--- Mario Arend <arendm@t-online.de> wrote: Lutheran believe in "real presence" of Christ "in, > with and under" the bread > and wine, a kind of transformation or > materialisation during the ceremony. > Luther let ministers go, who did not distinguish > clearly between transformed > and not transformed altar bread. > Well, Mario, you started out okay, but you ended up wrong. You should have stopped after "the bread and the wine". In the Lutheran (at least in the MO Synod)faith, there is no transformation at any time. The wine and bread are always there, the body and blood are always there. Nothing changes before, during or after consuming. Christ said "it is" not "it will be". As to the rest that you said, I can't say one way or the other. Dorene in MO __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail