pat   if this edward harris, sr, wife, ann, is the  same of both louisa co, va and lunenburg/ charlotte co, va   and the son of our william harris/ mary giles, the info i have seen on him states that he was born ca 1710 and this edward  harris, wife, ann, would not have been old enough to have  been the father of my william harris, sr/ frances goode.   again, as i have cited many times both my william harris, sr/  frances goode; my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers; my  mackerness goode, sr; his son, our mackerness goode, jr;   john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley; theirs son, cornelius cargill/ wife, sarah, all obtained these ca 1770 grants there in laurens co, sc where it is shown they continued to be involved with each other there.   my william harris, sr/ frances goode obtained a grant for 300 acres and my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers obtained a grant for 150 acres.  actually, both their grants were applied  for in 1768.   according to sc patent law at this time, you were allowed 100  acres as headright and 50 additional acres for ones wife;  children/ males, who were under the age of 16; and for each slave and/ or servant.   this shows that in 1768 my william harris, jr and frances  rodgers were married but that they had no children.  so, if you  subtract about 20 years from 1768, you get 1748, which is  indicated to have been about when my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers would have been born.   again, i know from a laurens co, sc deed that our william harris,  jr/ frances rodgers was the oldest son of our william harris, sr/ frances goode, who died somewhere intestate by 1796 but it was not in laurens co, sc.    again, despite having gotten this ca 1768/ 1772, 300-acre  grant there in laurens co, sc, there is no evidence that my  william harris, sr/ frances goode ever moved to laurens co, sc or that he died there.   again, since my william harris, jr/ frances goode is indicated to  have been born ca 1748 and to have been the oldest, and for now, the only son of our william harris, sr/ frances goode, if you subtract 20 years from 1748, you get 1728, which, again, is indicated to have been the approximate date of when my  william harris, sr/ frances goode would have been born.   actually the lunenburg co, va info indicates that my william  harris, sr/ frances goode were married by 1746.   again, this was my william harris, sr/ frances goode, who, is shown to have been the overseer for william marable's plantation, finneywood, there in 1746 in lunenburg co, va.   again, a suit ensued re my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william marable and my mackerness goode, sr; his son, our samuel goode gave affadavits re this suit.   our mackerness goode, sr attested that our william harris, sr  and his wife, our frances goode, had moved on to marables'  property in 1746 but does not state that they had any family at  this time.   i repeat all of this not only to show my william harris, sr/ jr's approximate, but somewhat definitive, dates of  birth, but also his earliest connections with our mackerness goode, sr and our goode family there in lunenburg co, va.   again, if edward harris, sr, wife, ann, was the same both there  in louisa co, va and also in lunenburg co, va and he was the  son of our william harris/ mary giles and who is stated to have  been born ca 1710, then, again, edward harris, sr, would not  have been old enough to have been the father of my william harris, sr/ frances goode, who was born ca 1726/ 1728.   another thing i want to look at are these deeds said to have  been for our harris family.     again, there is this louisa co, va deed wherein our edward harris, son of our william harris/ mary giles, sold land to this william harris, who is said to have been the same william harris of goochland co, va and who some have thought was the william harris, son of our william harris/ mary giles.   it is this william harris, whose daughter, agnes is stated to have  married john cawthon, and who, again, continued to live in goochland co, va.   (as an aside, and somewhat ironically, i suppose, i am married  to my husband, who is a cauthen---- but i am a harris!!!)   again, there is this louisa co, va deed wherein edward harris  sold land to this land to this william harris but also the brunswick co, va deed wherein william harris sold land also  there in louisa co, va to stephen harris and both these dates  were recorded on the very same date in the louisa co, va  orders book.   surely that is not just coincidence.     meanwhile other louisa/ hanover co, va deeds connect this  same stephen harris also with your husband's tom harris'  ancestor david harris/ jane landy richardson.   it is this william harris of brunswick co, va, who i believe was  mine and that he was william harris/ judith hudson of brunswick/ lunenburg co, va.   whereas one might have said that this was my william harris, sr/  frances goode, who sold this land in louisa co, va to stephen  harris, as i have just shown and talked about again,  my william harris, sr/ frances goode was born ca 1726/ 1728 and  he could not have been the son of our william harris/ mary giles.   instead, my william harris, sr/ frances goode is indicated to have been the son of a harris and his father, per my studying these lunenburg co, va deeds and connections, is indicated to me to have been william harris/ judith hudson.   if i saw any connections re my william harris, sr/ frances goode with this william harris of goochland co, va, i would definitely say so, but i do not.   again, in this geneagraph kathryn wiggins compiled re our captain thomas harris' line and family, and which can be found in her "harris papers"/ granville co, nc, she has that william harris/ judith hudson was one of the sons of our william harris/ mary giles, brother of your david harris/ jane landry richardson; edward harris, etc.   i agree with her not  because she says so but this is what my own research indicates.     i know that this, of course, disagrees with what lee harris and  or gideon harris thought and wrote, etc, but one needs to look at why they may have come to their conclusions and why i have come to my own conclusions.   at the same time, i am always willing to look at what you and others also find and post.   i cannot say, for now, whether descendants of this william harris of goochland co, va would be a harris match with our harris dna group 8 or not?   again, all i can say is that, per my own research, this william  harris of goochland co, va, is not indicated to have been our/ my harris ancestor and instead that my william harris, sr/ frances goode's father is indicated to have been william harris/ judith hudson also early there in lunenburg co, va.   here again are these deeds showing, as i say, that edward harris, son of our william harris/ mary giles, sold this land to this william harris and that william harris of brunswick co, va sold land also there in louisa co, va to stephen harris, which were recorded on the very same date in louisa co, va.   Louisa County Court 12th day of September 1743, page 73, An Indenture made between William Harris of Brunswick County of the one part and Stephen Harris of Saint Martin’s Parish in the County of Hanover of the other part concerning sixty two acres of land lying in the parish of Fredericksville in this County with a Memorandum of Livery of Seisin and Receipt thereon endorsed ws this day in open Court proved to be the act and deed of the said William Harris by the Oaths of James Waddy, Richard Donalson and John Adams witnesses thereto and admitted to Record. Louisa County Order Book, 1742-1743, page 41-42     Louisa County Court 12th day of September 1743, page 73 An Indenture made between Edward Harris of the Parish of Fredericksville in this County of the one part and William Harris of the Parish and County aforesaid of the other part concerning fifty acres of land lying in the Parish and County aforesaid with a Memorandum of Livery of Seisin and Receipt endorsed was this day in open Court acknowledged by the said Edward Harris as his act and deed and by the Court admitted to Record. Louisa County Order Book, 1742-1743, page 41       belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8-----26910