________________________________ From: "hesse-request@rootsweb.com" <hesse-request@rootsweb.com> To: hesse@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 12:00:36 AM Subject: HESSE Digest, Vol 6, Issue 50 ***IMPORTANT*** When replying to a digest message, DO NOT just hit Reply (which will send the entire digest back to the list).  Remove all text (the rest of the digest) leaving only the specific message to which you are replying.  Also IMPORTANT, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. Failure to do so will result in a change of your subscription from digest to single message mode. Today's Topics:   1. Re: Leopold (Lippold) (Helen Sanders) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:01:52 -0400 From: Helen Sanders <landhsanders@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [HESSE] Leopold (Lippold) To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <SNT122-W25B20791DE8587EA0A5D82DCB30@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Nancy, Do you have a marriage record that might give the town in Germany? If you have no marriage record and they married in Baltimore, you might try contacting the Zion Church of the City of Baltimore. The address and telephone number should be in the telephone directory.It was established mainly for German immigrants I believe and if you write they will look in their records for a small fee. You may get the info you need there. I got  info on my greatgrandparents from Hessen from the church genealogist. Good luck, Helen > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:20:10 -0400 > From: namatusz@gmail.com > To: HESSE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSE] Leopold (Lippold) > > I'm looking for information on Henry Leopold (Lippold). Born around 1824 in > Hesse-Darmstadt. He immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland in 1846 and married > Maria Elizabeth Miller (born around 1825, also from Hesse-Darmstadt). They > had eight children and by 1870 had moved from Baltimore to Detroit, > Michigan. > > I don't know anything more specific about where in Germany they both > originated. Just Hesse-Darmstadt. Any help or suggestions are welcome! > > Thanks, > > Nancy >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message                         ------------------------------ To contact the HESSE list administrator, send an email to HESSE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the HESSE mailing list, send an email to HESSE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of HESSE Digest, Vol 6, Issue 50 ************************************

Hi Nancy, Do you have a marriage record that might give the town in Germany? If you have no marriage record and they married in Baltimore, you might try contacting the Zion Church of the City of Baltimore. The address and telephone number should be in the telephone directory.It was established mainly for German immigrants I believe and if you write they will look in their records for a small fee. You may get the info you need there. I got info on my greatgrandparents from Hessen from the church genealogist. Good luck, Helen > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:20:10 -0400 > From: namatusz@gmail.com > To: HESSE@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSE] Leopold (Lippold) > > I'm looking for information on Henry Leopold (Lippold). Born around 1824 in > Hesse-Darmstadt. He immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland in 1846 and married > Maria Elizabeth Miller (born around 1825, also from Hesse-Darmstadt). They > had eight children and by 1870 had moved from Baltimore to Detroit, > Michigan. > > I don't know anything more specific about where in Germany they both > originated. Just Hesse-Darmstadt. Any help or suggestions are welcome! > > Thanks, > > Nancy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This should get you started: http://seekingmichigan.cdmhost.com/seeking_michigan/discover_item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/p129401coll7&CISOPTR=952149&search=CISOOP1%3Dall%26CISOBOX1%3Dhenry%26CISOFIELD1%3Ddescri%26CISOOP2%3Dall%26CISOBOX2%3Dlippold%26CISOFIELD2%3Dcreato%26CISOOP3%3Dany%26CISOBOX3%3D%26CISOFIELD3%3DCISOSEARCHALL%26CISOOP4%3Dnone%26CISOBOX4%3D%26CISOFIELD4%3DCISOSEARCHALL%26CISOROOT%3D%252Fp129401coll7%26x%3D41%26y%3D10%26CISOSTART%3D1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Matuszak" <namatusz@gmail.com> To: <HESSE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: [HESSE] Leopold (Lippold) > I'm looking for information on Henry Leopold (Lippold). Born around 1824 > in > Hesse-Darmstadt. He immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland in 1846 and married > Maria Elizabeth Miller (born around 1825, also from Hesse-Darmstadt). They > had eight children and by 1870 had moved from Baltimore to Detroit, > Michigan. > > I don't know anything more specific about where in Germany they both > originated. Just Hesse-Darmstadt. Any help or suggestions are welcome! > > Thanks, > > Nancy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I'm looking for information on Henry Leopold (Lippold). Born around 1824 in Hesse-Darmstadt. He immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland in 1846 and married Maria Elizabeth Miller (born around 1825, also from Hesse-Darmstadt). They had eight children and by 1870 had moved from Baltimore to Detroit, Michigan. I don't know anything more specific about where in Germany they both originated. Just Hesse-Darmstadt. Any help or suggestions are welcome! Thanks, Nancy

I have nothing to add to the list of nicknames, but will say this, I have only seen in two instances of nicknames used in official Baden or Hessian records, and one of those was Hans. The other, I only came across last week and I've forgotten it already. To be sure, I only looked at a few thousand records, so my experience can't be said to be extensive enough to draw any conclusions from. I have seen many names abbreviated. Really any name, depending on what names were common in the town at the time. Such as Magd. for Magdalena; Joes for Joannes/Johannes; A. Maria or M. Ana (with a bar over the n); etc. Was Appolonia a common name? Maybe it's abbreviated. Maybe she was baptized in one faith and raised in another? Maybe she was baptized in her mother's/father's church and married in the other's? She may have died with her husband's name, and you won't find her maiden name in the record. Did her family emigrate? Did she emigrate as a single woman? Brian On Fri, March 18, 2011 10:36 am, Helen Sanders wrote: > > > Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl > by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after > the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not > under Mary or Maria or Polly. > > Thanks for any help! > > Helen

I do not know about nicknames for Appolonia, but if she is German she may also have had another name or more, and be called by one of he other namesl. I also have Danish ancestors with the name spelled in different ways .My closest ancestor with that name was born Ane Kirsten Abelone Larson, and was called Ane Anderson when she came to the US in 1853. In a message dated 3/18/2011 11:38:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, joelsr@gmail.com writes: I know of a few in the mid-1800s, they used Lena Joel www.rafert.org/home At 11:36 AM 3/18/2011, Helen Sanders wrote: >Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl >by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after >the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not >under Mary or Maria or Polly. > >Thanks for any help! > >Helen > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I know of a few in the mid-1800s, they used Lena Joel www.rafert.org/home At 11:36 AM 3/18/2011, Helen Sanders wrote: >Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl >by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after >the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not >under Mary or Maria or Polly. > >Thanks for any help! > >Helen > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Helen. My grandmothers name was Appolona, her granddaughter was named Appolonia. My grandmothers baptism cert. reads Maria Abelone and she always went by the name Lena. I do hope this helps you. Arden ADAM, ADLER, COLE, CHAUNCEY BEAVER, SCHERMULY, TERHORST, ZYFERS > > Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl > by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after > the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not > under Mary or Maria or Polly. > > Thanks for any help! > > Helen > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not under Mary or Maria or Polly. Thanks for any help! Helen

Hi Helen,   We had a couple Appolonias in my family as well, and they chose to go by Pauline.   Julie --- On Fri, 3/18/11, Helen Sanders <landhsanders@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Helen Sanders <landhsanders@hotmail.com> Subject: [HESSE] Nickname for Appolonia? To: hesse-l@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 11:36 AM Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia?  A young girl by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not under Mary or Maria or Polly. Thanks for any help! Helen                           ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is "Lona" a possibility? I've seen that name from time to time. Pat McCoy, M.S. Addiction Psychology Slow Down and Enjoy Your Garden! ============================================= ________________________________ From: Helen Sanders <landhsanders@hotmail.com> To: hesse-l@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, March 18, 2011 11:36:19 AM Subject: [HESSE] Nickname for Appolonia? Is there a common "nickname" for the name Appolonia? A young girl by the name of Maria Appolonia was b in 1740, but can't be found after the birth record. Under what other name could I search?......She's not under Mary or Maria or Polly. Thanks for any help! Helen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Walter, KORNDÖRFER, Heinrich Ludwig, Marstallsekretär, he was a secretary at the "Leibstall der Großherzogin Wilhelmine", a horse stable ("Marstall") for the duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse-Darmstadt (*Karlsruhe 10.9.1788 - +Darmstadt 27.1.1836) in the city of Darmstadt ("ebb" is wrong written, should be "ebd", ebenda = just there (in Darmstadt)) I think he made the daily rapport about that stable to the duchess, also did the "paperwork" and ordered the supplies belonging to that facility "Rechnungsrat" was an official title, you may say "financial consultant" "hauptman" means Hauptmann (Captain) "Rgt Prinz Emil zu Worms" ? think it was the 54th infantry regiment "Prinz Emil von Hessen" prince Emil, real name Aemilianus Maximilian Leopold von Hessen und bei Rhein, born Sept 3 1790 in Darmstadt, died Apr 30 1856 in Baden-Baden, he was the "owner" of the regiment "He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864" Name Korndörfer, Heinrich Ludwig Datumsangaben Sterbedatum: 15.04.1864 Darmstadt (date of death) Hofstallsekretär Geburtsort (place of birth) Ernsthofen 16.07.1853 Rechnungsrat (in 1853) (sources) : * Quelle: Regierungsblatt 1853, Beilage 32,S. 499 * Regierungsblatt 1864, Beilage 16, S. 172 Heinrich Ludwig's widow died in 1869: KORNDÖRFER, Friederike Karoline, geb. Damm (nee Damm), Witwe des (widow of) Rechnungsrats Heinrich Ludwig Korndörfer his first wife was a Wilhelmine (N.N.), died in 1837 hope it helps! greetings from Hessen in Germany Michael

I agree to Thierry's detailed explanations. As to 'Liebstall', this is a spelling / writing error. It certainly should be 'L e i bstall'. The Duchess most certainly had her own horse stables and your ancestor then was the responsible secretary / administrator for this institution. Would be interesting to find out if there were such stables (belonging to the Duchess). The parallel to 'Leibstall' can be seen in the term 'Leibdiener', in those days the personal servant / butler of an aristocrat or rich person. Tilman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thierry Dietrich" <thierry_dietrich@yahoo.de> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Occupation Hi Walter, greetings from Germany and my personal 50c on your question... ghzgl. = großherzoglich = adjective to grand duchy Rechnung = invoice / bill Rechnungsrat = elevated official position in the financial administration Note: although "rat" indeed usually signifies "advisor", in this case has to be seen as a title. Just as the CEO has officer in his title but does not work in the army. So the Rechnungsrat's main job was not to stand around the grand duke and give him advices. It rather was an administrative (although elevated) position in the financial administration of the Grand Duchy of Hessen (Darmstadt). Secretär des Liebstalles der Großherzogin ebb.: could ebb. be ebd.? Then it would signify "ebenda" = at the same location. This position translates: Secretary of the "Liebstall" of the Grand Duchesse. I haven't heard the word Liebstall, must be an old word. Stall indeed means stables. As a secretary again he was rather managing the stables financially, not working physically in the stables... ;-) Hauptmann = Captain of the terrestrial forces Rgt. = Regiment You already got the correct translations here. All in all your ancester was a very well situated person in the Grandduchy of Hessen Darmstadt. I wonder why his (son?) emigrated to the U.S., they must have had enough money. May be he was an adventurer or a political idealist. ;-) Greetings from Hessen, Thierry Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:49:54 -0400 From: "Walter Korndoerfer" <wckkorn@hotmail.com> Subject: [HESSE] occupation To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <SNT131-ds24A52F8770EE66BBDA1DDA8CE0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am trying to find out what the occupation of my gggrandfather. His name is Heinrich Ludwig Kornd?rfer and he was born in Ernsthofen im Odenwald on Oct 19 ,1800. He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864. His occupations are listed in the family book as: ghzgl. Hesse Rechnungsrat, Secret?r des Liebstalles der Grossherzogin ebb. He was also a hauptman im Rgt Prinz Emil zu Worms. With all of these items, what actually did he do? Walter Korndoerfer wckkorn@hotmail.com ------------------------------ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Walter, greetings from Germany and my personal 50c on your question... ghzgl. = großherzoglich = adjective to grand duchy Rechnung = invoice / bill Rechnungsrat = elevated official position in the financial administration Note: although "rat" indeed usually signifies "advisor", in this case has to be seen as a title. Just as the CEO has officer in his title but does not work in the army. So the Rechnungsrat's main job was not to stand around the grand duke and give him advices. It rather was an administrative (although elevated) position in the financial administration of the Grand Duchy of Hessen (Darmstadt). Secretär des Liebstalles der Großherzogin ebb.:  could ebb. be ebd.? Then it would signify "ebenda" = at the same location. This position translates: Secretary of the "Liebstall" of the Grand Duchesse. I haven't heard the word Liebstall, must be an old word. Stall indeed means stables. As a secretary again he was rather managing the stables financially, not working physically in the stables...  ;-) Hauptmann = Captain of the terrestrial forces Rgt. = Regiment You already got the correct translations here. All in all your ancester was a very well situated person in the Grandduchy of Hessen Darmstadt. I wonder why his (son?) emigrated to the U.S., they must have had enough money. May be he was an adventurer or a political idealist.  ;-) Greetings from Hessen, Thierry Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:49:54 -0400 From: "Walter Korndoerfer" <wckkorn@hotmail.com> Subject: [HESSE] occupation To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <SNT131-ds24A52F8770EE66BBDA1DDA8CE0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" I am trying to find out what the occupation of my gggrandfather. His name is Heinrich Ludwig Kornd?rfer and he was born in Ernsthofen im Odenwald on Oct 19 ,1800. He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864. His occupations are listed in the family book as: ghzgl. Hesse Rechnungsrat, Secret?r des Liebstalles der Grossherzogin ebb. He was also a hauptman im Rgt  Prinz Emil zu Worms. With all of these items, what actually did he do? Walter Korndoerfer wckkorn@hotmail.com ------------------------------

Hauptmann is a military rank, so he was a Captain in the Prince Emil of Worms Regiment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "alexis jungk" <ajungk@gmail.com> To: <hesse@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] occupation I think the first is: advisor to the great duke/duchy of Hesse, the 2nd might be something like secretary in charge of the great duchess' stables. He probably did all, not necessarily at the same time. Alexis 2011/3/16 Walter Korndoerfer <wckkorn@hotmail.com> > I am trying to find out what the occupation of my gggrandfather. His name > is Heinrich Ludwig Korndörfer and he was born in Ernsthofen im Odenwald on > Oct 19 ,1800. He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864. His occupations are > listed in the family book as: ghzgl. Hesse Rechnungsrat, Secretär des > Liebstalles der Grossherzogin ebb. He was also a hauptman im Rgt Prinz > Emil > zu Worms. With all of these items, what actually did he do? > > > > Walter Korndoerfer > > wckkorn@hotmail.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think the first is: advisor to the great duke/duchy of Hesse, the 2nd might be something like secretary in charge of the great duchess' stables. He probably did all, not necessarily at the same time. Alexis 2011/3/16 Walter Korndoerfer <wckkorn@hotmail.com> > I am trying to find out what the occupation of my gggrandfather. His name > is Heinrich Ludwig Korndörfer and he was born in Ernsthofen im Odenwald on > Oct 19 ,1800. He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864. His occupations are > listed in the family book as: ghzgl. Hesse Rechnungsrat, Secretär des > Liebstalles der Grossherzogin ebb. He was also a hauptman im Rgt Prinz Emil > zu Worms. With all of these items, what actually did he do? > > > > Walter Korndoerfer > > wckkorn@hotmail.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HESSE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

The last is Captain in the Regiment of Prince Emil of Worms, the one before seems to be a political office. On the first my German Dictionary has nothing,.

I am trying to find out what the occupation of my gggrandfather. His name is Heinrich Ludwig Korndörfer and he was born in Ernsthofen im Odenwald on Oct 19 ,1800. He died in Darmstadt on April 15, 1864. His occupations are listed in the family book as: ghzgl. Hesse Rechnungsrat, Secretär des Liebstalles der Grossherzogin ebb. He was also a hauptman im Rgt Prinz Emil zu Worms. With all of these items, what actually did he do? Walter Korndoerfer wckkorn@hotmail.com

I have found that my KUHNHENN and VESPER ancestors were almost exclusively from the Waldeck area.

It is an interesting topic. I would think it's not too difficult to come up with a statistical approach. Wikipedia is an excellent source for data points. World, Continent, and country populations in particular times. There are many genealogy sites about towns and such, giving populations at certain times. Town histories are usually a good place to search for statistical data values. US censuses online are good means of extracting numbers from for surnames, even by localities. Mortality schedules for different periods, and modern occurrences of names could be used to back-propogate numbers alive at any given time in history, along with average birth rates. It would certainly be prone to some variation, depending on the quality of the data going in. Might need to do some level of numerical analysis on some of the data and equations. On the subject of family lore, Oh where to begin? Perhaps with my mother and her stories. Even on her name and her siblings. Even in the face of officially stamped and sealed legal documents. Or perhaps my lying gr-grandmother. Lying to NYC official clerks, no less! Saying she was 19 at the time of her legitimate child's birth. LL,POF. Yet her birth certificate says she was 17. I have never found a marriage certificate, but there were two children from this union. Have not yet found a death certificate for wife #2 either. Although, child #2 was born in wife #1's hometown, hundreds of miles from where her sister, mother, or father were born. Which proves nothing except he might have been very bold and brazen. Hmmm, no bold and brazen folks in our family. There may be quite the story or skeleton in there somewhere. Then of course, there is my uncle, who looked nothing like any member of the family (big and very tall). Who just happened to be the Lindbergh baby. Which is interesting, because it's very possible, that one of my uncle's uncles was dating a maid in the Lindbergh house (based on my research, q.v. "The Hand of Hauptman", autographed original printing). Then there is a hint to some other incident involving a gun in the family in relation to the Lindbergh story, which no one will tell me about. But that's all just the tips of the icebergs floating in the "Sea of me Family's Lore". But the truth is interesting too, one of my gr...grfathers was a "Wolf Hunter". What an interesting man he must have been. My gr...gr-Aunt the Witch. A sad story there. Take some Hessians on one side of the RW, add Patriots on the other side, mix in a few Tories that fled to Canada and stir gently. Brian On Mon, March 14, 2011 4:42 pm, Jerome Dittman wrote: > Charles > > Google the subject of genealogy mathematics, or similar terms. while doing > searches of my own suing Google, I remember that subject being mentioned a > number of times. > > Jerry Dittman > Boonsboro, MD >