Sorry, I made a mistake. It is not "Hessische Landeskirche von Kurhessen Waldeck".  The right name is: "Evangelische Landeskirche von Kurhessen Waldeck".   Regards Karl --- Karl Schien <[email protected]> schrieb am Do, 14.5.2009: Von: Karl Schien <[email protected]> Betreff: Re: [HESSE] Birstein Kirchenbücher and pastoral records An: [email protected] Datum: Donnerstag, 14. Mai 2009, 15:29 Hello old members of that list! I am still alive and very busy in researching my local history.   Hello David, Birstein belongs to the "Hessische Landeskirche von Kurhessen Waldeck". That Organisation did not allow the LDS filming the church books. The church books are archived in the church office of Birstein. The Hessische Landeskirche started filming the church books some years ago, but the books of Birstein are still not filmed. I think you don't need them.   I took a look in the book: Pfarrergeschichte des Sprengels Hanau ("Hanauer Union") bis 1968, Marburg 1984, Page 522: 14. Pfarrer of Birstein HOFFMANN, Johann Christian, 1657-1662 Aus Sontra. Born in Sontra Imm. Bremen 1648, studied in Bremen 1650-1651 Pfarrverseher (?curate?) in Edenkoben-Walsheim, 1651-1653 Pfarrer in Weingarten (Pfalz), 1654-1656 Pfarrer in Langenselbold, 1657-1662 Pfarrer in Birstein und Unterreichenbach, 1667-1672 Interimspfarrer in Osthofen, 1677-1694 und 1698ff. Pfarrer in Nußloch. Das älteste der noch vorhandenen Kirchenbücher in Birstein ist von Pfarrer Hoffmann angefangen worden. The oldest church book of Birstein begins in 1657 by him. I got a list of all names registered in the old church book between 1660 and 1700. There is mentioned only: Balthasar Hofmann, Gerichtschöffe (juryman). Are you familiar with him? I don’t believe that he his something to do with Pfarrer Hofmann. Hofmann is a common name in Germany and the Birstein area.   I hope I could help you.   Greetings from Germany Karl           ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don, The research is difficult for German-speakers as well.   Regards Karl

Hello old members of that list! I am still alive and very busy in researching my local history.   Hello David, Birstein belongs to the "Hessische Landeskirche von Kurhessen Waldeck". That Organisation did not allow the LDS filming the church books. The church books are archived in the church office of Birstein. The Hessische Landeskirche started filming the church books some years ago, but the books of Birstein are still not filmed. I think you don't need them.   I took a look in the book: Pfarrergeschichte des Sprengels Hanau ("Hanauer Union") bis 1968, Marburg 1984, Page 522: 14. Pfarrer of Birstein HOFFMANN, Johann Christian, 1657-1662 Aus Sontra. Born in Sontra Imm. Bremen 1648, studied in Bremen 1650-1651 Pfarrverseher (?curate?) in Edenkoben-Walsheim, 1651-1653 Pfarrer in Weingarten (Pfalz), 1654-1656 Pfarrer in Langenselbold, 1657-1662 Pfarrer in Birstein und Unterreichenbach, 1667-1672 Interimspfarrer in Osthofen, 1677-1694 und 1698ff. Pfarrer in Nußloch. Das älteste der noch vorhandenen Kirchenbücher in Birstein ist von Pfarrer Hoffmann angefangen worden. The oldest church book of Birstein begins in 1657 by him. I got a list of all names registered in the old church book between 1660 and 1700. There is mentioned only: Balthasar Hofmann, Gerichtschöffe (juryman). Are you familiar with him? I don’t believe that he his something to do with Pfarrer Hofmann. Hofmann is a common name in Germany and the Birstein area.   I hope I could help you.   Greetings from Germany Karl    

On Thu, May 14, 2009 8:29 am, Karl Schien wrote: > > Hello old members of that list! > I am still alive and very busy in researching my local history. >   > Hello David, > Birstein belongs to the "Hessische Landeskirche von Kurhessen Waldeck". > That Organisation did not allow the LDS filming the church books. The It's amazing what the power of fear can do. I will never cease to be amazed at the human capacity for idiocy. Like we geeks in the software business say. First axiom of Software Programming: "Software Programming is the battle between programmers trying to make bigger and better idiot-proof software and God trying to make bigger and better idiots. So far God is winning." This axiom could be applied to many other aspect of the human condition. All these places have old crumbling records that will someday no longer exist, along comes a group of people who offer to preserve them for posterity at no cost to them, and the response is ... Don't you dare! If only we had more governments like Norway, who preserved all the records out of their own budget and made them available to everyone for free! The Roman Catholic Church could do this if they wanted to. Heck they could even make a money stream out of it. Now I discover there are other holdouts. Ugh!

Dear list members, I am searching for records of my ancestor Christian HOFFMANN and family. Christian was a pastor in the evangelical church and served in Birstein from 1667 - 1672. I am looking for Kirchenbücher and also any records (Stellenbesetzung) for Christian's term as pastor in Birstein. The LDS church does not have microfilms. I am hoping that members of this list might have answers to the following questions? Where are the Kirchenbücher archived? Are they at the EKKW (Ev. Kirche von Kurhessen-Waldeck) in Kassel? Are they in microform or the original books? Are you aware of pastoral records for Birstein? If so, where might I find them? Thank you. David Bennett

Thank you I can see now how you get Adam but I still don't see Steinacker. They were in the area though, so probably correct. I included two because there was a slight variation and the names were on 2 different petitions; one for incorporation of the town; and one against. There was a Lorenz Nau in the area and I can see it now Not aware of any Fuchs in the area but I was hoping for Falk. I see Fuchs much more easily than seeing Falk though. Always easier to see when you know the answer. JK Thierry Dietrich wrote: > Some names I could decipher... > > Adam Steinacker (twice!!!) > Jacob Wagner (it is no circumflex, it just is part of the letter "c", just a little bit elevated) > Lorenz Nau? > Adam Fuchs? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just informational .. please don't ask me to explain further. Thanks! The ROOTS video and the associated videos were quite interesting. I did my DNA --- the result was in accord with my father's recollection that we were Scots-Irish (Ulster Scots). The timeline before that took us, as a group, back across Scotland, The Netherlands, France, Germany, and points east, then south, and back west. The procedure connected me to helpful websites for an indepth evaluation, at additional cost. The chart and tools received were interesting, to say the least. :-) Don

Hi Brian, The genealogist, Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak was one of the "pioneers" of the use of DNA for genealogy. She married a man with the same surname. She met him when she went around looking for others that had her very unusual name. A number of them took the DNA test along with her father. Her family originated in a small village in Slovakia. Four families from this small village had the name Smolenyak. She had tried linking the family with paper records. As far back as they were able to go there was no connection. Enter DNA. She started a DNA study of the whole village. They discovered that two of the families were actually going by the name Smolenyak when they were really genectically part of other families. The two remaining Smolenyak families were not related. Considering the rarity of her surname, many people would have assumed that all the families were related. Bobbi ----- Original Message ----- To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] DNA Internet videos are basically useless to deaf people, at least until they begin to add captioning (or transcripts). But thanks anyway. Brian

On Sun, May 10, 2009 11:05 am, Bobbi wrote: > Hi Brian, > > To answer your question see the following video: Internet videos are basically useless to deaf people, at least until they begin to add captioning (or transcripts). But thanks anyway. Brian

Some names I could decipher... Adam Steinacker (twice!!!) Jacob Wagner (it is no circumflex, it just is part of the letter "c", just a little bit elevated) Lorenz Nau? Adam Fuchs?

Hi Brian, To answer your question see the following video: <http://www.rootstelevision.com/players/player_dna3.php?bctid=1370845208&bclid=1415670061> In short, the answer is yes, it is important. Bobbi ----- Original Message ----- To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [HESSE] DNA With a surname of Urspruch or Kuhnhenn do you really need a DNA test? I mean really, what's the probability of anyone else on the planet having that surname who isn't related in some way? Unless you're looking to exclude adoptees. Brian

I would be interested in these records also. Ron Habel Vista, CA, USA **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=M ay51009AvgfooterNO62)

In the records of Nohfelden Oldenburg, there is a record of the Johann Philipp LÄSSIG/LESSIG family that indicates he is from "Goddelsheim im Waldeckischen." The LDS Family History Library catalog only has church records from 1857-1870 for Goddelsheim in Waldeck. However there is an OFB for Goddelsheim by Eckhard Schmidt that indicates there are records from 1646. Where did Herr Eckhard Schmidt get his information? Are the earlier records for Goddelsheim in another village's records? Are the records only in an archive? Is it required to hire a researcher to obtain these records? Fred H Held ____________________________________________________________ Click now for prescreened plumbing contractors. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYePbj59eK9LztrWIxsY34LbcyiHLPuqpnvFmAuPo9t8tcIXKjk9Sg/

Have a few names posted at http://newhamburg.org/ads/1.html Unable to discern these few. They should all be German names. Although #3 is awkward because there was a Ruiz family in the area 25 years later and it does look very much like it starts with Rui. Although I'm thinking #4 is Jacob Wagner, I don't understand the circumflex above the middle of Jacob Any help always appreciated JK

http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=1564&sssdmh=dm13.201044&o_iid=38911&o_lid=38911 A valuable research tool but somewhat difficult to utilize if you are not a German-speaker. :-) Don

Hi Ron, Where do your Zacher people come from? Bobbi ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: [HESSE] DNA > Greetings, Looking for DNA participants for the following surnames: > KUHNHENN, ZACHER (ZOCHER) Münden and Goddelsheim, Waldeck > VESPER and URSPRUCH > > Ron HABEL (HEBEL) (Rheinland-Pfalz) > Vista, CA, USA > > > **************Big savings on Dell’s most popular laptops. Now starting at > $449! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222382499x1201454962/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.22/2105 - Release Date: 05/08/09 11:43:00

On Fri, May 8, 2009 8:52 am, D.L. MacLaughlan-Dumes wrote: > > On May 7, 2009, at 6:42 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> With a surname of Urspruch or Kuhnhenn do you really need a DNA >> test? I >> mean really, what's the probability of anyone else on the planet >> having >> that surname who isn't related in some way? Unless you're looking to >> exclude adoptees. > > If an uncommon surname is derived from a place name, for instance, you > could have unrelated descendants of that region who share it. Not from I didn't say you couldn't be unrelated, just that the probability is very low with such rare surnames. > Hesse but it's an illustrative example: my husband's surname was > Dumesh in the Russian Empire (now Dumes). He discovered a Dumesh > individual whose great-grandfather lived next door to his own great- > grandfather in the same tiny village, shared the same surname, both > enumerated in the 1897 census. He and the supposed cousin took a DNA > test via FTDNA. The results showed that they were from completely > different haplogroups, or genetic groups, and their lines couldn't Unusual, but perhaps there was an adoption somewhere in there. I would expect people with surnames from a tiny hamlet to be in different haplogroups. Patronymic societies being the exception. Many Scandinavian areas would add a farmname to the name and this would change if you changed farms. Perhaps this was done in Russia also. Not so much in Hesse. Although not unknown in Hesse. Husbands have been known to take a wife's surname to claim the inheritance of a wife. > A little closer to home, my Jatho ancestors lived in both Hesse and > Hannover. Jatho is a rare surname. There are at least two families > with this surname in the same small farming town who can't be > connected by paperwork going back nearly 400 years. They appear to be > separate, though if we could find a descendant from the other family I would probably not make that conclusion. If you had six hundred years then I would agree, but four hundred just isn't long enough to exclude them as family. Not without proof. > it might be revealing to see whether our DNA connects us further back > in time. I'm not one hundred percent behind the idea of linking via DNA. I think it has more limits than what people suppose. I'm not entirely sure we're at that point where we can be so certain of our skill at interpreting DNA. It certainly has it's uses. DNA tests do not analyze the entire string, only the portions that are "believed" to be the most relevant. There are likely mechanisms in DNA that we still don't understand. The fact that cloning is so hard is a testimonial to that lack of understanding. Not to mention the whole tin-foil hat, creepy government possible abuses, and just plain creepiness of having your DNA fingerprint stored in some massive worldwide database aspect. But then I get a creepy feeling driving past those traffic cameras. It's got 1984 written all over it. Brian

On May 7, 2009, at 6:42 PM, [email protected] wrote: > With a surname of Urspruch or Kuhnhenn do you really need a DNA > test? I > mean really, what's the probability of anyone else on the planet > having > that surname who isn't related in some way? Unless you're looking to > exclude adoptees. If an uncommon surname is derived from a place name, for instance, you could have unrelated descendants of that region who share it. Not from Hesse but it's an illustrative example: my husband's surname was Dumesh in the Russian Empire (now Dumes). He discovered a Dumesh individual whose great-grandfather lived next door to his own great- grandfather in the same tiny village, shared the same surname, both enumerated in the 1897 census. He and the supposed cousin took a DNA test via FTDNA. The results showed that they were from completely different haplogroups, or genetic groups, and their lines couldn't have been related for at least 10,000 years, long before the existence of paperwork or surnames. A little closer to home, my Jatho ancestors lived in both Hesse and Hannover. Jatho is a rare surname. There are at least two families with this surname in the same small farming town who can't be connected by paperwork going back nearly 400 years. They appear to be separate, though if we could find a descendant from the other family it might be revealing to see whether our DNA connects us further back in time. DNA can still be a useful tool for determining connectivity, even with rare surnames. Regards, Debra MacLaughlan-Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage

With a surname of Urspruch or Kuhnhenn do you really need a DNA test? I mean really, what's the probability of anyone else on the planet having that surname who isn't related in some way? Unless you're looking to exclude adoptees. Brian On Thu, May 7, 2009 7:10 pm, [email protected] wrote: > Greetings, Looking for DNA participants for the following surnames: > KUHNHENN, ZACHER (ZOCHER) MÃŒnden and Goddelsheim, Waldeck > VESPER and URSPRUCH > > Ron HABEL (HEBEL) (Rheinland-Pfalz) > Vista, CA, USA > > > **************Big savings on Dellâ&#65533;&#65533;s most popular laptops. Now starting > at > $449! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222382499x1201454962/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings, Looking for DNA participants for the following surnames: KUHNHENN, ZACHER (ZOCHER) Münden and Goddelsheim, Waldeck VESPER and URSPRUCH Ron HABEL (HEBEL) (Rheinland-Pfalz) Vista, CA, USA **************Big savings on Dell’s most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222382499x1201454962/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg)