This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DorisPetty87 Surnames: Helms - Kelly - Tidwell Classification: obituary Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.hatcher/1855/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Helms - Alvin A. (Al) Helms was born Sept. 17, 1931, in rural Jackson County, near Malone. Al graduated from Malone High School in 1951. He lettered in baseball and basketball and was a student leader. He graduated from Florida State University with a bachelor's degree in business management in 1955. Upon graduation from college, Al joined the W.T. Grant Company, where he managed several large stores in Florida, Alabama, Texas, Tennessee and Georgia. He opened and managed the Grant store in Milton where he made his home. The company went out of business in 1975. Al managed a restaurant, owned an IGA grocery store and a real estate firm at various times in Milton. For the last 12 years, he was a real estate broker at ERA Bill Wallace Realty. Al was an active member of the Christ United Methodist Church and enjoyed the fellowship of the church and the Milton community. He was a member of the Milton Kawanis Club. Al Helms is survived by Jeanie Kelly, his loving spouse of 13 years; a son, Randall Arris Helms (and Dee) of Grand Ridge; a stepson, Lee Kelly (and Elise) of Independence, Mo.; two grandchildren, Randy, Jr. (and Cori) and Jared; three great-grandchildren, Gabe, Cameron, and Kendall; a brother, Ted Helms (and Phyllis) of Tallahassee; two uncles, Houston Helms of Tallahassee, and Troy Tidwell of Marianna; and a loving extended family that he loved dearly. Visitation will be Saturday, May 24, 2008, from 10 a.m. until service at 11 a.m., at the Christ United Methodist Church, Milton. Interment will follow at Hickory Grove Cemetery in Malone. Note added by Doris Petty Alvin was the grandson of Mary Ocie Hatcher and Archie Tidwell of Jackson County, FL Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Nel, I ran across this article on SC Genealogy while reading the NEGHS Newletter today. I don't know if it will be any help to your SC Hatchers but I will pass it along. Greenwood County Library Obituary Index wwww.greenwoodcountylibrary.org/obits/index.html Greenwood County is located in western South Carolina. The city of Greenwood serves as its county seat. The Greenwood County Library maintains an Obituary Index on its website. The local newspapers from which the information comes are The Greenwood Journal (September 12, 1895–April 12, 1917) and The Greenwood Index (March 7, 1901–February 5, 1919), which became known as the Greenwood Index-Journal (February 6, 1919–present). The data in the index was abstracted from both obituaries and death notices. The obituary index is a work in progress. It includes data for about 30 years between 1895 and 2005. The years currently available are 1895–1907, 1917– 1918, 1920, 1945–1947, 1970–1973, 1976–1977, 2002, and 2004–2005. According to the website, no newspapers are available for 1906. Click on the year link to view the records. The records are in alphabetical order by last name. The data in individual records can include the following: full name of the deceased, age, dateline of the obituary, names of spouse(s) or other family members, and the dates of the newspaper issues in which the information appears. The lists are relatively short for the early years. For the larger files of later years, researchers can use the "Find" function under the Edit menu of the Internet browser to search the list by last name. Photocopies of obituaries and death notices can be ordered from the library for a small fee. If you do not have a complete death date, library staff will search through its microfilm for the information. The research fee is $25 per hour. South Carolina Department of Health www.scdhec.net/administration/vr/vrdi.htm Birth and death certificates were first required in South Carolina on January 1, 1915. South Carolina Death Indexes 1915-1957 are available from the South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control. To view the alphabetical indexes for the years 1915 through 1949 you must download the DjVu Image Viewer plug in and use Internet Explorer. Instructions are provided on the Death Indexes homepage. It should also be noted that the Death Indexes have special numeric codes to indicate sex, race, and age of the deceased. A key to these codes has been provided. The index is in digital format for the years 1950–1957. There are more than 2,000 records in this portion of the database. The data fields include the state code, certificate number, surname, first name, middle initial, suffix, sex, date of death, race, age, and county. Click on the green question mark to read the age code key. Good luck with your searching. Shirley Hatcher Ross -----Original Message----- From: nelhatch <nelhatch@hills.net> To: HATCHERLIST <hatcher@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, 15 May 2008 6:25 pm Subject: [HATCHER] SC research volunteers needed ATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com ALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Do we have any SC residents willing to fill out and submit research requests to he SCDAH? The request form is at http://www.state.sc.us/scdah/referenceform.htm I will provide the names and details of those we're searching for. You would be esponsible for communicating to me what they've found and what the cost will be or copies. After determining what we need (we may already have some of what hey find), you will then place the order and the HFGA will reimburse you for ll costs, including postage to mail everything to me. Anyone want to get on this list?? Thanks! el ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

"The reason this is being discussed right now is because the LDS has uploaded PA Death certs that are helping us sort out or confirm relationships for Pennsy Bob's family." And I thank you so very much for the help, Nel. Bob Hatcher Mountaintop, Pa. </HTML>

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Thanks, Shirley! I've not seen this one before. But the correct URL is http://www.greenwoodcountylibrary.org/obits/index.html Nel

I say we are having enough trouble with the one running amok now and for the past many years!! And I have been forced to drag out all my past research on the Hatcher/Thatcher situation. Will let you know if I find anything helpful. Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

In about 1985 while in the Navy I was hassled going through customs at Prestwick Airport in Scotland because my name was too much like "Thatcher", as in "Margaret Thatcher", apparently not very popular with the Scots. (It was the good-natured, "fun" kind of hassling you just can't get at airports these days.) Chuck

In a message dated 5/28/2008 4:13:33 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, hatchertg@sbcglobal.net writes: Hmmm. Maybe I'll change my name to Tom Thatcher so that in a couple hundred years new people will be scratching their heads. Or better yet, I'll have a son and name him Thatcher. Gotta go talk to the wife... Funny....! **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

This has been a big mess for a lot of years. Would be nice to really get this all sorted out but I am not hopeful! Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood And may I add, for those of you who may have missed this information, the search page for the LDS site is at http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1210350651050#p=0 While I've found and uploaded the Hatcher DCs from Philly, I have yet to search for some of our peripheral names. And I sure haven't searched for Thatcher either :-) Believe it or not, the earliest DC I found was for John Hatcher, bn c1760, died 1820. Not bad!!! Nel

>From what I've seen of other Hatchers disciplined in the Quaker MMs, I suspect "walking contrary to discipline" could perhaps be better phrased "laying contrary to discipline." ;-) Tom Hatcher (or THatcher?) ----- Original Message ----- From: BurnJi@aol.com To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [HATCHER] For our Quaker Hatchers.......... Anything is possible, I suppose, but the Hatcher/Thatcher story has been around for a long, long time, repeated from one generation to the next I suppose. The DNA test in 2006 seems to have just proved that the Thatchers in Bucks County matched each other but not the William Hatcher family. It could be possible that some Hatchers called themselves Thatcher and the other way around. The handwriting of the time seems to be one culprit with the H in the signature of someone on a document written in such a way it was mistaken for Th. Maybe we should start looking for a Joseph Thatcher of the correct age. I descend from William and Ann through their son John, then his daughter Ann who married James Dillon. Also, I think "walking contrary to discipline" could also mean he had a fight, joined the army, gambled etc. although in the case of William the drink angle is probably correct. Burnis Argo **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burnis......keep the faith! It's so easy to get these "stories" started based mainly on a lack of records and wild theorizing....and eventually people believe they're set in stone. But I'm very aware of how many of the recs have never been found or if found, buried in someone's files, never seeing the light of day. I know how often records are misinterpreted, sending everyone down the wrong road. The reason this is being discussed right now is because the LDS has uploaded PA Death certs that are helping us sort out or confirm relationships for Pennsy Bob's family. And the LDS will continue to upload their records. Eventually we may see those NJ records, too. We all have a better shot at untangling this mess with access to so many new recs coming online. Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood OK, you guys!! Here I've had Tom in his cage and he tells me he's been using the bones in his food to pick the lock and escape! WHICH ONE OF YOU IS FEEDING HIM BONES? Do you REALLY want a Thatcher Hatcher running amok in another 100 yrs?? Nel

Sorry. Did not mean to send it twice. Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Anything is possible, I suppose, but the Hatcher/Thatcher story has been around for a long, long time, repeated from one generation to the next I suppose. The DNA test in 2006 seems to have just proved that the Thatchers in Bucks County matched each other but not the William Hatcher family. It could be possible that some Hatchers called themselves Thatcher and the other way around. The handwriting of the time seems to be one culprit with the H in the signature of someone on a document written in such a way it was mistaken for Th. Maybe we should start looking for a Joseph Thatcher of the correct age. I descend from William and Ann through their son John, then his daughter Ann who married James Dillon. Also, I think "walking contrary to discipline" could also mean he had a fight, joined the army, gambled etc. although in the case of William the drink angle is probably correct. Burnis Argo **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burris, This is too funny! Fascinating what you can find on Worldconnect. Just found..... 1) Joseph Thatcher, s/o Richard with a note that says he was listed as Joseph HATCHER on a tax list. He also has a son, Wm THATCHER, who md Ann Van Sant....... 2) 2 files - Joseph Thatcher with son, William HATCHER who md Ann VS.... 3) Joseph Thatcher deeds land to son, Wm HATCHER, in 1726. Here is the Note on this particular file "Joseph deeded land in 1726 to his son, William Hatcher (Thatcher), born in Bucks County, PA. By this time the name appeared as Hatcher.(In old style handwriting the capital letter H with its flourish appears to be TH) The family name may always have been Hatcher. He does not normally appear in the family designated as Thatcher, and probably would be better traced as "Hatcher". RT Goodiel This family later is listed as the "Hatchers of Loudoun County Virginia(?)" One problem here - "by this time the name appeared as Hatcher." This implies a gradual change over a period of time where an individual is found going from Tom Thatcher to Tom Hatcher. That is not the case here. We have the name Thatcher for Joseph and Hatcher for William in a single deed. It's as if Wm suddenly decided to change his name in the middle of this deed - I wonder if "dad" got a little ticked :-) I will again note that this does not explain Wm HATCHER who witnessed the deed in 1718. If that guy is Joseph Thatcher's son, he is not our Wm bn 1705. And I have a transcript of the 1728 deed where Wm sells this land that he bought of Joseph HATCHER in 1726. There is nothing here to explain the relationship between the two. I do not have a copy of the 1726 deed though. We know Richard Thatcher appears to have lived near the Hatchers in BucksCo. He apparently left land to his son, Joseph, in his will. Perhaps there is not a Joseph Hatcher but only Joseph Thatcher with the following mess-ups in recording (clerks make errors, too) or transcribing records. Joseph Hatcher in the tax list (what year?) is really THATCHER. Joseph Hatcher in my 1728 deed is really THATCHER who sold land to Wm HATCHER. The 2 men are unrelated (and seems DNA proves it) but has caused consistent and ongoing confusion for one and all. The Wm Hatcher of the 1726 deed "may" be our Wm/Ann VS. By 1726 he "might have been" of age. So that still leaves us with Wm Hatcher of the 1718 record. There is NO evidence from Richard's will that he had a son, William, nor anything yet seen that shows any of his other sons had a William. In my opinion, this 1718 Wn IS a Hatcher and not a Thatcher. I think the entire problem begins and ends with recording clerks having brain burps while recording these records and forgetting whether they're dealing with the Hatchers or Thatchers, so.......hey, who cares how I spell it! Nel

Hmmm. Maybe I'll change my name to Tom Thatcher so that in a couple hundred years new people will be scratching their heads. Or better yet, I'll have a son and name him Thatcher. Gotta go talk to the wife... ----- Original Message ----- From: nelhatch To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [HATCHER] For our Quaker Hatchers.......... HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burris, This is too funny! Fascinating what you can find on Worldconnect. Just found..... 1) Joseph Thatcher, s/o Richard with a note that says he was listed as Joseph HATCHER on a tax list. He also has a son, Wm THATCHER, who md Ann Van Sant....... 2) 2 files - Joseph Thatcher with son, William HATCHER who md Ann VS.... 3) Joseph Thatcher deeds land to son, Wm HATCHER, in 1726. Here is the Note on this particular file "Joseph deeded land in 1726 to his son, William Hatcher (Thatcher), born in Bucks County, PA. By this time the name appeared as Hatcher.(In old style handwriting the capital letter H with its flourish appears to be TH) The family name may always have been Hatcher. He does not normally appear in the family designated as Thatcher, and probably would be better traced as "Hatcher". RT Goodiel This family later is listed as the "Hatchers of Loudoun County Virginia(?)" One problem here - "by this time the name appeared as Hatcher." This implies a gradual change over a period of time where an individual is found going from Tom Thatcher to Tom Hatcher. That is not the case here. We have the name Thatcher for Joseph and Hatcher for William in a single deed. It's as if Wm suddenly decided to change his name in the middle of this deed - I wonder if "dad" got a little ticked :-) I will again note that this does not explain Wm HATCHER who witnessed the deed in 1718. If that guy is Joseph Thatcher's son, he is not our Wm bn 1705. And I have a transcript of the 1728 deed where Wm sells this land that he bought of Joseph HATCHER in 1726. There is nothing here to explain the relationship between the two. I do not have a copy of the 1726 deed though. We know Richard Thatcher appears to have lived near the Hatchers in BucksCo. He apparently left land to his son, Joseph, in his will. Perhaps there is not a Joseph Hatcher but only Joseph Thatcher with the following mess-ups in recording (clerks make errors, too) or transcribing records. Joseph Hatcher in the tax list (what year?) is really THATCHER. Joseph Hatcher in my 1728 deed is really THATCHER who sold land to Wm HATCHER. The 2 men are unrelated (and seems DNA proves it) but has caused consistent and ongoing confusion for one and all. The Wm Hatcher of the 1726 deed "may" be our Wm/Ann VS. By 1726 he "might have been" of age. So that still leaves us with Wm Hatcher of the 1718 record. There is NO evidence from Richard's will that he had a son, William, nor anything yet seen that shows any of his other sons had a William. In my opinion, this 1718 Wn IS a Hatcher and not a Thatcher. I think the entire problem begins and ends with recording clerks having brain burps while recording these records and forgetting whether they're dealing with the Hatchers or Thatchers, so.......hey, who cares how I spell it! Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Tom, I see someone left the cage door unlocked again :-) Yes, we definitely need more info/records. Unfortunately I suspect from the timetable I've got with these miscellaneous Hatcher records in PA and NJ that our biggest hangup is NJ. There's next to nada online for NJ, and that includes ancestry recs. We have these 1718-1726 BucksCo recs for Wm and Joseph Hatcher. Then Quaker Wm bn c1705 BucksCo (parents unknown), wife Ann VanSant. (Too young to be Wm above who witnessed a will in 1718). We then have Pennsy Bob's (DNA tested) Hatchers in Philly with the earliest ones Tom and John bn late 1790s in NJ. We now have Death certs on them showing bp of NJ and consistent with censi. Their father could be William bn before 1773 of BurlingtonCo, NJ who appears to have died before 1800. This Wm is the only and earliest Hatcher I have found in NJ so far. So we have a big 50 year black hole between Wm and Joseph of PA and Wm of NJ. Somehow I don't see the early PA Hatchers becoming Thatchers and then 50 yrs later reverting back to Hatcher. Nice try, Tom :-) I'm also aware of the Hatcher/Thatcher confusion but I do feel the fact that the Thatchers who tested do not match us is sufficient evidence to believe these are 2 distinct families. I also suspect that the stories claiming these names are one and the same comes from one early deed in which the names are spelled both Hatcher and Thatcher. But now that I've got more years under my belt reading these gawd-awful records, these types of misspellings are not as rare as one would think. I've never seen another record that places these 2 families in the same room with each other. And I also know that the ancestry early NJ data on Hatcher and Thatcher makes it very clear- Thatchers lived in XYZ counties and Hatchers lived in ABC counties - and never the twain meeting. Nel

We need more info, don't we? Could it be that one or more of those Hatchers also or formerly went by Thatcher? Do any records exist for Thatchers that might correlate with the Hatchers being discussed that might help answer some of our questions? My family line traces back through Isaac Hatcher, who left Loudon Cnty, VA to settle in Ohio, to Wm of Bucks Cnty, PA, and I and my four siblings recall from childhood the statements made by my grandparents that our name was actually once Thatcher. Yes, I know the DNA evidence disproves this anecdotal evidence, but family connections don't always match the DNA connections, do they? Or perhaps there were Thatchers who became Hatchers and also Thatchers who stayed Thatchers, and those two groups were unrelated. I love stirring the pot. Tom Hatcher ----- Original Message ----- From: nelhatch To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [HATCHER] For our Quaker Hatchers.......... HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Paul, First, according to the interpretations I've heard, "walking contrary to discipline" means Wm was drunk, which certainly fits with his ongoing problems. There are many records referring to military activities of one sort or other but none referring to "walking." I also have Hinshaw's complete volumes but not Hiatt's work. But while Hiatt may have concentrated on certain meetings, in this case he and Hinshaw are translating the exact same page. I just find it disturbing that we have two interpretations of the same page that have wildly different meanings. How does one report that "Joseph" requested transfer while another reports that "William" requested transfer for his son? Another small problem, and only reflecting what I've found in dozens of records, is that, at age 17, Joseph is rather old to be apprenticed out (to learn a trade). Young boys are almost always 13-15 when apprenticed in the expectation they will have fully learned their trade by the time they are of an age to earn their own way. And while errors do occur, there was only a John Hatcher with records of RW service from PA. I've found no Joseph from any state with RW service. But all of this does not explain having a Joseph bn 1743, died 1808 in PA. If he was Wm's son, why was he not mentioned in the will? For that matter, how is it known how old Joseph in the MM records was? There's nothing there that gives his age so how is it known he's "about 17"? I'm also not understanding what you're saying here..... "My william was almost 70 years old at this time and I find it hard to believe he would be marching or doing other things attributed to "a William Hatcher" above." Are you saying you don't believe it was Wm, husband of Ann, who was disciplined for "violating chastity", drinking, abusing his children, etc? He was abt 53 when the Rachel Tanner incident occurred and 59 when caught drinking, fighting, etc. And his son is ID'd as Wm Jr on the same page. There could not have been two senior Wms there without some means of ID'ing them as different individuals. Still too many questions unanswered here :-( Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have owned all six hardbound volunes of Hinshaws Encyclopedia since the early 1960s and I also own Hiatts work, and have found errors in both. Neither author claimed to copy every record, but Hiatt specialized in certain meetings and didn't attemp to copy them all, but he included much more in the meetings that he did extract than Hinshaw did for the same meeting. Also tried to be more forgiving in the way his help copied the records or ignored them entirely. In the case of Joseph Hatcher, one copied William Hatcher requesting a certificate for his son Joseph whom he has bound as apprentice to a Friend (note capital F in Friend meaning Society of Friends member) in Darby, Philadelphia county, Pennsylvania. Hinshaw copied Joseph Hatcher being gct [granted a certificate to] Darby MM [Monthly Meeting], Pa 28-11-1761. [Joseph would have been about 17 years old at this time] Hinshaw's interpretion of Williams 1764 violation states: William, abuses his family, drinks and fights; dis [disowned] 28-1-1764; his ack[nowledgment] [was] acc[epted] & he [was] rst[restored to membership] 30-1-1773; he is again dis for "walking contrary to discipline" [this generally means marching with the militia] 31-7-1773. My william was almost 70 years old at this time and I find it hard to believe he would be marching or doing other things attributed to "a William Hatcher" above. This is where I found my William having a son Joseph. This Joseph may have been swept up in the Revolutionary war. He was not mentioned in my Williams will. ----- Original Message ----- From: "nelhatch" <nelhatch@hills.net> To: <hatcher@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [HATCHER] For our Quaker Hatchers.......... > > HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com > HALL DNA project: > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm > "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D > Greenwood > > Paul, > > I can see a problem here. I've pulled up Hinshaw's Encyc records and this > is the exact entry. > > HATCHER, Joseph, gct Darby MM, Pa. 29-11-1761. > > Several entries for William are below showing Wm and his younger children > (unnamed) recrq 1754. Wife Ann and dau Mary recrq 2 mos later. > > Then Wm "violates the chastity of Rachel Tanner 1758." He was restored on > condition in Feb 1759. Wm's continuing problems are much as Hiatt laid > out. > > But nothing says Joseph is a son of William, there is no mention of > apprenticeship, nor do we even know how old this Joseph was. I'm not sure > what Hiatt was reading in these MM minutes but his rendering of events and > data seems to contain much more elaboration than what Hinshaw > recorded......and I am aware of the solid rep Hinshaw has for accuracy. > > So......not sure what's going on here :-( > > Nel > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >