Hannover could never be mistaken for Hanau. Most likely the parents were born in the kingdom of Hanover which was adjacent to the electorate of Hesse (Hesse-Kassel) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Hanrahan" <lauman48@yahoo.com> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 1:28 PM Subject: [HESSE] MICHEL & DALWIGK of Hesse > I am searching for further information on the > background for the family of my ancestor, Maria > Juliana MICHEL who was born on 22 March 1803 in > (35274) Kirchhain, Hessen Province. Her parents were > Carl MICHEL (born 24 Dec 1771 in Kirchhain) and Anna > Catharina DALWIGK. They were married on 29 Jan 1797 > also in Kirchhain. > > Maria Juliana MICHEL later married Carl Fredrick > STREIBELEIN on 22 August 1826 in Hesse-Kassel, > Germany. In 1850, she moved to St. Louis, Missouri, > USA with her children. The 1880 US Census gives some > clues to her background. Her birthplace in the census > is listed as "Kirchein" while the birthplace of both > of her parents is listed as "Hanover." One clue that > I was given is that Hanover could refer to either > Hannover or Hanau in Hessen. I am assuming that this > is a Huguenot family, but I have no proof for this > connection. > > Any hints about how I could trace my MICHEL and/or > DALWIGK families further back are more than welcome. > > --Pat Hanrahan > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > Looking for old messages? > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/HESSE.html > Search or Browse >

THIS IS NOT GENEALOGY !!! ================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "$60,000,000 INCOME!" <Asrill@ureach.com> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:22 AM Subject: [HESSE] Get 9,000,000 + Subscribers Easily & Make $60,000,000 Doing It! GUARANTEED! > Dear Sir/Madam, > > > Simply scroll down to skip the 'Disclaimer' if you > would like to get more info pertaining to this mail. > > > > ======== DISCLAIMER AND REMOVAL INSTRUCTIONS ======== > > We apologize greatly for any inconvenience this may cause you. > You received this mail either because you or someone else might > have used your email adress to post an ad to one of our partner's > sites {FFA Networks, Classified Sites or Search Engine Submission > Services} or you might have opted in one of their safelist program > and have agreed to send/receive informational mail to or from > members. To stop from receiving this mail again in future simply > reply to: pwcmary@rediffmail.com with a word "remove" in the > subject field. Thank you for your kind considerations. > > ================== THANK YOU ==================== > > > You can get 9,000,000 + subscribers very very > fast easily without having to doing it alone and > make $60,000,000 doing it Guaranteed! This is > not a hype and it isn't sounds too good to be true > either. It's absolutely a real legitimate business > and best of all it's PROVEN! > > This money will be deposited instantly right inside > your own PayPal, StormPay or NetPay account. > There's no other second or third parties control > your money. Of the three only PayPal have not > yet comes up with a FREE PrePaid Master Card > where you can fund/send or withdraw money in > any country hassles-free however PayPal do also > provides a facility where you may submit your own > bank account thus you may fund/send or withdraw > money from any country. > > For your info they're one of the world's most > popular leading payment processor! You may > simply open up an account with them if you > don't have one and and best of all it's FREE! > > This program REALLY WORKS! Don't take my > word for it try it instead if you don't believe me as > I've done it already! I've made $5,000 + the first > month, $8,000 + the second month, $13,000 + > the third month and and hope to hit $20,000 in > this coming my fourth month with this Ultimate > Program (UP)! > > I'll show you how I did that. It's easy as easy > as 1-2-3! You could even make more money > than me if you're really serious and creative! > > Can you afford not to find out how is this possible? > You'll absolutely regret for the rest of your life and > left in the dust back again working from 9 to 5 if > you misses out this greatest opportunity ever! > > So how is this possible you ask? > > simply reply to pwcmary@rediffmail.com with a word 'Send UP Now' > > Believe me and believe it to yourself! > > YOU are going to make that US $60,000,000.00 > ABSOLUTELY! It's impossible not to make money > by using our simplest proven successful program here! > > TRULY, IT REALLY WORKS!! > > > Best of luck and thank you. > > > Yours Truly, > > Asrill & Mary Jones > > > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > Many towns in Germany have the same name! Add the 5-digit > zip code in front of the name! Zip codes explained, > http://members.cox.net/hessen/table.htm > >

I am searching for further information on the background for the family of my ancestor, Maria Juliana MICHEL who was born on 22 March 1803 in (35274) Kirchhain, Hessen Province. Her parents were Carl MICHEL (born 24 Dec 1771 in Kirchhain) and Anna Catharina DALWIGK. They were married on 29 Jan 1797 also in Kirchhain. Maria Juliana MICHEL later married Carl Fredrick STREIBELEIN on 22 August 1826 in Hesse-Kassel, Germany. In 1850, she moved to St. Louis, Missouri, USA with her children. The 1880 US Census gives some clues to her background. Her birthplace in the census is listed as �Kirchein� while the birthplace of both of her parents is listed as �Hanover.� One clue that I was given is that Hanover could refer to either Hannover or Hanau in Hessen. I am assuming that this is a Huguenot family, but I have no proof for this connection. Any hints about how I could trace my MICHEL and/or DALWIGK families further back are more than welcome. --Pat Hanrahan Portland, Oregon, USA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

hello Marge an list , our family is in Blair and Cambria Co , Penns . has been since 1840 ! names is Steffon , then stephen / stevens etc , Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mwhit2632@aol.com> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> snip > > > > ADAM STEFFAN - International Genealogical Index / GE > > Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, > > Hessen > > Phil (and any others with ties to Lampertheim) -- just wondered where your > immigrant lived in USA. I have some connections to some "Lampertheimer's" that > ended up in St.Louis, MO. Knowing all these families are often connected, > just wanted to touch base with you individually --- my connections were in > Carondolet and Central Twps, St.Louis Co -- a few in the city. > > Margie in FL > > Margie > >

Hello Phil, Thank you for your message. The LDS film will be a copy of the original Church register, write to the church by all means but the end result may only be a typed transcript of the original in German. You can make a micro-film copy from the film of the original register at the LDS library. I suggest you e-mail the church for particulars of where the records you require are held as they may be archived elsewhere. Details below: Evangelisch: Lukasgemeinde Lampertheim Römerstraße 94 68623 Lampertheim Tel: 06206/20 91 Fax: 06206/54426 eMail: info@lukasgemeinde-lampertheim.de http://www.lukasgemeinde-lampertheim.de Elizabeth At 10:35 AM 15/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hello , Elizabeth , I wish to really thank you , Of all the replies >Yours has WHAT I really need / wanted , The Address of the Church !!! , I >have this thing about seeing the ORIGINAL RECORD !!!!!! , For what its >worth , My brother has ordered up the set of films for that church , I >suspect we shall have our answers in 3 weeks , Maybe the church will reply >maybe not , BUT I gotta try , Phil

Hello Phil, At 08:25 PM 13/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hello list , How do I go about getting a copy of the birth record shown >below ? Just order Film 1195062 from your nearest LDS Family History Library. When the film arrives check it thoroughly as this film covers christenings from 1810-1834 and you may find more siblings. For the burial check for the source the same way. If you do not understand how to order LDS films ask at your nearest Mormon Library. It is so easy for you to locate film numbers, go back to the IGI entry click on Adam Steffan another menu will appear giving you all the details, Batch No., Dates, Source & Film no. which is underlined, click on the underlined number 1195062, another menu appears giving you details of the Kirchenbuch for Lampertheim. Click on VIEW FILM NOTES in the top right hand corner of the screen and you will see a listing of all the LDS films available for this parish including baptisms, burials, marriages. You can achieve the same results by clicking on "Family History Catalog" right hand side of the home page at < www.familysearch.org > Click on place search, then enter place Lampertheim in the box, top left hand corner of the screen, enter country Germany and a menu appears listing all the LDS films available for Lampertheim. This christening is prior to civil registration so you will only be able to obtain a church record. You can write to the church if you wish but fees may apply. You will only receive the same details as appear on the LDS film of the church register. In most cases the volunteer parish archivist will advise you to check the LDS films first. Some parishes do not respond to family history requests, if their records have been filmed by the LDS. Address for the Church: Ev. Pfarramt Lukasgemeinde 68623 Lampertheim, Römerstr. 94 Germany You are extremely lucky that the LDS have filmed the records you need. Good luck, Elizabeth in Australia > ADAM STEFFAN - International Genealogical Index / GE >Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, >Hessen >ADAM STEFFAN > Male >Event(s): >Birth: >Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, Hessen > >Death: >Burial: >Parents: > Father: GEORG STEFFAN Family > Mother: ANNA MARIA SCHMIDT > > This person is my great grandaddy , Phil Stevens

Hello , Elizabeth , I wish to really thank you , Of all the replies Yours has WHAT I really need / wanted , The Address of the Church !!! , I have this thing about seeing the ORIGINAL RECORD !!!!!! , For what its worth , My brother has ordered up the set of films for that church , I suspect we shall have our answers in 3 weeks , Maybe the church will reply maybe not , BUT I gotta try , Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" <aliens@bigpond.net.au> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: <joephil@nwlink.com> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Need birth record copy Hello Phil, At 08:25 PM 13/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hello list , How do I go about getting a copy of the birth record shown >below ? Just order Film 1195062 from your nearest LDS Family History Library. When the film arrives check it thoroughly as this film covers christenings from 1810-1834 and you may find more siblings. For the burial check for the source the same way. If you do not understand how to order LDS films ask at your nearest Mormon Library. It is so easy for you to locate film numbers, go back to the IGI entry click on Adam Steffan another menu will appear giving you all the details, Batch No., Dates, Source & Film no. which is underlined, click on the underlined number 1195062, another menu appears giving you details of the Kirchenbuch for Lampertheim. Click on VIEW FILM NOTES in the top right hand corner of the screen and you will see a listing of all the LDS films available for this parish including baptisms, burials, marriages. You can achieve the same results by clicking on "Family History Catalog" right hand side of the home page at < www.familysearch.org > Click on place search, then enter place Lampertheim in the box, top left hand corner of the screen, enter country Germany and a menu appears listing all the LDS films available for Lampertheim. This christening is prior to civil registration so you will only be able to obtain a church record. You can write to the church if you wish but fees may apply. You will only receive the same details as appear on the LDS film of the church register. In most cases the volunteer parish archivist will advise you to check the LDS films first. Some parishes do not respond to family history requests, if their records have been filmed by the LDS. Address for the Church: Ev. Pfarramt Lukasgemeinde 68623 Lampertheim, Römerstr. 94 Germany You are extremely lucky that the LDS have filmed the records you need. Good luck, Elizabeth in Australia > ADAM STEFFAN - International Genealogical Index / GE >Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, >Hessen >ADAM STEFFAN > Male >Event(s): >Birth: >Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, Hessen > >Death: >Burial: >Parents: > Father: GEORG STEFFAN Family > Mother: ANNA MARIA SCHMIDT > > This person is my great grandaddy , Phil Stevens

In a message dated 11/14/2003 12:02:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, HESSE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:25:59 -0800 > From: "Phil Stevens" <joephil@nwlink.com> > To: HESSE-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <00ce01c3aa67$9095ddc0$bd9fbbd0@nwlink.com> > Subject: [HESSE] Need birth record copy > > Hello list , How do I go about getting a copy of the birth record shown > below ? > > ADAM STEFFAN - International Genealogical Index / GE > Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, > Hessen Phil (and any others with ties to Lampertheim) -- just wondered where your immigrant lived in USA. I have some connections to some "Lampertheimer's" that ended up in St.Louis, MO. Knowing all these families are often connected, just wanted to touch base with you individually --- my connections were in Carondolet and Central Twps, St.Louis Co -- a few in the city. Margie in FL Margie

Hello list , How do I go about getting a copy of the birth record shown below ? ADAM STEFFAN - International Genealogical Index / GE Gender: Male Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, Hessen ADAM STEFFAN Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Evangelisch, Lampertheim, Starkenburg, Hessen Death: Burial: Parents: Father: GEORG STEFFAN Family Mother: ANNA MARIA SCHMIDT This person is my great grandaddy , Phil Stevens

weitergeleitete Nachricht, Antwort bitte an Jürgen Schweimler schweimler@tiscali.de ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jürgen Schweimler" <schweimler@tiscali.de> To: <ak-nordharz@domeus.de>; "AMF" <AMF@genealogy.net> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 7:52 PM Subject: [AMF] (AMF) Suche nach Friedrich/Frederick Schweimler Hallo Forscherkolleginnen und -kollegen! Hat jemand von Euch eventuell Zugriff auf die Publikationen von Hans Helmuth Rimpau"Die Braunschweiger in Nordamerika, 1776-1783" ? Zwei Vorfahren, Andreas und Philip Schweimler aus Hessen im Herzogtum Braunschweig, gehörten zu den Truppen unter General von Riedesel, die 1776 nach Amerika gingen.Beide gerieten in Gefangenschaft und blieben drüben.Es gibt Hinweise, daß sie sich in Reading, Berks County, PA angesiedelt haben.Einer von ihnen soll einen Sohn Frederick/Friedrich mitgebracht haben, der eine Margaretha ? geheiratet und dem am 07.August 1786 ein Sohn geboren wurde, der am 10.September in der Trinity Lutheran Church auf den Namen Jacob getauft wurde. Andreas und Philip hatten zwar Söhne mit Namen Friedrich, die sind aber 1773 in Hessen bzw.1827 in Hedeper gestorben.Ein weiterer Friedrich ist in dem fraglichen Zeitraum in den KB von Hessen nicht geboren. Wenn er nach 1783 , dem Kriegsende in Amerika geheiratet und 1786 einen Sohn bekommen hat, müßte er ja zwischen 1760 uns 1766 geboren sein. Wer könnte einmal in der obengenannten Publikation nachschauen, ob dort Hinweise auf die genannten Personen zu finden sind, wobei mich natürlich besagter Frederick/Friedrich besonders interessiert. Da er nicht, wie Andreas und Philip, in der Liste der in Amerika gebliebenen Soldaten steht, dürfte er nicht zu der Truppe gehört haben. Ich bin dankbar für jede Information. Gruß Jürgen Dipl.-Ing.Jürgen Schweimler Harnischstr.4 D-41515 Grevenbroich Telefon:02181/6 15 35 eMail:<schweimler@tiscali.de> _______________________________________________ AMF mailing list AMF@genealogy.net http://list2.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/amf

Thank you to all for your help with my translations. Particularly to Carl who provided me with the translation of Eltville for the Latin altavillani. The church records were from Neudorf/Martinsthal and Rauenthal which are villages near Eltville. Is it possible that asperavallani/asperavallenis/asperavalensis might refer to Rauenthal in the same way as altavillani referred to Eltville? Val

As Heinz mentioned, "asperavallani" is Rauenthal (apparently he knows more Latin than me) If you are doing genealogy in the Rheingau area you should take a look to Norbert Michel's website http://home.t-online.de/home/michel-walluf/ He is kind of a guru in Rheingau genealogy. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valda Owen" <kenowen@networksmm.com.au> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 7:58 AM Subject: [HESSE] latin translation > Thank you to all for your help with my translations. Particularly to Carl who provided me with the translation of Eltville for the Latin altavillani. The church records were from Neudorf/Martinsthal and Rauenthal which are villages near Eltville. Is it possible that asperavallani/asperavallenis/asperavalensis might refer to Rauenthal in the same way as altavillani referred to Eltville? > > Val > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > Going on Vacation? Longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/HESSE.html > to unsubscribe > >

<<Is it possible that asperavallani/asperavallenis/asperavalensis might refer to Rauenthal in the same way as altavillani referred to Eltville?>> Not only possible, but sure. asper = rauh = rough vallis = Tal = valley Heinz

Auswanderkartei(en) gesucht - Leute aus Felsberg und Neukirchen in Kurhessen, die 1869 in London verheiraten. I am looking for any Auswandererkartei(en) or other information about the date when the following couple, (1) Alfred Wilhelm Ludwig Dietz and (2) Maria Catharine Fuchs set out for England, and about their journey. They married in London (in Pentonville Church) on 18 May 1869. They left Germany between 1861 and (at the latest) 1869. They brought with them a Prussian coin dated 1861 and two pictures of Felsberg and Altenberg taken from a book published at about that time. Their parents all lived in Neukirchen (near Schwalmstadt-Treysa) and the families would have known each other. Alfred's brother Hermann was a chemist (Apotheke) who left Felsberg to go to Goerlitz; he then went to Krefeld where he died in 1925. We have the names of their brothers and sisters, etc / usw. Here are the details: (1) Alfred Wilhelm Ludwig Dietz - born: 30 July 1845 in Felsberg, Hesse; died: 21 November 1921 in Southfields, Wandsworth, London (son of ....Friedrich Wilhelm Dietz, born: 27 October 1803 in Neukirchen, Hesse; died: 1 May 1884 in Felsberg, Hesse where he was the local doctor (Arzt) and Gertrude Fredericke Elisabeth Mergell, daughter of Pastor (Pfr.) C L Mergell, born: 28 September 1816 in Felsberg, Hesse; married: 31 January 1841 in Felsberg, Hesse died: 27 May 1850 in Felsberg, Hesse) (2) Maria Catharine Fuchs - born: 3 April 1844 in Neukirchen, Hesse; died: 4 April 1913 in London (daughter of Johann Heinrich Fuchs ,born: 24 June 1818 in Neukirchen, Hesse; died: 9 February 1845 in Neukirchen, Hesse .. and Anna Margaretha Leisler b: 27 March 1820 in Neukirchen, Hesse; married: 3 December 1843 in Neukirchen, Hesse; died: ?) Alfred Wilhelm Ludwig Dietz is a descendent of Pastor (Pfr.) Reinhart Hefentraeger, born 1519, (Evangelisch Pfr. in Naumburg near Fritzlar, Wildungen and Kassel Unterneustadt), brother of the Waldeck Reformer (Pfr.) Jonas Hefentraeger (Trygophorus) who was born in Fritzlar in 1497; ordained (ordiniert Priester) in 1520 and married in 1523 in Geismar or Fritzlar. Later he was the first Evangelisch Pfr. in Waldeck and Pfr.-Superintendent in Wildungen. Jo Eden, Buckinghamshire, England - descendent of the above people.

----- Original Message ----- From: <Antiquariu@aol.com> To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Hessian Soldiers > In a message dated 11/6/2003 11:39:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > drorer@fuse.net writes: > > > > The story that the German troops were unwilling conscripts ready to desert > > at the first > > opportunity is a myth. These were professional soldiers, whose first loyalty > > was to their > > regiment and their sovereign. At the conclusion they could expect to be > > returned to their > > homes and families, in Germany. Indeed the German troops could not > > understand why the > > Americans were revolting against their lawful sovereign when they lived so > > pleasantly and > > free of restrictions. The same stories are not told about the French troops > > which fought > > in America, which also included German regiments in their ranks. > > > > > Hmmm... Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. As a Waldecker with a > number of ancestors who fought with the 3rd Waldeck, I am of the opinion that > the scholarship in this area is somewhat lacking. To this date, villages > throughout Waldeck list in their village and parish histories the conscription > campaigns during which the 'lange Jungs' were press-ganged. This was, to be > fair, not just a Waldecker measure, but also done by the British with the Scots > and the Irish. I would venture to say that the only professional soldiers one > would find in the three Waldeck regiments were von Dalwigk and a few other > officers. One must recall that the Leibeigenschaft was still in force throughout > Hessen, and that the notion of a professional standing army was still in the > process of development. I do appreciate your take on the numbers -- every > source, from the HETRINA archives on down -- has different figures. > > Werner Saemmler Hindrichs > Director of Operations > ALS, Inc > 1-540-592-7215 > Fax: 1-703-832-0692 > Thee hath spake upon that which thou ill knoweth: The standing army in Hesse-Kassel was formed under Landgrave Charles I (reigned 1670-1730) who sent a force of 1600 men to Christian V of Denmark in 1677. The first of many such contracts with various rulers. The standing army in England was formed by Cromwell, after 1660 when he created the New Model Army. Reference: "Indentured to Liberty, Peasant Life and the Hessian Military State, 1688-1815 by Peter K. Tayler, Cornell University Press "The Hessian Mercenary State," by Charles W. Ingrao, Cambridge University Press Go informe thy self such that when thou desireth to converse again thee canst speak from authority. And when thou desireth to converse upon this matter again pray take thy self to soc.history.war.misc where thou will findeth many and diverse persons who are much willing to engage in such discourse. Your obedient servant David Rorer

Regarding the recent discussion of Hessians in the American Revolution, just wanted to make you aware that there is a mailing list devoted specifically to this topic, and some really very knowledgeable folks participate in that list. You can join digest mailing list through: AMREV-HESSIANS-D-request@rootsweb.com The archives are at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L/ Regards, Kathleen Schilling 6th great grandniece of Johann Heinrich Daut(h) a Hessian who returned to Germany after the Revolutionary War _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

Hi Listers This may interest someone whose ancestor travelled from Bremen but no passenger list available. I have been looking at an LDS film of old passport applications lodged at Hamburg in 1856 and noted the following. .....Jean Pierre Nicolas MARTIN ... age 47 .... destination England via Bremen .... application dated 10 October 1856. Sylvia - Melbourne

In a message dated 11/6/2003 11:39:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, drorer@fuse.net writes: > The story that the German troops were unwilling conscripts ready to desert > at the first > opportunity is a myth. These were professional soldiers, whose first loyalty > was to their > regiment and their sovereign. At the conclusion they could expect to be > returned to their > homes and families, in Germany. Indeed the German troops could not > understand why the > Americans were revolting against their lawful sovereign when they lived so > pleasantly and > free of restrictions. The same stories are not told about the French troops > which fought > in America, which also included German regiments in their ranks. > Hmmm... Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. As a Waldecker with a number of ancestors who fought with the 3rd Waldeck, I am of the opinion that the scholarship in this area is somewhat lacking. To this date, villages throughout Waldeck list in their village and parish histories the conscription campaigns during which the 'lange Jungs' were press-ganged. This was, to be fair, not just a Waldecker measure, but also done by the British with the Scots and the Irish. I would venture to say that the only professional soldiers one would find in the three Waldeck regiments were von Dalwigk and a few other officers. One must recall that the Leibeigenschaft was still in force throughout Hessen, and that the notion of a professional standing army was still in the process of development. I do appreciate your take on the numbers -- every source, from the HETRINA archives on down -- has different figures. Werner Saemmler Hindrichs Director of Operations ALS, Inc 1-540-592-7215 Fax: 1-703-832-0692

In a message dated 11/6/2003 11:39:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, drorer@fuse.net writes: > The story that the German troops were unwilling conscripts ready to desert > at the first > opportunity is a myth. These were professional soldiers, whose first loyalty > was to their > regiment and their sovereign. At the conclusion they could expect to be > returned to their > homes and families, in Germany. Indeed the German troops could not > understand why the > Americans were revolting against their lawful sovereign when they lived so > pleasantly and > free of restrictions. The same stories are not told about the French troops > which fought > in America, which also included German regiments in their ranks. > Hmmm... Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. As a Waldecker with a number of ancestors who fought with the 3rd Waldeck, I am of the opinion that the scholarship in this area is somewhat lacking. To this date, villages throughout Waldeck list in their village and parish histories the conscription campaigns during which the 'lange Jungs' were press-ganged. This was, to be fair, not just a Waldecker measure, but also done by the British with the Scots and the Irish. I would venture to say that the only professional soldiers one would find in the three Waldeck regiments were von Dalwigk and a few other officers. One must recall that the Leibeigenschaft was still in force throughout Hessen, and that the notion of a professional standing army was still in the process of development. I do appreciate your take on the numbers -- every source, from the HETRINA archives on down -- has different figures. Werner Saemmler Hindrichs Director of Operations ALS, Inc 1-540-592-7215 Fax: 1-703-832-0692

> --- Original Message ----- > From: <Antiquariu@aol.com> > To: <HESSE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:44 AM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] Hessian Soldiers > > > > More material from Burgoyne's book, confirmed by my memory as well, which > > seems to debunk that statement that these were very loyal folks with a low > > desertion rate. Fact is, many of them deserted. Then perhaps some quotes from Edward J. Lowell "The Hessians and the other German Auxiliaries of Great Britain in the Revolutionary War" are in order. From Chapter XXIV the conclusion to this book Begin quotes "The force of German mercenaries which England maintained in America from 1776 to 1783 averaged not very far from twenty thousand men. In the course of that time about thirty thousand soldiers were brought over, and seventeen thousand three hundred and thirteen returned to Germany when the war was ended" It has sometimes been said that the German soldiers deserted in great numbers in America. This assertion is only partially borne out by facts. At the time when the first Hessians arrived at Staten Island, Congress caused papers to be distributed among them, encouraging them to desert.........These promises were not entirely without result. In August, 1778, two Hessian lieutenants came to Washington's camp, and held out hopes that other officers would follow them. These hopes were illusory for the most part. Even among the privates the desertion was less than might have been expected. It was proportionally large among the prisoners of war. The army that surrendered at Saratoga in October, 1777, numbered five thousand seven hundred and ninety-one men, of whom two thousand four hundred and thirty-one were Germans. From this army six hundred and fifty-five Englishmen and one hundred and sixty Germans had deserted by the 1st of April, 1778. Some of the desertion among the prisoners was only apparent. The German captives sometimes left the dreary huts in which they were confined and wandered away, in hopes of reaching New York, or one of the British armies. If it be true, as the German writers assert, and as seems to be the case, that the German soldiers deserted less than the English in this war, the cause is not far to seek. The troops were employed for the most part in neighborhoods where the inhabitants could speak no German. Moreover, the "Hessians," as the auxiliaries were indiscriminately called, were objects of peculiar abhorrence to the natives. There name might probably be sometimes heard as a term of reproach to this day in country districts. The English deserted became indistinguishable from the moment when he took off his red coat. The German could speak no word that did not betray him. We have seen that seventeen thousand three hundred and thirteen Germans or about fifty-eight percent of those who came over as mercenaries, returned safely to Europe. Of the twelve thousand five hundred and fifty-four that remained, a small proportion had been killed in battle or had died of their wounds, many had died of sickness, many had deserted, some had remained in America, after piece was concluded, with the consent of the authorities. Hessian officers and privates received grants of land in Nova Scotia, and the Duke of Brunswick inhumanely ordered that not only soldiers guilty of crimes and disorderly conduct, but those who were bodily unfit for military duty, should be left in Canada." End quotes Of necessity this is not the entire text of the conclusion. Those interested in reading more may want to obtain the book which is published by Corner House Historical Publications, Gansevoort, New York and is available in paperback. This book is a reproduction of the original book which was published in1884. The author traveled to Germany and read the original accounts of every major and many minor engagement that occurred during the war. The story that the German troops were unwilling conscripts ready to desert at the first opportunity is a myth. These were professional soldiers, whose first loyalty was to their regiment and their sovereign. At the conclusion they could expect to be returned to their homes and families, in Germany. Indeed the German troops could not understand why the Americans were revolting against their lawful sovereign when they lived so pleasantly and free of restrictions. The same stories are not told about the French troops which fought in America, which also included German regiments in their ranks. In the late nineteenth century, the Germans were still perceived as the "Terrible Hessians"; whole regiments of mercenaries who were brought to America to kill, plunder and ruin. The roots of these falsehoods were imbedded in rumor and nourished by jealousy and discontent. You-all do our ancestors no good service by perpetrating these falsehoods. David Rorer