Dear Nancy and other interested persons, I think I can shed some light on these questions, but not definitive answers, and prevent an error from being made. Steve Leeper ********************************************************************** Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:43:34, -0500 From: [email protected] (MRS NANCY E ROGERS) To: [email protected] Message-Id: <[email protected]> Subject: Lydia Holmes Hello, I am new to this list, but have searching for information on Lydia Holmes (January 21, 1715/16 to Janauray 27, 1792 in Morristown, New Jersey), married David Trowbridge (Dec 30, 1709 to Nove 16, 1768) marriage was at Bedford, NY and date was July 3, 1735. Appreciate any help ______________________________X-Message: #2 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:20:00, -0500 From: [email protected] (MRS NANCY E ROGERS) To: [email protected] Message-Id: <[email protected]> Subject: Lydia Holmes According to the individual who has a home page at http://members.aol. com/kjtcet2/scott.html the father of Lydia was Samule Holmes. He was from Newport, Rhode Island. My line goes back through Sarah Elizabeth Trowbridge who married Joshua Hickman Cale, her parents David Lewis Trowbridge and Jane Martin, his parents Jesse Trowbridge and Sarah Pugh, his parents Samuel Trowbridge and Jane Ruble, and then David and Lydia. MESSAGE #4 From: [email protected] (MRS NANCY E ROGERS) Subject: Lydia Holmes According to the individual who has a home page at http://members.aol. com/kjtcet2/scott.html the father of Lydia was Samule Holmes. He was from Newport, Rhode Island. My line goes back through Sarah Elizabeth Trowbridge who married Joshua Hickman Cale, her parents David Lewis Trowbridge and Jane Martin, his parents Jesse Trowbridge and Sarah Pugh, his parents Samuel Trowbridge and Jane Ruble, and then David and Lydia. ______________________________X-Message: #4 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:14:27, -0500 From: [email protected] (MRS NANCY E ROGERS) To: [email protected] Message-Id: <[email protected]> Subject: Lydia Holmes Well now I have information that the father of Lydia Holmes was Jonathan and Sarah (Borden ) Holmes, or possibily the daughter of Samuel Holmes. Supposely this Samuel was the brother of Jonathan. Does anyone know the parents of Jonathan and Samuel Holmes **************************************************************** I can provide the following information based on the information that has been passed down to me from Mary Leeper Long (1866-1939), who obtained it from a Holmes Family Bible/ History and other Holmes Family sources. Some dates were obtained from "Ancestors and Descendants of William Browning Greene and Mary Hoxie Lewis with Allied Families" by William E. Wright, Gateway Press, Inc., Baltimore, 1993, pages 246 to 249 (Los Angeles Public Library: Call No. R929.2 G799-13). The wording of the information passed on to me by Mary Leeper Long and published in Wright are highly similar, indicating to me that they came from the same original source. Point 1. I also could not get through to the website at http://members.aol.com/kjtcet2/scott.html Point 2. The Lydia Holmes mentioned in these messages cannot be the daughter of Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes. According to the will of Johnathan Holmes (who married Sarah Borden), which was prepared in 1705, they did have a daughter named Lydia (but this cannot be the same Lydia Holmes). Johnathan Holmes, son of the Rev. Obadiah and Katherine Hyde Holmes, was born in Manchester, England, in 1633/34, and died in Newport, RI, in 1713. Sarah Borden Holmes, was born in 1645 and died in Newport, RI, between 1705 and 1708. The subject Lydia Holmes was stated to have been born in Newport, RI, in 1715/1716, after the deaths of Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes. Point 3. I have no futher information on the Lydia Holmes who was the daughter of Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes. Point 4. The parent of the subject Lydia Holmes is quite possibly a Samuel Holmes; their are many of them. Point 5. The subject Lydia Holmes could well be a descendant of the Rev. Obadiah Holmes, as they had many sons, who had many sons. The Rev. Obadiah and Katherine Hyde Holmes had the following children: Johnathan Holmes: b. in Manchester, England, in 1633/34; m. Sarah Borden in 1665; d. in Newport, RI, in 1713. John Holmes: b. 1633; d. infancy Lidiah Holmes: b. ?; m. Capt. John Brown in 1663; d. ? Obadiah Holmes: bap. 6/9/1644; m. Elizabeth Cooke; d. 1722/23 or 1732 Samuel Holmes: bap. 3/20/1642; m. Alice Stillwell on 10/26/1665; d. 1678/79 Joseph Holmes: b. 1646(?); d. before 1682 John Holmes: b. in Newport, RI, 1639 or 1649; m. (1) Frances Holden on 12/1/1671 and (2) Mary Sayles Green (10/12/1680); d. 10/2/1742 Hopestill Holmes: b. early in 1640; bap. 5/13/1640; m. John Odlin in 1660; d. 12/1711 Mary Holmes: b. ?; m. John Brown; d. ? (may be the same person as Lydiah Holmes, who married a John Brown). Point 6. The subject Lydia Holmes, if a descendant of the Rev. Obadiah and Katherine Hyde Holmes, is most likely a grand daughter or even a great grand daughter, based on the date of her birth. Point 7. I only have additional children for the children of the Rev. Obadiah and Katherine Hyde Holmes, for Lydiah (partial) and Johnathan (complete). Of course, the subject Lydia Holmes could not be descended from John and Lydiah Holmes Brown. As stated above, Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes could not be the parents of the subject Lydia Holmes. Based on Johnathan's will (dated 1705), Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes had 9 children: Obadiah, Johnathan, Samuel, Sarah, Mary, Catherine, Martha, Lydia, and Joseph. I only have reliable information for Obadiah (b. 7/17/1766; m. Alice Ashton; d. 1745) and Johnathan (b. 1672-1681; m. ?; d. 1766), but note that one of the children was named Samuel. Could this Samuel be the father of Lydia, born 1715/16? He might be between 33 (if born in 1682) and 49 (if born in 1666). The subject Lydia Holmes could even be another generation away from this Samuel Holmes or have descended from one of the other sons of the Rev. Obadiah and Katherine Hyde Holmes. Point 8. Her father could indeed be a Samuel Holmes, but, I am sorry to say, that I cannot help identify the correct Samuel Holmes. We can, however, avoid incorrectly calling her the daughter of Johnathan and Sarah Borden Holmes. Point 9. A lot of Holmes family descendants did end up in New Jersey. Point 10. I hope I have not offended or bored anyone. I am just trying to shed some light on fuzzy stuff from a long time ago. A grateful Holmes Family descendant, Steve Leeper