HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Jan, "Very unusual first name for a man unless it is in the family." Some of these names become obvious as to their source - a proven mother's maiden name, a famous person (Francis Marion, Nathanial Green). In the case of Sanders scattered here and there thru Maj John's line, it becomes less obvious. And it is only the source of the first occurrence that becomes important. After that it simply becomes a "family name" used by descendants who likely do not even know the original source. That is particularly true in our case when it cannot be proven that Ann's name was Sanders or that this woman was ever in GA or that she can even be connected to John at this point. With John now attached to Tom/Wilm, with deeper digging we might discover that this name came from somewhere in Wilm's family or in honor of a respected neighbor or associate. What I do know is that this name was used widely in GA families. If you go to WC and search for the given name Sanders with a birthplace GA, you will find men with the following surnames born between 1792-1820 named Sanders..... Arnold, Blanchard, Bowden, Burgess, Butler, Clements, Colbert, Creekmore, Davis, Dimond, Favor.......just from a few pages. There are dozens born after 1820 who were probably so named because it's now a "family name." This name in the Hatcher family just isn't unique to us. It would be interesting to know it's source and with it's wide use, I've tried to find some prominent Sanders man as a source and have been unable. I just don't know Nel

Happy 4th to all of you too! I have one question about Major John. I am connected back again. The Sanders connection was very interesting to me since my ggrandfather's name was Sanders Hatcher. Very unusual first name for a man unless it is in the family. Jan Wilbanks

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood I know you're all out there chowin' down BBQ :-) Today I have carefully checked every record for Robert of Richmond and his kids to verify their reasonableness and accuracy. I have also arranged all of these records as a timeline on their respective pages for ease of viewing. Along the way I discovered a fair amount of records on various individual's pages that became instantly obvious they belonged to another same named person. Much switching back and forth. I have completed all changes now and here is the final summary. 1) Henry/Nancy Vicks added as s/o Tom/Wilm 2) Our stray Robert on Little River, ColumbiaCo added as a s/o Jameston/Ann Knibb and brother of Tom/Wilm. He has no known wife or children. 3) Ann Sanders has been removed as a wife. Her presence in GA has nothing to support it. I discovered a record that did not belong to either of these GA Roberts that showed we still have a Robert in HalifaxCo too far past Robert's arrival in GA who could just as easily be Ann's husband. 4) Robert of Richmond is (still) attached as s/o Jeremiah/Margaret of LunensburgCo, VA. This connection remains because of the fact that Obedience Hatcher Bugg, a dau of Jeremiah, is also very much there in Richmond. 5) Robert of Richmond has the following known kids. ....a) William bn c1760, disappears ....b) Henry, bn c1762, disappears after 1825, no known family ....c) One-legged Jeremiah, bn c1764, complete family record ....d) John, bn bef 1766, disappears after 1807, no known family ....e) Edward, bn 1774, died 1808, no heirs With this family now more settled (in my mind), the disappearance of some of them may open new opportunities to see if they may connect to someone on our Unk file wandering somewhere west. In the past years there has been more than one occasion of a major find of this nature but I can honestly say none of them, in analyzing, verifying and processing changes, has been without a niggly (two or three) that required more time and effort to nail down. Until now. Every duck fell in line. Every record found in the wrong place could instantly be seen to belong to the other guy. This has been one of the smoothest and quickest major changes I've had the pleasure to make. For those of you interested in and willing to wade thru all this, feel free to ask questions or add your comments. Happy 4th!! Nel

Nel, I have Ancestry and have looked for Ben Mitch. Is there more to this name or exactly what am I looking for? Janet

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Janet, Jim already found the census image for me - thank you :-) Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Guess my fingers fell asleep. The subject should be "current" status, not currect. Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Folks, For those interested, I've completed what I will call my first pass on rearranging Major John and who I believe are his siblings. See Thomas/Wilmoth at http://hatcherfamilyassn.com/getperson.php?personID=I39133&tree=WmtheIm I will be more than happy to answer any questions and to explain my reasoning for this new family arrangement. Nel

Nel, You stated: but one woman's assessment does not make for proof. I totally agree! Several assessments does not make for proof unfortunately! You further stated: I would appreciate any of you who are familiar with this family or any who can ask the relevant questions to make every effort to tear this apart. I am solidly conviced this is right. I need you to unconvince me...before I start rearranging the file :-) _____________________________________ I am NOT convinced and I hope I can unconvince you?! And you have already rearranged the on line file before allowing any of this to be looked at objectively or for a few good discussions for a few days. You wanted some feedback, so here it goes. I agree on the DNA, but I am having a big problem with this supposed connection for some of the following reasons: 1. first you don't have any real proof. (wish we did) 2. none of Mj. Johns children are named Thomas or Jameston. 3. his first born was named "Jeremiah Brady", we know where the Brady came from, but in the normal naming convention of the day, the first born would have been named for the grandfather, hence, Jeremiah Hatcher( Robert and Edwards father) and the second born male named for the father. If Jameston was Mj.s grandfather, why did he not name his first born Jameston and his second born male Thomas? Reason, I don't think Mj. John was a child of Thomas Hatcher! Based on the names of the male children, whom all match up with either Robert and / or Jeremiah and in some cases their grandmother or great grandmother's maiden names. All of Mj. John's children's names can be matched to either Robert or Jeremiah and / or their wives or children's names. Strangely enough the only one missing is Edward of which just last year you were trying to say he was Mj. Johns father. There is NO Thomas, NO Jameston, NO Dempsey, NO Wilmoth male or female. We know Mj. John's children's names are correct, we have the proof. It just does not add up based on just people being in the same location at the same time frame. A lot of different Hatcher lines crossed paths during the great migrations to the south during the opening up of the frontier. I am not ready to buy off on it just yet, we need some real proof. If you feel so strongly that Robert is not the Mj.s father, and he may well not be, but I do belief that John is from this line somewhere, somehow based on the children's names. I know, you will say this does not prove swat and it doesn't, but it is as good as any other proof I have seen. I for one would rather you list John on the unknown file rather than keep moving him around based on just circumstantial evidence and gut feelings that come along from time to time. As you well know, people will copy these new connections when you make them and they will still be out there on the Web for years to come misleading others and getting re-copied over and over long after you have changed them to some other connection. Don't take this as criticism, you know I love and respect what you do, we just need to move a little slower on John till we come up with some real proof and when that happens, everyone will buy in and be comfortable with a solid connection including myself. >From the Bible: 4. John Jr.s Bible lists Mj. John, wife, and first four children to wit: Page 680: BIRTHS John Hatcher Sr Was Bornd March 7th 1757 Mary Hatcher Was Bornd 1763 Marryed Dec 30th 1779 Jeremiah B. Hatcher Was Bornd Sept.20th 1780 Nancy Hatcher Was Bornd Nov 4 1782 Mary Hatcher Was Bornd Oct 26 1784 John Hatcher Was Bornd May 7th 1786 Margaret Hatcher Was Born July the 17th 1791 (John Jr.s wife) And I thought Robert(Alabama Bob) has some of the war records on file for Mj. John? I can't prove Nel's theory is wrong nor can she prove it is correct, I wish we could one way or the other; once in for all put John to rest. I am sure I can probable shoot some more holes in the theory given time, but time is short these days for me. Dear God, I wish we could find that elusive record to prove who Mj. John's father or at lease who his grandfather was.... Anyone else is welcome to wade in on this discussion, the more the better, Regards to all, William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. M Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! -----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of William W. Hatcher Sr. Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 5:50 PM To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HATCHER] Maj John - my theory in more detail......... I'm going to have to read and study all of this and compare it to what I got in my file several time before I start trying to shoot any holes in it! Maybe later tonight? William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. M Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! -----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of nelhatch Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:49 AM To: HATCHERLIST Subject: [HATCHER] Maj John - my theory in more detail......... HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Good morning, All I'm going to lay out more reasons I still believe Maj John is son of Tom/Wilmoth. And I will now say I strongly believe Wm/Priscilla, currently attached as s/o Robert/Ann San---, is ALSO a son of T/W. Also keep in mind that Tom was the brother of the infamous JAMESTON. Ann Knibb Hatcher, mother of Tom, Jameston and Nancy disappeared from ChesterfieldCo sometime after 1764 [important date]. She appears in the 1790 LaurensCo, SC census. We do not know where she was in that gap but son Tom was there before 1770 and Jameston by 1772. The assumption will be that this old woman came with her sons and daughter. ....Nancy was the mother of the Milam/Hatcher family, father unknown. ........son Fleming lived on Rabun creek near the Newberry/Union Co lines. ....Tom/Wilm lived on Peters creek on the border of Newberry/Union Cos. Switching to Wm/Priscilla and Maj John. William's RW pension states he was born 1759 in MecklenburgCo, VA. Our last VA record for Tom/Wilm is 1761 ChesterfieldCo. If Tom is Wm's father, Wm was likely born in Chest. But children [absent birth records] do not know where they were born unless told. This may simply have been a belief on his part based on some long past and vague conversation. It should be noted that anyone moving to GA would pass thru Lunenburg/Mecklenburg. While we have no records [yet] showing the presence of this family in Lun/Meck, it's certainly not impossible that they remained there for a few years before moving on and may be the source for Wm's belief he was born there. Keep in mind he was only 5 yrs old in 1764 when his family arrived in GA. "Moved from Virginia in 1764 [note this date is the date Anne Knibb Hatcher disappears from VA] with his father and settled in Richmond Co. Georgia, five miles below Augusta, from whence he removed to Edgefield Co. S.C. where he first entered service about June 1778 as a volunteer private of infantry under state authority under command of General (Howe ??) in Colonel (Leroy) Hammond's Regiment, Major Purvis, Captain Ryan's Company.----- in Edgefield District S.C." It is the above record and the 1767 record of a Robert Hatcher with 5 kids applying for land in Augusta 4 miles below Augusta that is the reason for attaching Wm as a son of Robert. Robert's wife was believed to be Ann Sanders which supposedly explains the presence of the Sanders middle name in a number of Hatcher kids. The marriage record of Robert and Ann is found in AmeliaCo, VA but the record is torn and her name can only be read as Ann San. Joyce Harrison's research into this never found any Sanders family in Amelia but she did find the Sandifer family. We cannot prove from this that Ann's name was Sanders. No Ann has ever been found in the GA recs to prove AmeliaCo Ann was ever the wife of a GA Robert. I cannot explain at this time where the Sanders name came from but I also see nada evidence that Ann Sanders [if that was her name] was the source. During our years of research I came to believe that there was more than one Robert Hatcher in GA - the above Robert who appears to have always lived in/near Augusta [and never in SC per Wm's pens app] and the other Robert with land in the northern Columbia/Lincoln/Elbert Co area [which happens to be directly across the Savannah river from where Tom Jr, s/o TomWilm, was living on Turkey creek. This Robert may also be another son of Tom/Wilm. Another record for Robert of Augusta shows his arrest along with Edward Hatcher and Jacob Colson. My best research shows Jacob to have come from EdgecombeCo, NC, the home of John/Mary Hancock who had a proven son, Robert. I now believe Robt of Augusta has no connection to Maj John or Wm/Pris and that it was the best assumption available to believe John and Wm [along with several others] were Robert's sons. I also now suspect that the Robert of Augusta is the same Robert found in 1790 EdgefieldCo, SC with a John Hatcher living next door [both living alone] and that it is this Robert who died c1800 in Campbellton, SC [directly across the river from Augusta]. His estate was meager and no family member was involved in the settlement nor was there mention of children. Augusta was a "major city" at that time and would be an obvious destination for those migrating to this area. Many purchased land and remained. It is apparent that Wm's father did not stay but removed to SC. Note also that Wm arrived in 1764 but Robt did not apply for land until 3 years later. It could be a mistake for us to assume that while in GA that Tom would necessarily purchase land. The leasing of land was as much an option as purchasing. If this was the case, this would be one explanation why no records have been found for Tom's presence in GA. We do know he purchased land in 1770 on Peters creek, SC and may have been there somewhat earlier. We have oodles of military recs on the GA Hatcher boys with all of them believed to be sons of Robert. But these recs hi-lite some major differences. While "battle" recs on Maj John are non-existent, it is obvious he was career military. Wm also spent 2-3 years, beginning in 1778, as a soldier and it should be noted he joined in SC, not GA. [See his recs online]. He continued in the military in ElbertCo, GA, and [by memory] attained the rank of Captain. It should also be noted that Tom/Wilm was a Captain in 1778 SC. Another strong military connection. On the other hand, the rest of the sons of Robert are only shown as short term [2-3 mos] volunteers in the GA Militia in 1780 when the British were attempting to take GA. There is only one rec found that shows Wm in the same company with these other Hatcher boys, but Wm's recs will show he was assigned to many companies and battles, perhaps being sent to wherever troops were needed. This one interaction would not constiture proof of a close family connection. In 1820 we can place Wm/Pris in WilkinsonCo, GA, the home of Maj John. By 1830 he has moved on to MeriwetherCo, GA. We can put him in the same box with Maj John but never with the Hatchers of the Augusta [RichmondCo] area. Now for those still reading this tome....I have yet to find a record to disprove this theory [or even raise a serious niggly] but one woman's assessment does not make for proof. I would appreciate any of you who are familiar with this family or any who can ask the relevant questions to make every effort to tear this apart. I am solidly conviced this is right. I need you to unconvince me...before I start rearranging the file :-) But this does not end with just John and Wm. Once you start ripping sons from a father's breast and giving them new daddies, you open up new worm cans. Sons may need to be replaced. Other Hatchers whose connections are less convincing may become more obvious and more rearrangements may occur. This could and probably will become a major project with many possible twists and turns..........so I will be grateful for any input along the way. Have at it!!! Oh - one final point. If Maj John and Wm were connected to Robert's family, they would be descendants of Ben/Liz. Yet their DNA tests match descendants of Edward. Tom/Wilm were Ed descendants. Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1529 - Release Date: 7/1/2008 7:23 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1529 - Release Date: 7/1/2008 7:23 PM

Thanks I figured it out...........can't wait to explore..........Nancy Frank & Nancy Thomas oldeual@earthlink.net "ASPIRE to INSPIRE before you EXPIRE!!" > [Original Message] > From: nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> > To: <hatcher@rootsweb.com> > Date: 7/3/2008 11:16:17 AM > Subject: Re: [HATCHER] Idaho Hatcher's cemetery listings with photo'scorrection Iowa > > I don't know where my mind was this morning when I put Idaho in the subject line.............should have been Iowa. > � > I'll go back to sleep now.zzzzzzzzzz........... > � > Nancy > > > > --- On Thu, 7/3/08, nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> > Subject: Idaho Hatcher's cemetery listings with photo's > To: hatcher@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:58 AM > > > > > > > > > In doing a search for Hatcher I got 65 hits.............includes tombstone photo's > http://www.iowagravestones.org/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood W W, First, I love you, too, and I would be stunned to find that anyone would be "convinced" in just these few short days. This is a complex problem that will take much time. I ain't Wonder Woman :-) But I would also like to point out the major problem with the Robert connection - and I believe all of us who have worked on this over the years will agree - we have found NOT ONE SINGLE DOCUMENT that ever ties this family directly or even remotely to Robert. These two families were always living in distinctly different locations and that fact IS important. There is real substance to "locations" in geney analysis. Without any connection at all, we MUST look at other possibilities and what I am finding so far makes it supremely likely that no one other than Tom/Wilm can be their parents. "1. first you don't have any real proof. (wish we did)" We have no proof of Robert either. We never did. What I am doing right now is attempting to provide the proof for Tom/Wilm or such strong circumstantial evidence that the connection can't be denied. W W, a process of this magnitude takes a GREAT DEAL OF TIME. I can't do it overnite. "2. none of Mj. Johns children are named Thomas or Jameston." But we do have James all over the place. I don't necessarily expect the name of one I believe is an uncle to be splattered all over this family's map. We do not find the name Jameston even in his own direct family. I also do not use naming patterns as indicative of anything other than icing on the cake. You build the cake first from the records. If some names flow along in the family, they tend to ice the cake. Naming kids was an individual choice. It was not a requirement that one name kids after parents. Some did. Some didn't. "3. his first born was named "Jeremiah Brady"....but in the normal naming convention of the day, the first born would have been named for the grandfather..." No, you seem to be a gen off here. If Robert was John's father, John's 1st born would be named Robert, not Jeremiah (believed to be Robert's father). John named his 7th child Robert. I would also suggest that John may have named his 1st child after Jeremiah Beall who appears to have been one of his first commanding officers. This type of naming is not unknown in the military community, and John was definitely military. "If Jameston was Mj.s grandfather, why did he not name his first born Jameston and his second born male Thomas?" Same reasoning as above. The child would be named after his gfather (Thomas) and not his ggfather. We don't know whether John had a son Thomas who died. But it really doesn't matter since naming was a personal choice, not law. "...and in some cases their grandmother or great grandmother's maiden names." I believe you are referring to Ann Sanders. Again, I will point out that there is not a single ref in GA to the name of Robert's wife. She being Ann Sanders is a wild assumption and totally unproven. Remember Joyce's AmeliaCo research showing NO Sanders families in Amelia and the fact that this marriage rec was torn and showed only Ann San. We simply cannot tie the presence of the middle name Sanders to anyone. There is NO link between Ann San of Amelia and anyone in GA. "Strangely enough the only one missing is Edward of which just last year you were trying to say he was Mj. Johns father" Never did I say Ed was John's father. They were the same age. Now the file. You bet I'm rearranging and reorganizing. From a technical standpoint, the online file is my workfile. I must make my changes there, do my analysis from there, form my questions from there. I cannot do that by having these people scattered and disconnected all over the file. I would also like to make a very strong point about my theories and who and where I make connections. I have made several of these "major changes" in the past with a number of them leaving me with lots of nigglies in my gut. I know there are enough holes to sink a battleship. But I've also been rewarded doing this by occasionally having experienced researchers provide me with the evidence of my wrong thinking. And THAT is what I'm looking for. I make no claim any of my work is perfect. My goal is to get to the truth and I have no problem with mea culpas if someone can prove me wrong. I will get on my knees and say THANK you! The same is true today. My gut reaction to the John problem does not leave me with nagging nigglies with the larger connection. Yes, there will be other details within the family that may be minor problems and that is where I see the work ahead. I make every effort to keep all in this group informed when major changes are made. YOU, the people most directly affected, must know why I'm doing what I'm doing. But at no time am I asking anyone to just accept blindly. I ask for input, corrections, new theories, new questions. I ask for help, not acceptance. And to put it bluntly, I long ago gave up caring one whit what the uneducated and inexperienced hobbyists do or what they copy from my or anyone's file. No one is going to control that idiocy. There is no such thing as a perfect file. There are dozens of sites still showing Wm of Careby. The garbage got started long before we came along. We've got the truth about Wm "of Careby" on our file and they don't care. I refuse to cater to idiots. SO I DON'T CARE! :-) One final note. Defining proof can be difficult and we may never have smoking guns in our hands. Many trees are brilliantly put together on positive circumstantial evidence, sound logic and common sense. This may end up being the case (or not). But I will not leave these people scattered and disconnected all over the file because I don't have a smoking gun. It don't work that way :-) Nel

Since y'all have been working on the Amish Hatcher's I'm assuming most of these are located around the Amana's and Mennonite communities. lab I don't know where my mind was this morning when I put Idaho in the subject line.............should have been Iowa.   I'll go back to sleep now.zzzzzzzzzz...........   Nancy --- On Thu, 7/3/08, nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> wrote: From: nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> Subject: Idaho Hatcher's cemetery listings with photo's To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:58 AM In doing a search for Hatcher I got 65 hits.............includes tombstone photo's http://www.iowagravestones.org/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't know where my mind was this morning when I put Idaho in the subject line.............should have been Iowa.   I'll go back to sleep now.zzzzzzzzzz...........   Nancy --- On Thu, 7/3/08, nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> wrote: From: nancy hatcher <nancy_hatcher12@yahoo.com> Subject: Idaho Hatcher's cemetery listings with photo's To: hatcher@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 8:58 AM In doing a search for Hatcher I got 65 hits.............includes tombstone photo's http://www.iowagravestones.org/

In doing a search for Hatcher I got 65 hits.............includes tombstone photo's http://www.iowagravestones.org/

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood I have my census already - thanks, Jim! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Would some kind cuzin with ancestry please look up Ben* Mitch* in 1830 WilkinsonCo, GA and tell me what we've got? Ancestry is being cranky for me. I would also appreciate one of our jawjuns with info on Benj Mitchell shipping me this info. Tanks!! Nel

Be careful on the location thing, as you stated in your earlier theories, different family lines sometimes cross paths in the same location during the migration and lottery periods. Coincidence or related? What we need is some records!!!!!! Lets go back and read some of the Bible records, William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. M Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! -----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of nelhatch Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:09 PM To: HATCHERLIST Subject: [HATCHER] William Leighton Hatcher - for what it's worth.......... HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Another possible connection found? I noticed the name Benjamin McKinney in the 1826 BibbCo Davis estate records. Benjamin was the father of Sophronia McKinney, one of the wives of Wm Leighton Hatcher, the gson of Wm/Pris and s/o Wm H/Martha. And I find Ben M in the 1830 BibbCo census, unmarried, which matches our recs showing his 1st kid wasn't born til c1835. While Wm H has not been found in the 1830, there are a number of clues that he was in the Bibb/Twiggs area. This all doesn't prove squat but puts another individual from Wm/Pris in the same area with Dempsey and Liz Tharp. Location! Location! Location!!! Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1529 - Release Date: 7/1/2008 7:23 PM

I'm going to have to read and study all of this and compare it to what I got in my file several time before I start trying to shoot any holes in it! Maybe later tonight? William W. Hatcher Sr. Milledgeville, Ga. M Phone: 478-454-3468 God Bless America! -----Original Message----- From: hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:hatcher-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of nelhatch Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:49 AM To: HATCHERLIST Subject: [HATCHER] Maj John - my theory in more detail......... HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Good morning, All I'm going to lay out more reasons I still believe Maj John is son of Tom/Wilmoth. And I will now say I strongly believe Wm/Priscilla, currently attached as s/o Robert/Ann San---, is ALSO a son of T/W. Also keep in mind that Tom was the brother of the infamous JAMESTON. Ann Knibb Hatcher, mother of Tom, Jameston and Nancy disappeared from ChesterfieldCo sometime after 1764 [important date]. She appears in the 1790 LaurensCo, SC census. We do not know where she was in that gap but son Tom was there before 1770 and Jameston by 1772. The assumption will be that this old woman came with her sons and daughter. ....Nancy was the mother of the Milam/Hatcher family, father unknown. ........son Fleming lived on Rabun creek near the Newberry/Union Co lines. ....Tom/Wilm lived on Peters creek on the border of Newberry/Union Cos. Switching to Wm/Priscilla and Maj John. William's RW pension states he was born 1759 in MecklenburgCo, VA. Our last VA record for Tom/Wilm is 1761 ChesterfieldCo. If Tom is Wm's father, Wm was likely born in Chest. But children [absent birth records] do not know where they were born unless told. This may simply have been a belief on his part based on some long past and vague conversation. It should be noted that anyone moving to GA would pass thru Lunenburg/Mecklenburg. While we have no records [yet] showing the presence of this family in Lun/Meck, it's certainly not impossible that they remained there for a few years before moving on and may be the source for Wm's belief he was born there. Keep in mind he was only 5 yrs old in 1764 when his family arrived in GA. "Moved from Virginia in 1764 [note this date is the date Anne Knibb Hatcher disappears from VA] with his father and settled in Richmond Co. Georgia, five miles below Augusta, from whence he removed to Edgefield Co. S.C. where he first entered service about June 1778 as a volunteer private of infantry under state authority under command of General (Howe ??) in Colonel (Leroy) Hammond's Regiment, Major Purvis, Captain Ryan's Company.----- in Edgefield District S.C." It is the above record and the 1767 record of a Robert Hatcher with 5 kids applying for land in Augusta 4 miles below Augusta that is the reason for attaching Wm as a son of Robert. Robert's wife was believed to be Ann Sanders which supposedly explains the presence of the Sanders middle name in a number of Hatcher kids. The marriage record of Robert and Ann is found in AmeliaCo, VA but the record is torn and her name can only be read as Ann San. Joyce Harrison's research into this never found any Sanders family in Amelia but she did find the Sandifer family. We cannot prove from this that Ann's name was Sanders. No Ann has ever been found in the GA recs to prove AmeliaCo Ann was ever the wife of a GA Robert. I cannot explain at this time where the Sanders name came from but I also see nada evidence that Ann Sanders [if that was her name] was the source. During our years of research I came to believe that there was more than one Robert Hatcher in GA - the above Robert who appears to have always lived in/near Augusta [and never in SC per Wm's pens app] and the other Robert with land in the northern Columbia/Lincoln/Elbert Co area [which happens to be directly across the Savannah river from where Tom Jr, s/o TomWilm, was living on Turkey creek. This Robert may also be another son of Tom/Wilm. Another record for Robert of Augusta shows his arrest along with Edward Hatcher and Jacob Colson. My best research shows Jacob to have come from EdgecombeCo, NC, the home of John/Mary Hancock who had a proven son, Robert. I now believe Robt of Augusta has no connection to Maj John or Wm/Pris and that it was the best assumption available to believe John and Wm [along with several others] were Robert's sons. I also now suspect that the Robert of Augusta is the same Robert found in 1790 EdgefieldCo, SC with a John Hatcher living next door [both living alone] and that it is this Robert who died c1800 in Campbellton, SC [directly across the river from Augusta]. His estate was meager and no family member was involved in the settlement nor was there mention of children. Augusta was a "major city" at that time and would be an obvious destination for those migrating to this area. Many purchased land and remained. It is apparent that Wm's father did not stay but removed to SC. Note also that Wm arrived in 1764 but Robt did not apply for land until 3 years later. It could be a mistake for us to assume that while in GA that Tom would necessarily purchase land. The leasing of land was as much an option as purchasing. If this was the case, this would be one explanation why no records have been found for Tom's presence in GA. We do know he purchased land in 1770 on Peters creek, SC and may have been there somewhat earlier. We have oodles of military recs on the GA Hatcher boys with all of them believed to be sons of Robert. But these recs hi-lite some major differences. While "battle" recs on Maj John are non-existent, it is obvious he was career military. Wm also spent 2-3 years, beginning in 1778, as a soldier and it should be noted he joined in SC, not GA. [See his recs online]. He continued in the military in ElbertCo, GA, and [by memory] attained the rank of Captain. It should also be noted that Tom/Wilm was a Captain in 1778 SC. Another strong military connection. On the other hand, the rest of the sons of Robert are only shown as short term [2-3 mos] volunteers in the GA Militia in 1780 when the British were attempting to take GA. There is only one rec found that shows Wm in the same company with these other Hatcher boys, but Wm's recs will show he was assigned to many companies and battles, perhaps being sent to wherever troops were needed. This one interaction would not constiture proof of a close family connection. In 1820 we can place Wm/Pris in WilkinsonCo, GA, the home of Maj John. By 1830 he has moved on to MeriwetherCo, GA. We can put him in the same box with Maj John but never with the Hatchers of the Augusta [RichmondCo] area. Now for those still reading this tome....I have yet to find a record to disprove this theory [or even raise a serious niggly] but one woman's assessment does not make for proof. I would appreciate any of you who are familiar with this family or any who can ask the relevant questions to make every effort to tear this apart. I am solidly conviced this is right. I need you to unconvince me...before I start rearranging the file :-) But this does not end with just John and Wm. Once you start ripping sons from a father's breast and giving them new daddies, you open up new worm cans. Sons may need to be replaced. Other Hatchers whose connections are less convincing may become more obvious and more rearrangements may occur. This could and probably will become a major project with many possible twists and turns..........so I will be grateful for any input along the way. Have at it!!! Oh - one final point. If Maj John and Wm were connected to Robert's family, they would be descendants of Ben/Liz. Yet their DNA tests match descendants of Edward. Tom/Wilm were Ed descendants. Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1529 - Release Date: 7/1/2008 7:23 PM

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Another possible connection found? I noticed the name Benjamin McKinney in the 1826 BibbCo Davis estate records. Benjamin was the father of Sophronia McKinney, one of the wives of Wm Leighton Hatcher, the gson of Wm/Pris and s/o Wm H/Martha. And I find Ben M in the 1830 BibbCo census, unmarried, which matches our recs showing his 1st kid wasn't born til c1835. While Wm H has not been found in the 1830, there are a number of clues that he was in the Bibb/Twiggs area. This all doesn't prove squat but puts another individual from Wm/Pris in the same area with Dempsey and Liz Tharp. Location! Location! Location!!! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood Good morning, All I'm going to lay out more reasons I still believe Maj John is son of Tom/Wilmoth. And I will now say I strongly believe Wm/Priscilla, currently attached as s/o Robert/Ann San---, is ALSO a son of T/W. Also keep in mind that Tom was the brother of the infamous JAMESTON. Ann Knibb Hatcher, mother of Tom, Jameston and Nancy disappeared from ChesterfieldCo sometime after 1764 [important date]. She appears in the 1790 LaurensCo, SC census. We do not know where she was in that gap but son Tom was there before 1770 and Jameston by 1772. The assumption will be that this old woman came with her sons and daughter. ....Nancy was the mother of the Milam/Hatcher family, father unknown. ........son Fleming lived on Rabun creek near the Newberry/Union Co lines. ....Tom/Wilm lived on Peters creek on the border of Newberry/Union Cos. Switching to Wm/Priscilla and Maj John. William's RW pension states he was born 1759 in MecklenburgCo, VA. Our last VA record for Tom/Wilm is 1761 ChesterfieldCo. If Tom is Wm's father, Wm was likely born in Chest. But children [absent birth records] do not know where they were born unless told. This may simply have been a belief on his part based on some long past and vague conversation. It should be noted that anyone moving to GA would pass thru Lunenburg/Mecklenburg. While we have no records [yet] showing the presence of this family in Lun/Meck, it's certainly not impossible that they remained there for a few years before moving on and may be the source for Wm's belief he was born there. Keep in mind he was only 5 yrs old in 1764 when his family arrived in GA. "Moved from Virginia in 1764 [note this date is the date Anne Knibb Hatcher disappears from VA] with his father and settled in Richmond Co. Georgia, five miles below Augusta, from whence he removed to Edgefield Co. S.C. where he first entered service about June 1778 as a volunteer private of infantry under state authority under command of General (Howe ??) in Colonel (Leroy) Hammond's Regiment, Major Purvis, Captain Ryan's Company.----- in Edgefield District S.C." It is the above record and the 1767 record of a Robert Hatcher with 5 kids applying for land in Augusta 4 miles below Augusta that is the reason for attaching Wm as a son of Robert. Robert's wife was believed to be Ann Sanders which supposedly explains the presence of the Sanders middle name in a number of Hatcher kids. The marriage record of Robert and Ann is found in AmeliaCo, VA but the record is torn and her name can only be read as Ann San. Joyce Harrison's research into this never found any Sanders family in Amelia but she did find the Sandifer family. We cannot prove from this that Ann's name was Sanders. No Ann has ever been found in the GA recs to prove AmeliaCo Ann was ever the wife of a GA Robert. I cannot explain at this time where the Sanders name came from but I also see nada evidence that Ann Sanders [if that was her name] was the source. During our years of research I came to believe that there was more than one Robert Hatcher in GA - the above Robert who appears to have always lived in/near Augusta [and never in SC per Wm's pens app] and the other Robert with land in the northern Columbia/Lincoln/Elbert Co area [which happens to be directly across the Savannah river from where Tom Jr, s/o TomWilm, was living on Turkey creek. This Robert may also be another son of Tom/Wilm. Another record for Robert of Augusta shows his arrest along with Edward Hatcher and Jacob Colson. My best research shows Jacob to have come from EdgecombeCo, NC, the home of John/Mary Hancock who had a proven son, Robert. I now believe Robt of Augusta has no connection to Maj John or Wm/Pris and that it was the best assumption available to believe John and Wm [along with several others] were Robert's sons. I also now suspect that the Robert of Augusta is the same Robert found in 1790 EdgefieldCo, SC with a John Hatcher living next door [both living alone] and that it is this Robert who died c1800 in Campbellton, SC [directly across the river from Augusta]. His estate was meager and no family member was involved in the settlement nor was there mention of children. Augusta was a "major city" at that time and would be an obvious destination for those migrating to this area. Many purchased land and remained. It is apparent that Wm's father did not stay but removed to SC. Note also that Wm arrived in 1764 but Robt did not apply for land until 3 years later. It could be a mistake for us to assume that while in GA that Tom would necessarily purchase land. The leasing of land was as much an option as purchasing. If this was the case, this would be one explanation why no records have been found for Tom's presence in GA. We do know he purchased land in 1770 on Peters creek, SC and may have been there somewhat earlier. We have oodles of military recs on the GA Hatcher boys with all of them believed to be sons of Robert. But these recs hi-lite some major differences. While "battle" recs on Maj John are non-existent, it is obvious he was career military. Wm also spent 2-3 years, beginning in 1778, as a soldier and it should be noted he joined in SC, not GA. [See his recs online]. He continued in the military in ElbertCo, GA, and [by memory] attained the rank of Captain. It should also be noted that Tom/Wilm was a Captain in 1778 SC. Another strong military connection. On the other hand, the rest of the sons of Robert are only shown as short term [2-3 mos] volunteers in the GA Militia in 1780 when the British were attempting to take GA. There is only one rec found that shows Wm in the same company with these other Hatcher boys, but Wm's recs will show he was assigned to many companies and battles, perhaps being sent to wherever troops were needed. This one interaction would not constiture proof of a close family connection. In 1820 we can place Wm/Pris in WilkinsonCo, GA, the home of Maj John. By 1830 he has moved on to MeriwetherCo, GA. We can put him in the same box with Maj John but never with the Hatchers of the Augusta [RichmondCo] area. Now for those still reading this tome....I have yet to find a record to disprove this theory [or even raise a serious niggly] but one woman's assessment does not make for proof. I would appreciate any of you who are familiar with this family or any who can ask the relevant questions to make every effort to tear this apart. I am solidly conviced this is right. I need you to unconvince me...before I start rearranging the file :-) But this does not end with just John and Wm. Once you start ripping sons from a father's breast and giving them new daddies, you open up new worm cans. Sons may need to be replaced. Other Hatchers whose connections are less convincing may become more obvious and more rearrangements may occur. This could and probably will become a major project with many possible twists and turns..........so I will be grateful for any input along the way. Have at it!!! Oh - one final point. If Maj John and Wm were connected to Robert's family, they would be descendants of Ben/Liz. Yet their DNA tests match descendants of Edward. Tom/Wilm were Ed descendants. Nel

Me thinks y'all are at least opening the door a crack. I'm rootin' for WW to come out of that closet pretty soon. He is sure working hard at gettin' out. lab From: nelhatch <nelhatch@hills.net> >Date: 2008/07/01 Tue PM 11:27:16 CDT >To: hatcher@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [HATCHER] An interesting GA mystery......... > >HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com >HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm >"If you can't stand the skeletons, stay out of the closet" - Val D Greenwood > >W W (and all), > >First, if you are giving her the name of JANE Elizabeth based on this record... > >Georgia Cherokee Land Lottery, 1832 >Number - 240, District - SEVENTH DISTRICT, FIRST SECTION, CHEROKEE. Jane Hatcher, Residence - (Whipple's) Wilkinson Co. widow. > >Note the 1832 date. This is Jane Hatcher, WIDOW of James Hatcher who died 1832. Elizabeth Tharp was not widowed until 1834. > >The most important problem with Maj John is that there is not a single record in the hundreds we've accumulated that ever ties John to any parents or directly to any other Hatcher in all of GA. > >SO! I think this is the hottest stick of dynamite I've stumbled on in a long time! > >And will list a few details for your consideration..... > >Proven > >1) Tom/Wilmoth were md in a time frame making it possible to have Maj John in 1757. > >2) Tom/Wilmoth were in SC by 1770. > >3) Maj John first shows up in 1779 (age 22) in a military record. It does not ID his state of residence. > >4) Maj John in WilkesCo in 1792. > >5) Liz Hatcher Tharp is born 1793, state unknown. > >6) Maj John in WarrenCo, GA in 1794. > >7) Dempsey is bn 1797 in Edgefield, SC, s/o Tom Jr/Martha. > >8) Liz md John Tharp, WarrenCo, GA 1809. > >9) Maj John moves from Warren to Wilkinson in 1810. > >* According to W W's notes, Liz and John moved to Twiggs (or BibbCo) by 1811. > >10) Dempsey is in BibbCo before 1826. > >I have uploaded the 5 John Davis estate recs to Demp's page at http://hatcherfamilyassn.com/getperson.php?personID=I5459&tree=WmtheIm > >Cross check those many names on those pages and compare them to the names mentioned in W W's notes, particularly the Davis family. A Tharp dau md a James Davis, likely connected to John Davis of the estate sale. > >I think being able to place Demp directly in the middle of the Tharp/Davis families is way more than a coincidence, particularly considering we have been unable to connect Maj John to anyone else until now. > >We do know there's no evidence of a Demp as a son in John's family. > >While it's not possible (so far) to determine the relationship, I would have to say Demp, Liz, and Maj John are very closely related, not as John's kids but his nephew and niece. > >I think this could be a real YA-HOO situation :-) > >Now we really need to firmly prove it with more records or stronger circumstantial evidence. > >Nel > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HATCHER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message