-----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of William W. Hatcher Sr. Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:40 PM To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Subject: [HATCHER] second try, guess map blocked everything? Nel, help me out on a few of the items you listed for clarification. You stated "We know EdgefieldCo is the only place Tom/Wilmoth were known to have lived." I am having some problems with the locations, this we think we know and have proof of by records: <P.10 South Carolina, Royal Grants, Vol. 15. p. 580. South Carolina Dept. of Archives and History, Columbia, S.C. Grant to Thomas Hatcher for 250 acres in Berkeley County in the fork between Broad and Saludy River on a small branch of Tyger River called Peters Creek, bounding N.E. & N.W. by part on land of Capt. Samuel Anbrey and part vacant, S.E. part on land said to be laid out for Isaac Fitchlin and part vacant, other sides vacant land. 13 July 1770.P.11 South Carolina Memorials, Vol. 10, p. 196, South Carolina Dept. of Archives and History, Columbia, S.C.> Now Berkeley County was at one time was quite large, but it was discontinued in 1769, a year before the above grant. OLD BERKELEY COUNTY (1683 - 1769) Created: 1683, discontinued 1769 One of the original "counties" created by the Crown for administrative purposes, this Berkeley County centered around Charleston and extended from the Stono River on the south to Seewee Creek (modern Awendaw Creek) on the north. See map above (1710) for modern counties represented in this area. NOTE: All records for this area were filed in Charleston and this is NOT modern Berkeley County. (Present day Berkeley County is on the coast) Now Peters Creek is nowhere near Edgefield County looking at my early SC map and using the point you sent. Also notice the town in the bottom left hand corner of the map, “Reuben” humm. I do think this is the right Peters Creek since it lies in the fork between the Saluda and Broad Rivers very close to the Tyger River as the record stated. If this is the right location, it is a long ways from GA, not just across the river as you stated? And it is a full two counties over from Edgefield… We know they were in Edgefield County from this: Wilmoth is found in the 1790 EdgefieldCo, SC census with 2 sons, 1 16+, 1 0-16. The importance of location: Little river cuts east GA into north and south. All of Maj John's sibs as on our file remained in north EdgefieldCo, SC, lived north of the river in Elbert/LincolnCo, or in WarrenCo, GA, Now this one you are going to have to expain a little, Little River according to the maps I have show it as a little short river just across the GA line from Lincoln and Elbert Counties running north and south and runs into the Savannah River on the SC side long before Columbia county GA. Or are you referring to the Little River on the GA side that is the boundary for Columbia County GA? Now, just as a side note. Tom/Wilm was a Capt in 1778 based on the pens app of a Richard Kirkpatrick. Yet I've no memory of ever seeing Tom listed on any RW "list" (official or otherwise) as a veteran and patriot. But just on the one record we have, it would seem to me the descendants of Tom should be eligible for DAR/SAR. I'm rather curious to know how/why he failed to get into the official records........ Now I am having a problem with this one as well, if he was indeed a Capt as stated in the Royal Grants record, then why can’t I find the grant listed anywhere or find a RW record for him? All insight and thoughts much appreciated, William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. 31061 Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! -----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of nelhatch Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:11 AM To: HATCHERLIST Subject: [HATCHER] Maj John - the reasoning HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood W W, There is no defining item or record. It is all a series of connecting dots based on multiple factors including feasability, location, time frame, documents, and logical reasoning. We will start with what we know and believe. We agreed we have no record, no dots, no nothing to connect John or Wm/Pris, etc to Robert of Richmond. We know Capt Ben of EdgefieldCo cannot be their father - a well-documented family. We are left to work with the only remaining Hatcher in the area - Tom/Wilmoth. The key was Dempsey's presence at the 1826 estate sale in BibbCo, GA, surrounded by Tharp family into which Elizabeth Hatcher, supposed dau of Maj John, married. Dempsey was not migrating thru, he was not living 10-20-30m away. He was a neighbor attending and buying at a local estate sale. He was the son of Thomas Jr, s/o Tom/Wilm, who lived in SC on Turkey creek near the Savannah and across from LincolnCo, GA. Just a bit north is ElbertCo, home of Wm/Pris. We also know that Maj John's son, Henry, died in BibbCo 1823 and the sale of his estate was held at the home of Vincent Tharp. We now have tied Dempsey, Elizabeth, and Henry together in a circumstantial way (location and time frame) that we were never able to do with Robert. We have them in the same room. And that goes beyond coincidence. We go back to Tom/Wilmoth. A record proves they were married before 1761. Had there been proof they were married after 1757, the year of John's birth, they would not likely have been John's parents. So they are still eligible as parents. Wilmoth is found in the 1790 EdgefieldCo, SC census with 2 sons, 1 16+, 1 0-16. They are who I believe is Dempsey (uncle of young Dempsey) and James/Martha Tate, born c1773 and 1775 respectively. It is logical and reasonable to believe Wilmoth did not have just 2 children born 15+ yrs after she married. There is much room to slot in other children. Wm/Pris's pens app states "Moved from Virginia in 1764 with his father and settled in Richmond Co. Georgia, five miles below Augusta, from whence he removed to Edgefield Co. S.C. where he first entered service about June 1778 as a volunteer private of infantry...." We know EdgefieldCo is the only place Tom/Wilmoth were known to have lived. We know we can't place Robert in SC in that time frame. 1764 is also the year Anne Knibb Hatcher, mother of Tom/Wilm, disappeared from ChesterfieldCo, VA. She ends up in LaurensCo, SC not far from Peter's creek where Tom/Wilm lived. Tom was a Capt in 1778 under Major Simmons. Maj John, Wm/Pris and James/Tate (1812) all served in the military. We have a houseful of "army brats" in this family. This is simply another "dot" to define a family lifestyle. The importance of location: Little river cuts east GA into north and south. All of Maj John's sibs as on our file remained in north EdgefieldCo, SC, lived north of the river in Elbert/LincolnCo, or in WarrenCo, GA, (earlier home of Maj John.) Some are found later in WilkinsonCo where Maj John died. There are minor connections to Augusta, RichmondCo (south of the Little) for marriages or residency in their later years but none of these people lived there in their earlier years. We have all of this family grouped in one area of north GA/SC. There is no document declaring John to be Tom's son. There is no document declaring Wm/Pris to be Tom's son. And there likely never will be. And my memory may be failing me, but I'm not sure we have any document that proves Wm/Pris is John's brother. We have, I believe, only slim circumstantial evidence of both of them being present in WilkinsonCo, GA at one point in time. Yet these 2 have been accepted as brothers for eons. We can, thru many documents, directly or circumstantially, connect various kids of Tom/Wilm. This family is all tied together by the cumulative effect of both the direct, indirect and circumstantial evidence. When the documents are not there or do not exist, you must build your case on what you have using sound logic and reason. We cannot pull an imaginary father out of the heavens who never left a footprint on this earth. The only logical conclusion is that Tom was the father of all those currently attached to him for we have no other possible Hatchers to draw from. And I would have no problem having a professional genealogist analyze this tree on the proper analysis of the evidence and the conclusions I've drawn from that evidence. In summary, 1) Tom/Wilm were there with no other possible candidates. 2) Tom/Wilm reasonably had more children than just the 2 young boys. 3) Their circa marriage date makes them candidates. 4) Wm's pens app states they removed from Augusta, GA to SC. 5) Wm's family arrived in 1764, the same date Anne Knibb Hatcher, Tom's mother, removed from VA. 6) Tom/Wilm and all kids lived in the same general area of northern SC and GA. Now, just as a side note. Tom/Wilm was a Capt in 1778 based on the pens app of a Richard Kirkpatrick. Yet I've no memory of ever seeing Tom listed on any RW "list" (official or otherwise) as a veteran and patriot. But just on the one record we have, it would seem to me the descendants of Tom should be eligible for DAR/SAR. I'm rather curious to know how/why he failed to get into the official records........ Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. 31061  Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. 31061 Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM