Sandy, I'm slow at reading the Harris List mail. I just noticed your Estes information from 8/20. I also trace my Estes line to Abraham Estes and Barbara Brock through their son Elisha Estes (Sr), b 1703, St. Stephen's Parish, New Kent Co, VA. and Mary Ann Munford. Elisha Estes Sr died in 1782 in Henry Co, VA. They had a son Elisha Estes Jr, b 1729 in Henry Co VA who married Frances Bottom. I'm descended from their dau Dicia Dicey Estes who married Jesse Kirby. The Kirby's son, Elisha died in Madison Co KY. Elisha Estes Jr and Frances Bottom also had a son Elisha Estes (I term him, III), b1754 of Henry Co, VA and died in Madison Co Ky. Elisha Estes III married Nancy Harris, a dau of Henry Harris and Annie Bird Harris. Henry Harris was born 16 June 1742 in Orange Co, VA, lived in Henry Co VA before migrating to Madison Co KY where he died 28 Jan 1835. The family would have moved to Madison Co KY between 1790 and 1798. His property lay very close to Christopher Harris' as noted in a deed dated abt 1825. From my notes, "On 1 Apr 1816, he attended estate sale of Wm Harris, deceased, purchased a waistcoat, a pair of shears. Other Harris's at sale were Foster Harris, Overton Harris, and Polly Harris." Henry and Ann had 5 dau's and probably 1 son, Zebulon Harris. From my notes, "Zebulon is BELIEVED to be son of Henry Harris. Zeb married Elizabeth Dillingham dau of Joshua and Sarah Graham (lst wf) Dillingham. Joshua's Dillingham's 2nd wf was Winnifred Harris dau of Henry Harris and probable sister to Zebulon...Winifred Harris Dillingham would be the step mother of Elizabeth Dillingham, Zebulon's wife.." Are any of Zeb's descendants researching the family and are there any DNA records for this family? I, personally, daughter'd out with Henry and Annie Bird Harris. Thanks to all who contribute to this list. I really enjoy it. Unfortunately, I'm still searching for any proof of Henry Harris's (b.1742) parents. Any info is greatly appreciated. Wanda Thomas Flesher On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Sandra Hart <sandyhart@mac.com> wrote: > Ira, Thanks anyway - - still hoping to work my way thru the ca 1700 John > and William Harrises to establish our John Harris line. At least John's > wife, Susannah Wingo, had a distinctive name! Her family probably came to > Amelia Co from King Wm Co > > But even that might not be as tidy as I'd like. James Hargraves believes > that John Harris might have been married to another woman before Susannah > with whom he might have had additional children. James has further > suggested that "our" John was a son of Lt Thomas and Judith (Edwards) > Harris, (who have been claimed by a different Harris y-DNA group as their > ancestors). > > Pst Seaver and I have also considered the possibility that the William > Harris ("of Surry County") who owned land and slaves on Deep Creek in the > SE corner of Amelia Co might have been our John's brother. He had a son > William, who in turn had a son Hamlin. Does anyone know more about this > family? There is no evidence that the elder William actually lived in > Amelia Co, by the way, just owned land. > > Matthew Harris appeared in Amelia Co as early as 1739. He was associated > with our John in court cases and by location. Could he have been another > brother of "our" John? Or another son by an earlier marriage? > > A John Harris who was arrested for swearing and drunkenness in 1735 Amelia > Co. Was this "our" John? Or a teenaged son by a 1st wife sowing his > Colonial wild oats in the local tavern. Pat Seaver's and my John Harris > didn't show up in Amelia Co for sure until 1736 (tax list, land purchase). > In 1737 he became a constable in Amelia Co. > > Our John probably had the following children: > Rhoda (married Abraham Vasser in 1748, Amelia Co. They moved to Halifax > Co, VA. Abraham's brother Nathaniel married Sarah Hudson, d/o Peter and > Mourning Hudson and niece of Judith Hudson w/o Wm Harris of Bluestone > Creek). Rhoda was sufficiently older than "our" William that there's > speculation she was d/o an earlier marriage. > > William (married Elizabeth, moved to Halfax Co, VA, Stokes Co, NC, and > finally Patrick Co, VA). Children included Barnard/Barnet, Tabitha, > possibly Obediah and Elijah m Nancy Lee (4GGrandgather of Sandy Harris Hart > & Pat Seaver) > > John? - son by a first marriage? A John and John Jr both listed as Amelia > Co men paid for service in French and Indian War (1754-1763). There were > two John Harrises (a younger and an older man) who lived near Harris yDNA > Group 30 men - - William and his sons Barnard and Elijah - in Halifax Co. A > John Harris (26-45 years old) was enumerated next to Harris yDNA Group 30 > men - - William and son Barnard in 1800 Stokes Co, NC. > > James? - James Harris listed as tithe for John Harris in 1669 and 1770 > Amelia Co and witnessed a deed with John in 1771. John, John Jr, and James > Harris were listed as Amelia Co men paid for service in French and Indian > War (1754-1763). > > Matthew? - Was he the same person as the man who may have been John's > brother (see above). A Matthew Harris continued to associate with John in > Amelia Co and then moved further west into Prince Edward Co. A younger > Matthew Harris showed up in 1800 Stokes Co, NC listed near William, Barnet, > and John Harris. > > Mary - Pat Seaver suggested that the Mary Harris who married William > Estes may have been d/o John Harris. Mary and Wm Estes lived in Amelia and > Halifax Co, VA and had 6 children. Pat S has a FF match with Carl Eugene > Estes (but no paper trail back to Amelia/Halifax Co Estes). While I do NOT > have a match with Carl Eugene, I do have a match with Arlie Sessions who > traces his Estes line back to Abraham Estes, Sr (1744, King & Queen, > VA-1720 King & Queen) and Barbara Brock (1667- ) through Robert Sr and Jr > to Martha m John Wrenn). Using a family tree posted on ancestry.com, I > traced the line of Mary Harris back to the same Abraham and Barbara (Brock) > Estes thru son Moses (1711-1788) to William Isaac Estes (1744-1780) m Mary > Harris (1746-1782). This tree didn't include the descendants through Robert > given by Arlie Sessions, so I'll have to contact him and do some more > research. > > If I've got this right, my DNA may have finally given me a link back to a > yDNA Group 30 ancestor! If this online tree is correct, she would have > been a much younger sister of our William. Sadly it provided no hint about > Mary's parents. And, I found a "connection" rather than the source of the > DNA match. > Sandy > > On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Ira Harris wrote: > > > Sandy, > > > > Unfortunately No. All I have in my database is what is listed in the > citation. > > The clues may be in the Guy, Trevalian, or Woolfolk families. > > I have not done any research about this family and its' connections. > > I have been working in the Carolinas and Alabama/Mississippi. > > > > Ira > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HARRIS-HUNTERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- * For Freedom's Sake - Love God, Love America*

Dear Wanda, Let's go to your last paragraphs below.  Have you any clues as to the probable residences of Henry Harris, the dates, the names of the children, etc.? In 1742, Henry's stated birth year, Virginia' boundaries were barely getting to the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains.  Orange Co. and Prince William Co. (both of which later divided), were on *the frontier*.   (Source:  Michael F. Doran, Atlast of County Boundary Changes in Virginia, 1634-1895 [Athens, GA:  Iberian Publishing Co. 1987] [now called, I believe, New Papyrus Publishing, still in Athens] I covet my eight volumes of Cavaliers and Pioneers, but the Library of Virginia Land Patents (online) may help you narrow down where the parents of Henry Harris may have been hanging their axes (hats).  Go to the topic Land Patents (the subject will include the Northern Neck land grants).  The earliest land grants (covered by the abstracts in above-mentioned eight volumes of Cavalies and Pioneers) will be at the very end of the LONG lists for Harrises!!!!  (The oldest patents are at the end.) I heard a couple of lectures in the past five years by Thomas W. Jones, who until rather recently was co-editor of the National Genealogical Society Journal (quarterly).  He gave me a lot of hope, as my Dad's ancestors all (except for some colonial Germans) had common names.  Jones lectured on collecting all the bits and pieces of the jigsaw puzzles; they don't fit when you stumble on them, but they may in the future. Also, he says--watch those naming patterns!!!!  (Of course, I cannot believe all those Overton Harrises are cousins!!!!  I am descended from one Overton Harris, son of Christopher Harris who died testate [both of them did--died testate] in Madison Co., KY.) Again, what were the names of the children of your Henry Harris?  And Thoma W. Jones believes in *inferential genealogy*.  (With common surnames, one needs a lot of inference--especially if they were in burned counties!!!) Another lecture by Jones was on *inferential genealogy*.  I like that.  You have to infer a lot, but it helps to know (or keep learning) history and geography of the places you are studying.  I had to learn early on that my great-grandmother, quite a bit younger than her elderly spouse, had made an error in giving her deceased spouse's birthplace in Kentucky. At the time, he was born that part of Kentucky between the Mississippi and the Ohio rivers belonged to the Chickasaw Indians!!!!  Back to square one--until my aunt sent me transcriptions of old letters which she and a cousin had discovered in an old trunk at the old ranch house.  Ah--another place to study in Kentucky!!!  And maternal cousins in Illinois and Missouri!!! A few years ago, I spent half a day at the Orange Co. VA courthouse as we were vacationing in that area.  The deed indexes of early date were so full of names which I recognized as antecedents of my Rev. Andrew Tribble (early Baptist minister in and around Madison Co., KY.)  I ordered quite a few photocopies of the indexes alne [no deeds], but the clerk, who was quite timid, had to confer with her supervisor.  The supervisor would let me have only about ten photocopies, and the underclerk said, She is afraid you will put them on the internet!!!!  I thought to myself, this clerk is behind the times!!!!  As she was speaking someone was probably already inputting!!!  Orange Co. ca 1740s was the Virginia frontier on the North and Brunswick Co. was the frontier on the south.  (I discovered some of my early Surry Co. and Isle of Wight families were later found in Brunswick county, a huge county!!!) Good luck with your colonial and later Harrises! E.W.Wallace ________________________________ From: Wanda Flesher <w.flesher@gmail.com> To: harris-hunters@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] Speculating about John Harris (yDNA Group 30) of Amelia Co, VA Sandy,  I'm slow at reading the Harris List mail.  I just noticed your Estes information from 8/20.  I also trace my Estes line to Abraham Estes and Barbara Brock through their son Elisha Estes (Sr), b 1703, St. Stephen's Parish, New Kent Co, VA. and Mary Ann Munford.  Elisha Estes Sr died in 1782 in Henry Co, VA. They had a son Elisha Estes Jr, b 1729 in Henry Co VA who married Frances Bottom.  I'm descended from their dau Dicia Dicey Estes who married Jesse Kirby.  The Kirby's son, Elisha died in Madison Co KY. Elisha Estes Jr and Frances Bottom also had a son Elisha Estes (I term him, III), b1754 of Henry Co, VA and died in Madison Co Ky.  Elisha Estes III married Nancy Harris, a dau of Henry Harris and Annie Bird Harris.  Henry Harris was born 16 June 1742 in Orange Co, VA, lived in Henry Co VA before migrating to Madison Co KY where he died 28 Jan 1835.  The family would have moved to Madison Co KY between 1790 and 1798.  His property lay very close to Christopher Harris' as noted in a deed dated abt 1825.  From my notes, "On 1 Apr 1816, he attended estate sale of Wm Harris, deceased, purchased a waistcoat, a pair of shears. Other Harris's at sale were Foster Harris, Overton Harris, and Polly Harris." Henry and Ann had 5 dau's and probably 1 son, Zebulon Harris.  From my notes, "Zebulon is BELIEVED to be son of Henry Harris.  Zeb married Elizabeth Dillingham dau of Joshua and Sarah Graham (lst wf) Dillingham.  Joshua's Dillingham's 2nd wf was Winnifred Harris dau of Henry Harris and probable sister to Zebulon...Winifred Harris Dillingham would be the step mother of Elizabeth Dillingham, Zebulon's wife.."  Are any of Zeb's descendants researching the family and are there any DNA records for this family? I, personally, daughter'd out with Henry and Annie Bird Harris. Thanks to all who contribute to this list.  I really enjoy it. Unfortunately, I'm still searching for any proof of Henry Harris's (b.1742) parents.  Any info is greatly appreciated. Wanda Thomas Flesher On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Sandra Hart <sandyhart@mac.com> wrote: > Ira, Thanks anyway - - still hoping to work my way thru the ca 1700 John > and William Harrises to establish our John Harris line.  At least John's > wife, Susannah Wingo, had a distinctive name! Her family probably came to > Amelia Co from King Wm Co > > But even that might not be as tidy as I'd like.  James Hargraves believes > that John Harris might have been married to another woman before Susannah > with whom he might have had additional children.  James has further > suggested that "our" John was a son of Lt Thomas and Judith (Edwards) > Harris, (who have been claimed by a different Harris y-DNA group as their > ancestors). > > Pst Seaver and I have also considered the possibility that the William > Harris ("of Surry County") who owned land and slaves on Deep Creek in the > SE corner of Amelia Co might have been our John's brother. He had a son > William, who in turn had a son Hamlin.  Does anyone know more about this > family? There is no evidence that the elder William actually lived in > Amelia Co, by the way, just owned land. > > Matthew Harris appeared in Amelia Co as early as 1739. He was associated > with our John in court cases and by location. Could he have been another > brother of "our" John? Or another son by an earlier marriage? > > A John Harris who was arrested for swearing and drunkenness in 1735 Amelia > Co.  Was this "our" John?  Or a teenaged son by a 1st wife sowing his > Colonial wild oats in the local tavern.  Pat Seaver's and my John Harris > didn't show up in Amelia Co for sure until 1736 (tax list, land purchase). > In 1737 he became a constable in Amelia Co. > > Our John probably had the following children: > Rhoda (married Abraham Vasser in 1748, Amelia Co. They moved to Halifax > Co, VA.  Abraham's  brother Nathaniel married Sarah Hudson, d/o Peter and > Mourning Hudson and niece of Judith Hudson w/o Wm Harris of Bluestone > Creek). Rhoda was sufficiently older than "our" William that there's > speculation she was d/o an earlier marriage. > > William (married Elizabeth, moved to Halfax Co, VA, Stokes Co, NC, and > finally Patrick Co, VA). Children included Barnard/Barnet, Tabitha, > possibly Obediah and Elijah m Nancy Lee (4GGrandgather of Sandy Harris Hart > & Pat Seaver) > > John? - son by a first marriage?  A John and John Jr both listed as Amelia > Co men paid for service in French and Indian War (1754-1763). There were > two John Harrises (a younger and an older man) who lived near Harris yDNA > Group 30 men - - William and his sons Barnard and Elijah - in Halifax Co. A > John Harris (26-45 years old) was enumerated next to Harris yDNA Group 30 > men - - William and son Barnard in 1800 Stokes Co, NC. > > James? - James Harris listed as tithe for John Harris in 1669 and 1770 > Amelia Co and witnessed a deed with John in 1771.  John, John Jr, and James > Harris were listed as Amelia Co men paid for service in French and Indian > War (1754-1763). > > Matthew? - Was he the same person as the man who may have been John's > brother (see above). A Matthew Harris continued to associate with John in > Amelia Co and then moved further west into Prince Edward Co. A younger > Matthew Harris showed up in 1800 Stokes Co, NC listed near William, Barnet, > and John Harris. > > Mary -  Pat Seaver suggested that the Mary Harris who married William > Estes may have been d/o John Harris.  Mary and Wm Estes lived in Amelia and > Halifax Co, VA and had 6 children. Pat S has a FF match with Carl Eugene > Estes (but no paper trail back to Amelia/Halifax Co Estes). While I do NOT > have a match with Carl Eugene, I do have a match with Arlie Sessions who > traces his Estes line back to Abraham Estes, Sr (1744, King & Queen, > VA-1720 King & Queen) and Barbara Brock (1667- ) through Robert Sr and Jr > to Martha m John Wrenn). Using a family tree posted on ancestry.com, I > traced the line of Mary Harris back to the same Abraham and Barbara (Brock) > Estes thru son Moses (1711-1788) to William Isaac Estes (1744-1780) m Mary > Harris (1746-1782). This tree didn't include the descendants through Robert > given by Arlie Sessions, so I'll have to contact him and do some more > research. > > If I've got this right, my DNA may have finally given me a link back to a > yDNA Group 30 ancestor!  If this online tree is correct, she would have > been a much younger sister of our William.  Sadly it provided no hint about > Mary's parents. And,  I found a "connection"  rather than the source of the > DNA match. > Sandy > > On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:27 AM, Ira Harris wrote: > > > Sandy, > > > > Unfortunately No. All I have in my database is what is listed in the > citation. > > The clues may be in the Guy, Trevalian, or Woolfolk families. > > I have not done any research about this family and its' connections. > > I have been working in the Carolinas and Alabama/Mississippi. > > > > Ira > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > HARRIS-HUNTERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- *         For Freedom's Sake - Love God, Love America* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HARRIS-HUNTERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message