Steve and all, It appears to me that this DNA project needs to be widened to include Hayden sounding names still living in Germany and Holland etc; this gives a chance that some Haydens in the U.S. ancestors may have come from Europe and not England or Ireland. The R1 haplogroups and to a lesser extent I, are very common in Western Europe, these groups go back such a long way before surnames, that haplogroups can only be used as a guide to different versions of Hayden spelling at the very best. Keep going, the more people tested the clearer the picture will become. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "shayden" <shayden@columbus.rr.com> To: <hayden@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > George, > > > > If you look at the Hayden Project results, you will see most Haydens > belong > to haplogroup R1b (with the exception of 1 J1 Irish Hayden). The Hadens > are > all haplogroup I. You are haplogroup I1a. There is also a Haydon Project > whose members are all haplogroup J2. What this means is there is > essentially > no chance for a match with any of the existing Hayden/ Haden/ Hyden/ > Haydon > Project members. > > > > There is always the possibility of a name change. For example, we have a > Keys in the Hayden Project who we have confirmed are Haydens. On you > results > page, you have restricted your matches to project members resulting in no > matches as expected. I opened up to include matches in the entire > FamilyTreeDNA database. Now there are 90 exact matches at 12 markers and > two > with a genetic distance of 2 at 25 markers. Many of the exact matches have > only 12 marker results. The difficulty with 12 markers is it can disprove > a > connection but rarely confirm one. Nevertheless, you might look at the 12 > marker matches and see if any of the surnames connects to your family. > > > > Just a thought but a possible avenue of research. > > > > Steve Hayden > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of partners@houseofhayden.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:33 AM > To: hayden@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > > > > Steve, > > > > Every time you update the list I check it and also every once in a while I > > take a look at it, still ungrouped. Still in limbo. > > > > Tony, > > > > Having served over 20 years in the Marines I know just what you mean with > > the name spelling, I have met people from all over the world with a lot if > > different ways of spelling their name. I don't really care who or where my > > family came from, the best, the middle or the worst, I just wanted to find > > out where and who. > > > >>From the time I was about 16 years old I was told that I was Irish, > Scottish > > and British. Then when I started doing the family tree thing I found out > > about the DNA project. I thought by doing it I could make sure where my > > family came from, wrong. At this time I still do not connect to anyone. > SO, > > I still know just as much as I did before I started all this family tree > > thing. > > > > I did see the Hayden's all the way back to the William de Cardon that you > > are talking about. > > > > George J. Hayden > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > > Behalf Of A. H. Burgess > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:07 AM > > To: hayden@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > > > > Steve and all Haydens, > > DNA is the only way to go forward. > > > > I feel that there have been a lot of spelling changes as people moved away > > from the family home land [or area] English Parish records show this, > > because people could not read and verify their name. A new Priest from > > another area often had problems understanding accents. > > Remember before the railways, few people travelled far, and even in a > small > > country as England the dialect and some word meanings could change every > 50 > > miles. > > > > Early arrivals in America also faced spelling changes; especially names > > sounding like Hayden from countries like Germany, Holland as well as > Ireland > > > > with the O'Heiden versions. > > There are a great many of these Hyden, Hydon. > > > > Another problem is many people are trying to connect to the best and > > earliest recorded Heydon of Norfolk. These are very certainly Normans who > > came over in 1066, and married into many other Norman families. Normans > > were not French, they had only arrived in Normandy from the Denmark area > > some 200 years before 1066. > > Heydon is not a Normandy surname, as surnames then only existed in a few > of > > the most senior families. Some of you will remember my theories that a > > William de Cardon had a son between 1090 and 1100 when will lived in > Heydon, > > > > Essex and was junior to Geoff de Mandeville; a son often took a "surname" > > from place he lived, so called himself "de Heydon". The Norfolk "Heydon > > place" in 1086 Domesday Book had another name, so it seems to me that > > property in Norfolk was obtained as a marriage settlement when Katherine > de > > Heydon married into the wealthy de Warren family in 1128. > > These are assumptions based on available historical records, as the > Norfolk > > line records does not start until late 1100's. > > Further comments welcome. > > > > Regards > > Tony Burgess > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HAYDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Good idea, Tony. The Hayden Project already includes the following variants: Hadden, Haddon, Haden, Haiden, Haydon, Heydon & Hyden. That means if you search on any of these variants in the FamilyTreeDNA database, the results will include the Hayden Project. Can anyone advise other variants of the name to add. Regards, Steve Hayden -----Original Message----- From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of A. H. Burgess Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:45 PM To: hayden@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project Steve and all, It appears to me that this DNA project needs to be widened to include Hayden sounding names still living in Germany and Holland etc; this gives a chance that some Haydens in the U.S. ancestors may have come from Europe and not England or Ireland. The R1 haplogroups and to a lesser extent I, are very common in Western Europe, these groups go back such a long way before surnames, that haplogroups can only be used as a guide to different versions of Hayden spelling at the very best. Keep going, the more people tested the clearer the picture will become. Regards Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "shayden" <shayden@columbus.rr.com> To: <hayden@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > George, > > > > If you look at the Hayden Project results, you will see most Haydens > belong > to haplogroup R1b (with the exception of 1 J1 Irish Hayden). The Hadens > are > all haplogroup I. You are haplogroup I1a. There is also a Haydon Project > whose members are all haplogroup J2. What this means is there is > essentially > no chance for a match with any of the existing Hayden/ Haden/ Hyden/ > Haydon > Project members. > > > > There is always the possibility of a name change. For example, we have a > Keys in the Hayden Project who we have confirmed are Haydens. On you > results > page, you have restricted your matches to project members resulting in no > matches as expected. I opened up to include matches in the entire > FamilyTreeDNA database. Now there are 90 exact matches at 12 markers and > two > with a genetic distance of 2 at 25 markers. Many of the exact matches have > only 12 marker results. The difficulty with 12 markers is it can disprove > a > connection but rarely confirm one. Nevertheless, you might look at the 12 > marker matches and see if any of the surnames connects to your family. > > > > Just a thought but a possible avenue of research. > > > > Steve Hayden > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of partners@houseofhayden.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:33 AM > To: hayden@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > > > > Steve, > > > > Every time you update the list I check it and also every once in a while I > > take a look at it, still ungrouped. Still in limbo. > > > > Tony, > > > > Having served over 20 years in the Marines I know just what you mean with > > the name spelling, I have met people from all over the world with a lot if > > different ways of spelling their name. I don't really care who or where my > > family came from, the best, the middle or the worst, I just wanted to find > > out where and who. > > > >>From the time I was about 16 years old I was told that I was Irish, > Scottish > > and British. Then when I started doing the family tree thing I found out > > about the DNA project. I thought by doing it I could make sure where my > > family came from, wrong. At this time I still do not connect to anyone. > SO, > > I still know just as much as I did before I started all this family tree > > thing. > > > > I did see the Hayden's all the way back to the William de Cardon that you > > are talking about. > > > > George J. Hayden > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > > Behalf Of A. H. Burgess > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:07 AM > > To: hayden@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project > > > > Steve and all Haydens, > > DNA is the only way to go forward. > > > > I feel that there have been a lot of spelling changes as people moved away > > from the family home land [or area] English Parish records show this, > > because people could not read and verify their name. A new Priest from > > another area often had problems understanding accents. > > Remember before the railways, few people travelled far, and even in a > small > > country as England the dialect and some word meanings could change every > 50 > > miles. > > > > Early arrivals in America also faced spelling changes; especially names > > sounding like Hayden from countries like Germany, Holland as well as > Ireland > > > > with the O'Heiden versions. > > There are a great many of these Hyden, Hydon. > > > > Another problem is many people are trying to connect to the best and > > earliest recorded Heydon of Norfolk. These are very certainly Normans who > > came over in 1066, and married into many other Norman families. Normans > > were not French, they had only arrived in Normandy from the Denmark area > > some 200 years before 1066. > > Heydon is not a Normandy surname, as surnames then only existed in a few > of > > the most senior families. Some of you will remember my theories that a > > William de Cardon had a son between 1090 and 1100 when will lived in > Heydon, > > > > Essex and was junior to Geoff de Mandeville; a son often took a "surname" > > from place he lived, so called himself "de Heydon". The Norfolk "Heydon > > place" in 1086 Domesday Book had another name, so it seems to me that > > property in Norfolk was obtained as a marriage settlement when Katherine > de > > Heydon married into the wealthy de Warren family in 1128. > > These are assumptions based on available historical records, as the > Norfolk > > line records does not start until late 1100's. > > Further comments welcome. > > > > Regards > > Tony Burgess > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HAYDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAYDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 7:44 AM -0400 9/6/07, steve hayden wrote: > >The Hayden Project already includes the following variants: Hadden, Haddon, >Haden, Haiden, Haydon, Heydon & Hyden. That means if you search on any of >these variants in the FamilyTreeDNA database, the results will include the >Hayden Project. > >Can anyone advise other variants of the name to add. > I have documented the transformation of HEATON into HAYDEN in my line, so I'd advise including HEATON as well. -- Jeff Hecht, science & technology writer jeff@jeffhecht.com http://www.jeffhecht.com 525 Auburn St., Auburndale, MA 02466 USA tel. 617-965-3834

Thanks, Jeff. Done. -----Original Message----- From: hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hayden-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hecht Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:31 AM To: hayden@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HAYDEN] Hayden List? and DNA project At 7:44 AM -0400 9/6/07, steve hayden wrote: > >The Hayden Project already includes the following variants: Hadden, Haddon, >Haden, Haiden, Haydon, Heydon & Hyden. That means if you search on any of >these variants in the FamilyTreeDNA database, the results will include the >Hayden Project. > >Can anyone advise other variants of the name to add. > I have documented the transformation of HEATON into HAYDEN in my line, so I'd advise including HEATON as well. -- Jeff Hecht, science & technology writer jeff@jeffhecht.com http://www.jeffhecht.com 525 Auburn St., Auburndale, MA 02466 USA tel. 617-965-3834 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAYDEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message