Hochgräflich is no special title. Hoch- is just a politeness form like "highly noble". Count is count, there is no "high-count".  ;-) Regarding your secondary source it does not really help me. I can't identify these two counts. It indeed may be "bastards" of the Prince Elector of Hessen (Hessen-Kassel) with one of his maitresses. May be they got the title "von Hanau" and "Graf" although at this time it no longer was an independant county, after it had been annected by the Elector Principality of Hessen first half of the 17th century. Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it back with Hessen-Kassel. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 20:23:54 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need word help please On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:54 am, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > I presume Godfather is the person present at the baptism taking > responsibility for the christian education of the child, correct? > > In which case the situation is as follows: > > Your ancestor is the "Hochgräflicher Hanauischer Gärtner". I suppose the You're right it is an l. I guess I should have blown it up a bit more. The l seems to be a capital with a bar going through it, but on magninfication it is clearly an L. So that would make him the "High Count's landscaper/gardner"? > last letter is rather an "l" than a "t". It could be an abbreviation > scribble which make you think it is a "t". I can only judge if you provide > me with a scan. > > Further, according to what you write below the godfathers seem to be two > "Hochgeborene" Graf Ernst Carl & Heinrich Christian.  > > What puzzles me are the first names. They are not typical for the > Hessen-Kassel Dynasty and they cannot belong to the counts of Hanau > neither, which dissappeared after the last representative died in > the first half of the 17th century (your record is unlikely to be that > old). The Solms family also had other preferred first names, so there > isn't a good fit there either. Carle Christian Milde was born 14 feb 1725. Here's a link to the page which links to the graphic: http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html I have seen a birth for a daughter with the countess title in Assenheim. Ameolia or something strange like that. But that may have been in the 1600s. The records go back to 1654. These sponsors may just be non-hereditary relations, in fact your response would seem to indicate they must. They would certainly have been born in the mid to late 17th century. I have only begun to explore this branch of the family. So my data is a bit sparse at this time. I do currently have the films for Assenheim 1654 to 1875. Two different copies in fact. There are several places which include information of the happenings going on and several royal births and deaths recorded. I've pretty much passed them over as the stories are way beyond my ability and the royals didn't really concern me. Although it all was interesting stuff, which I have considered snapping it for later use. If there is anything that you think I should look for to help resolve this, I'll make sure to snap it this weekend. I've never really troubled getting to know the royal lines, as I've really had no reason to chase after them. Although, I've recently discovered, thanks to you, it does affect the locals in various ways. Carle Christian Milde and Leopoldine Louisa Steffans are, Maria Dorothea's parents which I included in the picture. Dorothea is my G5GM. The father Johann Michael was born about 1690, based on his death record. Thanks again! Brian > > I cannot finally resolve these questions, as long as I do not see the full > original record and all information you have available. > >> Milde, Johan Michael  Hochgräft. Hanauischer Gärtner >> >> >> I get that he is a gardener from Hanau, but what's the qualifier mean? >> >> Also, his eldest son has godfathers listed as "Hochgeb. Grf. Ernst Carl & >> Heinrich Christian". >> >> This is in Assenheim, a home to some members of the Solms ruling family. I >> thought the "Grf." might be Graf? and Hochgräft. might mean a gardner to >> the Graf? >> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Fri, April 10, 2009 2:24 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > > Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of > Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical > reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, > until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it > back with Hessen-Kassel. Yes, but are we sure we are talking about Hesse-Cassel or Solms-Braunfels in 1725? Or could the sponsors be part of the Ysenburg ruling family? Assenheim fell under all three. While Michael was a gardener for the house of Hanau, that doesn't mean the sponsors of his son are from Hanau. It doesn't say anything about them, and thus I assume they are local, and probably part of the Solms-Braunfels lineage. I'm not sure what to look for in the records for these two to see if they are mentioned elsewhere. Of course this is all coming from the index. I'll have to find the record this weekend. It may be more useful in digging out details. Or not. Thanks again, Brian