Anyone on the list live in Metzebach / Spangenberg Germany/ I have a proposed DNA project that would be helped by a specimen from a male descendant of a Johannes Wilhelm Siebert or Johannes Jost Siebert born about l720 in Metzebach. He was the Secretary of the Evangelical Church there at that time. There are 22 Sieberts living in Metzebach so one should be available who is a male descendant of one of them??? Charles Severs Descendants of Unknown Siebert 1 Unknown Siebert b: in INfo from Kassel Archives on this and added gens. . 2 Joh. Jost Siebert 1720 - b: Abt. 1720 in Metzebach Kirchenbuch Kirchengemeinde Landfeld d: in unproven ancestry of Wm Severs-SPECULATIVE ..... +Anna Elsabetha Rodin 1730 - b: Abt. 1730 in Probably Dankerode Germany m: Bef. 1762 in Dankerode Germany no records bef 1762 ..... 3 WILLIAM SEVERS 1750/51 - 1852 b: February 09, 1750/51 in born Johannes Wilhelm Siebert Metzebach Germany-unproven d: August 25, 1852 in nodaway co Missouri a blacksmith ......... +Catherine Peck 1770 - 1830 b: Abt. 1770 in probably VA d: Aft. 1830 in probably Anderson Co TN m: October 14, 1793 in Montgomery Co. Va ..... 3 Catharine Elizabeth Siebert 1758 - b: 1758 in Metzebach Germany . 2 Joh. Wilhelm Sr. Siebert 1720 - b: Abt. 1720 ..... 3 Johann Wilhelm Siebert 1762 - b: December 29, 1762 in Metzebach Germany godfather Joh Wilhelm Lorbach ..... 3 Anna Martha Siebert 1765 - b: 1765 in Metzebach Germany Anna Martha Pfaffenbachin sponsor ..... 3 Johan Christian Siebert 1760 - b: 1760

My ancestors, George Phillip BREHM (About 1727-1776), and his wife, Elizabeth HELLER (about 1727-1801) sailed from Hellevoet Roads, Rotterdam for Halifax, Nova Scotia on 16 May 1752 on the 'Betty'.The passenger list stated they were from 'Sachsen.' I know that then and even today there were and are a number of different Sachsens. I also know that boundaries have changed many times. My questions: 1. Which Sachsens existed in 1752 and where are these lands today? 2. Which of these might have been a point of departure for emigrants for Canada leaving from Rotterdam? 3. Where did most German 'Foreign Protestants' emigrating to Nova Scotia originate Thanks for the help. Jim

Hello, Any information about the village (town?) of Hagen near Waldech will be gratefully received. My sister and I are planning a trip to Hesse in the spring - to visit the birthplace of my greatgreat grandmother Wilhelmina Hundertmark (Hagen) and to drive the Grimm Brothers' road...... Hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Mary Ann Eininger

On 9/3/03 6:00 PM, "HESSE-D-request@rootsweb.com" <HESSE-D-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Jay ... take a look at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarff.html in case the FRANCK > / FRANCKE / FRANKE names are yours. > Bryan. > Bryan Mawer, Wellingborough, UK > Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers Database - www.mawer.clara.net Bryan, Thank you for the suggestion, One is a possibility, but I have no other indication. I will have to wait on more information or more clues. Thanks again for the consideration. Jay -- Jay E. Frank

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Frank" > It is varying > routes like these that make it interesting. To make life interesing for me my grandfather somehow got himself to Bremen from Frankfurt am Main. In Bremen he got a job onboard a ship which made its way to Australia. In Australia he got off and never got back on. So there are no emigrant records anywhere. Thankfully we knew he was an illegal immigrant and how old he was when he arrived in Australia. We then went back to the newspapers for the time and searched for ships arriving from Germany. We then went to our state archives and poured through the original documents for those ships and found him listed as a crew member. We then had to track the ships dockings in Australia until we found him not listed as a crew member at one port (Melbourne). What remains a puzzle is why he was never listed as a deserter and he certainly isn't in the immigrant records. We can not change the wind. But we can change the sails. ~Ghandi~ Keep Looking For Rainbows!! _--_|\ /Karen \ \ _.--._ / v Karen http://members.optushome.com.au/karens

This just came new over Cyndis list: URL http://germanroots.home.att.net/1709palatines/ Title: Palatines from Germany to England in 1709 Description: Lists of Palatines who went to England in 1709 and most of them to America in 1710. Greetings Doris.

Jay wrote ... "My Hesse families, FRANK, LANGS, and SACHS, emigrated in 1852 from Lindenfels, Hesse by the way of Liverpool England to New York. I have not been able to find out how they managed to get to Liverpool. It is varying routes like these that make it interesting." This is the first mention of UK in this discussion, so may I remind researchers that often German migrants found there way to N America via UK ... often because they only had enough money for that first part of the journey, needing to work in UK in order to earn sufficient to fund the rest of the journey. Sailings were usually from Hamburg or Bremen, with arrival at London or Hull. Many then made there way to Liverpool for departure to N America. The labour intensive trade of sugar refining took large numbers of German labourers in both London and Liverpool 1780s-1870s ... many stayed as they could not save enough money. The PRO holds arrival lists approx 1847-69, and some earlier, under references HO2, HO3 and HO5. Jay ... take a look at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarff.html in case the FRANCK / FRANCKE / FRANKE names are yours. Bryan. Bryan Mawer, Wellingborough, UK Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers Database - www.mawer.clara.net

In a message dated 9/3/03 11:40:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bryan@mawer.clara.co.uk writes: This is the first mention of UK in this discussion, so may I remind researchers that often German migrants found there way to N America via UK ... And some stayed in UK for several generations ...as mine did. I have yet to find a WINTERMEYER born in England that was not part of our original Nassau -- Hesse family. Regards, Al Rose Please visit my GEDCOM posted at URL: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=butchrose

I discovered, to my surprise that Galveston was also a big port-of-entry for German immigrants. A. Shoemaker

Actually, prior to the Rev. War the colonies were the domain of the British and they frowned upon any ships that sailed to the new world without first departing from the British Isles. Very few if any ships went to the colonies from anywhere except from England! rfs in omaha, ne On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:38:32 +0100 "Bryan Mawer" <bryan@mawer.clara.co.uk> writes: > >This is the first mention of UK in this discussion, so may I remind >researchers that often German migrants found there way to N America >via UK ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

I think that the immigration route depended upon the circumstances and or the agents that arranged the trip, much like our modern air routings which do not always make sense except for the agent that booked the route. My ggrandfather KERN emigrated to the U.S. in 1872 at the age of 12 from Michelbach, a village now part of Alzenau, Bavaria. It was a prearranged trip paid for by his uncle in Bavaria. In a paper he wrote for my Mother, he told of the following trip. He took the train to Köln (Cologne), a river boat to Hanover, a steam ship to Le Harve, the same ship to New York, and a train to Kansas City, Missouri. He told of people joining the group along the way and of agents meeting them to take them to the hotel when they arrived in a transfer city. He told of getting lost twice along the way, once, when he wandered off from the group that did some site seeing in Köln and again when he accidentally got off the boat at a stop on the way to Hanover. Sounds like a 12 year old boy. The route did not make sense according to the discussion that has been going on, but an agent had arranged that particular route to benefit their costs, same as today. An individual might approach it in a more direct and easy manner, but they still look for the cheapest package. My Hesse families, FRANK, LANGS, and SACHS, emigrated in 1852 from Lindenfels, Hesse by the way of Liverpool England to New York. I have not been able to find out how they managed to get to Liverpool. It is varying routes like these that make it interesting. Jay -- Jay E. Frank

Before the American Civil War, especially 1840-1861, great quantities of cotton were shipped to Europe from New Orleans. Returning ships, rather than dead-heading, carried immigrants. As I understand, most of the cotton carriers went to Le Havre, so that would be the place from which to obtain cheap passage. I also understand that some westbound ships stopped at Baltimore to discharge passengers not going to New Orleans. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks Please see http://www.rollanet.org/~bdoerr/state.htm

I am interested in this port of departure discussion. My great great Grandfather Andreas (Andrew) Kehl from Storndorf a tiny village in the county (Kreis) of Alsfeld and in Hesse Darmstadt and three of his siblings and possibly his father came to the United States but apparently not together but at different times around 1854. I have not found the ship that my great great grandfather came on but someone found for me what appears to be his sister Margaretha (Margaret)age 16 (or was it 18)on a ship's passenger list along with a number of other young women traveling with an older woman. They were listed as being from Hesse Darmstadt and the ship left out of LeHavre, France. I have misplaced my e-mails on this and need to find this reference again. I did post an inquiry one time listing the young women traveling with Margaretha Kehl and asking if they were familiar to anyone...perhaps on this list. At any rate, I raised the question: why LeHavre. I was reminded that Germany is much like Illinois...long and not so wide. Going to France was closer that going up to the northern ports. I used to think that all the people coming out of Germany went to the port of New York or somewhere in that vicinity and spent hours looking for them on microfische and cards in the National Archives...Later found another great great grandfather Folkert W. Gerdes from Ostfreisland in Northern Germany on a passenger list of a ship coming in at the port of New Orleans in Nov 1857 and going on up the river there to Illinois where he settled. The ship that Margaretha Kehl came on from LeHavre also came in at New Orleans. Betty > HESSE-D Digest Volume 03 : Issue 190 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: [HESSE] Port of Antwerp [DmRice@aol.com] > #2 Re: [HESSE] Port of Antwerp [<7iron@gmx.de>] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from HESSE-D, send a message to > HESSE-D-request@rootsweb.com > that contains in the body of the message the command > unsubscribe > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. NEVER hit your > reply button to unsubscribe. > > Web Site for HESSEN, GERMANY, is at > http://members.cox.net/hessen/index.htm > > Many towns in Germany have the same name! Add the 5-digit > zip code in front of the name! Zip codes explained, > http://members.cox.net/hessen/index.htm > > To unsubscribe or to look for old messages, go to: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/HESSE.html > > > > ______________________________

Barbara, out of which country? And which national boundaries? That's what I've tried to explain earlier(obviously without success). I don't know when your ancestors left their home, but most likely there was no such thing like "Germany" at that time. And as Bavaria doesn't have any overseas port, they would have to cross a lot of borders anyway to get to such a port. So it really didn't make much of a difference whether to use Bremen, Le Havre or Antwerp. In many cases, people used the port which was easiest to reach, for example by boat. But you are right in assuming, that in most cases "somebody else" arranged their travel plans. There were sort of agencies doing that for them and these agencies also determined the port of emigration. Heinz

Some of my "Bavarian" or "Rhine Hessen" ancestors who came from what is today Pfalz also chose to go by way of Paris and sail from HAVRE. I too have wondered why they chose to cross national boundaries rather than going "down river". Can anyone explain? Was it cheaper? Were they "recruited" by those who then arranged their travel plans? Was it easier to "sneak" out of the country and avoid miliary service by going through France? Several members of the Feigel family appear to be on two separate passenger lists about a year apart from Havre to New Orleans. Does this mean anything? Barbara Rice FEIGEL ELZER ("Rhennish" Bavaria) Griess Decker Bretz ("Rhennish" Hessen - near Alzey) Biedenkopf (somewhere in Hessen Darmstadt)

Though not from Hesse, my Bavarian great-grandfather lived in northern Bavaria, not far from the Hessian border. He went to the French port of Havre to catch his ship to America. I have no clue why Havre. Denise -- COMPUTERBILD 15/03: Premium-e-mail-Dienste im Test -------------------------------------------------- 1. GMX TopMail - Platz 1 und Testsieger! 2. GMX ProMail - Platz 2 und Preis-Qualitätssieger! 3. Arcor - 4. web.de - 5. T-Online - 6. freenet.de - 7. daybyday - 8. e-Post

My Hesse-Darmstadt family sailed from Bremen to NY in 1860. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rorer" <drorer@fuse.net> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Port of Antwerp > Hamburg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <7iron@gmx.de> > To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] Port of Antwerp > > > > Any suggestions other than Antwerp for a port close to Hesse? > > > > Heinz > > > > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > > Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the > > bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- > > mation is presented there! > > > > >

Any suggestions other than Antwerp for a port close to Hesse? Heinz

Hamburg ----- Original Message ----- From: <7iron@gmx.de> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Port of Antwerp > Any suggestions other than Antwerp for a port close to Hesse? > > Heinz > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the > bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- > mation is presented there! > >

My great grandmother and her mother from Westfalen emigrated through Antwerp traveling with the agent Steinman and Co in late 1857. Does anyone know where the Steinman Co. records can be found? I have been unable to find them listed on various ship list sites and books; also unable to find any mention of Steinman and Co. Jerry Dittman Boonsboro, MD