Hi to all I had posted to the list some years ago regarding the chancery cause of 1828/29 in Southampton Co Va. and what I noted was a very different set of facts than had been assumed. This was regarding the estate of "Lewis Harris the Elder" I had obtained the ENTIRE chancery cause(numerous pages) 10 years ago from microfilm on one of my several visits to the Lib. Of Va. and not just relying on the decree that was the only part published in the magazine I had some real issues with Joel Harris son of Edward and Mary Thorpe Harris (later Myrick) being the father of the 10 siblings. Others had issues with trying to determine the father of Olive named in Mary Myrick's will and still others had different problems since Joel, above, had somehow been determined to be the father. Rightfully, they could not get facts to add up if this Joel had been their father. Another decided that the Joel of Edward and Mary went to NC died there many years later and that practically the entire number of children over the years would straggle back into Sourthampton to marry over the period of years between 1770's and at least the late1780's. . The same one also decided that Joel was still a minor and someone had to admin. his part of his father's estate and that was the reason for item #10 below. The "dc'd" behind the name shows clearly that important clues were overlooked, ignored, or this person did not actually look at the record and relied on someone else's work which was not verified. Whatever the case, the Joel for whom Mary relinquished her rights was DEFINATELY DEAD. Joel Harris, son of Edward and Mary Thorp Harris Myrick, has been cited as the father of the 10 siblings named in the initial suit/ Chancery cause of 1828 & 29. in Southampton Va.However, there is evidence that he was NOT the father. Below are the reasons why ,based on actual hands on research over a period of many years. I can pretty much recite from memory names , general dates etc. of pretty much all the Harrises (cousins included) around Southampton and other names as well. Far more than I ever wanted or needed to know. Keep in mind that new year was not what it is today and dates from Jan, to March usually have one year with slash and then next year. Ex.1749/50 . In many countries and regions the new year had started on Jan.1 for over a century(some longer) but England and its dominions did not start change from March to January 1 until 1752 . For that reason dates for those months included both years in some of the records. Joel’s years of birth range from 1718- 1728 based on father’s will and his apparently being of age in later Southampton court records. 1) We know that Joel born to Edward and Mary was a minor when his father wrote his will in 1739 in Isle of Wight Co. Va. Per his will , he named Joel and Lewis as not of age. 2) Joel would have been BORN LATER than circa 1718 to have been under 21 at the time his father wrote his will in 1739. 3)Southampton Co. Virginia was created from a portion of Isle of Wight in 1749 4)In 1749 Lewis Harris (brother of the above Joel) was appointed Constable in Southampton Co. per court order book 1 I could not find another Lewis there at the same time. To be 21 at appointment he could not have been born later that 1728 or born earlier than circa 1718 to have been a minor in his father's will. 5) Joel Harris is sued by David Adams dc’d estate Dec. 14, 1749 Southampton Order Bk. 1 but is dismissed for want of prosecution (would have been of age to be sued) 6) Joel Harris gives oath March 8, 1749/50 Court Order Bk 1 p. 39 between Edmund Pate and William Rose.(again would have to be of age to give oath) 7)Joel Harris paid on Ap(April) 26, 1750 1 pd. 2shilling debt to the estate pf Col. John Simmons dc’d Southampton Will Bk. 1 pp 61-64(his pmt. noted on page 61) brother Lewis is on p. 64 same large estate record. 8) Joel Harris is appointed Constable Aug. 9, 1750 Southampton Order Bk. 1 p.79 . There is only one Joel mentioned in Southampton Co. records at this time. To have been constable he would have been born NO LATER than 1829. 9) June 13, 1750 Deed Bk 1 p 143 The property line of Joell Harris is mentioned in the deed of another person on 3 Creeks 10)This is where the life of Joel Harris ends and the business related to his death begins. Recorded Jan. 10, 1750/51 Southampton Court Order Bk. 1 p.127 is the following : Owen and Mary Myrick relinquish their" right" of administration of the estate of “Joel Harris dc’d” to Edward Harris. The keyword here may be RIGHT as I cannot locate an order giving her admin. and if he died without surviving wife or children then Mary(his mother) was his closest relative with the right. There is absolutely no guardian bond or any mention anywhere for children's part among any court records or protection of any minors rights or sums given from an estate to raise them anywhere. In the many years of court records for Southampton after 1750 out of 10 children there would definately have been something 11) Edward Harris assumes role as administrator of estate of “Joel Harris dc’d” Jan. 10, 1750/51 Southampton Court Order Bk. 1 p. 127 just under the relinquishment by Owen & Mary Myrick. 12)An order to appraise the “real and personal estate” of “Joell Harris decea‘d” is ordered Jan. 10, 1750/51 per Southampton Court Order Bk. 1 p. 128 13) Court Order Bk 1 p. 298 is found 2 entries Edward Harris as admin. of Joel Harris dece’d” is awarded debt from John Rose and 2 items down on same page Edward as admin of “Joel Harris dec’d” sued William Spence to collect debt owed estate. After this the name Joel Harris disappears for a number of years until: 14) Court Minute Book 1790-93(pages numbered oddly) back of page 86 and page 87 we find where the exc. of Amos Harris dc’d asking a stay in the proceedings of a judgement against them obtained by “Edward Harris admin. of Joel Harris dc’d” , Edward asks the same and it is granted.. From Edward’s records and his apparent problems(many) with estates for others it is entirely possible that this is EXACTLY the same JOEL years later. I have never located a final accounting and I think that perhaps his land may have been absorbed into lands of a family member. No deed of Joel's land being conveyed at any time, at least not in his or his estate's name. The “deceased” cannot be any clearer than items 10-14 He cannot become any more dead than this. How is it possible that a minor in 1739 attained his majority , married and managed to have 10 children (of the suit)WITH ALL 10 LIVING TO HAVE FAMILIES and then die about 1750 . No orphans bonds, no guardian bonds located., no estate distributed, nothing. The odds of having 10 children to be born and live to adulthood and not having some losses of other children in infancy would have not have been consistent with the times and to have lost some children (as infants) would have made the total children even higher in the span of 10 years!!! Not only that but at least 2 of the daughters assigned to him did not marry until the 1780’s (one in 1782 and another in 1786) , which if they were Joel’s they would have been in their upper 30’s , closer to 40 and still managed to have large families. These marriages are recorded in Southampton. Many of the accepted and now numerously published reports and genealogies do not add with the facts if they assign the Joel of Edward Harris and Mary to the siblings in the suit. While some of the sons and sons-in-law of Edward and Mary bought and sold land in NC, deeds show that they were of Southampton Co. As a matter of fact I cannot find any evidence that the sons or daughters of Edward and Mary ever actually lived in NC Some of the grandchildren and many of the cousins(some of like names) lived in NC but the names of Edward and Mary's children appear consistently over the years in Southampton. They inventoried estates (which would have been impractical if you were living in another state) ,even down to plates and hogs, were present at estate sales and left trails regarding their own estates. I have been at work steadily on the probable father of the 10 children of chancery suit , ruling out many and that will come soon after exhausting all other possibilities. Hint: people often married more than once and when more uncommon names can be definately associated with one (in their later years) then likely there were 2 marriages. There is some indication that some of the Harrises were Quakers , others either not practicing or were of another faith. Hope this helps someone Mary