Thanks for the information.? I check and was a little off on my estimation of his birth, it actually is: Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". Abenheim first became part of?the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonian time and the congress of?Vienna in 1816. Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annected by France.? Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 19:04:30 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp A very badly written u or a could be interpreted as the other. Or an illegible page may lead to confusion. Even worse is if the a has an umlaut over it. What is the source of your data on the placename? My Rupps are from Assenheim, until you go back far enough, in which case I haven't yet figured out exactly where they came from, although I have clues. I believe I also have seen Rapps in Assenheim, and/or in other places in the German states. So unless you have actual source documents it is hard to say what your ancestors' names were, and even then the person entering the record may have gotten it wrong.? Consider I have about 5000 records on my family, and if only 1 out 500 has a mistake in the name that would be 10 records with an incorrect name. the percentage is considerably higher than that, at least for the ones I can prove with certainty. the best proof is to gather as many sources as you can on a person, and rule out other explanations. I have persons who have gone through three or four different spellings of their lastname over their life (but most of them were French). Strange coincidence Abenheim vs. Assenheim. I have Rupps in Assenheim beginning in the late 1600s, and on in to the 1800s at least. But, I'm just beginning to work that line. On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:36 am, [email protected] wrote: > I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever > been the same?? I have Rapp s from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and > would love to know where they migrated to there from. > > Twila > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am > Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames > > > > Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least > one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but > that could be an isolated incident. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not a specialist of today's Palatinate region, but probably best would be to refer to it as "Abenheim, Herrschaft (Lordship) Dalberg zu Herrnsheim" and if you want to refer to a bigger nation, then I would refer to the Holy Romano-Germanic Empire (which ended 1806), rather then to "Germany".   Note Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Luxemburg, Lichtenstein and large parts of Italy, France, Poland and the Czech Republik were once part of the Holy Romano-Germanic Empire. Today's Germany is quite different from its extension and Middle-Europe has gone through quite significant changes in terms of borderlines all over the history until 1945 and then again in the 1990s (German reunion, split of the USSR, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia). This is why "Germany" is a bit diffuse and often misunderstood. Regarding Abenheim...  from about 1500 to 1797 (as far as I know) it was part of the "Herrschaft Dalberg zu Herrnsheim". Then it was occupied by France and annected to France end of the 18th century (probably 1797). 1813 it was given to the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (aka Hessen-Darmstadt). 1945 it became part of the newly formed Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz.   Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Samstag, den 11. April 2009, 06:49:51 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Thanks for the information.? I check and was a little off on my estimation of his birth, it actually is: Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". Abenheim first became part of?the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonian time and the congress of?Vienna in 1816. Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annected by France.? Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 19:04:30 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp A very badly written u or a could be interpreted as the other. Or an illegible page may lead to confusion. Even worse is if the a has an umlaut over it. What is the source of your data on the placename? My Rupps are from Assenheim, until you go back far enough, in which case I haven't yet figured out exactly where they came from, although I have clues. I believe I also have seen Rapps in Assenheim, and/or in other places in the German states. So unless you have actual source documents it is hard to say what your ancestors' names were, and even then the person entering the record may have gotten it wrong.? Consider I have about 5000 records on my family, and if only 1 out 500 has a mistake in the name that would be 10 records with an incorrect name. the percentage is considerably higher than that, at least for the ones I can prove with certainty. the best proof is to gather as many sources as you can on a person, and rule out other explanations. I have persons who have gone through three or four different spellings of their lastname over their life (but most of them were French). Strange coincidence Abenheim vs. Assenheim. I have Rupps in Assenheim beginning in the late 1600s, and on in to the 1800s at least. But, I'm just beginning to work that line. On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:36 am, [email protected] wrote: > I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever > been the same?? I have Rapp s from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and > would love to know where they migrated to there from. > > Twila > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am > Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames > > > > Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least > one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but > that could be an isolated incident. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message