There are about 1.000.000 last names in Germany. "Gräf" ranks 1041st and thus is not as unusual as that. Find its geographical distribution here: http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/v3/MapGateway.aspx?name=gr%c3%a4f&target=DE&renderer=DE_DE&mode=rel If there is a dot after Gräf. or may be something like this: Gräfl. (the "l" could be difficult to read and may have something like a bow upwards after it), then it would be an abbrev. for "gräflich", the adjective of Graf = count. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Montag, den 13. April 2009, 20:54:07 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Gräf as a name or last name and related question Ok two questions. Question one: Ok, I have an ancestor who has in his death index the name Gräf after his forename ( Milde, Carl Christian Gräf). The Gräf is not used in his baptismal name. I have other people where it appears the last name is Gräf. These people, I do not think are related to any royal family. Is it unusual to see "Gräf" used as a name rather than a title? ============================================================================ Question 2: Also, I'd like to confirm an entry in my research so I know for sure what a proper entry for a royal looks like. I have two batismal records for the Solmsische Stallmeister Hn. Eyersmann's children (no relation) the first is: Wilhelmina Christina, get. 17 Nov 1699 (P. Hochgeb Gräffin & FR. Wlihemine Christina zu Solms) This would be Wilhelmine Cristina the Countess of Solms, correct? The next entry is: Ludvig, geb 9. 5. 1704 (P. H. Graff Ludvig Henrich Graf zu Solms, Herr zu Munzenb.) This would be Ludvig Henrich Count of Solms [and Assenheim], of Munzenberg, right? Both Ludvig Henrich and his wife Wilhelmine Christine are buried in Assenheim (1728 and 1745 respectively). They had issue, among others, of: 4) Johan Ernst Carl Graf zu Solms-Rodelheim und Assenheim, and 5) Karl Christian Heinrich (*killed in a duel in 1745). These two could be the sponsors on the record for my ancestor Carle Christian Milde, even though the "Christian Heinrich" is reversed in the index transcription. Or am I way off? Neither of them would have been adults in 1725 and Johan Ernst Carl would not yet have been the count, he was second in line at this time. I think these two are the most likely candidates for the sponsors as no last name is given and both of them lived in Assenheim (at least part of the time). Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I always, forget about that surname site. I guess I should check that site from now on before wasting a post. Thanks again Thierry. But what about my second question? Does my research and theory hold up? Is it probable that the sponsors for Carle Christian Milde are the sons of the Graf of Solms-Rodelheim and Assenheim, and are the sponsors for the horsemaster Eyerman's children the Graf and Grafin of Solms-Rodelheim? Brian > > I have two batismal records for the Solmsische Stallmeister Hn. > Eyersmann's children (no relation) > > the first is: > Wilhelmina Christina, get. 17 Nov 1699 (P. Hochgeb Gräffin & FR. Wlihemine > Christina zu Solms) > > This would be Wilhelmine Cristina the Countess of Solms, correct? > > The next entry is: > Ludvig, geb 9. 5. 1704 (P. H. Graff Ludvig Henrich Graf zu Solms, Herr zu > Munzenb.) > > This would be Ludvig Henrich Count of Solms [and Assenheim], of > Munzenberg, right? > > > Both Ludvig Henrich and his wife Wilhelmine Christine are buried in > Assenheim (1728 and 1745 respectively). > > They had issue, among others, of: > 4) Johan Ernst Carl Graf zu Solms-Rodelheim und Assenheim, and > 5) Karl Christian Heinrich (*killed in a duel in 1745). > > These two could be the sponsors on the record for my ancestor Carle > Christian Milde, even though the "Christian Heinrich" is reversed in the > index transcription. Or am I way off? Neither of them would have been > adults in 1725 and Johan Ernst Carl would not yet have been the count, he > was second in line at this time. I think these two are the most likely > candidates for the sponsors as no last name is given and both of them > lived in Assenheim (at least part of the time).

Hello Brian, > the first is: > Wilhelmina Christina, get. 17 Nov 1699 (P. Hochgeb Gräffin & FR. Wlihemine > Christina zu Solms) > > This would be Wilhelmine Cristina the Countess of Solms, correct? Of course I would prefer to see the original record (for instance die P. at the beginning doesn't make sense to me), but based on what you wrote above it should be the hochgeb[orene] Gräfin und Fr[eifrau] Wilhelmine Christiana zu Solms[-Rödelheim] indeed. Graf / Gräfin = Count / Countess Freiherr / Freifrau = Lord / Lady or Baron / Baroness hochgeboren = highborn? [one of the phrases typically used for aristocrats] > Ludvig, geb 9. 5. 1704 (P. H. Graff Ludvig Henrich Graf zu Solms, Herr zu > Munzenb.) Count Ludwig He[i]nrich of Solms[-Rödelheim], Lord of Münzenb[erg] As I wrote in earlier posts, Assenheim was a condominate wherefrom 1/3 was owned by the Solms-Rödelheim branch. The other two thirds were owned by the Prince Elector of Hessen (a.k.a. Hessen-Kassel) and the Isenburg-Büdingen branch. > These two could be the sponsors on the record for my ancestor Carle > Christian Milde, even though the "Christian Heinrich" is reversed in the > index transcription. Reversal of first names were not that unusual. Based on what you found out, it is very likely you found the two sponsors!  :-) > Neither of them would have been > adults in 1725 and Johan Ernst Carl would not yet have been the count, he > was second in line at this time. You did not need to be adult to become sponsor at a baptism. However, typically sponsors were at least 14 years old. You may like to check this. Further, if I remember the record right, they were titled gräfl. = gräflich not Graf. Am I wrong there? All the descendants of a Count are gräflich = "countish" (even though this word probably doesn't exist in English, you should be able to understand what it means). However, it wasn't too unusual either to title the son Graf even though the father still was alive. I found that already in other documents. So either way, I am quite confident you now have your sponsors! Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 16. April 2009, 13:53:59 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Gräf as a name or last name and related question I always, forget about that surname site. I guess I should check that site from now on before wasting a post. Thanks again Thierry. But what about my second question? Does my research and theory hold up? Is it probable that the sponsors for Carle Christian Milde are the sons of the Graf of Solms-Rodelheim and Assenheim, and are the sponsors for the horsemaster Eyerman's children the Graf and Grafin of Solms-Rodelheim? Brian > > I have two batismal records for the Solmsische Stallmeister Hn. > Eyersmann's children (no relation) > > the first is: > Wilhelmina Christina, get. 17 Nov 1699 (P. Hochgeb Gräffin & FR. Wlihemine > Christina zu Solms) > > This would be Wilhelmine Cristina the Countess of Solms, correct? > > The next entry is: > Ludvig, geb 9. 5. 1704 (P. H. Graff Ludvig Henrich Graf zu Solms, Herr zu > Munzenb.) > > This would be Ludvig Henrich Count of Solms [and Assenheim], of > Munzenberg, right? > > > Both Ludvig Henrich and his wife Wilhelmine Christine are buried in > Assenheim (1728 and 1745 respectively). > > They had issue, among others, of: > 4) Johan Ernst Carl Graf zu Solms-Rodelheim und Assenheim, and > 5) Karl Christian Heinrich (*killed in a duel in 1745). > > These two could be the sponsors on the record for my ancestor Carle > Christian Milde, even though the "Christian Heinrich" is reversed in the > index transcription. Or am I way off? Neither of them would have been > adults in 1725 and Johan Ernst Carl would not yet have been the count, he > was second in line at this time. I think these two are the most likely > candidates for the sponsors as no last name is given and both of them > lived in Assenheim (at least part of the time). ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message