Excellent! Sometimes google and/or wiki stare us in the face! The amazing amount of information now "out there" on the internet is going to replace my Hessen website before too much longer. :-) Don Watson Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 01:03:14 +0000 From: M BARON <mbaron2@sympatico.ca> >From Wikipedia--a history of Alsace-Lorraine The Imperial territory of Alsace-Lorraine (German: Reichsland Elsa?-Lothringen, generally Elsass-Lothringen)

Hi, I have Jung ancestors from Lich, Hesse - Carl Jung was his name - married Margaretha Keppel/Koeppel (umlaut over "o") - any connection? Thanks. Joan Perkins - NYS -----Original Message----- From: alexis jungk Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:05 AM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) Hi, I have ancestors who were originally from Metz (Lorraine/Lothringen/Meuze et Moselle), moved to Kassel (Hesse) and a few generations later they had spread almost all around the world. So it is posible that the Borns or maybe a female ancestor did come from somewhere else in Europe. Aditionally, after the 30 Years War, inmigration was encouraged by many german rulers in order to repopulate their lands, and many at the time of the church reformation received groups fleeing their homes, in the case of France they were mainly hugonots (hope I got the spelling right). Alexis 2011/3/1 <brian@amason.net> > > Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and > > Lorraine by the French. > Alsace and Lorraine are most definitely NOT the same place. Different > peoples, different dialects, different rulers, different histories. > > Lorraine fell to Richeleiu. Alsace fell to France, piecewise, as a result > of very slick manipulation of treaties at the close of the Thirty Years > War, and was disputed for centuries. In fact it was that very treaty that > was the grain of sand in the oyster from which all the latter wars were > partly born. The free city of Strasbourg was the last Alsatian property to > fall by that treaty, due to the lack of action of a weak and feeble > Emperor. Alsace was historically a German State. The Kings of France > chipped away at the territory over centuries. > > There was much travel back and forth between the border by the people. > Bits of Alsace were under the dominion of the house of Hesse. It's very > possible your cousin has some foundation. But Alzey was part of the > Palatinate. Not Hesse-Darmstadt, until very late in the history of the > German States (1814). > Alzey was, I believe part of the Bishopric of Strasbourg, which is in > Alsace. > > Part of Alsace belonged to the House of Hesse-Kassel, for a time. But not > Hess-Darmstadt. Hesse and the whole area has a very complex and twisted > history. It's almost impossible to make any statement about the area that > is true without qualifying the exact time period you are referring to. > > Brian > > > > > Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the > > borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with > > France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. > > > > I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will > > correct me. > > > > Marleen Van Horne > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, This is a bit off subject re Hesse, but my paternal ancestors were of the BARON name from St-Lo, Normandy - immigration to Quebec, Canada. The name due to phonetics/poor handwriting became Barreau/Bareau (Ontario, CA) & Barrow/Borrow (NYS). Could we have a connection. Joan Borrow Perkins -----Original Message----- From: M BARON Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:03 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) >From Wikipedia--a history of Alsace-Lorraine The Imperial territory of Alsace-Lorraine (German: Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen, generally Elsass-Lothringen) was a territory created by the German Empire in 1871 after the annexation of most of Alsace and the Moselle region of Lorraine in the Franco-Prussian War. The Alsatian part lay in the Rhine Valley on the west bank of the Rhine River and east of the Vosges Mountains. The Lorraine section was in the upper Moselle valley to the north of the Vosges Mountains. These territories had become part of Eastern Francia in 921 during the reign of King Louis the German, and later became part of the Holy Roman Empire. Their population spoke Germanic and Romance dialects. Those in Alsace spoke in their vast majority Germanic dialects, in particular Alsatian, an Alemannic German dialect similar to that spoken on the opposite bank of the Rhine, while those in Lorraine were divided roughly equally between those who spoke the Romance Lorrain dialect and those who spoke Franconian German dialects. The area had gradually become part of France between 1552, when Metz was ceded to the Kingdom of France, and 1798, when the Republic of Mulhouse joined the French Republic. After the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, the area was annexed by the newly-created German Empire in 1871 by the Treaty of Frankfurt and became a Reichsland. French troops entered Alsace-Lorraine in November 1918 at the end of the World War I and the territory reverted to France at the Treaty of Versailles of 1919. The area was de facto annexed by Nazi Germany in 1940 (although no official de jure annexation took place), but reverted to France in 1944-1945 at the end of World War II and has remained a part of France since. In 1871, the Reichsland of Elsaß-Lothringen was made up of 93% of Alsace (7% remained French) and 26% of Lorraine (74% remained French). For historical reasons, specific legal dispositions are still applied in the territory in form of a local law. In relation to its special legal status, the territory has since its reversion to France been referred to as Alsace-Moselle > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:43:55 -0500 > From: raygun33@optonline.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > > Alsace and Lorraine ARE NOT the same place, but separate states that are > linked by military history. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marleen Van Horne" <msvnhrn@jps.net> > To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > > > > This is my understanding of the situation: > > > > The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political > > circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have been searching for my grandfather's birth place in Germany and have never been able to find any information about him. It was recently suggested by a member of the family that they thought the family lived in Frankfurt. His date of birth was 6 December 1855. Believe he immigrated 1876 but have never found his name on a Passenger List. Any suggestions? Sue Fingado-Hubbard ,

I have the same problem.   My Elizabeth Weinsheimer/Winsheimer is said to have come from Alsace-Lorraine, but some US records say she is from Hesse-Darmstadt.     I have no idea where to look or even how to search for her in Germany.   Anyone else have this surname?  Her father was Anthony and brother, Andrew...found them in Ohio.  Elizabeth WEINSHEIMER married Johann GERSTENSCHLAEGER in Ohio.  My Gerstenschlaegers are also from Darmstadt..Habitzheim. Any pointers will be gratefully and happilly accepted. Thanks, y'all! Carolyn Chappell Nelson anymoreancestors@gmail.com   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   _____   No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From Wikipedia--a history of Alsace-Lorraine The Imperial territory of Alsace-Lorraine (German: Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen, generally Elsass-Lothringen) was a territory created by the German Empire in 1871 after the annexation of most of Alsace and the Moselle region of Lorraine in the Franco-Prussian War. The Alsatian part lay in the Rhine Valley on the west bank of the Rhine River and east of the Vosges Mountains. The Lorraine section was in the upper Moselle valley to the north of the Vosges Mountains. These territories had become part of Eastern Francia in 921 during the reign of King Louis the German, and later became part of the Holy Roman Empire. Their population spoke Germanic and Romance dialects. Those in Alsace spoke in their vast majority Germanic dialects, in particular Alsatian, an Alemannic German dialect similar to that spoken on the opposite bank of the Rhine, while those in Lorraine were divided roughly equally between those who spoke the Romance Lorrain dialect and those who spoke Franconian German dialects. The area had gradually become part of France between 1552, when Metz was ceded to the Kingdom of France, and 1798, when the Republic of Mulhouse joined the French Republic. After the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, the area was annexed by the newly-created German Empire in 1871 by the Treaty of Frankfurt and became a Reichsland. French troops entered Alsace-Lorraine in November 1918 at the end of the World War I and the territory reverted to France at the Treaty of Versailles of 1919. The area was de facto annexed by Nazi Germany in 1940 (although no official de jure annexation took place), but reverted to France in 1944-1945 at the end of World War II and has remained a part of France since. In 1871, the Reichsland of Elsaß-Lothringen was made up of 93% of Alsace (7% remained French) and 26% of Lorraine (74% remained French). For historical reasons, specific legal dispositions are still applied in the territory in form of a local law. In relation to its special legal status, the territory has since its reversion to France been referred to as Alsace-Moselle > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:43:55 -0500 > From: raygun33@optonline.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > > Alsace and Lorraine ARE NOT the same place, but separate states that are > linked by military history. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marleen Van Horne" <msvnhrn@jps.net> > To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > > > > This is my understanding of the situation: > > > > The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political > > circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Alsace and Lorraine are *not* the same place. The German names are Elsaß and Lothringen. However, these two regions frequently happened to be conquered and annexed by either Germany or France as a single piece of war loot. Just see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_%28region%29 Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marleen Van Horne" <msvnhrn@jps.net> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > This is my understanding of the situation: > > The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political > circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part > of France. > > Alzey, however, has always been in the German state of Hesse-Darmstadt. > The confusion, as I see it is in the fact that on various occasions, > as a result of war, that part of Hesse-Darmstadt on the west side of the > Rhein River has been occupied by France, i.e., the Napoleonic Wars, WWI > and WWII. In each instance the territory was eventually returned to the > German state. > > Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and > Lorraine by the French. > > Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the > borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with > France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. > > I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will > correct me. > > Marleen Van Horne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Those names appear to be of the Rhineland-Palatinate origin. Possibly Alsatian. You would do well to look for some books on German etymology, in regards to surnames. I'm a rank amateur, and could easily be Wildly wrong. Your best bet is to find the churches they belonged to and look for every birth/baptism/marriage record in a church you can on the family. If they went to a German language church, then the town of origin is likely recorded in those records. The Weinsheimer name is very dense in the Palatine (Bad Kruznach) region even today. But my money is on the name originating in Weinsheim, in the Palatine near the border with Luxemburg and Belgium. YMMV, Brian On Mon, February 28, 2011 8:50 pm, CarolynChappellNelson wrote: > > > I have the same problem.   My Elizabeth Weinsheimer/Winsheimer is said to > have come from Alsace-Lorraine, but some US records say she is from > Hesse-Darmstadt.     I have no idea where to look or even how to search > for her in Germany.   Anyone else have this surname?  Her father was > Anthony and brother, Andrew...found them in Ohio.  > > > > Elizabeth WEINSHEIMER married Johann GERSTENSCHLAEGER in Ohio.  My > Gerstenschlaegers are also from Darmstadt..Habitzheim. > > > > Any pointers will be gratefully and happilly accepted. > > > > Thanks, y'all! > > Carolyn Chappell Nelson > > anymoreancestors@gmail.com > > > > >   > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > >   _____   > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 > >   > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

> Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and > Lorraine by the French. Alsace and Lorraine are most definitely NOT the same place. Different peoples, different dialects, different rulers, different histories. Lorraine fell to Richeleiu. Alsace fell to France, piecewise, as a result of very slick manipulation of treaties at the close of the Thirty Years War, and was disputed for centuries. In fact it was that very treaty that was the grain of sand in the oyster from which all the latter wars were partly born. The free city of Strasbourg was the last Alsatian property to fall by that treaty, due to the lack of action of a weak and feeble Emperor. Alsace was historically a German State. The Kings of France chipped away at the territory over centuries. There was much travel back and forth between the border by the people. Bits of Alsace were under the dominion of the house of Hesse. It's very possible your cousin has some foundation. But Alzey was part of the Palatinate. Not Hesse-Darmstadt, until very late in the history of the German States (1814). Alzey was, I believe part of the Bishopric of Strasbourg, which is in Alsace. Part of Alsace belonged to the House of Hesse-Kassel, for a time. But not Hess-Darmstadt. Hesse and the whole area has a very complex and twisted history. It's almost impossible to make any statement about the area that is true without qualifying the exact time period you are referring to. Brian > > Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the > borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with > France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. > > I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will > correct me. > > Marleen Van Horne >

My husband's ancestor Joseph Kuntz was from Goersdorf which is now part of Bas Rhin in France. He was listed on the Ohio census as being from Hesse. The northern part of Alsace was part of Hesse for a while. Terry Staub Dayton Ohio In a message dated 2/28/2011 9:51:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, moreancestors@comcast.net writes: I have the same problem. My Elizabeth Weinsheimer/Winsheimer is said to have come from Alsace-Lorraine, but some US records say she is from Hesse-Darmstadt. I have no idea where to look or even how to search for her in Germany. Anyone else have this surname? Her father was Anthony and brother, Andrew...found them in Ohio. Elizabeth WEINSHEIMER married Johann GERSTENSCHLAEGER in Ohio. My Gerstenschlaegers are also from Darmstadt..Habitzheim. Any pointers will be gratefully and happilly accepted. Thanks, y'all! Carolyn Chappell Nelson anymoreancestors@gmail.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for this. It helps to heal. Kathy From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of RoseMary Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:29 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger I have found this in my own genealogy as well, my GG granpa LOATHED being called german and constantly informed people of the fact that his son (my G granpa) was serving/had served in WW1, against the germans. The family had also immigrated prior to the American Revolution, so the last ""german"" in the family had been his own GG grandpa (from Hesse), and he was not shy about saying so. Providence only knows if great granpa (in WW1) had met distant relatives in battle etc and not known it. -----Original Message----- From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of D.L. MacLaughlan-Dumes Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:27 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger On Feb 28, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Kathy Cochran wrote: > I would LOVE to know why some people (my Grandmother included) never mentioned the name "Germany" but dramatically "dropped the name" of Alsace-Lorraine whenever she thought someone might be listening. Ah, she was a drama teacher, but I also wonder if back in the 30's and the 40's if the hatred and fear of Hitler caused this to be a factor in her (and many other people) not ever mentioning that her (their) people came from Germany. This was common not only in the 1930s onward but before that period, all the way back before WWI. From 1914 there was a great prejudice against all things German, especially family roots in Germany. Some folks changed their surnames (as my grandfather did from Petersen to MacLaughlan -- much easier to be Irish or Scottish than be mistaken for German). Some folks decided that their ancestors came from Alsace or even France. One family line had the surname Jatho from Hesse-Kassel, and several cousins were told that the surname was really "Jathaux" from France. We now know better.... Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11

I have found this in my own genealogy as well, my GG granpa LOATHED being called german and constantly informed people of the fact that his son (my G granpa) was serving/had served in WW1, against the germans. The family had also immigrated prior to the American Revolution, so the last ""german"" in the family had been his own GG grandpa (from Hesse), and he was not shy about saying so. Providence only knows if great granpa (in WW1) had met distant relatives in battle etc and not known it. -----Original Message----- From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of D.L. MacLaughlan-Dumes Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:27 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger On Feb 28, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Kathy Cochran wrote: > I would LOVE to know why some people (my Grandmother included) never mentioned the name "Germany" but dramatically "dropped the name" of Alsace-Lorraine whenever she thought someone might be listening. Ah, she was a drama teacher, but I also wonder if back in the 30's and the 40's if the hatred and fear of Hitler caused this to be a factor in her (and many other people) not ever mentioning that her (their) people came from Germany. This was common not only in the 1930s onward but before that period, all the way back before WWI. From 1914 there was a great prejudice against all things German, especially family roots in Germany. Some folks changed their surnames (as my grandfather did from Petersen to MacLaughlan -- much easier to be Irish or Scottish than be mistaken for German). Some folks decided that their ancestors came from Alsace or even France. One family line had the surname Jatho from Hesse-Kassel, and several cousins were told that the surname was really "Jathaux" from France. We now know better.... Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I believe that is why we have been misled for so long! Thanks so much !!!!! From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of D.L. MacLaughlan-Dumes Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:27 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger On Feb 28, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Kathy Cochran wrote: > I would LOVE to know why some people (my Grandmother included) never mentioned the name "Germany" but dramatically "dropped the name" of Alsace-Lorraine whenever she thought someone might be listening. Ah, she was a drama teacher, but I also wonder if back in the 30's and the 40's if the hatred and fear of Hitler caused this to be a factor in her (and many other people) not ever mentioning that her (their) people came from Germany. This was common not only in the 1930s onward but before that period, all the way back before WWI. From 1914 there was a great prejudice against all things German, especially family roots in Germany. Some folks changed their surnames (as my grandfather did from Petersen to MacLaughlan -- much easier to be Irish or Scottish than be mistaken for German). Some folks decided that their ancestors came from Alsace or even France. One family line had the surname Jatho from Hesse-Kassel, and several cousins were told that the surname was really "Jathaux" from France. We now know better.... Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11

On Feb 28, 2011, at 7:09 PM, Kathy Cochran wrote: > I would LOVE to know why some people (my Grandmother included) never mentioned the name “Germany” but dramatically “dropped the name” of Alsace-Lorraine whenever she thought someone might be listening. Ah, she was a drama teacher, but I also wonder if back in the 30’s and the 40’s if the hatred and fear of Hitler caused this to be a factor in her (and many other people) not ever mentioning that her (their) people came from Germany. This was common not only in the 1930s onward but before that period, all the way back before WWI. From 1914 there was a great prejudice against all things German, especially family roots in Germany. Some folks changed their surnames (as my grandfather did from Petersen to MacLaughlan -- much easier to be Irish or Scottish than be mistaken for German). Some folks decided that their ancestors came from Alsace or even France. One family line had the surname Jatho from Hesse-Kassel, and several cousins were told that the surname was really "Jathaux" from France. We now know better.... Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage

Carolyn, on the 1st page of the link regarding your family it states: Summary I found 178 entries and localized them in 58 different counties. There are around 472 people with this name projected on total population. This is an occurance below average. That should help. Look at the site and you might learn a lot of things that might help you zero in on your family. Kathy From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CarolynChappellNelson Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:50 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Cc: James Baker Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger I have the same problem. My Elizabeth Weinsheimer/Winsheimer is said to have come from Alsace-Lorraine, but some US records say she is from Hesse-Darmstadt. I have no idea where to look or even how to search for her in Germany. Anyone else have this surname? Her father was Anthony and brother, Andrew...found them in Ohio. Elizabeth WEINSHEIMER married Johann GERSTENSCHLAEGER in Ohio. My Gerstenschlaegers are also from Darmstadt..Habitzheim. Any pointers will be gratefully and happilly accepted. Thanks, y'all! Carolyn Chappell Nelson anymoreancestors@gmail.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11

Carolyn, Have you looked at the distribution of the name WEINSHEIMER on the link: http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/v3/Map.ashx?name=WEINSHEIMER <http://christoph.stoepel.net/geogen/v3/Map.ashx?name=WEINSHEIMER&target=DE&renderer=EN_US&mode=rel> &target=DE&renderer=EN_US&mode=rel It might give you some clues. I would LOVE to know why some people (my Grandmother included) never mentioned the name “Germany” but dramatically “dropped the name” of Alsace-Lorraine whenever she thought someone might be listening. Ah, she was a drama teacher, but I also wonder if back in the 30’s and the 40’s if the hatred and fear of Hitler caused this to be a factor in her (and many other people) not ever mentioning that her (their) people came from Germany. From what I have learned from all of you today is that Alzey is about 60 miles from the border of Alsace-Lorraine, and never was included within this border. So to me this is seeming more and more like a fairy-story that was conjured up because no one coming from Germany wanted to talk about their past! My Alsatian gg-g grandfather, my foot! My GERMAN GG-Grandfather, and I am proud of him! If I had been unwilling to look past Alsace-Lorraine, I would have NEVER found my ancestors! I started out on the Rootsweb Alsace-Lorraine list, then migrated to the Baden-Wurttemburg one, and then once I got to the HESSE sight, the answers started to flow! And ALWAYS will I remember Alexia for this. Bless her! And bless all of you! Kathy Cochran San Andreas, CA From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of CarolynChappellNelson Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:50 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Cc: James Baker Subject: Re: [HESSE] Alsace-Lorraine/Darmstadt Weinsheimer/Gerstenschlaeger I have the same problem. My Elizabeth Weinsheimer/Winsheimer is said to have come from Alsace-Lorraine, but some US records say she is from Hesse-Darmstadt. I have no idea where to look or even how to search for her in Germany. Anyone else have this surname? Her father was Anthony and brother, Andrew...found them in Ohio. Elizabeth WEINSHEIMER married Johann GERSTENSCHLAEGER in Ohio. My Gerstenschlaegers are also from Darmstadt..Habitzheim. Any pointers will be gratefully and happilly accepted. Thanks, y'all! Carolyn Chappell Nelson anymoreancestors@gmail.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11

Alsace and Lorraine ARE NOT the same place, but separate states that are linked by military history. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marleen Van Horne" <msvnhrn@jps.net> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > This is my understanding of the situation: > > The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political > circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part > of France. > > Alzey, however, has always been in the German state of Hesse-Darmstadt. > The confusion, as I see it is in the fact that on various occasions, > as a result of war, that part of Hesse-Darmstadt on the west side of the > Rhein River has been occupied by France, i.e., the Napoleonic Wars, WWI > and WWII. In each instance the territory was eventually returned to the > German state. > > Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and > Lorraine by the French. > > Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the > borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with > France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. > > I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will > correct me. > > Marleen Van Horne > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Alsace and Lorraine are the names of two adjacent regions. In German they are Elsaß and Lothringen. Alsace and Lorraine are not different names for the same place, but unique names for two places which adjoin one another. In a message dated 2/28/2011 4:55:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, kathys_old_house@goldrush.com writes: So far, I've been getting some marvelous responses to my query! Thank you all! I guess my cousin just wants to believe the fairy story about Alsace-Lorraine for some reason, and doesn't want to know about any facts. That will be her choice! Oh well..... From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:14 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) This is my understanding of the situation: The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part of France. Alzey, however, has always been in the German state of Hesse-Darmstadt. The confusion, as I see it is in the fact that on various occasions, as a result of war, that part of Hesse-Darmstadt on the west side of the Rhein River has been occupied by France, i.e., the Napoleonic Wars, WWI and WWII. In each instance the territory was eventually returned to the German state. Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and Lorraine by the French. Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will correct me. Marleen Van Horne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3473 - Release Date: 02/28/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So far, I've been getting some marvelous responses to my query! Thank you all! I guess my cousin just wants to believe the fairy story about Alsace-Lorraine for some reason, and doesn't want to know about any facts. That will be her choice! Oh well..... From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:14 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) This is my understanding of the situation: The Alsace/Lorraine region is/was a state that under different political circumstances was in either Germany or France. It is currently a part of France. Alzey, however, has always been in the German state of Hesse-Darmstadt. The confusion, as I see it is in the fact that on various occasions, as a result of war, that part of Hesse-Darmstadt on the west side of the Rhein River has been occupied by France, i.e., the Napoleonic Wars, WWI and WWII. In each instance the territory was eventually returned to the German state. Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans and Lorraine by the French. Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border with France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will correct me. Marleen Van Horne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3473 - Release Date: 02/28/11

Alsace-Lorraine >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Imperial territory of Alsace-Lorraine (German: Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen, generally Elsass-Lothringen) was a territory created by the German Empire in 1871 after the annexation of most of Alsace and the Moselle region of Lorraine in the Franco-Prussian War. The Alsatian part lay in the Rhine Valley on the west bank of the Rhine River and east of the Vosges Mountains. The Lorraine section was in the upper Moselle valley to the north of the Vosges Mountains. These territories had become part of Eastern Francia in 921 during the reign of King Louis the German, and later became part of the Holy Roman Empire. Their population spoke Germanic and Romance dialects. Those in Alsace spoke in their vast majority Germanic dialects, in particular Alsatian, an Alemannic German dialect similar to that spoken on the opposite bank of the Rhine, while those in Lorraine were divided roughly equally between those who spoke the Romance Lorrain dialect and those who spoke Franconian German dialects. The area had gradually become part of France between 1552, when Metz was ceded to the Kingdom of France, and 1798, when the Republic of Mulhouse joined the French Republic. After the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, the area was annexed by the newly-created German Empire in 1871 by the Treaty of Frankfurt and became a Reichsland. French troops entered Alsace-Lorraine in November 1918 at the end of the World War I and the territory reverted to France at the Treaty of Versailles of 1919. The area was de facto annexed by Nazi Germany in 1940 (although no official de jure annexation took place), but reverted to France in 1944-1945 at the end of World War II and has remained a part of France since. In 1871, the Reichsland of Elsaß-Lothringen was made up of 93% of Alsace (7% remained French) and 26% of Lorraine (74% remained French). For historical reasons, specific legal dispositions are still applied in the territory in form of a local law. In relation to its special legal status, the territory has since its reversion to France been referred to as Alsace-Moselle.[1]