THE FOLLOWING IS A SPEECH BY THE SENATOR FROM ARIZONA -- JOHN McCAIN THIS CERTAINLY HAS MADE AN IMPACT ON ME..........HOPE YOU AGREE. As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War.  In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement, two or three to a cell.  In 1971, the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room.  This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home. One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian.  Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama.  He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old.  At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy.  He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School.  Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967.  Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this countermand our military provide for people who want to work and want to succeed. As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home.  In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing.  Mike got himself a bamboo needle.  Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed it on the inside of his shirt.  Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance.  I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event. One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it.  That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours.  Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in.  We cleaned him up as well as we could.  The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept.  Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room.  As said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian.  He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag.  He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better.  He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to pledge allegiance to our flag and our country. So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world.  You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”   And can you believe the people out there who are trying to destroy this simple little statement that means so much to so many? If you agree that this is important, please PASS THIS ON!

You can check if this story is TRUE by clicking on the links below. Jim <A HREF="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/mccain.htm">http://www.snopes.com/rumors/mccain.htm</A> <A HREF="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/mccain.htm">Click here: Urban Legends Reference Pages: Rumors of War (John McCain)</A>

Hi Ethel and Ruby, I dont know if you can beat me or not. When I get back from Detroit, I am leaving Wednesday for about 6 days. Both of you get written permission from your spouses and I will drive you to Mississippi and we can enter the contest. Love U Jim

I don't know how many of you read the Clarksburg, WV paper on line or have been near the Clarksburg Harrison Public Library on Pike Street. Right across the street was the Elks Club which was over 100 years old and Saturday it burned and will have to be demolished. The Elks had moved out of the building sometime ago and it was empty. Ruby Casto

Hi Ethel, I'm sure I would be the winner in that contest without even trying. Ruby

I received this from another list. Ethel This came this morning. I'm thinking of entering :-) *********************************************************** MISSING LINKS: A Magazine for Genealogists Vol. 7, No. 41, 13 October 2002 Circulation: 17,707+ http://www.petuniapress.com/ (c) 2001-2002 Julia M. Case Editor-at-Fault: Julia M. Case juliecase@prodigy.net THE GENEAHOLIC OLYMPICS by H. David Morrow FuzzyGem@worldnet.att.net It is time to begin setting up the Geneaholic Olympic Games, to be held next year in the city/county library (and parking lot) in Alligator, Mississippi. Entry fees and dates will be announced later. Corporate sponsors are, so far: Microsoft DOS, Penmanship Society International, Vital Record Holders International, and Association of Owners of Out-of-Order Copy Machines. Television coverage is expected. The Geneaholic Olympics will consist of six events: Event #1--Hitting the Wall. This contest pits geneaholics against each other to see who can hit the wall the hardest for the longest amount of time until they give up. After weeding out the dilettantes, those who give up easily or who get help from total strangers, the contestants start from 100 yards away and run as fast as possible into a brick wall. The wall has electronic sensors which objectively measure the force of the impact; this is multiplied by the contender's speed and that total is further multiplied by the number of attempts to break through the wall. The entire amount is divided by 1,000 relating to the average geneaholic's predicament of having a thousand people whose relationship hangs on finding a single document from 100 years (yards) ago. Judges award extra thousandths of a point depending upon the number of different places each athlete hits the same wall. Event #2--The Paper Pile Slalom. This event requires each competitor to run through piles of paper to get to a ringing telephone. After passing every tenth pile (simulating census years), a major change in direction is required. Because it is impossible to do this without spilling some of the piles, scores are determined by subtracting the number of spilled papers from the speed to the phone in hundredths of a second. Instead of a medal, the winner receives a ten-year supply of three-ring binders; second place gets a painted hole puncher. Event #3--Naming the Relative. Each entrant submits his or her longest line prior to the contest. All names are entered into a computer which selects three names at random. The winner is that person who can immediately identify the three people chosen by the computer and state their relationship in formal terms: for example, 32nd cousin, 16 times removed. Extra points are awarded to those who can state why each relative brought shame to the line (horse thief, drunkard, teller of bad jokes, etc.). Event #4--Deciphering Census Records. This contest is totally subjective. Each participant will be given a full page of the 1890 census and be required to correctly interpret everything on the page. Judges will score on the basis of accuracy and ability to glean information from 110 year old illegible handwriting. (See note on Judges.) Event #5--Family Photograph Analysis. Using 20 photographs (ca. 1910) only, each entrant must connect the individuals, state relationships and work out the following: occupation of head of household; occupation of fathers of husband and wife; and number of cousins the wife has (shown and not shown in the photographs). Extraneous photos, from unrelated families, may be included in the original set just to spice up the contest. Event #6--Unfreezing Computers while Remaining Connected. Each Contestant will be seated in a room in front of a computer that is connected to a genealogy Web site. The mouse will not move the cursor; Control-Alternate-Delete will have no effect; extraneous noises will include a baby crying, phone ringing, and a whistling tea kettle. In order to win, competitors must print out the NEXT page of the site, diaper the baby, answer the phone, and make a glass of iced tea without breaking the connection to the site. For audience information: previous winners of this event have done all the tasks in 13.625894 minutes. NOTES: It is possible for one person to win all events. In this case, he or she will be declared Olympic Geneaholic Champion and will be pictured on the cover of the next LDS Bulletin. Judged events will have 19 judges with no more than six from foreign countries. All scores will be computerized using a program designed by the French and Russians. Space reservations can be made only by calling area code 4756/ 5555-98213. Please do NOT call collect. Previously published in MISSING LINKS, Vol. 7, No. 41, 13 October 2002 http://www.petuniapress.com

While this debate that we are having is not about genealogy but it does deal with our ancestors and the decisions they made for us years ago. The decision they made was to announce FREEDOM for each of us and our progeny with the faith the those that followed would have the courage to support any actions necessary to keep this country free. It doesn't take a PhD to see that we are at War with the radical Islamics throughout the world. If we don't take them on their turf, we will have to do it here and stay within our borders. I don't want to send anyone to War but I served my time and took my risks at the decisions of my elders who understood more than I did. Unfortunately, that is the way life is in this country. I believe that our elders only did what was best in support of this idea of freedom. What we do, we do in the best interest of our children and grandchildren. If any of them are killed, I will cry and remember them like I do my friends that died in Korea, Viet Nam and just protecting us during the idle times. Remember what John Stuart Mill said "War is not the ugliest of things. The ugliest of things is the man who thinks nothing is worth fighting or dying for and lets better and braver than himself protect him." Yes, West Virginia has always had the highest number of casualties since WWII. Is it because we were poor and couldn't avoid the draft or is it because we were taught to love this country for what it was? I think it was both but more the latter. Tom Keenan ----- Original Message ----- From: "IDUNLEVY" <idunlevy@eohio.net> To: <HCGS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 11:17 AM Subject: [HCGS] WAR??? > I always wonder, when these people are in favor of war, if they are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters or grandchildren. I have a suggestion that we have a draft and send the children of those people who got out of going to Viet Nam. For instance, the children of all those people in the government. > > Did any of you know that there were more of West Virginia's children killed in Viet Nam than any other state in the Union? > > Irene Dunlevy > > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

FRA Slams DOD on Concurrent Receipt Issue In response to top DOD manpower officials publicly accusing disabled military retirees of being greedy "double dippers," FRA released a press statement challenging their campaign to erase concurrent receipt language from the FY 2003 Bob Stump National Defense Authorization Act. Officials are quoted in news articles condemning concurrent receipt as receiving two payments for the same service, and referencing misleading information in an attempt to portray military retirees as adequately compensated and greedy. FRA National Executive Secretary Joe Barnes pointed to the average retirement pay of the military's enlisted population as proof there was little if any greed connected with this issue. Two-thirds of the military retirees on Defense's payroll are enlisted, and the majority of enlisted retirees as of 30 September 2000 received less than the Federal government's 1999 poverty level for three persons. Further, in a recent survey conducted on FRA's website, very few enlisted retirees converted their GI insurance because of the high tariff; the majority believe the Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA) will provide them with a burial allowance which is not accurate; and more retirees than not are enrolled in the military's survival benefit program at minimum levels due to inadequate financial resources. FRA's press release can be viewed in its entirety on the Association's web site at http://www.fra.org/pr/10-08-02-nes-dod.html. Florida Congressman Michael Bilirakis also responded to DOD's public accusations stating, "Since I first began working on this issue, I have heard from thousands of disabled retirees who are negatively impacted by the current offset and are struggling to get by each month. Some of these retirees have been forced to undertake drastic measures, such as selling their homes, in order to meet their monthly obligations. For many of them, their retired pay amounts to less than $1,000 per month. In many of these cases, the amount of the VA offset exceeds the retiree's total retired pay, meaning the individual receives none of the retired pay from the Department of Defense that they have rightfully earned. Even with their VA disability compensation, most of these individuals had total monthly incomes of $1,000 or less, and I seriously doubt that any of these retirees would consider themselves `doing well financially.'" Congressman Bilirakis' letter can also be viewed on FRA's web site at http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/107th-congress/107th-letters/bili rakis-abell-ltr.html. FRA urges its Shipmates to continue sending correspondence to the White House, by visiting the "Action Center" on the Association's web site at www.fra.org. To send a prepared message, type in your zip code under the "Elected Officials" heading and then click "President: Concurrent Receipt VETO Threat."

Thank you very much for this information

Tom - That was well written - thank you! I totally agree. Kathryn

ARE YOU WILLING TO SEND YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN? I WOULD RATHER DIE MYSELF. I'VE SEEN ENOUGH OF WAR IN MY LIFETIME. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise Righman" <lrighman@westvirginia.net> To: <HCGS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [HCGS] WAR??? > I don't think any one wants war but you can not stand back and sacrifice our love ones on the home front also. If our home is attack we must do what he can to defeat the attacker. and most will give their lives for our family and love one. So we must do what is nessary to keep our country safe and let > no more lives be given as it was in Sept. 11. most of our people are brave and will go willing to defend this country. Of course there is complainers and ones that are cowards and wouldn't go but of course all is afraid even when they are being brave. I would rather keep the war abroad then here on the > home fount and with sneak attack. I think it is being handle as best as it can be. No one want war and our leaders don't either. but they are bravely doing what they must. Louise Righman > > IDUNLEVY wrote: > > > I always wonder, when these people are in favor of war, if they are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters or grandchildren. I have a suggestion that we have a draft and send the children of those people who got out of going to Viet Nam. For instance, the children of all those people in the government. > > > > Did any of you know that there were more of West Virginia's children killed in Viet Nam than any other state in the Union? > > > > Irene Dunlevy > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

I don't think any one wants war but you can not stand back and sacrifice our love ones on the home front also. If our home is attack we must do what he can to defeat the attacker. and most will give their lives for our family and love one. So we must do what is nessary to keep our country safe and let no more lives be given as it was in Sept. 11. most of our people are brave and will go willing to defend this country. Of course there is complainers and ones that are cowards and wouldn't go but of course all is afraid even when they are being brave. I would rather keep the war abroad then here on the home fount and with sneak attack. I think it is being handle as best as it can be. No one want war and our leaders don't either. but they are bravely doing what they must. Louise Righman IDUNLEVY wrote: > I always wonder, when these people are in favor of war, if they are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters or grandchildren. I have a suggestion that we have a draft and send the children of those people who got out of going to Viet Nam. For instance, the children of all those people in the government. > > Did any of you know that there were more of West Virginia's children killed in Viet Nam than any other state in the Union? > > Irene Dunlevy > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

After visiting Dachau in 1978 where the Jews have put "Never Again" in four languages, I promised myself that I would "Never" be taken in cold blood without resisting. To this end I support the Bill of Rights and especially the Second Amendment to provide myself the ability to prevent my being taken in cold blood. In most cases, I am always ready to defend myself again intruder or terrorist. I consider it better to go down fighting than to cower like a beaten dog. Tom Keenan ----- Original Message ----- From: <LMJenks@aol.com> To: <HCGS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: [HCGS] DO NOT FORGET > TO ALL FRIEND & FAMILY: > > I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF MESSAGES THAT I SEND OUT HAVE A > RELATIVELY LOW IMPORTANCE LEVEL.. IT MAY NOT APPEAR TO BE SO, BUT THE > FOLLOWING MESSAGE HAS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF IMPORT -- AT LEAST IN MY OPINION! > -------------- LEE > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------------------------------ > "DO NOT FORGET" > > I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why > didn't the Jews fight back?" > > Now I know why. > > I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why > weren't we prepared?" > > Now I know why. > > Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil > people. > > On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves > to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did > not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors. > > On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many > Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the > dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel > want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the > rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to > understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations > have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying > devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers. > > I will not be manipulated. > > I will not pretend to understand. > > I will not forget. > > I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick > our country when it was vulnerable and hurting. > > I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's > address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about > him, he is still our president." > > I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President > Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and > commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington." > > And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't > informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor > should they be expected -- to show deference." > > I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack > on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America. > > I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and > their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications > equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability > to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem > communications. > > I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those > perfected by the previous administration. > > I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the > silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport. > > I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit > the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities. > > I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American > war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, > sailors and Marines. > > I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose > reassurance over reality. > > I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor > Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the > innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone > doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it? > > There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no > point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be > defeated by it. And defeat it we must!" > > I will force myself to: > > ------hear the weeping > ------feel the helplessness > ------imagine the terror > ------sense the panic > ------smell the burning flesh > ------experience the loss > ------remember the hatred. > > I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where > did they find the courage?" > > Now I know. > > We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living. > > -- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.) > Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine. > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

I always wonder, when these people are in favor of war, if they are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters or grandchildren. I have a suggestion that we have a draft and send the children of those people who got out of going to Viet Nam. For instance, the children of all those people in the government. Did any of you know that there were more of West Virginia's children killed in Viet Nam than any other state in the Union? Irene Dunlevy

better yet, send the politicians to the front line.........that would solve a lot of ALL our problems.... grin seems to me that they should make some kind of sacrifice for all that money they get on retirement etc and those who "serve" in the military and risk all, get nothing compared to what they get......they'll get more than 100,000 a year on retirement....we'll be glad to see 50,000 from the same government.....and who is supposed to be serving whom...???????? IDUNLEVY wrote: > I always wonder, when these people are in favor of war, if they are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters or grandchildren. I have a suggestion that we have a draft and send the children of those people who got out of going to Viet Nam. For instance, the children of all those people in the government. > > Did any of you know that there were more of West Virginia's children killed in Viet Nam than any other state in the Union? > > Irene Dunlevy > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Lee and Tom, Thank both of you for your postings. As for "unhappy" people I would much rather see whatever anyone wants to put on for the enjoyment of others than to have nothing on our site. I have yet to see very much "pure Genealogy" posted. Again, thanks Ethel LMJenks@aol.com wrote: > > No way to put those feelings and thoughts any better than you just did, Tom. > I believe that's why the 2nd Amendment was written. > > Freedom is not free -- indeed! > > Lee Roland Jenkins > > P.S. For those who get unhappy when messages are not "pure" genealogy, there > is an important point here: Our ancestors -- the ones we try so hard to > study -- probably had a much better understanding of FREEDOM and the need to > fight for it than we have. They were part of that fight! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

No way to put those feelings and thoughts any better than you just did, Tom. I believe that's why the 2nd Amendment was written. Freedom is not free -- indeed! Lee Roland Jenkins P.S. For those who get unhappy when messages are not "pure" genealogy, there is an important point here: Our ancestors -- the ones we try so hard to study -- probably had a much better understanding of FREEDOM and the need to fight for it than we have. They were part of that fight!

Lee - should be required reading for every American. Thanks, Kathryn

TO ALL FRIEND & FAMILY: I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF MESSAGES THAT I SEND OUT HAVE A RELATIVELY LOW IMPORTANCE LEVEL.. IT MAY NOT APPEAR TO BE SO, BUT THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE HAS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF IMPORT -- AT LEAST IN MY OPINION! -------------- LEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ "DO NOT FORGET" I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?" Now I know why. I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?" Now I know why. Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people. On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors. On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers. I will not be manipulated. I will not pretend to understand. I will not forget. I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting. I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president." I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington." And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference." I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America. I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications. I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration. I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport. I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities. I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines. I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality. I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it? There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!" I will force myself to: ------hear the weeping ------feel the helplessness ------imagine the terror ------sense the panic ------smell the burning flesh ------experience the loss ------remember the hatred. I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?" Now I know. We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living. -- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.) Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

Irene, First proof has to be determined because Charles McIntire was drafted into the Virginia Continental Line on March 1778. At this time he would have been over 50 if he was born 1720 - 1724 as most reports indicate. I have copies of the muster and pay roll records for Charles McIntire that served in the Virginia Continental Line and will provide you copies of the if interested. Second, Elender Evans Alexander was the wife of Walter Alexander of Maryland who died about August 1778 and she remarried in 1782. Widow Elender Evans Alexander was not the wife of Charles McIntire since he was married to an Elender before 1772 where she gives consent for Charles to sell land. Third, the Charles McIntire that served in the Virginia Navy on the galley "Hero" served a full three years and was entitled to land bounty. His service was from June 1776 to July 1779 according to Library of Virginia records. Bob Sapp