(This message has also been posted to the ROTH mailing list.) In 1854 my great grandfather Valentine ROTH emigrated from Mühlheim in Hesse-Darmstadt to Michigan with his parents George and Christina and his siblings Philip, Christina and Adam Joseph. I recently found the ship's record for these people, showing that they arrived in New York from London on the ship Victoria on 22 December 1854. I also found a surprise on that record - three other people, Franz, Elizabetha and Casper J. ROTH, who arrived on the same ship and are also listed as children of George and Christina. (I am not sure that is actually the relationship though, especially in Casper's case since he is listed out of order by age.) Since I know nothing about these people I would like to hear from anyone who has tracked people of these names back to Hesse-Darmstadt and thinks they might have a match to my new found relatives. The ages given in 1854 were: Franz 25, Elizabetha 23, Casper 17. Frances Roth

Occupations.....Burstenbinder Rathsverwandther Beckermeister Thank you, Barbara

I think this is an occupation but not sure....translation for Hafnermeister Thank you, Barbara

Was it common for a person to be returned to Germany for burial in the mid 1860's? Wouldn't this cost some serious money in those days? -- Thanks a bunch, Tami Johnston-Parise New Orleans, LA Researching: JOHNSTON/HOFFMANN/STEINDBINDER/WEISHEIMER/SPROUL/ KEISEL/SHERWOOD/HOERNER/ZWEIFEL/DOCLAR/USNER/ FERNANDEZ/MCDERMOTT

Hi, Carol-Anne, Try this book (I got a look at it through my local library's Interlibrary Loan program): _The German Churches of Metropolitan New York: A Research Guide_ by Richard Haberstroh, C. G., published by the New York Genealogical & Biographical Society, NY, 2000. You will find it very interesting, as it describes the settlement areas and provides guidance for figuring out which church your ancestors might have attended given their addresses and the time period. Also, there is a database you can search at Ancestry.com (if you are not a private subscriber, you might be able to access it at your local library or Mormon LDS Family History Center): "New York City, Lutheran Church Records, 1834-1854." Against all odds, I found my gggrandparents listed there, including their birthyears and birthplaces in Germany, and marriage date in NYC. Amazing! Good luck, Michelle Stone in Georgia, USA mefisher@bellsouth.net CAENH@aol.com wrote: > If a person was baptized and confirmed in the Evangelische Kirke in Hesse > Darmstadt, what denomination would he likely become a member of in the US? I am > trying to locate a marriage in New York City in 1853 for this person and don't > know whether to check Lutheran churches or not. I have pretty much ruled out > Baptist and Methodist churches. I am looking at Reformed churches. Some > thirty years later in another part of New York State he joined the Congregational > Church. Any suggestions greatly appreciated, as there are too many churches > in NYC to consider. Anyone familiar with NYC churches in the 1850s who might > have suggestions for churches on the Lower East Side, I'd love to hear from > you. Thanks. > > Carol-Anne Eldridge, Ed D > caenh@aol.com > > > ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== > Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the > bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- > mation is presented there! > >

Re: Hessian Church membership in the US My Hessian ancestors affillliated with the Evangelische Gemeinschaft, a German Methodist church which later became the Evangelical Association, then the United Evangelical Church. This group then formed the Evangelical United Brethren Church which united with the Methodist church in the 1960s to form the United Methodist church. A smaller group from that organization is the Evangelical Congregational church, mostly in Pennsylvania. Alternatively, they could have joined any of the German Lutheran churches, depending on what they found in the area. I believe that the German Lutheran group which became a part of the Evangelical and Reformed church was the German Evangelical Synod of North America. Neil Wolf

Hi Lists: I'm gonna give this another try. I am researching the surnames: Hoffman & Steinbinder Henry Herman Hoffman b. 2 Feb. 1797 in Donberg, Germany d. May 1866 in New Orleans, LA married in September 1820 to Hannah Frederika Steinbinder b. 3 February 1800 in Germany d. November 1842 in Plaquemines Parish, LA. They had at least 9 children. 5 of whom are known, ALL born in Hoppen, Germany. Hannah Frederika b. 1821 d. 1896 Charles Henry (Karl Heinrich??) b. 1829 d. 1907 Christian Frederic b. 1832 Hannah Carolyn b. 1834 d. 1866 Hannah Sophie b. 1837 d. 1902 -- Thanks a bunch, Tami Johnston-Parise New Orleans, LA Researching: JOHNSTON/HOFFMANN/STEINDBINDER/WEISHEIMER/SPROUL/ KEISEL/SHERWOOD/HOERNER/ZWEIFEL/DOCLAR/USNER/ FERNANDEZ/MCDERMOTT

Regarding the church in the USA a person confirmed in the Evangelische Kirke in Hesse Darmstadt would most likely join: My husband's grandmother was confirmed in that church in Hesse Darmstadt. When she arrived in Chicago Illinois in the late 1890s she joined a church that later became the Evangelical & Reformed Church which later merged with the Congregational Church to become United Church of Christ. Both my husband and I were confirmed in the E & R Church. Our children were baptized in the same church, except that it was now United Church of Christ. When we were children the main service was in English, but there was an earlier service in German. No German today. I think any immigrant from Germany would have been likely to connect with a church where German was spoken, whether E & R, or Lutheran. Here in Chicago we had many churches that began as foreign language churches. Now many are closing or merging with other churches of the same denomination. Probably due to all the Germans, Danes, Swedes and Norwegians having married outside their ethnicity and now speaking English. If you can find churches in your area that were German speaking, you might find your family. Lois Mack Schill

If a person was baptized and confirmed in the Evangelische Kirke in Hesse Darmstadt, what denomination would he likely become a member of in the US? I am trying to locate a marriage in New York City in 1853 for this person and don't know whether to check Lutheran churches or not. I have pretty much ruled out Baptist and Methodist churches. I am looking at Reformed churches. Some thirty years later in another part of New York State he joined the Congregational Church. Any suggestions greatly appreciated, as there are too many churches in NYC to consider. Anyone familiar with NYC churches in the 1850s who might have suggestions for churches on the Lower East Side, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks. Carol-Anne Eldridge, Ed D caenh@aol.com

I found the records microfilmed in the Allen County Public Library in Fort Wayne Indiana, the same county my ancestors settled in in 1853. The Library has the entire collection of the Fort Wayne-South Bend Diocese from the first Catholic records in French up to 1930 or so to protect the privacy of living people. Incidently, I happen to live in Fort Wayne. I have had the help of a professional researcher experienced with Catholic Records on suggestions where to look in othe parishes, found the marriage in another parish because their local parish was not established when the couple were married, and have looked at every other parish in existence when the children were born. I have all but two. The only other thing I can think of is one of the itenerant Priest's books were not in the collection, or the baptisms were not recorded by the resident priest as should have been. Carol Byers <cabyers@frontiernet.net> wrote: Hi, First, they may have been recorded in a separate book. Next, they may have been removed from the book. Also, I'd like to know where and how you found these books? That might be a clue? Carol Elk Grove, CA -----Original Message----- From: Elena Vaccaro [mailto:earthandicecousins@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 3:28 PM To: HESSE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] confirmations circa 1684-1699 I have found this in Church Registers in the US. One of the later Priests did his best to fill in the missing records, but missed some of my family, especially the burials I needed. anitagriffith@canada.com wrote:Hi - in my research, I've found 2 separate parish registers that are missing confirmations completely for the years about 1684-1699. There is an entry at the top of the page for 1684 and the next entry on the page is 1699. The villages are Niedergem�nden and Burg-gem�nden. Can anyone suggest a reason? There are ministers in the village at this time and all other services are performed. Thanks, Anita ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- mation is presented there! In US, Palentine, and Alsace-Lorriane: Hergenroether/Harkenrider, Holzinger, Kinder, Crum, Geeting/Guthing, Sonner/Sanner, Eberly, Ambrose, Mattias/Matthews In US: Eddingfield, Byrd, , Besser, Correll/Gorell, Douglass, Vail, Cartwright, McCorkle, Bevins, Ruddle, Cailey, Rodeheffer - ------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ______________________________ In US, Palentine, and Alsace-Lorriane: Hergenroether/Harkenrider, Holzinger, Kinder, Crum, Geeting/Guthing, Sonner/Sanner, Eberly, Ambrose, Mattias/Matthews In US: Eddingfield, Byrd, , Besser, Correll/Gorell, Douglass, Vail, Cartwright, McCorkle, Bevins, Ruddle, Cailey, Rodeheffer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

Hi, First, they may have been recorded in a separate book. Next, they may have been removed from the book. Also, I'd like to know where and how you found these books? That might be a clue? Carol Elk Grove, CA -----Original Message----- From: Elena Vaccaro [mailto:earthandicecousins@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 3:28 PM To: HESSE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSE] confirmations circa 1684-1699 I have found this in Church Registers in the US. One of the later Priests did his best to fill in the missing records, but missed some of my family, especially the burials I needed. anitagriffith@canada.com wrote:Hi - in my research, I've found 2 separate parish registers that are missing confirmations completely for the years about 1684-1699. There is an entry at the top of the page for 1684 and the next entry on the page is 1699. The villages are Niedergemünden and Burg-gemünden. Can anyone suggest a reason? There are ministers in the village at this time and all other services are performed. Thanks, Anita ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- mation is presented there! In US, Palentine, and Alsace-Lorriane: Hergenroether/Harkenrider, Holzinger, Kinder, Crum, Geeting/Guthing, Sonner/Sanner, Eberly, Ambrose, Mattias/Matthews In US: Eddingfield, Byrd, , Besser, Correll/Gorell, Douglass, Vail, Cartwright, McCorkle, Bevins, Ruddle, Cailey, Rodeheffer - ------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ______________________________

Hi: My previous research has been near Trier and it has lead me to Hesse. I'm hoping someone on this list can help. I looking for information on the surname of RENN, the given names are: Casper and Theodor. The information I have is they were from Schmitten. If anyone can help it would be appreciated. I have no information on Casper except that he was the father of Theodor and that Theodor was probably born somewhere in the mid 1700's. Not much information to go on I know, but that is all I have. Thanks, Phyllis

I have found this in Church Registers in the US. One of the later Priests did his best to fill in the missing records, but missed some of my family, especially the burials I needed. anitagriffith@canada.com wrote:Hi - in my research, I've found 2 separate parish registers that are missing confirmations completely for the years about 1684-1699. There is an entry at the top of the page for 1684 and the next entry on the page is 1699. The villages are Niedergem�nden and Burg-gem�nden. Can anyone suggest a reason? There are ministers in the village at this time and all other services are performed. Thanks, Anita ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- mation is presented there! In US, Palentine, and Alsace-Lorriane: Hergenroether/Harkenrider, Holzinger, Kinder, Crum, Geeting/Guthing, Sonner/Sanner, Eberly, Ambrose, Mattias/Matthews In US: Eddingfield, Byrd, , Besser, Correll/Gorell, Douglass, Vail, Cartwright, McCorkle, Bevins, Ruddle, Cailey, Rodeheffer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

--=======68B97D09======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-52DD3C41; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Ed, 27308 Armsen (Sachen) is eight km. from Verden, today in Niedersashen. Go to www.google.de type in armsen.de which will connect you to the home page for Kirchlinteln (in German) which is the seems to be the where the nearest church and village is located. Hope this helps, Elizabeth At 12:26 PM 29/09/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Checked web for Armensaxen/Armensachsen but no luck in finding where it is >located. > >Ed > >http://members.tripod.com/~Silvie/Schilling.html --=======68B97D09=======--

Checked web for Armensaxen/Armensachsen but no luck in finding where it is located. Ed http://members.tripod.com/~Silvie/Schilling.html

Hi all- I'd love to swap info with others researching these surnames HESSE > NY, PA GIESEMAN, GEESAMAN HECK M Thompson ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!

Confirmations are performed by the Bishop. Maybe there was some "lack of Bishop problem". ----- Original Message ----- From: anitagriffith@canada.com To: HESSE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: [HESSE] confirmations circa 1684-1699 Hi - in my research, I've found 2 separate parish registers that are missing confirmations completely for the years about 1684-1699. There is an entry at the top of the page for 1684 and the next entry on the page is 1699. The villages are Niedergemünden and Burg-gemünden. Can anyone suggest a reason? There are ministers in the village at this time and all other services are performed. Thanks, Anita ==== HESSE Mailing List ==== Don't overlook the Hesse mailing list taglines at the bottom of each list E-Mail you receive. Valuable infor- mation is presented there!

Here is the URL to check to see what is avaliable at the above http://www.ekkw.de/archiv The E-Mail address if you know what you are looking for you can write and ask what it would cost to send it. archiv@ekkw.de In the things that I read while I was there the charge to look I believe was $15.00 per half hour and that is also a minimum. There is a charge for photocopy and mail. Be aware, that there is a difference in exchange rate for US currency and that of Europe. The use the Euro. While I was there, the exhange rate varies from $67.50 to $72.50 in Euro per $100.00 of US Currency. A credit card is probably better because of the exchange rate changes every day. Never take Cashiers checks. The bank charges $17.50 to cash them whether or not is $50. american dollars or $1,000.00 american dollars also then applies the difference in the exchange. For $800.00 in american Express Travlers checks, I received $607.00 in Euro dollars. I lost almost $200.00 and you have to be prepared for that. Most countries England, France, Spain, Italy, Austria and Germany use the same Euro so it works all over. Other countries have not been put on the Euro yet, Like Poland and the Check Republic, and Romania, to name a few. their exchange rates different. It will take another coupe of years until that happens. When I told about the trip, I have been doing genealogy since 1987 and actually prior to that but that is when I stopped working and gave it more time. Prior to my going to Germany, in 1990, I found that my gr gr grandfather was a Hessian Soldier while researching in person in Pennsylvania. Anther cousin, did a home edition of a book, and showed the incorrect ancestor, and I spent a week in PA/, trying to get information on him. then I discovered the correct when I went to Philadelphia, and the church in the other town told me the child died at about age 2. Then in 2001, a friend went to Germany that carries the same surname, and did part of my research back to about 1730's, and sent it to me. That is when I knew I wanted to go over and do my own, and see the country. I have friends that have been there and they told me that they would love to live there it is the most beautiful country in the world. I Agree. I would dlove to live there. I am now looking for inexpensive flights so I can go back and just travel around by train and see more of the country. I did not state all of the facts when I wrote the first message, but a cousin meet me at the airport the sam AM that I arrived and traveled with me and also working on the records,and double checking what I already had. I already had a photo of his christening record, which showed his father and mother and then some of his brothers and sisters and the parents marriage records, So, it is not to just walk in and say I want to see this. The records are not easy to read, and copies of the microfiche can get expensive if you have say 25 of them. it could cost up to $70.00 plus a fee for each day and person that is in there to do research. Some of you might want to contact Don Watson at dwats@cox.net He use to have a wonderful website, and he has helped me since 1997, to work on my research. He knows more about Germany that I every will. I stil feel free to write and ask him about things now. Betty

Hi - in my research, I've found 2 separate parish registers that are missing confirmations completely for the years about 1684-1699. There is an entry at the top of the page for 1684 and the next entry on the page is 1699. The villages are Niedergemünden and Burg-gemünden. Can anyone suggest a reason? There are ministers in the village at this time and all other services are performed. Thanks, Anita

I have researched my famly for many years, and just recently returned from four weeks in Germany and surrounding countries. Since 1995, I knew where I needed to obtain information, but due to things between the LDS (Morman Church) and the German Archives, We cannot obtain them except one record at a time at a cost of almost $100.00. They refuse to let the LDS copy their records due to to their baptising them into the LDS faith. The only way to obtain the information is have someone do it for you. It is a shame that they could not be made avaliable to us. The Evangelical state Archives in Hessen is the only way to find the old church records. I wished for years read everything that I could and now I have what I need and want. I went to Germany and got it. The state Church Archives, is hard t find. I went in circles for 30 minutes and could not find it, finally got a map from a service station and found dead end streets and some not wide enough but for one car and they do park cars on the sidewalk also. Many streets are still cobblestone. I will contact Rootsweb, and write a story about my research and I think they will put it in the Newsletter that arrives every week. I love the newsletter, because it tells of other people's finds and can help us do our own research at times. I have read it for eight years. We all want to research our families both unknown and the famous. The famous people have the money to have someone do their research and the poor people sit and wish. Well after my Husbands death last year I could not get away, to do my research. In May of this year I made arrangements to fly to Hessen, Frankfurt, Germany and drive to Kassel and found family and had a wonderful family reunion, and found records back to 1654. Things that I had wished for for the past 14 years, and knew that they had to be there. My grgr grandfather was a Hessian Soldier and I found him in the book Hetrina, there are two volums and are in alphibical order and then miscellaneous misses at the end of each. Many people who have family that arrived in USA in 1775 to 1790 could be Hessians who deserted from the troups. England recrited the King of Germany to conscript these young men and send them to help fight for the rights of England. If you know history, you will have already known this. I loved the small villages so much and the look of Germany that I will be returning there in August, September and part of October of 2005. I am a 73 year widow, and have done research for many years. I am not a professional, but am well versed on Genealogy, lectured and taught it, and started a group that is now a genealogical society. If you do not belong to a society, please do. you can learn so much from others and enhance your own research. I have known since 1990 who my family was in Germany and basically where they originated from. I now have records that will take me a long time to get into my computer, and family that will eventually come to the United States to Visit, and see what we look like and return home to their beautiful country. Betty