Hello, I am new to this list. I am currently trying to trace some VOGT ancestors in Frankfurt. I live in France (so a trip to Germany is easy to do) and I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of where to start doing research for Frankfurt. Is there a big family history library in Frankfurt? Are all the records centralized? Or maybe there is a great website someone can direct me to? Thanks in advance, Karen VOGT _________________________________________________________________ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/

Hello Karen, I found the following address for the archives: Stadtarchiv, Karmelitergasse 5, 60311 Frankfurt am Main, Fax 011 49 69 2123 0753 can be found on the following url: http://members.cox.net/hessen/archives.htm Most of the archives have a small amount of desk space to accommodate and giving them a few days to make room is a very necessary step to make your trip fruitful. Good hunting Marie ---- karen vogt <[email protected]> wrote: > >Hello, >I am new to this list. I am currently trying to trace some VOGT ancestors in Frankfurt. I live in France (so a trip to Germany is easy to do) and I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of where to start doing research for Frankfurt. Is there a big family history library in Frankfurt? Are all the records centralized? Or maybe there is a great website someone can direct me to? >Thanks in advance, >Karen VOGT > >_________________________________________________________________ >More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Please ignore. Sorry. Dot

A few comments first. Johann or Johannes were probably the first first name of about 80% of all men. Thus relevant is the second first name, which mostly was the factually used first name (=Rufname). Georg, however, was also very popular at that time. Just assuming it is the same one you have in your ancestry list is risky and may be misleading you in your research. I have faced the issue several times with exactly this first name combination: Johann Georg in a town about 25 km West of Assenheim. There were at least 3 men of the same first and last name at the same time. It is not that easy... or to use Albert Einstein's famous quote "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler"!  ;-) Translation: "Acre book [no idea how to translate this, such kind of books may not exist in the U. S.!] for the so called "Röther Güter" [may indicate this acre area / property was gained by clearing a forest] located in the Leider Mark [Mark = March = Borderland] (Leider close to Aschaffenburg) and for the 18 "Hub" properties [a "Hubbauer" was a farmer managing land owned by a landlord. He payed the landlord an interest. However, in this kind of fiefdom the Hubbauer could bequeath his "Hubgüter" to his son] in Leider. - Sorted by owners. Volume 1: Cover page and page 1 missing, changes of owners added; Attestation note of August 3rd 1684, nomination of the canon from Aschaffenburg Jost Philipp Gans and the vicar Stephan Hoffmann as well as the chamberlain [the exact meaning of Keller varies from region to region and along the centuries] of Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausen named Ittmann and Johann Georg Engelbach. Volume 2: created a little later, overlaps of ownerships, but another appendix then volume 1. - Note: Refer to "Leben in Leider", Portrait of a quarter, bonded text, edited by Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang Kaup and Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger studies. II. Documentation, Volume 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, Page 8-11." Regards, Thierry   ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 24. April 2009, 22:16:29 Uhr Betreff: [HESSE] Translation please Alright, I've translated it but it makes no sense to me. This is an entry in the Hesse Archives, and it comes from the Amtsbücher Solms-Rödelheim. "Ackerbuch für die sogen. "Röther Güter" auf der Leider Mark [Leider bei Aschaffenburg] und für die 18 Hubgüter zu Leider. - Nach Besitzern geordnet. Bd. 1: Umschlagblatt und S. 1 fehlen, Änderung der Besitzer nachgetragen; Beglaubigungsvermerk vom 3.8.1684, Nennung des [Aschaffenburger] Kanonikers Jost Philipp Gans und des Vikars Stephan Hoffmann sowie der Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausener Keller Ittmann und Johann Georg Engelbach. Bd. 2: wenig später angelegt, Überschneidungen bei den Besitzern, jedoch andere Anlage als Bd. 1. - Anm.: Dazu siehe Leben in Leider. Portrait eines Stadtteils, Textband, bearb. von Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang Kaup und Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger Studien. II. Dokumentation, Bd. 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, S. 8-11." I believe this is referring to Johann Georg Engelbach, who is listed only as Solms. Soldat Engelbach one baptism record for one of my ancestors. Also, Can I write to the Archives and get the information contained in any of the documents shown? I've come across quite a few for Engelbach ans Breitwiesers. Both of whom I'm discovering lived in Weiseck or Geissen, just like the mystery woman who Johannetta Engelbach was a sponsor for. Hmmm, coincidence? Thanks, Brian ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thierry, Thanks for the lesson. I am aware of the commonness of Johann Georg, and of the first name being the "Christian name" as my Mother used to say. Although my mother went against tradition and reversed that custom for her children. However, Engelbach isn't nearly as common, and a good number of the records I see in HADIS are definitely for one or more of my Engelbachs in Assenheim. However, the first Engelbach I have is a soldier, and the first Engelbach referenced in the Kirchenbuch. So, I am looking further out to try and find his origin and there are some candidates much closer than Aschaffenburg. This one is however one of only a very few references to any Engelbach, and one of the earliest. Since it is in the area and under Solms-Rödelheim control, he is a plausible candidate to pursue. I do have one or two other candidates. So, it's not a waste of time to pursue all of them at the same time. At the worst, I will begin building family trees of all Engelbachs in the Hanau/Hesse region. Well, I'm off to the library to do some more record extraction. Thanks! Brian On Sat, April 25, 2009 5:39 am, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > A few comments first. > > Johann or Johannes were probably the first first name of about 80% of all > men. Thus relevant is the second first name, which mostly was > the factually used first name (=Rufname). Georg, however, was also very > popular at that time. Just assuming it is the same one you have in your > ancestry list is risky and may be misleading you in your research. > > I have faced the issue several times with exactly this first name > combination: Johann Georg in a town about 25 km West of Assenheim. There > were at least 3 men of the same first and last name at the same time. It > is not that easy... or to use Albert Einstein's famous quote "Make it as > simple as possible, but not simpler"!  ;-) > > Translation: > "Acre book [no idea how to translate this, such kind of books may not > exist in the U. S.!] for the so called > "Röther Güter" [may indicate this acre area / property was gained by > clearing a forest] located in the Leider > Mark [Mark = March = Borderland] (Leider close to Aschaffenburg) and for > the 18 "Hub" properties [a "Hubbauer" > was a farmer managing land owned by a landlord. He payed the landlord an > interest. However, in this kind of > fiefdom the Hubbauer could bequeath his "Hubgüter" to his son] in > Leider. - Sorted by owners. Volume 1: Cover page > and page 1 missing, changes of owners added; Attestation note of August > 3rd 1684, nomination of the canon from > Aschaffenburg Jost Philipp Gans and the vicar Stephan Hoffmann as well as > the chamberlain [the exact meaning of > Keller varies from region to region and along the centuries] of > Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausen named Ittmann and > Johann Georg Engelbach. Volume 2: created a little later, overlaps of > ownerships, but another appendix then volume 1. > - Note: Refer to "Leben in Leider", Portrait of a quarter, bonded text, > edited by Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang > Kaup and Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger studies. II. Documentation, Volume > 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, Page 8-11." > > Regards, Thierry >   > > > > ________________________________ > Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > An: [email protected] > Gesendet: Freitag, den 24. April 2009, 22:16:29 Uhr > Betreff: [HESSE] Translation please > > Alright, I've translated it but it makes no sense to me. This is an entry > in the Hesse Archives, and it comes from the Amtsbücher Solms-Rödelheim. > > "Ackerbuch für die sogen. "Röther Güter" auf der Leider Mark [Leider bei > Aschaffenburg] und für die 18 Hubgüter zu Leider. - Nach Besitzern > geordnet. Bd. 1: Umschlagblatt und S. 1 fehlen, Änderung der Besitzer > nachgetragen; Beglaubigungsvermerk vom 3.8.1684, Nennung des > [Aschaffenburger] Kanonikers Jost Philipp Gans und des Vikars Stephan > Hoffmann sowie der Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausener Keller Ittmann und > Johann Georg Engelbach. Bd. 2: wenig später angelegt, Überschneidungen bei > den Besitzern, jedoch andere Anlage als Bd. 1. - Anm.: Dazu siehe Leben in > Leider. Portrait eines Stadtteils, Textband, bearb. von Wilhelm Kaup, > Wolfgang Kaup und Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger Studien. II. > Dokumentation, Bd. 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, S. 8-11." > > I believe this is referring to Johann Georg Engelbach, who is listed only > as Solms. Soldat Engelbach one baptism record for one of my ancestors. > > Also, Can I write to the Archives and get the information contained in any > of the documents shown? I've come across quite a few for Engelbach ans > Breitwiesers. Both of whom I'm discovering lived in Weiseck or Geissen, > just like the mystery woman who Johannetta Engelbach was a sponsor for. > Hmmm, coincidence? > > Thanks, > Brian > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Brian: I'm assuming the ? are umlauted vowels which for some reason don't show up as such: Book of farmland for the so-called "Ruether" farms/estates at the Leider mark [Leider near Aschaffenburg] and for the 18 Hubgueter at Leiden. Arranged according to owner. Volume 1: cover and page 1 are missing; change of owners recorded; attestation clause from August 3, 1684; mention of the [Aschaffenburg] canonic Jost Philipp Gans and vicar Stephan Hoffmann as well as the Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhaus Keller(?) Ittmann and Johann Georg Engelbach. Volume 2: added somewhat later, overlap concerning the owners, however other appendices than in volume 1. Note: see also "Life in Leiden, Portrait of a Town Quarter," text arranged by Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang Kaup and Klaus Hapke (Aschaffenburg Studies II, documentation, volume 11), Aschaffenburg, 1995, pages 8-11. Paul In a message dated 4/25/2009 3:14:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: "Ackerbuch f?r die sogen. "R?ther G?ter" auf der Leider Mark [Leider bei Aschaffenburg] und f?r die 18 Hubg?ter zu Leider. - Nach Besitzern geordnet. Bd. 1: Umschlagblatt und S. 1 fehlen, ?nderung der Besitzer nachgetragen; Beglaubigungsvermerk vom 3.8.1684, Nennung des [Aschaffenburger] Kanonikers Jost Philipp Gans und des Vikars Stephan Hoffmann sowie der Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausener Keller Ittmann und Johann Georg Engelbach. Bd. 2: wenig sp?ter angelegt, ?berschneidungen bei den Besitzern, jedoch andere Anlage als Bd. 1. - Anm.: Dazu siehe Leben in Leider. Portrait eines Stadtteils, Textband, bearb. von Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang Kaup und Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger Studien. II. Dokumentation, Bd. 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, S. 8-11." **************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web. Try the new Email Toolbar now! (http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027)

Alright, I've translated it but it makes no sense to me. This is an entry in the Hesse Archives, and it comes from the Amtsbücher Solms-Rödelheim. "Ackerbuch für die sogen. "Röther Güter" auf der Leider Mark [Leider bei Aschaffenburg] und für die 18 Hubgüter zu Leider. - Nach Besitzern geordnet. Bd. 1: Umschlagblatt und S. 1 fehlen, Änderung der Besitzer nachgetragen; Beglaubigungsvermerk vom 3.8.1684, Nennung des [Aschaffenburger] Kanonikers Jost Philipp Gans und des Vikars Stephan Hoffmann sowie der Hanau-Lichtenberg-Babenhausener Keller Ittmann und Johann Georg Engelbach. Bd. 2: wenig später angelegt, Überschneidungen bei den Besitzern, jedoch andere Anlage als Bd. 1. - Anm.: Dazu siehe Leben in Leider. Portrait eines Stadtteils, Textband, bearb. von Wilhelm Kaup, Wolfgang Kaup und Klaus Hapke (= Aschaffenburger Studien. II. Dokumentation, Bd. 11), Aschaffenburg 1995, S. 8-11." I believe this is referring to Johann Georg Engelbach, who is listed only as Solms. Soldat Engelbach one baptism record for one of my ancestors. Also, Can I write to the Archives and get the information contained in any of the documents shown? I've come across quite a few for Engelbach ans Breitwiesers. Both of whom I'm discovering lived in Weiseck or Geissen, just like the mystery woman who Johannetta Engelbach was a sponsor for. Hmmm, coincidence? Thanks, Brian

As discussed in this list already, Assenheim was 1/3 in possession of Hanau. I agree, a soldier could very likely be the father.   ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 24. April 2009, 07:00:45 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Interesting why a person from there would be in Assenheim and why she'd be searching in Hanau. The only connection I can see is maybe soldiers. This record convinces me, I have to do some searching in Hanau. Thanks, and the other transcription makes a lot of sense. Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 3:26 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Wisseck  bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could you please remind me the exact year of that document? I would like to check something for you. Regards, Thierry   ________________________________ Von: Henry Benoit <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Freitag, den 24. April 2009, 14:10:20 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Thanks to Brian, Paul and Thierry for this very interesting transcription example. It was a rare opportunity for me to work on my modest transcription skills. Henry. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Interesting why a person from there would be in Assenheim and why she'd be searching in Hanau. The only connection I can see is maybe soldiers. This record convinces me, I have to do some searching in Hanau. Thanks, and the other transcription makes a lot of sense. Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 3:26 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Wisseck bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It was 1782. I undrestand the part about looking in Hanau, but Weiseck wasn't part of Isenberg, Hanau, Solms, Assenheim, or Munzenberg. It was Hesse-Darmstadt territory, although not to far from Munzenberg. I do note there it was fairly close to Rodheim and I've seen other persons from there. that is Rodheim and not Rodelheim. Rodelheim of course was a residence for the Solms-Rodelheim Grafs. I think that a number of the persons in the town of Assenheim were part of the Solms household and may have traveled back and forth with them. Makes Sense, right? I've seen a few references to Ysenberger soldiers too, in some very early records (1600s). So, I'm wondering who actually occupied the castle, and whether the Isenbergs had a residence there (early on), as well as the Hanau ruling family. Of course it's always possible I'm reading the Rodheim wrong. I've got a few relatives who came from Ysenberg, which I'm assuming is actually the town over in the Reinland-Pfalz region. So much to learn and no one from Assenheim (Niddatal) that I've written to as yet has responded. Thanks Thierry, and everyone on the list, for all your educational responses. Brian On Fri, April 24, 2009 8:50 am, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Could you please remind me the exact year of that document? > > I would like to check something for you. > > Regards, Thierry >   > > > > > ________________________________ > Von: Henry Benoit <[email protected]> > An: [email protected] > Gesendet: Freitag, den 24. April 2009, 14:10:20 Uhr > Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism > > Thanks to Brian, Paul and Thierry for this very interesting transcription > example. It was a rare opportunity for me to work on my modest > transcription > skills. > > Henry. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:00 AM > Subject: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism > > > Interesting why a person from there would be in Assenheim and why she'd be > searching in Hanau. The only connection I can see is maybe soldiers. > This record convinces me, I have to do some searching in Hanau. > > Thanks, and the other transcription makes a lot of sense. > > Brian > > On Thu, April 23, 2009 3:26 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: >> Wisseck bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > >

No confusion -- the woman said she and her husband were from Wisseck outside Giesen, and he had left her. > "D. 28t, Jun? kame eine frembde Weibsperson hier her und brachte > alsbalden > mittags um 12 Uhr eine Tochter zur Welt, welche d. 30t. d. M. > getauft wurde > und von Johanette Elisabetha Engelbachin als Taufzeugin den Nahmen > Johanetta Elisabetha empfienge. Die Mutter giebt vor, sie und ihr > Mann se?en von > Wisseck bei Giesen, der Mann heise Johann Adam Scheuner, sie aber > Louise; > der Mann habe sie verlassen und sie hatte ihn in Hanautwillen(?) > suchen aber > nicht ausfindig machen k?nnen." > > On June 28, a woman who was a stranger came here and midday about > 12:00 > brought a daughter into the world. She was baptized on the 30th of > the same > month and, from Johanette Elisabetha Engelbach, the godmother, > received the > name Johanetta Elisabetha. The mother stated that she and her man > are from > Wisseck bei Giesen, and that his name is Johann Adam Scheuner(?) and > hers is > Louise. The man left her and she looked for him in Hanautwillen(?) > but he > couldn't be found. > > Paul

Thanks to Brian, Paul and Thierry for this very interesting transcription example. It was a rare opportunity for me to work on my modest transcription skills. Henry. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Interesting why a person from there would be in Assenheim and why she'd be searching in Hanau. The only connection I can see is maybe soldiers. This record convinces me, I have to do some searching in Hanau. Thanks, and the other transcription makes a lot of sense. Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 3:26 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Wisseck bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Interesting why a person from there would be in Assenheim and why she'd be searching in Hanau. The only connection I can see is maybe soldiers. This record convinces me, I have to do some searching in Hanau. Thanks, and the other transcription makes a lot of sense. Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 3:26 pm, Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Wisseck  bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. > > >

Wisseck  bei Giesen = Wieseck, today part of Gießen. ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 23. April 2009, 17:26:28 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Wow! Thanks! I knew there was something important in those first few words. I think probably the clergyman was suspicious of the stranger, combined with the godmother in particular. Which is probably why Mann was used instead of husband. I'd sure love to be able to get more on the story behind this. I think the place is not Hanautwillen. I'm fairly certain it ends in "rollen". The hanau is probably just to indicate it is in Hanau, and may be a separate word. Although, it's clearly written close together as if on word. I'm not sure that is a "t", but don't know what else it could be. I'm very certain it is an "ro", he used this form of an "r" whenever he needed to come back down to the base to start the next letter. Could this simply mean from a place in Hanau territory, or rather to specify Hanau as a city rather than the regime? Thanks, and here I thought I found another relative, from one of my black sheep. Although this record helps me to determine she didn't marry either of her children's fathers as late as 1782 (one child now eleven and another eight). Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 7:39 am, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Brian: > "Mann" can simply mean "man," but also husband. I assume the former, > although it is not clear in the record. > > "D. 28t, Junÿ kame eine frembde Weibsperson hier her und brachte alsbalden > mittags um 12 Uhr eine Tochter zur Welt, welche d. 30t. d. M. getauft > wurde > und  von Johanette Elisabetha Engelbachin als Taufzeugin den Nahmen > Johanetta  Elisabetha empfienge. Die Mutter giebt vor, sie und ihr Mann > seÿen von > Wisseck  bei Giesen, der Mann heise Johann Adam Scheuner, sie aber Louise; > der Mann habe  sie verlassen und sie hatte ihn in Hanautwillen(?) suchen > aber > nicht ausfindig  machen können." > > On June 28, a woman who was a stranger came here and midday about 12:00 > brought a daughter into the world. She was baptized on the 30th of the > same > month and, from Johanette Elisabetha Engelbach, the godmother, received > the > name  Johanetta Elisabetha. The mother stated that she and her man are > from > Wisseck bei Giesen, and that his name is Johann Adam Scheuner(?) and hers > is >  Louise. The man left her and she looked for him in Hanautwillen(?) but he > couldn't be found. > > Paul > > > In a message dated 4/23/2009 3:07:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I'd  really like someone to take a stab at > transcribing this one for  me. > > http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

... sie hat ihn in Hanau wollen suchen   ________________________________ Von: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> An: [email protected] Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 23. April 2009, 17:26:28 Uhr Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Need help in deciphering a baptism Wow! Thanks! I knew there was something important in those first few words. I think probably the clergyman was suspicious of the stranger, combined with the godmother in particular. Which is probably why Mann was used instead of husband. I'd sure love to be able to get more on the story behind this. I think the place is not Hanautwillen. I'm fairly certain it ends in "rollen". The hanau is probably just to indicate it is in Hanau, and may be a separate word. Although, it's clearly written close together as if on word. I'm not sure that is a "t", but don't know what else it could be. I'm very certain it is an "ro", he used this form of an "r" whenever he needed to come back down to the base to start the next letter. Could this simply mean from a place in Hanau territory, or rather to specify Hanau as a city rather than the regime? Thanks, and here I thought I found another relative, from one of my black sheep. Although this record helps me to determine she didn't marry either of her children's fathers as late as 1782 (one child now eleven and another eight). Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 7:39 am, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Brian: > "Mann" can simply mean "man," but also husband. I assume the former, > although it is not clear in the record. > > "D. 28t, Junÿ kame eine frembde Weibsperson hier her und brachte alsbalden > mittags um 12 Uhr eine Tochter zur Welt, welche d. 30t. d. M. getauft > wurde > und  von Johanette Elisabetha Engelbachin als Taufzeugin den Nahmen > Johanetta  Elisabetha empfienge. Die Mutter giebt vor, sie und ihr Mann > seÿen von > Wisseck  bei Giesen, der Mann heise Johann Adam Scheuner, sie aber Louise; > der Mann habe  sie verlassen und sie hatte ihn in Hanautwillen(?) suchen > aber > nicht ausfindig  machen können." > > On June 28, a woman who was a stranger came here and midday about 12:00 > brought a daughter into the world. She was baptized on the 30th of the > same > month and, from Johanette Elisabetha Engelbach, the godmother, received > the > name  Johanetta Elisabetha. The mother stated that she and her man are > from > Wisseck bei Giesen, and that his name is Johann Adam Scheuner(?) and hers > is >  Louise. The man left her and she looked for him in Hanautwillen(?) but he > couldn't be found. > > Paul > > > In a message dated 4/23/2009 3:07:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I'd  really like someone to take a stab at > transcribing this one for  me. > > http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow! Thanks! I knew there was something important in those first few words. I think probably the clergyman was suspicious of the stranger, combined with the godmother in particular. Which is probably why Mann was used instead of husband. I'd sure love to be able to get more on the story behind this. I think the place is not Hanautwillen. I'm fairly certain it ends in "rollen". The hanau is probably just to indicate it is in Hanau, and may be a separate word. Although, it's clearly written close together as if on word. I'm not sure that is a "t", but don't know what else it could be. I'm very certain it is an "ro", he used this form of an "r" whenever he needed to come back down to the base to start the next letter. Could this simply mean from a place in Hanau territory, or rather to specify Hanau as a city rather than the regime? Thanks, and here I thought I found another relative, from one of my black sheep. Although this record helps me to determine she didn't marry either of her children's fathers as late as 1782 (one child now eleven and another eight). Brian On Thu, April 23, 2009 7:39 am, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Brian: > "Mann" can simply mean "man," but also husband. I assume the former, > although it is not clear in the record. > > "D. 28t, Junÿ kame eine frembde Weibsperson hier her und brachte alsbalden > mittags um 12 Uhr eine Tochter zur Welt, welche d. 30t. d. M. getauft > wurde > und von Johanette Elisabetha Engelbachin als Taufzeugin den Nahmen > Johanetta Elisabetha empfienge. Die Mutter giebt vor, sie und ihr Mann > seÿen von > Wisseck bei Giesen, der Mann heise Johann Adam Scheuner, sie aber Louise; > der Mann habe sie verlassen und sie hatte ihn in Hanautwillen(?) suchen > aber > nicht ausfindig machen können." > > On June 28, a woman who was a stranger came here and midday about 12:00 > brought a daughter into the world. She was baptized on the 30th of the > same > month and, from Johanette Elisabetha Engelbach, the godmother, received > the > name Johanetta Elisabetha. The mother stated that she and her man are > from > Wisseck bei Giesen, and that his name is Johann Adam Scheuner(?) and hers > is > Louise. The man left her and she looked for him in Hanautwillen(?) but he > couldn't be found. > > Paul > > > In a message dated 4/23/2009 3:07:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > I'd really like someone to take a stab at > transcribing this one for me. > > http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html > >

Hi Brian: "Mann" can simply mean "man," but also husband. I assume the former, although it is not clear in the record. "D. 28t, Junÿ kame eine frembde Weibsperson hier her und brachte alsbalden mittags um 12 Uhr eine Tochter zur Welt, welche d. 30t. d. M. getauft wurde und von Johanette Elisabetha Engelbachin als Taufzeugin den Nahmen Johanetta Elisabetha empfienge. Die Mutter giebt vor, sie und ihr Mann seÿen von Wisseck bei Giesen, der Mann heise Johann Adam Scheuner, sie aber Louise; der Mann habe sie verlassen und sie hatte ihn in Hanautwillen(?) suchen aber nicht ausfindig machen können." On June 28, a woman who was a stranger came here and midday about 12:00 brought a daughter into the world. She was baptized on the 30th of the same month and, from Johanette Elisabetha Engelbach, the godmother, received the name Johanetta Elisabetha. The mother stated that she and her man are from Wisseck bei Giesen, and that his name is Johann Adam Scheuner(?) and hers is Louise. The man left her and she looked for him in Hanautwillen(?) but he couldn't be found. Paul In a message dated 4/23/2009 3:07:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I'd really like someone to take a stab at transcribing this one for me. http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219799634x1201361008/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl eclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133440%3B36002254%3Bj)

My grt. grandfather was born in 1835 and assume he was in the military for a period. How do I find any records for him? Georg Heinrich Falter - 8 Apr 1835 came to US in Mar 1872 after marriage in Germany. Jan in US -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 3980 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hello, Family lore has it that an ancestor was in Napoleon's army and was wounded in Smolensk, in 1812. He returned home to either Badenheim or Flonheim, married and raised a family. His name was Franciscus ENGELDRUM. Is there an index of German soldiers who served in Napoleon's army? I would like to confirm this if possible. Thank you. Judy J. Eggers [email protected]

I could probably figure most of this out given enough time. However, this baptism is rather strange for this locality. I suspect, the clergyman wasn't too happy with Johannetta. I've posted a baptism of Johannetta Engelbach's daughter. She had two illegitimate sons with two different soldier fathers. I can't make out who is or if a father is listed in this record. It looks like maybe she was living in sin with someone. I'd really like someone to take a stab at transcribing this one for me. http://www.amason.net/~brian/hesse.html Thanks, Brian