alabama. No one alive now knows exactly what kind of problems it was or who he had those problems with. Did he wind up getting shot and buried in an unmarked grave? Did he shoot someone and spend the rest of his life living under an assumed name? All we know is what I wrote above but it is interesting to speculate, interesting to construct different scenerios and play them out. Hopefully, there will be a break through someday and a DNA test will prove one line of Weaver's is related to another. Grant Johnston "The nice part about living in a small town is that when you don't know what you're doing, someone else does." -- Unknown, ==== HOWELL Mailing List ==== Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list.

You really hit me with your challenge. My paternal grandfather was wounded on July 3, 1863 at Gettysburg and lived past his 98th birthdayl His grandfather married and had a baby son. When that child was a few months old the Daddy left him with his grandparents and left for Tennessee. He was never heard from again. Talk about a brick wall! I keep wondering whether the Indians or a "bar" got him. Surely would love to know. BTW, they were both Howells, as am I. And I feel sure there are more of these happenings. Jo Howell Marquis

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Howell's of TN Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:30:04 -0600 From: M.E.Sorensen <JSORENSEN4@cfl.rr.com> To: <HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com> Don't know if this will be of help to anyone, but might give a clue. I have a newspaper article from Maury Democrat, Columbia TN dated Dec 2 1960. It's the obit of Margaret Green Salmon dtr of Jordan and Nettie Tucker Green. Survivors are sisters, Mrs Mable Howell of Nashville TN and Mrs Jerry Hughes of Columbia. Mrs Howell would have been wife of Herbert Howell. Don't know if Herbert Howell was still living at that time. Haven't done any research on that line. M.E. jsorensen4@cfl.rr.com

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: October Challenge -- Joe Vance Howell (or is he?) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 08:35:33 -0600 From: Jim & Tracy Howell <3howells@charter.net> To: <howells-southern-l-request@rootsweb.com>, <howell-l-request@rootsweb.com> Hi everyone. I think I've posted this before, but it fits with this month's challenge (and is STILL my brick wall), so here it is: My father-in-law and his father have told the story that Joe Vance HOWELL (b. WFT est. 1821-1850 TN; m. Sarah "Sally" BUTLER 17 Aug 1871 Washington Co., TX; d. 19 June 1916 prob. TX) was a twin. He fled to TX from TN after he thought he shot and killed another man during a "duel" (probably more like just an argument). Supposedly the other man never died, he just had a flesh wound and recovered, however, Joe Vance had already fled by this time. Now, the problem is, that everyone thinks he changed his name after he fled to TX....so Joe Vance HOWELL may actually be someone else! Hence the brick wall. That's the story...now the question...I'm sure others of you have dealt with this kind of situation before (name change)....I have been able to find VERY LITTLE info on ol' J.V. Howell (which is what he typically went by)....any suggestions on what to look for, how to look, etc what with the potential name change and all? Thanks! Tracy Howell Jim & Tracy Howell Sun Prairie, WI

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [HOWELLS-SOUTH] Howells Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:44:23 -0600 Resent-From: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:37:26 -0500 From: Rayford Wallace <rayfordlwallace@valornet.com> Reply-To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Everyone, I guess that I'm what Colleen calls a "newby." This is my first try at making a contribution. My name is Rayford Wallace. My mother was Bessie Howell, daughter of Ralph Allen Howell Jr., son of Ralph Allen Howell Sr., son of Alfred Howell, brother--I believe of R.B.C. Howell, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Nashville from 1815 to 1850. Both being only a hop and a skip off of Ethelred Howell. In response to Colleen's "October Challenge," Alfred was himself a pioneer Baptist missionary preacher in Jackson County, Alabama. His two sons, Crawford and Ralph Allen were also Baptist preachers/pastors. Ralph Allen Howell, my great-grandfather pastored--among other churches--the New Hope Baptist church in Big Coon Valley in Jackson County. He lived on top of what was then known as Howell Mountain south of the valley. He was a Baptist farmer-preacher. Across Big Coon Valley was another mountain on which Martin V.B. Culver lived. Martin was my other great-grandfather. He was a moonshiner. Ralph Allen's son, also Ralph Allen, married Martin's daughter Parallee. It was a case of the preacher's son marrying the moonshiner's daughter. They produced 12 children. The oldest was my mother, Bessie Lee (Howell) Wallace. Alfred came to Alabama from North Carolina. My mother was born in Big Coon Valley in 1904. The family moved to Okmulgee County, Oklahoma, in 1920. Does anyone have any information on the Culver family in Jackson County. I would be particularly interested in Martin's mother. My uncle, shortly before his death, told me that she was "an Indian woman." We have some documentation that she was Cherokee. Does anyone have any information on Martin's wife's family, the Reese's of Big Coon Valley? Her name was Elizabeth. My mother told me that she was "full-blooded Irish" and that she was "blonde" and "slight-built." Rayford Wallace P.S. Until only a few months ago, I hardly knew what a computer was. I'm still very much a computer illerate and I will probably make some mistakes. In advance, forgive me. ==== HOWELLS-SOUTHERN Mailing List ==== Please avoid flaming (attacking) any single person or the group. This infraction will earn you immediate removal from the list. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi everyone, Quiet... that's what you all are! Sounds like a good challenge is in order. October... and Halloween... witches, goblins, ghouls... things that go 'bump' in the night ~ We all know about Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." Let's do a takeoff on that and make this a month of legends, customs and strange stories about our ancestors and/or families ~ a month of tales. Some ideas: ...does your family have any odd customs? sayings? ...was anyone in your family present when historic events took place? ...did any of your ancestors "just miss" a tragic event in history? ...why has your family deemed that particular early relative 'weird', 'odd', or 'strange'? ...the story goes that "Uncle (or Aunt or great-grandfather/mother) Soandso ...and was never heard from again." Don't like any of the above? How about... ...telling us about an ancestor who (ahem) stepped 'aside' the law ~ a villain, criminal, or miscreant? (This one might get you into the International Black Sheep Society of Genealogists [IBSSG].) That ought to get some discussion going here. :) Kindly remember though, that we do NOT discuss living people. (Of course, saying something like "my mother [or father] told me about..." is perfectly acceptable.) Colleen

To add to the previous post...... on the 1850 census, a Jane Howell is found in Buncombe Co. NC living with the family of John M Owens. I assume this is one of the siblings I mentioned. Keith Bailey

Hi all, The following information came from an old piece of paper my Nancy E. Howell Bailey had behind a framed photo. Does anyone recognize these Howells connected to your family? In 1850 Nancy and her sister Eliza were living with some Cannon's in Pickens Co. SC. Joseph Abner Howell born Dec. 8, 1828 Eliza Haselton Howell born Sept. 26, 1830 Sarah Ann Elisabeth Howell born August 7, 1833 Nancy Elvina Howell born January 8, 1836 Laura Jane Howell born January 7, 1839 William Henry Harrison Howell born June 18, 1841 Keith Bailey

The following obituary appeared in the Herald-Disptach of Huntington,WV on Tuesday 9 Sept.2003.Her death was in Prestonburg, Kentucky. I do not have any information of this lady, nor is she is a relative of mine. It may be of interest to someone though. ANNA BELLE HOWELL, 80, of Prestonsburg, wife of John Howell, died Monday in Highlands Regional Medical Center. She was a homemaker. Funeral 11 a.m. Thursday, Carter Funeral Home, Prestonsburg; burial in Collins Family Cemetery, Prestonsburg. Visitation 5 to 9 p.m. today at the funeral home.

Hello everyone, I have been going up my family tree trying to tie in the families of the mothers. I've finally started digging into my Howell family and found a possible connection to the Cannon family. As such, I am posting this message to both lists, so please excuse the excess and if anything sounds familiar, let me know. On the 1850 census in Pickens Co SC, a person who seems to be my ggg-grandmother, Nancy Howell (16), was living in the household of James Cannon (66) and his wife Mary (70). The next household is that of whom I assume to be James' son John Cannon (29) his wife Elizabeth 28 and there children Warren 12, John 10, James N. 7, Silas 5, and then there is an Eliza Howell (20) living in his Household. Has anyone researching these Cannon Families seen any probate records mentioning the Howells? Where were they in 1840? Does anyone have a missing Howell family from that area of SC? Family says Nancy Howell married Jordan N. Bailey in Pickens co.SC in Dec 1854, there oldest son William H. being born in March. 0n March 20, 1874, Nancy and Jordan had a son Warren Cicero born in SC. Not long after that, Nancy and Jordan must have moved down to Bartow / Gordon Co. GA to be near his sister Margaret Bailey Stone. Family says their father Louis Bailey walked all the way from SC to see visit, arriving on July 3, 1874; he was exhausted, he eat supper, went to bed, and died in his sleep. I do not know if Nancy and Jordan moved before or after his father's death. It is possible they came together. Other Howells live in the area, but I have seen no relation. This is all I know of the Howell family. I thought it peculiar that Nancy named a son Warren and John Cannon also had a son Warren. Any information you think might would be helpful would be appreciated. Keith Bailey

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [HOWELLS-SOUTH] Re: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-D Digest V03 #60 Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:24:39 -0600 Resent-From: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:24:42 EDT From: SHStu@aol.com Reply-To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com To: HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com Bill Miller, Thanks for that posting on the boundaries of NC & SC. I've also printed off your note on your BURDIG HOWELL & will keep. I thought when I learned the name of my g-gf, CASWELL HOWELL, that I was "home free" on finding all sorts of info on him - NOT! Less than common given names do not seem to help sometimes with HOWELLs..... In checking HISTORICAL COLLECTIONS OF GEORGIA by Rev. George White, M.A.: pg 292 CAMPBELL COUNTY "Among the instances of longevity are the following: -...JOSEPH HOWELL, 99; ....." There are other HOWELLs/HOWELs in this book, but see no THOMAS HOWELL; no BURDIG HOWELL. As for Gwinnett County info - laid out by the Lottery Act of 1818; part taken from Jackson, 1818; part set off to De Kalb 1822; part of the ceded territory added, 1822. [here in GA, our county is written as Dekalb - not as above.] There are also names given as examples of longevity here, but no HOWELLs. >From GREENE COUNTY, GEORGIA - LAND RECORDS, DEEDS 1785-1810 abstracted by Freda R. Turner. page 484: Deed Book BB " page 725: Greene County, State of Georgia. I, PATSY HOWELL, widow of Greene County, give to THOMAS HOWELL for good will toward my son, a certain negro man named Sam, and one horse and saddle, to be given to him when he arrives at lawful age. Valued at $100. Recorded 28 May 1808." This doesn't sound like it could be your guy's wife, but thought you might like to see this......also there are 3 more of those to each of 3 more children - I'm just posting the names the other children: WILLIAM HOWELL; GENNEY HOWELL; POLLEY HOWELL, not quoting each item. If you need to see any one of those, will be glad to post as given.... pg 179 [from above book on Greene Co, GA] page 261: GREENE COUNTY, STATE OF GEORGIA. EPHRAIM PRICE, Tax Collector of Greene County, sold to JOSEPH HOWEL of Hancock County as highest bidder at public sale, $7.50 for 300 acres of land in Greene County, part of a 700-acre tract granted to WAGNON. Given to Tax Receiver by WILLIAM BYLEY for SAMUEL WILLIAMSON. Wit: WILLIAM WRIGHT. Recorded 5 October 1796. Maybe if these don't help you, they might be of help to some others...... Sarah Howell Studstill ==== HOWELLS-SOUTHERN Mailing List ==== To post messages to the Howells-Southern discussion list, send them to HOWELLS-SOUTHERN-L@rootsweb.com ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear Howells, this is possibly a long shot, but I am trying to find some information on my paternal ggmother, Frances Mary Howell. She married my ggfather, Frank DICKINS, on 19 April 1891. According to the marriage cert., she was aged 19 and a spinster. We also know that she was seven (or so) months pregnant at the time with their first child, Florence. Her father is listed on the cert. as Henry HOWELL, a butcher by occupation. Frances and Frank were residing at 21 Park Street Marylebone at the time of their marriage. Her father did not bear witness to the marriage - it was witnessed by Frederick Elder and Lizzie Labine (mutual friends, perhaps?). Although I have subsequently been able to trace my ggfather's history back a further two generations, the trail has gone completely cold on Frances. The only other information I have is that she appears, with Frank, on the 1901 census, at 8 York Road, Southall, MIddx, aged 29, occupation "Mannequin", and that she died 18 January 1923, aged 51. Her date of birth would, therefore, be either 1871 or 1872, but I can find absolutely no trace of her birth being recorded. Neither can I find her or her father on the 1881 census. A long shot, like I said, but do any of you Howells out there have Frances or Henry in your history? Kind Regards, Derek Dickens Norfolk, UK (note the spelling - my ggfather's employer apparently changed his surname to DickENS on the pretext that he was illiterate and everybody knew of the author Charles Dickens!)

Hello Howells, I jumped in and started posting to the group without even telling who I was researching. My former posts concerned Joseph HOWELL of Cabarrus Co., NC. I'm not a descendant of his but of a man who appears to have been a relatively close associate (maybe first cousins?). My man is Burdig HOWELL and records on him are pretty rare. Some records that I found in Georgia give a pretty good indication that his name was really Thomas HOWELL. <G> Boy, *that* narrows it down a lot! It was just my luck that he used the name Burdig when his daughter Sarah married Charles BURCH in Richmond Co., GA, in 1797. It is through this marriage that I am descended. On 7 Jun 1766, Burdig and Joseph are listed as foot soldiers in Capt. Adam Alexander's Co. of militia, Clear Creek, NC (in Mecklenburg). Officers: Lieut Charles Polk; Ensign James ; Sergt Thomas MacFaddon; Sergt William Blair; Sergt Jno. Ford; Corp Jno Culberson. Foot Soldiers: ---- (If my record is correct, there are 86 names including Burdig and Joseph HOWELL and they are the only two Howells in it) ---- (Source: Colonial Records of North Carolina, Vol 22, pg 396) In early 1771 or before, both Burdig and Joseph obtained land on Rocky River in Mecklenburg Co., NC, in what was described as being in Tract #2. It was listed as being bought from Abner NASH and wife Justina with Clement NASH being a witness and serving to prove it. These records were obtained from two sources. One being the book "Mecklenburg Co., NC, Deed Abstracts 1763-1779". The other being from a lady who graciously copied them for me in Mecklenburg Co. (the courthouse, I presume). I learned later that Abner NASH was governor of NC during the 1780s and that he had married Justina Davis DOBBS. The question I wanted to ask, is if anyone on the group has ever seen land (in this time frame) listed in this manner? If so, would you explain the whys and wherefores of it to me? In all my digging around, this is the first and only time I've run into it. I mean, in that particular time period. Anyhow, Burdig later sold his land and, I think, moved off somewhere else. Joseph remained there. In the end, Burdig wound up living in Gwinnett Co., GA, and Joseph next door in Campbell Co., where they each passed on. I doubt whether anyone has any information on Burdig (under that name or its various spellings) but, if by chance you do, I would be *most* deeply appreciative of learning about it. Bill Miller

Hello Howell Group, I copied this a long time ago and the doing of it has faded from memory...but I can't believe there was a map in the book or I would surely have copied it, too. I'd like to see a map and believe there should be one somewhere about. If any of the group happens to see one, I would surely appreciate knowing where you found it. I think though, that a pretty good idea of the situation can be obtained by taking a present day map of South Carolina and following across it in a meandering way through the counties Mr. Holcomb specified in the introduction below. It might also be possible to further refine it by getting his book and examining the location of grants issued in these counties. I'm thinking that doing that would require quite a bit of time and work, though. Like I say, I copied this a long time ago and failed to note the book it came from but I'd say there was a 99 percent probability it was from this one: -------------------------- 929.3756 H 1986 Personal author: Holcomb, Brent. Title: North Carolina Land Grants in South Carolina / Brent H. Holcomb. Publication info: Baltimore : Genealogical Pub. Co., 1986, c1980. Physical description: ix, 184 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. General note: Reprint. Originally published: [Columbia, S.C.] : Holcomb, c1980. -------------------------- INTRODUCTION The border between North and South Carolina was a point of controversy for many years. Finally, in 1764, the border east of the Catawba River was surveyed. However, it was not until 1772 that it was surveyed west of that river. Before these surveys, over 1,000 land grants were issued by North Carolina in territory which is now South Carolina. These grants are in the present counties of Marlboro, Chesterfield, Lancaster, York, Chester, Union, Cherokee, Spartanburg, Greenville, Laurens and Newberry. As most researchers know, these counties did not come into existence until many years after the border was surveyed. In the period just after the survey, these grants were considered in Craven or Berkeley Counties, and St. Mark's or St. David's Parish, South Carolina. The North Carolina counties from which these land grants were issued were Bladen, Anson, Mecklenburg, and Tryon. Bladen County was formed in 1734; Anson was formed from Bladen in 1748 or 1749; Mecklenburg, from Anson in 1763; Tryon, from Mecklenburg in 1769. Of course, if land could be granted, it could be sold or inherited. Therefore, the other records of these North Carolina counties should be consulted, especially deeds and probate records. Conveniently for the researcher, all of these records are published in abstract form, and are easily accessible. Records of these grants after the border survey can be found in the South Carolina Land Memorials, the Charlston Deeds until 1785, and the deeds of the various counties involved. Some explanation of the North Carolina land grants is necessary. Actual copies of grants were not kept by North Carolina, but "Minutes or Dockets" (abstracts). Plats and warrants are often not extant for these early grants. Some lands were entered, but for some reason, grants were not issued. (All such lands are indicated by a file number beginning in "O.") Some have warrants extant; some, plats; and even one has an original grant already made out. Abstracts of all extant plats and warrants are contained in this volume. If no plat or warrant is extant, the grant was abstracted. Copies of any instrument are available from the Land Grant Clerk, Secretary of State, Raleigh, N.C. 27603, for $.50 each. The file and book numbers in parentheses are duplicate grants for the same tract. The abbreviations CB, SC Bear, etc., signify chain bearers and are important personages, as they are often close neighbors or relatives of the grantee. One female chain bearer has been found (see p. 106, grant of Abraham Read). This volume is a combination of the two volumes published in 1975. There have been a number of corrections and additions made for this edition. Hopefully, this work will help locate some missing links for the pioneers of the Carolina frontier. Some relationships are stated in the warrants, particularly in the Kuykendall and Neely families. Brent H. Holcomb, C.A.L.S. P.O. Box 21766 Columbia, South Carolina 29221 January 4, 1980 ------------------------------------------------------ I proofread my typing the best I could. I really don't believe Mr. Holcomb would hold me guilty of copyright violation by posting this to the group. <G> At least, I hope not! I had a question that I wanted to ask but it won't quite come to mind right now. Maybe later. Bill Miller

Bill, I would love to see that paragraph on the boundaries issue when you have a chance.....It's hard enough trying to keep county lines in mind w/their changes but found I was trying to figure out how some areas of NC & VA fit, how some of NC & SC fit & the same on SC & GA........Makes the old head swim to say nothing of the eyes, right? <g> Sarah Howell Studstill (w/HOWELLs an aunt said were from NC, some others said from SC & all I know on them for sure is what I've found in GA !)

I was reading some messages posted to this list back in Mar 2003 concerning Joseph Howell being referred to as "planter of South Carolina" and the uncertain boundary between North Carolina and South Carolina was mentioned as possibly being an explanation for it; that where Joseph had settled in Anson might have been considered as being in South Carolina. There was also a posting concerning this that referred to an article by Brent Holcomb. I have read that article (in fact I have a copy of it). North Carolina, at times, had considered its border to run down into the present counties of Marlboro, Chesterfield, Lancaster, York, Chester, Union, Cherokee, Spartanburg, Greenville, Laurens and Newberry which are in SC; that is, at the time we're speaking of, North Carolina was issuing land grants in these counties. IAW Brent Holcomb, there were over 1,000 of these grants issued (he has published a book on them). Therefore, doesn't this work in just the reverse fashion in explaining that, because of the boundary, Joseph could have been referred to as being "Of South Carolina" while living in North Carolina? In any event, the first record I have found of a Joseph Howell land grant down there was on Brown Creek (200 acres in 1767). Later grants were issued on Jones Creek and Rocky River. By any authority I've ever seen, this area has never been considered, or referred to, as a part of South Carolina. If anyone on our list can cite an instance where it was, would they post it to the group. I, for one, would appreciate it for my research and, most likely, others would, too. Brent Holcomb explained the entire controversy over the disputed boundary and the results of it in an introduction to one of his books. I have the title of the book here somewhere but can't locate it right now. I know you all have seen it...it's something like "North Carolina Land Grants Issued in the State of South Carolina". I can copy the first paragraph of the introduction (which contains the meat of the whole thing) and post it to the list if anyone wants. You'd have to allow me a little time though. I'm getting on up in age and can't see (or type) like I used to. <G> Bill Miller