HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood OK - let's see if I understand this right. If rec'd by request, does this imply they are asking to become NEW members of the Society and were not previously Quaker? Obviously we know Ann was not "born" into the Friends and it does appear that Wm wasn't either. I've never seen any Quaker Hatcher recs prior to Wm c1754 so this really could be the beginning of their involvement with the Quakers. And, Paul, that's a VERY important baptism rec for Wm of Dorset. Do you have an exact source for it? And if he was baptized, who were his parents? That's something we definitely have to follow thru on. I've also seen baptisms that occurred 1-3 yrs after the birth of the child. If I'm remembering correctly, our MN Hatchers from Dorset were Catholic but, of course, that's 150 yrs later. Martha!! Correct me if I'm wrong on this....... I would be particularly interested in whether the Dorset family of Wm baptized 1706 had any Joseph Hatchers running amok. It's still not clear if we're looking at a Joseph Hatcher or Thatcher in BucksCo. Moving right along.........! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood AND....unless the laws of PA were different from Colonial VA regarding these tax lists, if Wm was on the 1724 Tax list, it would seem he must be at least 21, thus born no later than 1703. But it could depend on what type of tax - real estate or personal property. With personal property lists, one could show up as young as 18 if he owned a horse or whatever was taxable. So....do we know what type of tax this was? I also think with a Google, you might be able to find the correct name of the Governor in that marriage record. I just screwed up our Quaker file so I'm very busy putting it back together - boo-hiss and a pox on me :-( Nel

Be it Remembered, That on the Thirteenth Day of November in the first Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord George, King of Great Britain, Etc. Anno Domini, One Thousand, Seven Hundred and Twenty Seven license of Marriage was granted by His Excellency Wm. Burnet????? - - - - - Governour of the Provinces of New-Jersey and New-York, Etc. unto Wm. Hatcher of the county of Bucks in Province of Pennsylvania Wheelwright - - - of the one Party AND "Anne VANSAND" of the Same county & Province Spinster of the other Party. Given under the said Governour's Hand and Prerogative - Seal of the Province of New-Jersey aforesaid, and dated the Day and Year above-written. Entered in the Secretary's Office at Burlington, Lau??: Bushill D. Secry: In the calendar in use at the time, November was the first month of the year 1727. This marriage was not recorded by the Quaker Monthly Meetings in either Burlington county, New Jersey or Bucks county, Pennsylvania, probably because Ann would have been a member of the Dutch Reformed church and thus, not a Quaker. William owned property in Bucks county, Pennsylvania, at the time of this marriage, making him at least 18 years old and thus born before 1709.

In a message dated 6/1/2008 10:26:07 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, nelhatch@hills.net writes: http://www.lakewoodcemetery.com/f_welcome.htm Thanks, Nel. Did Sue get information on a Hatcher family by contacting the cemetery or for another surname? Martha H. Welling **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

William Zane started this mess by leaving me really crappy clues. </HTML>

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Sue was not checking her Hatcher family but one of her other fams. Nel

Pennsy Bob is lurking silently with great interest but nothing to add. Ya' all going way beyond my brick walls. Bob Hatcher Mountaintop, Pa. </HTML>

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Sue Dixey found this site http://www.lakewoodcemetery.com/f_welcome.htm where we have about 10 Hatchers buried. But she didn't stop with just the site and contacted them asking if they had more info on one of her families. She found they had much more info in their records than just the names/dates. So don't hesitate to contact the cemetery when you find your people. You might be richly rewarded for minimal effort. I'm also still looking for a NC resident who can work with her making email research requests to the NC Archives. Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burnis and anyone interested...... Below is the Hatcher-Coates record I referred to. John Hatcher bn c1760 md Amelia Coates in 1783. In 1801 John and Amy sold a Philly lot to Samuel Coates. These 2 appear to have lived and died in Philly. John's page http://hatcherfamilyassn.com/getperson.php?personID=I728&tree=Unchat Burnis - can you ID this Sam and how or if he may relate to Amy? Siblings, perhaps? If so, parents?? Anything? Who is Josiah L Coates? Nel ----------------- Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania Deed Book EF-10, Page 23-24 LDS Film 21947 Transcribed by Cecil Q Larsen John Hatcher & w. To Samuel Coates This Indenture made the Seventh day of April Anno Domini One thousand eight hundred and one Between John Hatcher of the City of Philadelphia House Carpenter and Amy his Wife of the one part and Samuel Coates of the same place Merchant of the other part Witnesseth that the said John Hatcher and Amy his Wife for and in consideration of the sum of seven hundred and ninety six Dollars current _____(?) Money of the United States unto them __________(?) of by the said Samuel Coates in hand paid the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged Have granted bargained and sold released and confirmed and by these presents Do grant bargain and sell release and confirmed unto the said Samuel Coates his heirs and assigns All that Lot or piece of ground situate in the West side of Ninth Street from Delaware between Locust and France(?) Street in the said City Containing in breadth on the said Ninth Street twenty feet and in length or depth One hundred and Eighty eight feet Bounded Eastward by Ninth Street aforesaid Northward with a lot intended to be granted to Matthias Valentine ____(?) on Ground rent forever Westward by Rasberry Alley and Southward with ground of Thomas Shields (Being part of a larger Lot of Two hundred and fifty feet on Ninth Street by One hundred and eighty eight feet on Locust Street which the Supreme Executive Council of Pennsylvania by their Deed poll dated the Twenty sixth day of December One thousand seven hundred and eighty one granted unto the said Thomas Shields in ___(?)) Together with all the rights Liberties privileges Buildings Ways Waters W___(?) Members Herediments premises and Appurtenances whatsoever thereto belonging And the revisions and remainders thereof To have and to hold the said Lot of Ground with their Appurtenances unto the said Samuel Coates his Heirs and assigns To and for the only use and Behoof of the said Samuel Coates his heirs and assigns forever Under and subject to the payment of a yearly rent charge of Fourteen Ounces five pennyweight and ten Grains of fine Silver not courser than the Standard of the Kingdom of France in the year One thousand seven hundred and eighty five yearly forever on the First day of January in every year to the said Thomas Shields without any Deduction or Abatement to be made for any Taxes Charges or Assessments whatsoever. This property being the same which the said Thomas Shields granted to the said John Hatcher subject to the rent charge aforesaid by Deed dated the Seventeenth day of June One thousand Seven hundred and eighty four. Recorded at Philadelphia in the Office for Recording of Deeds for the City and County of Philadelphia in Book ___ page ___ ____(?) And the said John Hatcher and Amy his wife and their Heirs the said _____(?) to be with the Appurtenances unto the said Samuel Coates his heirs and assigns aforesaid then the said John Hatcher and Amy his wife and their heirs _____(?) against all and every other person and persons whatsoever lawfully claiming or to claim by ____(?) form or them or any of them shall and will warrant and forever defend by _______(?) In witness whereof the said _____________(?) John Hatcher Amey Hatcher ___(?) the day and year first above written. Sealed and delivered in the presence of Michael Callanan Jno R Smith Witnesses for John Hatcher's signing Josiah L Coates W J Jacob Witnesses for Amy Hatcher's signing Received the day ____________(?) John Hatcher ___________(?) Witness Michael Callanan John R Smith Witness for John Hatcher's signing City of Philad. ...........personally appeared the above named John Hatcher and Amy his wife ........... written ......... to be their Act and Deed ........ said Amy being examined separately and apart from her said Husband ........ her Act and Deed without any compulsion or coersion of her said Husband....... the Seventh day of April 1801. B. Smith Recorded the 9th day of July 1801.

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood You BETTER be lurking deep, Bob! YOU opened this can of worms :-) Nel

I just found the Bucks County VanSants, including my Johannes and wife Leah Grosbeck/Grossbeeck etc. in the Bensalem, Bucks County, PA, Dutch Reform Church Records--so no Quakers there, though Johannes and Leah apparently were married in the First Presbyterian Church of Philadelphia, 17 Feb 1702/3. Which Coat/Coate family? I tie into the Coate/s family through Samuel who was in Bucks County by 1695 when he married and his grandson Marmaduke who was born in Hunterdon Co, NJ, 1738, son of Henry. I did find a few Vansandt/VanSant etc. in Quaker Records in Pennsylvania toward the end of 1700 and on. But nothing early. Am interested in where Ray found the marriage notice of Wm. Hatcher and Ann VanSandt. I knew it must have been somewhere but had never been able to find it myself. More later. Will look up New Jersey Quaker Records-- Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burnis, The Grosbeck name is familiar and I seem to remember some have had that name connected to Ann VanSant. I just never found any proof. Can you put these guys in a timeframe? But you're in Bensalem! And that's where Stephen Sands lived when he md Mary Hatcher in 1749. Now I've heard many say that lots of the Quakers jumped the river to marry in NJ "out of unity." In short, they eloped. But that little trick isn't unique to just Quakers. If daddy didn't like the prospective groom for whatever reason (and regardless of religion), the kids would just take matters into their own hands. So,,,... ....when Wm md Ann, were they both living in Bensalem in 1726? Was Mary Hatcher Sands the dau of Wm/Ann? This is still before 1756 when we have a Wm/Ann appear in Goose Creek. If this is correct, then it would mean Wm Jr and sister, Mary Hatcher Gibson, of Goose Creek are NOT the kids of Wm/Ann.....unless Wm/Ann named 2 daus Mary. Another wiggly worm..... I need to do a search in my files for the Coates name. It seems I have a stray Hatcher/Coates rec and think it was a Samuel Coates. But we also have in Pennsy Bob's family a John Hatcher, bn c1760, who md Amelia Coates in Philly. We also have a Wm Coates Hatcher of BurlingtonCo whose parents are unknown. So the name is definitely there.......... I'll dig up the Wm/Ann rec and send it to you privately. And you could be right. Neither Wm or Ann may have originally been Quakers but joined the Friends much later in life. Since it appears they were "surrounded", maybe it was a case of.....if you can't beat 'em, join em :-) Moving right along.......! Nel

This is a bit disjointed Nel as the more I check this stuff the more I realize we don't really know much of anything!! This is a great BIG can of worms, I would say. I am currently revisiting my Hatcher/Dillon binder to see if I have anything concrete. Most of what I have entered in my genealogy program includes lots of question marks. I found I have a little book titled "Friends in Burlington" by Amelia Mott Gummere, 1884, which includes a listing in the back of marriages in Burlington MM up to 1750. No Hatcher/Vansant wedding listed there and I cannot find thos names at all though I am just now setting out to read through the whole book to see if I missed something. I have a lot and have read a lot of Quaker Records in the New Jersey/Delaware/Pennsylvania/Virginia etc. area because of the many Quaker lines I have--especially Welsh Quakers who came into the Philadelphia area late 1600/early 1700s and I have never run across any Hatchers that I can remember. Earlier today I had the thought that maybe they became Quakers after the marriage of William/Ann Vansant. most of the recs I have for Wm/Ann begin in 1756-57 at Goose Creek Actually I found the record concerning William, Ann and younger children as well as the daughter Mary in the Fairfax MM Records, 1754. Also, a little later, the part about Wm. and his drinking. I suppose I finally gave up on going back further or even trying to figure out who William was -- because I could never find any sources. In checking my late father's records (he worked on genealogy for over 60 years) I see he stopped at Ann Hatcher/James Dillon. He never speculated which it seems several of the rest of us have been doing. Do have a transcription of the following but of course need to look for a copy of the original--"Ann VanSandt and her siblings are named in the Orphans Court records of Cecil Co, MD. Father's will left land in Cecil Co, to be used for their support. There also are deeds in Cecil Co, MD, where William Hatcher and Ann VanSandt sell land, along with VanSandt siblings." So this is something to be checked out. >From Evelyn Avery I have an abstract of the Will of William Hatcher jr., son of Wm. and Ann--Loudoun County Will Bk M., p.89. As he had no surviving children at the time of his death he leaves to his surviving sister and brother, Sarah [Russell] and Thomas Hatcher and to the children of his deceased siblings which he names: John Hatcher, Mary Gibson, James Hatcher and George Hatcher. Note: I have a Joseph Hatcher listed as a sibling but don't see a mention of him here. Need the original. Apparently the original may also name all these nieces and nephews which would be great. Of interest: the abstract says he leaves a legacy of $100 to his present house keeper, Ann Ingeledue--my John Hatcher, brother of Wm. jr., was married to a Sarah Ingeldue. I do not have a sister Ann for her but this might be a niece/aunt ?? If you and Ray and Ed can come up with what I can check on in SLC that will be great. In the meantime I will get back to my Burlington book and my search for any other true sources in the way of Tax List, Quaker Records or whatever. Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burnis, Ray has been dumping on me all day and I'm printing out dozens of pages he's finding on genealogy.com for several surnames. One item was the BurlingtonCo marriage of Wm and Ann VS, both of PA (no county). This was NOT a Quaker marriage so not in the MM recs. "I have a lot and have read a lot of Quaker Records in the New Jersey....." I've seen almost none for NJ and hope that the Burlington Historical Soc will have them. Do you have any suggestions as to the best place to look for the NJ Quaker recs?? "There also are deeds in Cecil Co, MD, where William Hatcher and Ann VanSandt sell land, along with VanSandt siblings." Say WHAT?? Wm and Ann in MARYLAND? You've got my jaw dropping and would like to hear more on this. I'm almost positive I have some stray recs for a John and Wm Hatcher in very early Port Tobacco, MD (I think CecilCo). It's definitely worth checking this out! And now the will of Wm Jr and his sis, Mary Gibson. She was supposedly born c1749, last dau of Wm/Ann. BUT we also have the NJ marriage of Stephen Sands to Mary Hatcher, both of Bensalem,BucksCo in 1749. This is one of the strays that Evelyn could not solve but it's also another squirming worm in our can. Who is she? Stephen is probably s/o Edmond Sands (of Bensalem and s/o another Stephen Sands) who md 1720 Mary COATES (another surname in our can). Here is a list of the surnames of interest that we're looking at from late 1600s thru 1700s..... Van Horn Van Sant Sands Coates Stokes Nel

Nel: I have gone through what little information I have on William Hatcher sr. Meager at best and not worked on for a few years. I have never found any sources proving the birth date or place of our Quaker William Hatcher. I am thinking the abt. 1704 date of birth given for him is a guesstimate based on the Bucks County Court Records of the 1720s, the Bucks Co tax list of 1724 and his marriage to Ann Vansant in 1727 in Burlington Co, NJ. I don't even know how we have arrived at the idea the William Hatcher of these Bucks County records is our William Hatcher. Anyone have better information? Early Quaker records? Anything. I have a note from Evelyn Avery noting an Agatha A. Hartley says: "William is descended from the Quaker Hatchers who came to Philadelphia in 1682 & settled in Bucks Co., PA. These are NOT the Henrico Co 'William the Immigrant Hatchers'." I don't find any Hatchers in the Quaker records I have for the area around Philadelphia but I will begin a new search since so many more records of all kinds are available now. Also, in early July my husband and I are going on a trip which will include 3 days for me to research in Salt Lake City so this will go on my priority list. Burnis **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Burnis, "I don't even know how we have arrived at the idea the William Hatcher of these Bucks County records is our William Hatcher." Thank you! After spending the past 2 days working on this and carefully looking over Wm's recs and the Quaker recs, it clearly seems to me that some of his alleged children have been attached on assumptions only. Example: John/Sarah Ingledue. Hinshaw shows him arriving at Goose Creek and shortly after he married Sarah. None of their few recs ID parents for either one of them. And I won't say that I may not have missed something but I've not seen any of Wm's "kids" showing Wm/Ann as their parents in Hinshaw. And while I agree with Agatha Hartley that these Hatchers are not the Henrico Hatchers, I will question her statement that the Quaker Hatchers "came to Philadelphia in 1682." That was the year of the arrival of the 1st boatload of Penn immigrants and while the passenger list has not survived, a reconstruction has been made with no Hatchers. The Quakers were still coming over 10-20 yrs later. I could reiterate the dozens of questions that have been forming in my mind lately but to keep it short.....I think we've got a real can of worms here. What I can tell you is that the most of the recs I have for Wm/Ann begin in 1756-57 at Goose Creek. The few recs I have on his page are for the unknown Wm in BucksCo. So if you've got any pre-1750 recs (like the Tax lists), I would much appreciate a copy. We've also got two more elves working on this - Ray Nelson and Ed Johnson. Between the 3 of us I hope to have more and better input on this and hopefully, by the time you hit SLC, we might have some really specific people and things for you to look for. Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Hey!! Our file has Quaker Wm bn c1704 BUCKS CO, PA........ So! If he was born there, where and who are his parents? But I see no proof for this birthplace. Does anyone have any? If no proof, he then could be assumed to be the immigrant (or does Joseph fit in somewhere?) I was also reminded today of something else to consider. My Zimmerman's arrived in Philly in 1697 (Lutherans from Germany). Their 12 yr old son wrote in a journal (still in the possession of descendants) that they first lived in "a little cave" dug into the hillside. Life was tough for new settlers, especially if not wealthy. It took time to reach the position where you could buy some land and build a home. This would have been true for Wm also. And I suspect his bdate of c1704 is a guesstimate based on the notion he likely md at age 21 or 22. But we could be dead wrong here. Most men didn't marry until they at least could provide a home for their bride. Can you imagine him asking his lady if she wants to live in his cave with him?? :-) And in this situation, Wm could well have been 25 or older making his byear c1697-1700. And if that's true, he could then be the Wm who witnessed the will in 1718. If he was the immigrant, he was likely at least 16 when he arrived, so arrived 1713-1716. But if he came with an older brother, Joseph, it's harder to pin down and could have been several years earlier. Any thoughts on the meanderings of my mind? Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Hey!! Our file has Quaker Wm bn c1704 BUCKS CO, PA........ So! If he was born there, where and who are his parents? But I see no proof for this birthplace. Does anyone have any? If no proof, he then could be assumed to be the immigrant (or does Joseph fit in somewhere?) I was also reminded today of something else to consider. My Zimmerman's arrived in Philly in 1697 (Lutherans from Germany). Their 12 yr old son wrote in a journal (still in the possession of descendants) that they first lived in "a little cave" dug into the hillside. Life was tough for new settlers, especially if not wealthy. It took time to reach the position where you could buy some land and build a home. This would have been true for Wm also. And I suspect his bdate of c1704 is a guesstimate based on the notion he likely md at age 21 or 22. But we could be dead wrong here. Most men didn't marry until they at least could provide a home for their bride. Can you imagine him asking his lady if she wants to live in his cave with him?? :-) And in this situation, Wm could well have been 25 or older making his byear c1697-1700. And if that's true, he could then be the Wm who witnessed the will in 1718. If he was the immigrant, he was likely at least 16 when he arrived, so arrived 1713-1716. But if he came with an older brother, Joseph, it's harder to pin down and could have been several years earlier. Any thoughts on the meanderings of my mind? Nel

Was this sent as an attachment? hhth1, could you please resend by cutting and pasting the document? hatcher-request@rootsweb.com wrote: Today's Topics: 1. Obituary for Alda Myrtle Hatcher Belcher (hhth1@embarqmail.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 23:52:29 -0400 From: Subject: [HATCHER] Obituary for Alda Myrtle Hatcher Belcher To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <200805300352.m4U3qTHF023880@trinadad.cnpapers.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ------------------------------ To contact the HATCHER list administrator, send an email to HATCHER-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the HATCHER mailing list, send an email to HATCHER@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of HATCHER Digest, Vol 3, Issue 192 ***************************************

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Folks, We have the unknown Wm Hatcher who witnessed the will of Wm Rakestraw in 1718. The other witness was John CADWALADER. Now in surfing thru this family, I just discovered that George, s/o Wm/Ann VSant, at his 1778 wedding had these witnesses.....Moses Cadwalader, Elizabeth Cadwalader, Ruth Cadwalader, Ruth Cadwalader (mother and dau?) Soooooo...........sure looks like there's a possible connection between our 2 Wms and this Cadwalader family. Still got a BIG gap in between though. Nel