Forgot to ask where they emigrated to. Lots of Bauers in our area and the other name is usually written as Kraunich JK TW Scott wrote: > Fellow Hesse researchers, > > I have what I think is a birth record for Anna Maria Bauer, born of Johannes Bauer and Appolonia Kranich. I can make out the date okay, and of course the names. Does anyone see anything else of obvious value that I can't don't understand?(which is most of it) > > Does anyone know what the 1) and 2) and writing next to them is concerning? > > Here is a link to the images, named Bauer 1, 2 and 3. I enlarged the top, middle and bottom of the document for better viewing. > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/c/o/Thomas-W-Scott/ > > Thanks for the help. > Regards, > TW Scott > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Psychology School > Be a professional. Click here to earn a psychology degree. > http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4wynUQcp5XrjH08wjZa3rNK9joL7dQeHRwFMvxGNzgUZfAopRLmY/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Can't help you with the German but, you might want to redo the images to give more levels of grey scale. You seem to have gone to mostly black & white with very few levels. This makes it difficult for most people to discern the actual image. With the additional grey scale levels, it helps to fill in some of the missing parts which get lost in this type of format JK TW Scott wrote: > Fellow Hesse researchers, > > I have what I think is a birth record for Anna Maria Bauer, born of Johannes Bauer and Appolonia Kranich. I can make out the date okay, and of course the names. Does anyone see anything else of obvious value that I can't don't understand?(which is most of it) > > Does anyone know what the 1) and 2) and writing next to them is concerning? > > Here is a link to the images, named Bauer 1, 2 and 3. I enlarged the top, middle and bottom of the document for better viewing. > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/c/o/Thomas-W-Scott/ > > Thanks for the help. > Regards, > TW Scott > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Psychology School > Be a professional. Click here to earn a psychology degree. > http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4wynUQcp5XrjH08wjZa3rNK9joL7dQeHRwFMvxGNzgUZfAopRLmY/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fellow Hesse researchers, I have what I think is a birth record for Anna Maria Bauer, born of Johannes Bauer and Appolonia Kranich. I can make out the date okay, and of course the names. Does anyone see anything else of obvious value that I can't don't understand?(which is most of it) Does anyone know what the 1) and 2) and writing next to them is concerning? Here is a link to the images, named Bauer 1, 2 and 3. I enlarged the top, middle and bottom of the document for better viewing. http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/c/o/Thomas-W-Scott/ Thanks for the help. Regards, TW Scott ------------------------------------------------------------ Psychology School Be a professional. Click here to earn a psychology degree. http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g4wynUQcp5XrjH08wjZa3rNK9joL7dQeHRwFMvxGNzgUZfAopRLmY/

My 2nd great grandfather, Johan Rapp (1819 Abenheim), immigrated?to the US in 1851.??In Germany?he was a tailor, but a farmer upon settling in?the US. His father is Valentine Rapp (1781 Abenheim) and mother Catherine Trunk (1776 Abenheim).??Valentine's father is Philip Rapp and his mother is?Eva.? Now?I suppose they could have been born?there too, but I could find no earlier records to search.??I guess that's two generations I'm aware of in Abenheim.? Are there any earlier records available for this area that I may search.? I guess that would be?Dalberg Family records? Sure hopes this?helps you help me.? Thanks again for your kind response. Twila -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp For how long have they stayed in Abenheim? How many generations? When did they emigrate to the U.S.? There is far to little information to really give you any meaningful advice. Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 18:08:48 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp I understand.? Thank you. I wonder if anyone has any direction for me in my Rapp search.? I've researched then from the US back to Abenheim with the help of an old family letter that took me to?the church records in Abenheim, but?there is no mention in those records where they?were before then 1796.? Was there a pattern of migration at this time?? Should I look in neighboring towns?? Is there?another resource for?this time period?? Any direction would help.? Thanks again. Twila -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:56 am Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Possible. You need to confirm this for your specific case in searching backwards for common ancestors. Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 16:36:47 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever been the same?? I have Rapps from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and would love to know where they migrated to there from. Twila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but that could be an isolated incident. Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To u nsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ? ? ? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks.? I will look for that as I continue to pursue this line.? So far from the US to Abenheim it has clearly been "RAPP".? I just?wondered about the?possibility that it may have evolved from "RUPP".? I will of course trace them generation to generation keeping that in mind.? Valentine Rapp is the earliest ancestor on that line so far, and as you can see below his father is Philip and mother Eva, but there are no earlier films showing their marriage or births.? Now that I've said that I think I'm going to take another look.? It's been a long time since I've looked at that film.? Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany Thanks for your response, and that is a very interesting coincidence. Twila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:04 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp A very badly written u or a could be interpreted as the other. Or an illegible page may lead to confusion. Even worse is if the a has an umlaut over it. What is the source of your data on the placename? My Rupps are from Assenheim, until you go back far enough, in which case I haven't yet figured out exactly where they came from, although I have clues. I believe I also have seen Rapps in Assenheim, and/or in other places in the German states. So unless you have actual source documents it is hard to say what your ancestors' names were, and even then the person entering the record may have gotten it wrong. Consider I have about 5000 records on my family, and if only 1 out 500 has a mistake in the name that would be 10 records with an incorrect name. the percentage is considerably higher than that, at least for the ones I can prove with certainty. the best proof is to gather as many sources as you can on a person, and rule out other explanations. I have persons who have gone through three or four different spellings of their lastname over their life (but most of them were French). Strange coincidence Abenheim vs. Assenheim. I have Rupps in Assenheim beginning in the late 1600s, and on in to the 1800s at least. But, I'm just beginning to work that line. On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:36 am, [email protected] wrote: > I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever > been the same?? I have Rapps from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and > would love to know where they migrated to there from. > > Twila > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am > Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames > > > > Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least > one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but > that could be an isolated incident. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the information.? I check and was a little off on my estimation of his birth, it actually is: Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Abenheim Parish Records, Film number 0949093 which is Roll 2, Page 65, 5th entry from the bottom of the page shows Eva and the mother and Philip Rapp as father of Valentine Rapp, baptized 3 june 1781 in Abenheim, Hessen-Darmstadt, Germany What would be correct to record his birth if not?? Would it be Abenheim, Darlberg, Germany? -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". Abenheim first became part of?the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonian time and the congress of?Vienna in 1816. Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annected by France.? Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 19:04:30 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp A very badly written u or a could be interpreted as the other. Or an illegible page may lead to confusion. Even worse is if the a has an umlaut over it. What is the source of your data on the placename? My Rupps are from Assenheim, until you go back far enough, in which case I haven't yet figured out exactly where they came from, although I have clues. I believe I also have seen Rapps in Assenheim, and/or in other places in the German states. So unless you have actual source documents it is hard to say what your ancestors' names were, and even then the person entering the record may have gotten it wrong.? Consider I have about 5000 records on my family, and if only 1 out 500 has a mistake in the name that would be 10 records with an incorrect name. the percentage is considerably higher than that, at least for the ones I can prove with certainty. the best proof is to gather as many sources as you can on a person, and rule out other explanations. I have persons who have gone through three or four different spellings of their lastname over their life (but most of them were French). Strange coincidence Abenheim vs. Assenheim. I have Rupps in Assenheim beginning in the late 1600s, and on in to the 1800s at least. But, I'm just beginning to work that line. On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:36 am, [email protected] wrote: > I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever > been the same?? I have Rapp s from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and > would love to know where they migrated to there from. > > Twila > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am > Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames > > > > Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least > one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but > that could be an isolated incident. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry BevW, I don't do any research in Groß-Karben and don't know anything about the Book you're refering to. There is a map of Hessen somewhere out there in the web, where all existing "Familienbücher" are entered. When moving with the mouse on the town it will tell you author and other useful information on the Familienbuch (if there is any). Unfortunately I do not have a link to that map at hand. You may like to try and google it or ask other members in this list. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 23:03:03 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need word help please Dear Dr. Dietrich and list: I understand that there is a book written by Max Steinbaur about Gross-Karben. I believe the title is Gross-Karben Familien and covers 1699- ?  Checking the Family History Library, it appears that they have a limited volume only up to 1734.  I understand this is a difficult book to come by, but I wondered if anyone has access to it.  Perhaps someone could tell me if it is possible to purchase volumes. It is not clear that my earliest ancestors were in Gross Karben prior to 1734.  A researcher that I have worked with in the past has suggested that my family might have actually come to Gross-Karben sometime between 1730 and 1750.  I would love to continue with my research.  I am very cautious about "going it alone" as it is so easy to make mistakes unless one is knowledgible.  My understanding of the German language is very limited and I am completely lost looking at old script with help of a translator. I would appreciate any suggestions.  If anyone knows where I can find this book (or books), I would be thrilled! Thank you, Bev W ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D6680 72%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

... and to complete my thought... as Solms and Isenburg were not as rich and powerful, they could not afford as many maitresses and bastards and could not make their bastards counts that easily...  ;-)   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 21:55:01 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need word help please On Fri, April 10, 2009 2:24 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > > Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of > Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical > reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, > until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it > back with Hessen-Kassel. Yes, but are we sure we are talking about Hesse-Cassel or Solms-Braunfels in 1725? Or could the sponsors be part of the Ysenburg ruling family? Assenheim fell under all three. While Michael was a gardener for the house of Hanau, that doesn't mean the sponsors of his son are from Hanau. It doesn't say anything about them, and thus I assume they are local, and probably part of the Solms-Braunfels lineage. I'm not sure what to look for in the records for these two to see if they are mentioned elsewhere. Of course this is all coming from the index. I'll have to find the record this weekend. It may be more useful in digging out details. Or not. Thanks again, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I had looked for Solms as well, but didn't find anything there either. Btw it is Solms-Rödelheim who held 1/3 of Assenheim, not Solms-Braunfels. I haven't looked at the Isenburgs yet. Feel free to google a bit yourself, may be you're lucky. However, note that neither Solms nor Isenburg were as rich and powerful as the house of Hessen. That is why both, Solms and Isenburg, were mediatised after the congress of Vienna and were absorbed by the two Hessen, by Prussia and Nassau. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 21:55:01 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need word help please On Fri, April 10, 2009 2:24 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > > Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of > Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical > reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, > until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it > back with Hessen-Kassel. Yes, but are we sure we are talking about Hesse-Cassel or Solms-Braunfels in 1725? Or could the sponsors be part of the Ysenburg ruling family? Assenheim fell under all three. While Michael was a gardener for the house of Hanau, that doesn't mean the sponsors of his son are from Hanau. It doesn't say anything about them, and thus I assume they are local, and probably part of the Solms-Braunfels lineage. I'm not sure what to look for in the records for these two to see if they are mentioned elsewhere. Of course this is all coming from the index. I'll have to find the record this weekend. It may be more useful in digging out details. Or not. Thanks again, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is a mixture of macro-scale historical knowledge adding a few micro-scale aspects from the internet (in this case from www.abenheim.de and www.worms.de).  ;-) The internet is so to say an extension to my brain.  ;-)   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 20:32:45 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Wow! How do you keep all that information in your head!? And don't say wikipedia, because it doesn't even talk about Napolean. lol Brian On Fri, April 10, 2009 12:52 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". > > Abenheim first became part of the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. > Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonic time and the congress of Vienna in > 1816. > > Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to > the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annexed by France.  > > Regards, > > Thierry >   > Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich > > D-61250 Usingen > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hochgräflich is no special title. Hoch- is just a politeness form like "highly noble". Count is count, there is no "high-count".  ;-) Regarding your secondary source it does not really help me. I can't identify these two counts. It indeed may be "bastards" of the Prince Elector of Hessen (Hessen-Kassel) with one of his maitresses. May be they got the title "von Hanau" and "Graf" although at this time it no longer was an independant county, after it had been annected by the Elector Principality of Hessen first half of the 17th century. Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it back with Hessen-Kassel. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 20:23:54 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need word help please On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:54 am, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > I presume Godfather is the person present at the baptism taking > responsibility for the christian education of the child, correct? > > In which case the situation is as follows: > > Your ancestor is the "Hochgräflicher Hanauischer Gärtner". I suppose the You're right it is an l. I guess I should have blown it up a bit more. The l seems to be a capital with a bar going through it, but on magninfication it is clearly an L. So that would make him the "High Count's landscaper/gardner"? > last letter is rather an "l" than a "t". It could be an abbreviation > scribble which make you think it is a "t". I can only judge if you provide > me with a scan. > > Further, according to what you write below the godfathers seem to be two > "Hochgeborene" Graf Ernst Carl & Heinrich Christian.  > > What puzzles me are the first names. They are not typical for the > Hessen-Kassel Dynasty and they cannot belong to the counts of Hanau > neither, which dissappeared after the last representative died in > the first half of the 17th century (your record is unlikely to be that > old). The Solms family also had other preferred first names, so there > isn't a good fit there either. Carle Christian Milde was born 14 feb 1725. Here's a link to the page which links to the graphic: http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html I have seen a birth for a daughter with the countess title in Assenheim. Ameolia or something strange like that. But that may have been in the 1600s. The records go back to 1654. These sponsors may just be non-hereditary relations, in fact your response would seem to indicate they must. They would certainly have been born in the mid to late 17th century. I have only begun to explore this branch of the family. So my data is a bit sparse at this time. I do currently have the films for Assenheim 1654 to 1875. Two different copies in fact. There are several places which include information of the happenings going on and several royal births and deaths recorded. I've pretty much passed them over as the stories are way beyond my ability and the royals didn't really concern me. Although it all was interesting stuff, which I have considered snapping it for later use. If there is anything that you think I should look for to help resolve this, I'll make sure to snap it this weekend. I've never really troubled getting to know the royal lines, as I've really had no reason to chase after them. Although, I've recently discovered, thanks to you, it does affect the locals in various ways. Carle Christian Milde and Leopoldine Louisa Steffans are, Maria Dorothea's parents which I included in the picture. Dorothea is my G5GM. The father Johann Michael was born about 1690, based on his death record. Thanks again! Brian > > I cannot finally resolve these questions, as long as I do not see the full > original record and all information you have available. > >> Milde, Johan Michael  Hochgräft. Hanauischer Gärtner >> >> >> I get that he is a gardener from Hanau, but what's the qualifier mean? >> >> Also, his eldest son has godfathers listed as "Hochgeb. Grf. Ernst Carl & >> Heinrich Christian". >> >> This is in Assenheim, a home to some members of the Solms ruling family. I >> thought the "Grf." might be Graf? and Hochgräft. might mean a gardner to >> the Graf? >> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For how long have they stayed in Abenheim? How many generations? When did they emigrate to the U.S.? There is far to little information to really give you any meaningful advice. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 18:08:48 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp I understand.? Thank you. I wonder if anyone has any direction for me in my Rapp search.? I've researched then from the US back to Abenheim with the help of an old family letter that took me to?the church records in Abenheim, but?there is no mention in those records where they?were before then 1796.? Was there a pattern of migration at this time?? Should I look in neighboring towns?? Is there?another resource for?this time period?? Any direction would help.? Thanks again. Twila -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Dietrich <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:56 am Subject: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp Possible. You need to confirm this for your specific case in searching backwards for common ancestors. Regards, Thierry ? Dr. Thierry?P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 16:36:47 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever been the same?? I have Rapps from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and would love to know where they migrated to there from. Twila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but that could be an isolated incident. Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". Abenheim first became part of the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonian time and the congress of Vienna in 1816. Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annected by France.  Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 19:04:30 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp A very badly written u or a could be interpreted as the other. Or an illegible page may lead to confusion. Even worse is if the a has an umlaut over it. What is the source of your data on the placename? My Rupps are from Assenheim, until you go back far enough, in which case I haven't yet figured out exactly where they came from, although I have clues. I believe I also have seen Rapps in Assenheim, and/or in other places in the German states. So unless you have actual source documents it is hard to say what your ancestors' names were, and even then the person entering the record may have gotten it wrong.  Consider I have about 5000 records on my family, and if only 1 out 500 has a mistake in the name that would be 10 records with an incorrect name. the percentage is considerably higher than that, at least for the ones I can prove with certainty. the best proof is to gather as many sources as you can on a person, and rule out other explanations. I have persons who have gone through three or four different spellings of their lastname over their life (but most of them were French). Strange coincidence Abenheim vs. Assenheim. I have Rupps in Assenheim beginning in the late 1600s, and on in to the 1800s at least. But, I'm just beginning to work that line. On Fri, April 10, 2009 9:36 am, [email protected] wrote: > I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever > been the same?? I have Rapps from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and > would love to know where they migrated to there from. > > Twila > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am > Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames > > > > Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least > one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but > that could be an isolated incident. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Dr. Dietrich and list: I understand that there is a book written by Max Steinbaur about Gross-Karben. I believe the title is Gross-Karben Familien and covers 1699- ? Checking the Family History Library, it appears that they have a limited volume only up to 1734. I understand this is a difficult book to come by, but I wondered if anyone has access to it. Perhaps someone could tell me if it is possible to purchase volumes. It is not clear that my earliest ancestors were in Gross Karben prior to 1734. A researcher that I have worked with in the past has suggested that my family might have actually come to Gross-Karben sometime between 1730 and 1750. I would love to continue with my research. I am very cautious about "going it alone" as it is so easy to make mistakes unless one is knowledgible. My understanding of the German language is very limited and I am completely lost looking at old script with help of a translator. I would appreciate any suggestions. If anyone knows where I can find this book (or books), I would be thrilled! Thank you, Bev W ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D6680 72%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

A friend of mine, who's maiden name is RAPP, once told me her ancestors are from the Constantin area. **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

Possible. You need to confirm this for your specific case in searching backwards for common ancestors. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 16:36:47 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Rupp - Rapp I have a question...Is there any chance that Rupp and Rapp could have ever been the same?? I have Rapps from Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796, and would love to know where they migrated to there from. Twila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 9:57 am Subject: [HESSE] A question on surnames Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but that could be an isolated incident. Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ruppel could be a diminishing form of Rupp and thus a surname. Surnames sometimes turn to last names. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 15:57:37 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] A question on surnames Should I consider Rupp as a separate surname from Ruppel? I have at least one confirmed case in this town where Rupel was used in naming a Rupp, but that could be an isolated incident. Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Fri, April 10, 2009 2:24 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > > Several years after the birth you are mentioning the Prince Elector of > Hessen, Wilhelm I., does separate the County of Hanau for tactical > reasons. Anyway it was after your record and it was only for a few years, > until his grand-son heritated the entire Prince Electorate and merged it > back with Hessen-Kassel. Yes, but are we sure we are talking about Hesse-Cassel or Solms-Braunfels in 1725? Or could the sponsors be part of the Ysenburg ruling family? Assenheim fell under all three. While Michael was a gardener for the house of Hanau, that doesn't mean the sponsors of his son are from Hanau. It doesn't say anything about them, and thus I assume they are local, and probably part of the Solms-Braunfels lineage. I'm not sure what to look for in the records for these two to see if they are mentioned elsewhere. Of course this is all coming from the index. I'll have to find the record this weekend. It may be more useful in digging out details. Or not. Thanks again, Brian

I presume Godfather is the person present at the baptism taking responsibility for the christian education of the child, correct? In which case the situation is as follows: Your ancestor is the "Hochgräflicher Hanauischer Gärtner". I suppose the last letter is rather an "l" than a "t". It could be an abbreviation scribble which make you think it is a "t". I can only judge if you provide me with a scan. Further, according to what you write below the godfathers seem to be two "Hochgeborene" Graf Ernst Carl & Heinrich Christian.  What puzzles me are the first names. They are not typical for the Hessen-Kassel Dynasty and they cannot belong to the counts of Hanau neither, which dissappeared after the last representative died in the first half of the 17th century (your record is unlikely to be that old). The Solms family also had other preferred first names, so there isn't a good fit there either. I cannot finally resolve these questions, as long as I do not see the full original record and all information you have available. Regards, Thierry   Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich D-61250 Usingen ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 10. April 2009, 14:58:09 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Need word help please What is "Hochgräft." an abbreviation for? Context: A name register in a church book Milde, Johan Michael  Hochgräft. Hanauischer Gärtner I get that he is a gardener from Hanau, but what's the qualifier mean? Also, his eldest son has godfathers listed as "Hochgeb. Grf. Ernst Carl & Heinrich Christian". This is in Assenheim, a home to some members of the Solms ruling family. I thought the "Grf." might be Graf? and Hochgräft. might mean a gardner to the Graf? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow! How do you keep all that information in your head!? And don't say wikipedia, because it doesn't even talk about Napolean. lol Brian On Fri, April 10, 2009 12:52 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Just a little comment on "Abenheim in Hessen Darmstadt 1796". > > Abenheim first became part of the Grand-Duchy of Hessen (a.k.a. > Hessen-Darmstadt) after the Napoleonic time and the congress of Vienna in > 1816. > > Thus in 1796 Abenheim has never been Hessian. Until 1797 it belonged to > the noble family of Dalberg. Then it was occupied and annexed by France.  > > Regards, > > Thierry >   > Dr. Thierry P. Dietrich > > D-61250 Usingen > >