Just my perception (based on what I heard my German-descended relatives speak about): If the fairy story was being told during the period(s) in our history where anti-German sentiment was extremely high, that story might have probably been told out of fear of being attacked for "being German" and self-preservation. Just my half-cent's worth of opinion, (FWIW). Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ================================================= ________________________________ From: Kathy Cochran <kathys_old_house@goldrush.com> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 2:32:04 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions I completely second that about not trusting family history! For some reason my grandmother helped to perpetuate a "fairy story" that our family (Adam & Sophia Born) was from Alsace-Lorraine, where I looked and looked and looked in vain. I FINALLY found them in Alzey, Hessen, Darmstadt, (thanks to Alexis Jungk, on this list!) . There was never any acknowledgment that we were German at all! Now I know why I'm so stubborn (smile)! And, from what I have gathered Alzey was NEVER within the boundaries of Alsace-Lorraine, even though the boundaries of that area were ever changing due to the wars. I only wish I knew why this was so! (the fairy story) Kathy Cochran San Andreas, CA From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Raymond F. Gunther Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 11:06 AM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions Do Not Trust Family Oral History !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hofacker" <chofack@gmail.com> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions > Hi all -- > > I would second Pat's answer. Explore but then keep the results tagged as > tentative or exploratory until a more definitive result emerges. In the > meantime you might help someone else. > > While on this general topic of jumping to conclusions, when I am not > investigating family roots in Hesse, in my other life I do statistical > stuff. I have been looking in vain for books or articles on how to apply > statistical or mathematical reasoning to questions like these. > > In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great > grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from > Salmunster, > a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, > but > I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a > mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they > related? > > Has anyone run into any technical or mathematical writings on assessing > these sorts of questions? > > Mostly what I see is the conservative ideal to not jump to conclusions > unless you are absolutely certain, which I interpret to mean that the > probability of you being wrong when you say person X is related is "small" > and the probability that you are correct is "large". I have not seen any > tools that help you calculate these probabilities or advice as to how to > approach the problem of doing such calculations. > > Anyone with mathematical or computational interests should feel free to > email me for a draft spreadsheet I have worked up to help me decide the > question. > __________________________________________________________________ > Charles Hofacker: My <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > FSU<http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > Page <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> | > Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/chofack> > | Delicious <http://www.delicious.com/chofack> | > Twitter<http://twitter.com/chofack> > <http://twitter.com/chofack> > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 09:29, Pat McCoy <p.a.mccoy@att.net> wrote: > >> >From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to >> explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for >> you. If it turns out that the person is not related, >> you could still share it with someone else who >> may be looking for it. >> >> Pat McCoy, M.S. >> >> Addiction Psychology >> >> Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! >> ================================================== >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> >> To: hesse@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM >> Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions >> >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this >> set of >> events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in >> Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from >> Kircheimbolanden, >> Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of >> Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, >> b. >> circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a >> shepherd. >> >> Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one >> Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting >> the >> town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from >> Kirscheimbolanden >> and about an hour from Gross-Karben. >> >> Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 >> great >> grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in >> Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bev W >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes - you can imagine the consternation I caused in our family when the gggreat grandmother who supposedly was the daughter of someone in the Danish royalty but his family had made him annul the marriage because her mother was a commoner (or she was a princess herself and had to flee to America to marry the commoner she loved - depending on the version you heard) turned out to be the illegitimate daughter of a house maid and a shopkeeper. She was raised by her stepgrandparents in another parish and this fairy story I'm sure was concocted to cover up her illegitimacy and explain to her half-sibings who didn't know she existed until she was in her 20s, why she wasn't raised by her mother and stepfather, and then was embellished as generations and years went by. But my finding the birth records and census records in Denmark dashed the hopes of several who had dreams of being "great Danes." :-) Lenise On 3/14/2011 11:32 AM, Kathy Cochran wrote: > I completely second that about not trusting family history! For some reason > my grandmother helped to perpetuate a "fairy story" that our family (Adam& > Sophia Born) was from Alsace-Lorraine, where I looked and looked and looked > in vain. I FINALLY found them in Alzey, Hessen, Darmstadt, (thanks to > Alexis Jungk, on this list!) . There was never any acknowledgment that we > were German at all! Now I know why I'm so stubborn (smile)! And, from what > I have gathered Alzey was NEVER within the boundaries of Alsace-Lorraine, > even though the boundaries of that area were ever changing due to the wars. > > > > > I only wish I knew why this was so! (the fairy story) > > > > Kathy Cochran >

I completely second that about not trusting family history! For some reason my grandmother helped to perpetuate a "fairy story" that our family (Adam & Sophia Born) was from Alsace-Lorraine, where I looked and looked and looked in vain. I FINALLY found them in Alzey, Hessen, Darmstadt, (thanks to Alexis Jungk, on this list!) . There was never any acknowledgment that we were German at all! Now I know why I'm so stubborn (smile)! And, from what I have gathered Alzey was NEVER within the boundaries of Alsace-Lorraine, even though the boundaries of that area were ever changing due to the wars. I only wish I knew why this was so! (the fairy story) Kathy Cochran San Andreas, CA From: hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hesse-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Raymond F. Gunther Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 11:06 AM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions Do Not Trust Family Oral History !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hofacker" <chofack@gmail.com> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions > Hi all -- > > I would second Pat's answer. Explore but then keep the results tagged as > tentative or exploratory until a more definitive result emerges. In the > meantime you might help someone else. > > While on this general topic of jumping to conclusions, when I am not > investigating family roots in Hesse, in my other life I do statistical > stuff. I have been looking in vain for books or articles on how to apply > statistical or mathematical reasoning to questions like these. > > In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great > grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from > Salmunster, > a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, > but > I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a > mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they > related? > > Has anyone run into any technical or mathematical writings on assessing > these sorts of questions? > > Mostly what I see is the conservative ideal to not jump to conclusions > unless you are absolutely certain, which I interpret to mean that the > probability of you being wrong when you say person X is related is "small" > and the probability that you are correct is "large". I have not seen any > tools that help you calculate these probabilities or advice as to how to > approach the problem of doing such calculations. > > Anyone with mathematical or computational interests should feel free to > email me for a draft spreadsheet I have worked up to help me decide the > question. > __________________________________________________________________ > Charles Hofacker: My <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > FSU<http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > Page <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> | > Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/chofack> > | Delicious <http://www.delicious.com/chofack> | > Twitter<http://twitter.com/chofack> > <http://twitter.com/chofack> > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 09:29, Pat McCoy <p.a.mccoy@att.net> wrote: > >> >From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to >> explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for >> you. If it turns out that the person is not related, >> you could still share it with someone else who >> may be looking for it. >> >> Pat McCoy, M.S. >> >> Addiction Psychology >> >> Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! >> ================================================== >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> >> To: hesse@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM >> Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions >> >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this >> set of >> events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in >> Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from >> Kircheimbolanden, >> Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of >> Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, >> b. >> circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a >> shepherd. >> >> Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one >> Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting >> the >> town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from >> Kirscheimbolanden >> and about an hour from Gross-Karben. >> >> Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 >> great >> grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in >> Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bev W >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11

Raymond, Amen and Amen, again. Marleen Van Horne

AMEN to THAT! Learned to search for documentation before I would accept ANY relative's word about anything!!! It got to be FUN when they would attempt to INSIST that such-and-such was an ABSOLUTE FACT and I would produce black-and-white legal documentation that NEGATED EVERYTHING they tried to insist on! (This was in connection to the truth about my own father!) That finally stopped all the "mind games" when they realized I wasn't buying the bull! Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ======================================== ________________________________ From: Raymond F. Gunther <raygun33@optonline.net> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 2:06:01 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions Do Not Trust Family Oral History !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hofacker" <chofack@gmail.com> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions > Hi all -- > > I would second Pat's answer. Explore but then keep the results tagged as > tentative or exploratory until a more definitive result emerges. In the > meantime you might help someone else. > > While on this general topic of jumping to conclusions, when I am not > investigating family roots in Hesse, in my other life I do statistical > stuff. I have been looking in vain for books or articles on how to apply > statistical or mathematical reasoning to questions like these. > > In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great > grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from > Salmunster, > a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, > but > I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a > mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they > related? > > Has anyone run into any technical or mathematical writings on assessing > these sorts of questions? > > Mostly what I see is the conservative ideal to not jump to conclusions > unless you are absolutely certain, which I interpret to mean that the > probability of you being wrong when you say person X is related is "small" > and the probability that you are correct is "large". I have not seen any > tools that help you calculate these probabilities or advice as to how to > approach the problem of doing such calculations. > > Anyone with mathematical or computational interests should feel free to > email me for a draft spreadsheet I have worked up to help me decide the > question. > __________________________________________________________________ > Charles Hofacker: My <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > FSU<http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> > Page <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> | > Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/chofack> > | Delicious <http://www.delicious.com/chofack> | > Twitter<http://twitter.com/chofack> > <http://twitter.com/chofack> > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 09:29, Pat McCoy <p.a.mccoy@att.net> wrote: > >> >From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to >> explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for >> you. If it turns out that the person is not related, >> you could still share it with someone else who >> may be looking for it. >> >> Pat McCoy, M.S. >> >> Addiction Psychology >> >> Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! >> ================================================== >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> >> To: hesse@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM >> Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions >> >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this >> set of >> events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in >> Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from >> Kircheimbolanden, >> Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of >> Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, >> b. >> circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a >> shepherd. >> >> Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one >> Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting >> the >> town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from >> Kirscheimbolanden >> and about an hour from Gross-Karben. >> >> Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 >> great >> grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in >> Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bev W >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all -- I would second Pat's answer. Explore but then keep the results tagged as tentative or exploratory until a more definitive result emerges. In the meantime you might help someone else. While on this general topic of jumping to conclusions, when I am not investigating family roots in Hesse, in my other life I do statistical stuff. I have been looking in vain for books or articles on how to apply statistical or mathematical reasoning to questions like these. In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from Salmunster, a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, but I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they related? Has anyone run into any technical or mathematical writings on assessing these sorts of questions? Mostly what I see is the conservative ideal to not jump to conclusions unless you are absolutely certain, which I interpret to mean that the probability of you being wrong when you say person X is related is "small" and the probability that you are correct is "large". I have not seen any tools that help you calculate these probabilities or advice as to how to approach the problem of doing such calculations. Anyone with mathematical or computational interests should feel free to email me for a draft spreadsheet I have worked up to help me decide the question. __________________________________________________________________ Charles Hofacker: My <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> FSU<http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> Page <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> | Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/chofack> | Delicious <http://www.delicious.com/chofack> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/chofack> <http://twitter.com/chofack> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 09:29, Pat McCoy <p.a.mccoy@att.net> wrote: > >From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to > explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for > you. If it turns out that the person is not related, > you could still share it with someone else who > may be looking for it. > > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > ================================================== > > > ________________________________ > From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM > Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions > > > > > Hi everyone, > > I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this > set of > events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in > Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from Kircheimbolanden, > Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of > Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, b. > circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a > shepherd. > > Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one > Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting > the > town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from > Kirscheimbolanden > and about an hour from Gross-Karben. > > Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 > great > grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in > Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. > > Thanks, > > Bev W > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Do you ever wonder why they settled in a particular spot, aside from the obvious areas like New York? Perhaps Killian went to this area because of Francis or vice-versa. I've said it before, but newspapers are amazing at linking and identifying relation. And try to pick up birth records for everyone in the old country with your surname, you may find Francis, as a brother or cousin. As far as statistics, I can't say, Math was my worst subject. I don't really care what the stats might be, I'm more about finding the actual connections. Susan Sent from my iPhone On Mar 14, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Charles Hofacker <chofack@gmail.com> wrote: > > > In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great > grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from Salmunster, > a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, but > I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a > mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they > related? > >

I can identify with what you describe, especially when it involves a family name that is very rare. The more I find two specific people turning up close to each, repeatedly, including adjoining burial plots, the more my gut keeps telling me that they are related. It's just a question of turning over the right "rock" and finding that ONE document that says: "BINGO!" It took quite a while for my cousins and I to finally unearth the proof we were looking for that indicated that two SONNEMANN men are, indeed, brothers. We just kept persisting. Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ============================================== ________________________________ From: Charles Hofacker <chofack@gmail.com> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 11:12:56 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions Hi all -- I would second Pat's answer. Explore but then keep the results tagged as tentative or exploratory until a more definitive result emerges. In the meantime you might help someone else. While on this general topic of jumping to conclusions, when I am not investigating family roots in Hesse, in my other life I do statistical stuff. I have been looking in vain for books or articles on how to apply statistical or mathematical reasoning to questions like these. In my own case, I call it the 'Francis Hofacker' problem. My great-great grand uncle Killian Hofacker migrated to Carbon County, PA, from Salmunster, a town east of Frankfurt. My family was well acquainted with this fact, but I have recently discovered that a certain Francis Hofacker lived about a mile and a half from Killian. So is this a coincidence or were they related? Has anyone run into any technical or mathematical writings on assessing these sorts of questions? Mostly what I see is the conservative ideal to not jump to conclusions unless you are absolutely certain, which I interpret to mean that the probability of you being wrong when you say person X is related is "small" and the probability that you are correct is "large". I have not seen any tools that help you calculate these probabilities or advice as to how to approach the problem of doing such calculations. Anyone with mathematical or computational interests should feel free to email me for a draft spreadsheet I have worked up to help me decide the question. __________________________________________________________________ Charles Hofacker: My <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> FSU<http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> Page <http://myweb.fsu.edu/chofacker> | Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/chofack> | Delicious <http://www.delicious.com/chofack> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/chofack> <http://twitter.com/chofack> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 09:29, Pat McCoy <p.a.mccoy@att.net> wrote: > >From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to > explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for > you. If it turns out that the person is not related, > you could still share it with someone else who > may be looking for it. > > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > ================================================== > > > ________________________________ > From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM > Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions > > > > > Hi everyone, > > I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this > set of > events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in > Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from Kircheimbolanden, > Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of > Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, b. > circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a > shepherd. > > Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one > Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting > the > town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from > Kirscheimbolanden > and about an hour from Gross-Karben. > > Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 > great > grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in > Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. > > Thanks, > > Bev W > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi everyone, I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this set of events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from Kircheimbolanden, Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, b. circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a shepherd. Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting the town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from Kirscheimbolanden and about an hour from Gross-Karben. Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 great grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. Thanks, Bev W

>From my perspective, I don't think it will hurt to explore this possible clue to see if it pans out for you. If it turns out that the person is not related, you could still share it with someone else who may be looking for it. Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ================================================== ________________________________ From: "user917826@aol.com" <user917826@aol.com> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 8:17:54 AM Subject: [HESSE] Jumping to conclusions Hi everyone, I often jump to conclusions but I would like someone to weigh in on this set of events. My 3 ggrandfather, Johann George Heck, b. 13 Sept. 1811 in Gross-Karben, left his home town and married a woman from Kircheimbolanden, Bayern in 1840. Johann Georg was the son of Johann Heinrich Heck also of Karben. Following the trail back, our earliest ancestor, Hermann Heck, b. circa 1703 was not from Karben but came there by 1750, working as a shepherd. Going through my notebooks for possible Heck connections, I revisited one Heinrich Heck b. 1657 and d. 1718, in Dauerheim, Oberhessen. Mapquesting the town, I have found that it appears to be about 7 minutes from Kirscheimbolanden and about an hour from Gross-Karben. Would it be likely that there might be a family connection here? My 3 great grandfather was a "master tailor" from Karben. He raised his children in Kirscheimbolanden and left for the US circa 1850 when he was widowed. Thanks, Bev W ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Don. Yes, I've seen both spellings and am aware of how names can be misspelled/miss-written during records on entries to US, so I've searched both spellings. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Don Watson Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 1:29 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: [HESSE] Jung and Jungk Both are the same surname, the latter is found mostly in Austria. However, you can use the German telephone directory found at http://members.cox.net/hessen/telephones.htm to do a lot of research on surnames. :-) Don Watson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Both are the same surname, the latter is found mostly in Austria. However, you can use the German telephone directory found at http://members.cox.net/hessen/telephones.htm to do a lot of research on surnames. :-) Don Watson

Hi Alexis, Thanks for your reply to my query. I noticed that the letter "k" is still in the spelling of Jungk, which tells me that my Jung and your Junk are not the same, but thanks anyway - Best regards, Joan -----Original Message----- From: alexis jungk Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 2:45 PM To: hesse@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) Hi Joan, not at this point of my research, but who knows what further digging can bring? I do have a Charles(Carl) Jungk in Pa. though, 'circumstantial evidence' indicates he was my grgrgrandfather's brother; he seems to have been a bachelor. Alexis 20113/1 <rijoperk@twcny.rr.com> > Hi, > I have Jung ancestors from Lich, Hesse - Carl Jung was his name - married > Margaretha Keppel/Koeppel (umlaut over "o") - any connection? Thanks. > Joan > Perkins - NYS > > -----Original Message----- > From: alexis jungk > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:05 AM > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HESSE] (no subject) > > Hi, > I have ancestors who were originally from Metz (Lorraine/Lothringen/Meuze > et > Moselle), moved to Kassel (Hesse) and a few generations later they > had spread almost all around the world. So it is posible that the Borns or > maybe a female ancestor did come from somewhere else in Europe. > Aditionally, after the 30 Years War, inmigration was encouraged by many > german rulers in order to repopulate their lands, and many at the time of > the church reformation received groups fleeing their homes, in the case of > France they were mainly hugonots (hope I got the spelling right). > Alexis > 2011/3/1 <brian@amason.net> > > > > Alsace and Lorraine are the same place, called Alsace by the Germans > and > > > Lorraine by the French. > > Alsace and Lorraine are most definitely NOT the same place. Different > > peoples, different dialects, different rulers, different histories. > > > > Lorraine fell to Richeleiu. Alsace fell to France, piecewise, as a > > result > > of very slick manipulation of treaties at the close of the Thirty Years > > War, and was disputed for centuries. In fact it was that very treaty > > that > > was the grain of sand in the oyster from which all the latter wars were > > partly born. The free city of Strasbourg was the last Alsatian property > to > > fall by that treaty, due to the lack of action of a weak and feeble > > Emperor. Alsace was historically a German State. The Kings of France > > chipped away at the territory over centuries. > > > > There was much travel back and forth between the border by the people. > > Bits of Alsace were under the dominion of the house of Hesse. It's very > > possible your cousin has some foundation. But Alzey was part of the > > Palatinate. Not Hesse-Darmstadt, until very late in the history of the > > German States (1814). > > Alzey was, I believe part of the Bishopric of Strasbourg, which is in > > Alsace. > > > > Part of Alsace belonged to the House of Hesse-Kassel, for a time. But > > not > > Hess-Darmstadt. Hesse and the whole area has a very complex and twisted > > history. It's almost impossible to make any statement about the area > > that > > is true without qualifying the exact time period you are referring to. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > Hessen is north and east of Alsace/Lorraine, and is well within the > > > borders of present day Germany. This state does not share a border > with > > > France, and was only under French control as an occupied territory. > > > > > > I am sure if I have gotten this wrong, someone more knowledgeable will > > > correct me. > > > > > > Marleen Van Horne > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks! I presume this will include military records before 1881? Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ===================================== ________________________________ From: "r.maluck@t-online.de" <r.maluck@t-online.de> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:45:47 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/inhaltsverzeichnisgliederungLw.htm The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:40:37 -0800 > From: p.a.mccoy@att.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > I'm on another genealogy discussion group and > a fellow member asked for help with the following > question: > > > Is there a place you can access Hessian Army records? > > > > I was looking in newspaper archives for information on my husband's 4th great > grandfather, Nicholas Maul. Nicholas was born May 1, 1797 in Hesse Cassel > Germany and died in Indiana County PA on February 9, 1881. > > > > I found the following article in an Indiana County Paper under a large section > on the history of the county in honor of the countries' bicentential. > > > > Indiana Evening Gazette (Indiana, Pennsylvania) - July 3, 1976 page D-27 > > > > Some former soldiers in the Hessian Army also settled in North Mahoning: > Nicholas Maul, with 15 years Hessian service, in 1834. Casper Wortman, 10 years > service, came in 1836. Henry Hoffman, 4 years service, came 1850. > > > ========================================================= > > Can anyone answer this question? > > Thanks! > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Mar 3, 2011, at 8:46 AM, J. Eggers wrote: > Debra, > > Do you have thee-mail for the Hessisches Staatsarchiv Darmstadt. I > also have ancestors from Hesse.....Specifically Flonheim & Badenheim > and would like to receive some information. You'll need to locate a possible file of interest first. Start your search here at HADIS (Hessisches Archiv-Dokumentations- und Informations-System): http://www.hadis.hessen.de/scripts/HADIS.DLL/home?SID=794-467A3E1-B3FF1&PID=E5CF Type in a surname in the "Schnellsuche" box in the lower left-hand corner and select records of interest from the results. You may get results in the District Court database (Amtsgericht), biographical information, emigrant list (Auswanderer-Nachweise), etc. Or there may be nothing. If there are results from your surname search, click the database of interest for further information. A file number is located to the left of the file name. If you see something of interest and want to inquire about it, email the Hessisches Hauptstaatsarchiv at poststelle@hhstaw.hessen.de and give them the file number and file title. In about a week they'll respond with a quote for copies and postage. I haven't written to them in English, just German, so I don't know how well they do with requests in English. Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage

Debra, Do you have thee-mail for the Hessisches Staatsarchiv Darmstadt. I also have ancestors from Hesse.....Specifically Flonheim & Badenheim and would like to receive some information. Thanks. On Mar 2, 2011, at 9:39 PM, D.L. MacLaughlan-Dumes wrote: > > Has anyone here obtained archival material from the Hessisches > Staatsarchiv Darmstadt and, if so, how did you determine what to > order? > > I got a nice email from a representative to whom I'd written, asking > about an estate file for my 4x great-grandfather Georg Philipp > Schuchmann. Apparently the file runs to 320 pages and deals with > multiple-year guardianship issues from 1817-1827. I may not need > that level of detail. > > The cost for all 320 pages is a bit prohibitive but they're willing > to send me either an inventory ("Vormundschaftsrechnungen") or a > "mass reckoning" (not sure how else to translate "Masserechnung") > for a more affordable rate. > > My goal is to find some reference to the date of my ancestor's > death, his age at death, and perhaps (if I'm lucky) a reference to > his parents' names. Does anyone here have a suggestion for what I > should request? Which of the two options (the inventory or mass > reckoning) is likely to be more helpful? > > Any ideas will be helpful, I'm sure, and I'd be grateful for > clarification. > > Regards, > Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes > http://sakionline.net/familypage > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message J. Eggers Msgene@mac.com

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/inhaltsverzeichnisgliederungLw.htm The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:40:37 -0800 > From: p.a.mccoy@att.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > I'm on another genealogy discussion group and > a fellow member asked for help with the following > question: > > > Is there a place you can access Hessian Army records? > > > > I was looking in newspaper archives for information on my husband's 4th great > grandfather, Nicholas Maul. Nicholas was born May 1, 1797 in Hesse Cassel > Germany and died in Indiana County PA on February 9, 1881. > > > > I found the following article in an Indiana County Paper under a large section > on the history of the county in honor of the countries' bicentential. > > > > Indiana Evening Gazette (Indiana, Pennsylvania) - July 3, 1976 page D-27 > > > > Some former soldiers in the Hessian Army also settled in North Mahoning: > Nicholas Maul, with 15 years Hessian service, in 1834. Casper Wortman, 10 years > service, came in 1836. Henry Hoffman, 4 years service, came 1850. > > > ========================================================= > > Can anyone answer this question? > > Thanks! > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm hoping someone can help me. I have a letter from 1869 that is written in German. I would appreciate a translation if anyone can help me. The letter is four pages long and images are at the following. page 1 = <http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%201.jpg>http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%201.jpg page 2 = <http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%202.jpg>http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%202.jpg page 3 = <http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%203.jpg>http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%203.jpg page 4 = <http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%204.jpg>http://www.rafert.org/Behnken/1869%20Letter%204.jpg Thank you!! Joel http://www.rafert.org/home

That's all I entered, and got several sites. Just putting in GERMAN SOLDIERS WW 1 or WW 11 also worked for me. ALSO Luftwaffe Archives 'and Records Reference Group'. They are still adding, but at least a start for us on this side of the pond. I found a couple of my relatives, as well as a tombstone, but return each week hoping for more. Marilyn > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:30:25 -0800 > From: p.a.mccoy@att.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > Thanks, M. Baron. > > Is there a website for the Luftwaffe Archives > and Records Reference Group or other contact > information? > > Thanks, again! > > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > =============================================== > > > ________________________________ > From: M BARON <mbaron2@sympatico.ca> > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 3:26:17 PM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > > The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group > > > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:40:37 -0800 > > From: p.a.mccoy@att.net > > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > > > I'm on another genealogy discussion group and > > a fellow member asked for help with the following > > question: > > > > > Is there a place you can access Hessian Army records? > > > > > > I was looking in newspaper archives for information on my husband's 4th > great > > grandfather, Nicholas Maul. Nicholas was born May 1, 1797 in Hesse Cassel > > Germany and died in Indiana County PA on February 9, 1881. > > > > > > I found the following article in an Indiana County Paper under a large > >section > > on the history of the county in honor of the countries' bicentential. > > > > > > Indiana Evening Gazette (Indiana, Pennsylvania) - July 3, 1976 page D-27 > > > > > > Some former soldiers in the Hessian Army also settled in North Mahoning: > > Nicholas Maul, with 15 years Hessian service, in 1834. Casper Wortman, 10 > years > > service, came in 1836. Henry Hoffman, 4 years service, came 1850. > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > Can anyone answer this question? > > > > Thanks! > > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > > > Addiction Psychology > > > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > >subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:40:37 -0800 > From: p.a.mccoy@att.net > To: hesse@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSE] Atempting to Help Someone From Another Group > > I'm on another genealogy discussion group and > a fellow member asked for help with the following > question: > > > Is there a place you can access Hessian Army records? > > > > I was looking in newspaper archives for information on my husband's 4th great > grandfather, Nicholas Maul. Nicholas was born May 1, 1797 in Hesse Cassel > Germany and died in Indiana County PA on February 9, 1881. > > > > I found the following article in an Indiana County Paper under a large section > on the history of the county in honor of the countries' bicentential. > > > > Indiana Evening Gazette (Indiana, Pennsylvania) - July 3, 1976 page D-27 > > > > Some former soldiers in the Hessian Army also settled in North Mahoning: > Nicholas Maul, with 15 years Hessian service, in 1834. Casper Wortman, 10 years > service, came in 1836. Henry Hoffman, 4 years service, came 1850. > > > ========================================================= > > Can anyone answer this question? > > Thanks! > Pat McCoy, M.S. > > Addiction Psychology > > Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message