HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Winnette, This goes in my Obit folder since I don't have a clue who she is. Thanks! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Winnette, It took me a minute to figure out that clicking on my name brings up my Profile page but all that is there is the one request I made 3 days ago. I also went back into FAQs and still found no info on photo requests directed to the requestor. The answers all related to photo volunteer how-tos. That is not to say I couldn't have overlooked it but even in the most obvious places, I couldn't find anything. Back to that rabbit hole :-) Nel

Nel, This is the only other Hatcher on FAG in Dallas Co. AL. It has a couple of children & a husband listed in the obit. Didn't know if you had this one. Winnette http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Hatcher&GScnty=49&GRid=13176834& Mary Elizabeth Benjamin Hatcher, 60, of Selma, AL died January 7, 2006 in Reform, AL. Services are scheduled for Saturday 14, 2006 at 2:00pm at Christian Grace Apostolic Church officiated by Bishop James Marshall. Burial in Elmwood. Directed by Miller Funeral Service. Survivors include spouse, Mr. Willie Hatcher; five sons, Joe Cleveland, Recolo Cleveland, Napoleon Cleveland, Willie James Hatcher, Michael Hatcher; four daughters, Lelia Garaner, Bobbie Caver, Joann Cleveland, Frances Cleveland Harvey; 4 bothers, Richard Benjamin, Warren Benjamin, R.C. Benjamin, Lewis Benjamin; 4 sisters, Rose White, Erlene Rose, Mattie Benjamin and Kattie Benjamin; 27 grandchildren; 1 great grandchild; 4 sons-in-laws; 1 daughter-in-law; 1 bother-in-law; 1 sister-in-law; host of nieces, nephews and other relatives. She was preceded in death by her parents, Mr. Lorenzo and Mary Benjamin; 1 brother, Lorenzo Benjamin, Jr and 1 sister, Lillie Bell Benjamin. Pallbearers are family and friends. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 091023-0, 10/23/2009 Tested on: 10/24/2009 8:19:14 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Tim wrote: "In instances where there is no marker for an FAG request that you claim, there is an option to recommend removal of the photo request, but not to remove the memorial itself." I think this is touching on one of my concerns. Many months ago I put in a request for a photo for someone I had questions about, not being at all sure this person would have been buried where it was claimed he was buried. I do remember that the death date given was in the mid to late 1800s so not at all recent. I never rec'd a response. There is much info on submitting photos or data and how the volunteer process works. I think I saw where volunteers could access a list of all the requests they've processed. But there was nothing to show that a requestor could access a list of their requests. You state that you as a volunteer can recommend removal of a request but not removal of the memorial. So I'm left wondering the following..... Did anyone ever accept my request? Is it still sitting in limboland waiting for a volunteer? Did a volunteer find the cemetery but not a marker and not notify me, perhaps just "removing my request"? Was this a "lost cemetery" that no one could find or had ever heard of? Did the cemetery now have another name with the name as entered by the original submitter lost to history? It would certainly seem the most desirable method of handing a "no marker" or "no cemetery found" situation would be to do as Tim mentioned - add a note to that memorial's page stating his findings. But at the very least, let the requestor know. As it stands, I feel like my request fell down the rabbit hole :-( Nel

Some of the entries that I have included on FAG for the Hites family, I have had to base on family lore that has been passed down. I was told where family members were buried that have no markers. In those instances, I try to remember to include that there are no markers in the area for plot info. There is one example of one of my ancestors who had an illegitimate child with another man before marrying into the family. According to family members, he is buried above her with no marker. I didn't want to leave him out because of a lack of hard proof. So I did what I thought was best and added a notation in the bio. In instances where there is no marker for an FAG request that you claim, there is an option to recommend removal of the photo request, but not to remove the memorial itself.

Ok! Whew!! Tom and Sarah are my gguncle and aunt, so we're good!! Thanks! Heather In a message dated 10/23/2009 5:18:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Hah! I included 2 non-Hatchers - Tom Hooper and wife, Sarah Anderson. Mea culpa! Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nel, Seven??? Oh dear, I only count 5 in our records. I have Canveston (d. 1963), Margaret Lucile (d. 1915), Thomas Fayette (d. 1958), Violet A. (d. 1949), and Zulu Pearl (d. 1962) . . . all with surname Hatcher. Are there a couple of females under a married name that I've forgotten about? Heather In a message dated 10/23/2009 4:55:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Heather, Yes! We've got 7 Hatchers buried in El Monte. Thanks! Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ah, sorry Nel. The cemetery's legal name is Savannah Memorial Park, but is also known as El Monte Cemetery in Rosemead, CA. Weird things happening with my email. A whole slew just came in at once and a bunch went to my spam folder, so sorry for the delay in responding. Heather In a message dated 10/23/2009 2:28:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Heather, A most excellent write-up on what is likely very common in many older cemeteries. But you've sent me so much stuff over the years and you didn't mention the name of your cem. So I can't confirm if you sent it to me or not :-( Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Another thought that no one has mentioned. On older death certificates, when a cemetery name is given as the place of burial, that may not be the name that the cemetery is known by today. I have many family burials (in the old "Bluegrass state") that will list a name of a cemetery that I am not familiar with and later discover that it must have been known by that name in the early years but currently has a different name. Especially true if it started as a family cemetery and later became associated with a church. Debbie Hammonds

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Hah! I included 2 non-Hatchers - Tom Hooper and wife, Sarah Anderson. Mea culpa! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Heather, Yes! We've got 7 Hatchers buried in El Monte. Thanks! Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Debbie, Sometimes you can resolve this issue using USGS. They have many historical names and/or alternate names listed. I've found a number of creeks by searching for the name in that very old deed and finding alternate names, including the current name. Doesn't work all the time but always worth a try. And many times you may not find the cemetery listed but will find the [historical] church of the same name. I have sometimes run into problems when people give me the name of a cemetery that can't be found on fag but on USGS, up pops the church. Further digging discovers that this "church" cemetery had been turned over to the city/town and now has a new name. I'm now trying hard to include aka names on our files. Gets confuzin' sometimes :-) Nel Nel

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Thank you, William!! Another one bites the dust! Nel

In Germany, they bury on top of the previous burials. My sister-in-law was from there, and when her Mother died she went over there for the services, etc. When she went back for her Father's burial, someone else was already buried in her Mother's plot. I don't know how you would keep up with that type thing. My Barrow family is buried under the runway at Eglin Field in Florida. The marker there does not list the individuals, only the family name. Therefore, I have no proof by today's standards for their burial. I have the old listing for the Barrow Family Cemetery, prior to Eglin Field. However, when new cemetery books are done, they do not bring forward the data for those no longer found. Grady County, Georgia Cemetery book published last year, did not indicate several cemeteries that still existed in the 1950's and were listed in the old Cemetery book, but, can no longer be found. So sad..... Winnette --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 091022-0, 10/22/2009 Tested on: 10/23/2009 4:35:22 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com

Yes, Rena, a scanned death certificate can be attached as other, under photo's. I have a couple of Citizenship Documents on a couple of mine. So any document that is scanned in jpg format can be added. Winnette --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 091022-0, 10/22/2009 Tested on: 10/23/2009 4:11:53 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com

Nel, I just went through Oregon. My 20 requests just finished off the state. All Hatchers on Find-A-Grave now have photos, pending requests (mine or those of others) or notes that state no marker is found in the cemetery. Best regards, William

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Heather, A most excellent write-up on what is likely very common in many older cemeteries. But you've sent me so much stuff over the years and you didn't mention the name of your cem. So I can't confirm if you sent it to me or not :-( Nel

I'm a volunteer for a very, very old pioneer cemetery in Southern California (the oldest protestant cemetery in SoCal) and we've recently completed the daunting task of photographing every visible headstone and monument in the cemetery (approx. 3,900 burials, many with no headstone, though) and posting them at FAG in a complete listing of our known burials which had been uploaded to FAG earlier. (Nel, I believe I sent you the Hatcher burial data in this cemetery some years ago.) I use the words "visible" and "known burials" because in our efforts to preserve this historic site, we have come across evidence of conflicting data. For instance, we have a headstone (pink marble, very nice) for a married couple plainly visible in the cemetery. It has their names engraved on it and their dates of birth (note: birth only, no death dates for either). In researching this, we have found that this couple sold their plots back to the cemetery, both have died, and both appear to be buried in another cemetery in another state! We also have published obituaries stating that burial took place in our little cemetery and the cemetery has no record of it. We are also discovering stones that have sunken and gotten buried (two from 1880!!). I've also spoken with family members who had a death certificate stating their relative is buried there and the cemetery has no record of it. A journal was found by a researcher which had been written by a woman who had been pregnant when a man entered her and her husband's store and, in the process of robbing the store, he fired his gun wounding the pregnant woman. She survived, but unfortunately, her baby did not. She tells how the family went to the cemetery (on their own), dug a grave and buried the baby, and that was it. The cemetery has no record of this burial either, which if I recall correctly was in about 1874-75). And then there are cases where people have posted a burial at FAG in our cemetery and we have proven that the person is actually buried at another local cemetery. One gentleman contacted us and requested the burial location of two family members. We had no record of either, but he was able to describe to me where, in the cemetery, he recalled the burials were located (having visited the graves many years ago). With that description, I was able to hone in on two graves that according to records contained burials, but it was unknown who was buried there. In other words, there are any number of circumstances that can cause conflicting data. This being a very, very old cemetery, we sort of expect these conflicts and roll with them as best we can. Many of our "residents" have no headstones or markers. That doesn't mean they aren't buried there and we would never make that assumption. We have many instances where a stone, especially for a couple, was made and placed when one of them died. The date of death is clearly engraved for one but not the other. Just because that one date of death is missing, doesn't necessarily mean that that person is still living. In fact, in many instances that person has died and is, in fact, buried there, but nobody in the family (if there was family to see to it) took the time or effort to see that the date of death was engraved on the stone. Didn't mean to get so lengthy. There are just so many possibilities in researching our families. You must take what you find (especially user submitted data such as is on FAG) and verify it yourself. We place flags on our veterans' graves at appropriate times and several of them do not have headstones. We know they are there, though, and still place a flag. Heather In a message dated 10/23/2009 7:27:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Winnette, You're not stepping on anyone's toes. What we have here are viewpoints from different ends of the spectrum and different goals. The problem is that while "you" may know exactly where a family member is buried, the researcher who is looking for hard evidence cannot be sure in the absense of hard evidence. When a researcher sees unsourced data on a site such as WC and sees dozens of copycats with the same data, it's not possible to know where the data came from or who first put it out there. It is, as Tim stated, nothing more than hearsay. It may be right or wrong but is useless to the serious researcher looking for proof. It's nothing more than a "maybe", a clue to follow. The same is true of fag. There is no way [at the present] to determine if Winnette is correct but Jane Doe is not correct in their individual submissions. I see this as a difficult problem for fag to solve. Having an unknown cemetery section may be fine but it seems the purpose of fag is to link individuals to specific cemeteries. The problem is more with those who claim a burial in a certain cemetery that cannot be proven. But since text entries can be made, such as obits, why couldn't that area be used to explain the exact circumstances of an unmarked or unprovable burial? When someone with family history explains that family history, it becomes more valuable to the researcher. The copycatters entering garbage they found on someone else's file could not adequately give that kind of personal explanation and their data would then become much more suspect to the researcher. Just a thought.......... And just some thoughts on the GA DCs you're working with. You may have already discovered this but I've found potential problems with DCs from all states when burial location is given as, for example, "Thomasville, GA." Further searching finds that there are x number of cems in Thomasville, including a city cemetery. Don't assume burial was in the city cem. I've also found burials listed as XYZ cem only to find out later, complete with tombstone pic, that the burial was actually in ABC cem. The informant may have given a best guess on where the deceased would be buried only to have the family bury him/her elsewhere. Ain't nothin' certain in this world 'cept death and taxes. Nel ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HATCHER website: http://hatcherfamilyassn.com HALL DNA project: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~nhatcher/hall/HDNAtest.htm "One of the tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a brutal gang of facts" - La Rochefoucauld Shirley, I wouldn't dream of giving you a hard time about this :-) While I can't comment one way or the other about European cemeteries, you are perfectly correct about New Orleans and other low level areas of LA. I understand that most new NO burials are now above ground. But there are still the older below ground burials and newer ones on land that is high enough not to expect to flood. But I remember seeing pics after either Katrina or the following hurricane of caskets uprooted and scattered over acres and acres of land. For the families involved, that has to be an emotionally difficult ordeal to go thru. Nel

We were in Switzerland a couple of years ago and our tour guide took us to the cemetery that appeared in the Sound of Music. The story took place in Austria but was filmed in Switzerland. It was the cemetery where the Family hid behind the gravestones to keep from being detected by the Germans who were looking for them. It also had the wrought iron fence in front of it and was connected to the Abbey at the back. It is really much smaller than it appeared in the movie. However, my point is that we were told that the plots there are actually rented by families to bury their dead, often one on top of the other and when the last member of the family dies it is rented to someone else. The history in these European countries goes back so far that they have run out of room to bury the dead side by side. When we were in New Orleans sometime back, they had a similar system with a compartment where the older bones were swept to the back and the recently deceased placed in the grave until the next death happens and the process is repeated. They had problems with the water table being so close to the surface that sometimes the caskets started popping to the top and floating around. Don't ask about the cement type vault most of us use, I don't know but with the flooding of New Orleans lately, I imagine they have a real problem. Don't give me a hard time about this Nel. This actually happened and still does. We are fortunate in this country to have the room to bury our dead so far. When land becomes too valuable and is needed for other purposes, we too will have choices to make about our cemeteries. Shirley Hatcher Ross