Very interesting Carol! Thank you! It is starting to look like my Harris line is this one. Coupled with My Charles Rice connection mentioned in an earlier post by Belva, I'm starting to be more convinced of my Harris connection to your DNA group 8. Who does this line go back to? I thought my line was through the Robert Harris/Mary Claiborne line. Del --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Carol E Barron <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Carol E Barron <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] George Alves/William Harris, St. Paul's vestry, re william harris/ henrietta baker/ william harris/ elizabeth burnett > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 5:42 PM > Del, have you looked at the below Cumberland Co. VA chancery > at the LVA > website online? It can be ordered online from the library > & they'll send > it to you. I have looked at the Thomas Harris there in > early New Kent > Co...the one w/Eliz. b 170?....I keep thinking he might be > the one who > was in the vestry records in 1692 working on the > roads....this date could > easily put him born some 20 years earlier. I also feel he > could be the > same Thomas in New Kent that was named as a father to > Lettice Bayle's > bastard child in winter 1698/99. Very suspicious that > Thomas Moss would > take care of her & then to see that chancery of Charles > Toney/wife vs > James Moss...a Moss connection?? > > Also, the Toney's named a son Sherwood Toney, a name I > haven't found in > the Toney's but does show up in the Harrises. In the > Partridge Store > Accts., there is a Sherwood Harris in the 1736 time > period...giving him a > possible birthdate of 1715 & most likely > earlier...could it be Elizabeth > had a brother Sherwood Harris??? Records there in > Partridge Store Accts > show the Sherwood Harris there is tied in with Richard > Henderson & both > of these men end up in Louisa Co. records in 1743-46 > timeframe on Cubb > Cr....Cubb Cr. being some of the land belonging to William > Harris (1725 > patent on Cubb) & our DNA Gp 8 line. I could send > those Partridge Store > Accts to you, if interested and actually I was emailed > recently from a > Sherwood Harris/Hannah Page researcher who has been trying > to put his > Sherwood Harris back to Hanover Co. in 1730'ish period. > Carol > New Kent Co. Vestry minutes: > Whereas Lettice Bayle was delivered of a bastard Child at > the house of > Thomas moss sum time the last winter, and being summonded > to Court upon > her oathe doth lay the same to Thomas Harris. Therefore > ordered that the > Church wardens prosicute the said Harris according to Law. > > > > Locality Index Number Original Case Number > CUMBERLAND CO1767-005NONE > PlaintiffsDefendants > P1: CHARLES TONEY & WIFE D1: JAMES MOSS ETC > Surnames > MOSS > PETERS > TONEY > Wills Plat? > NONENO > Format > Original > > > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:05:27 -0800 (PST) DEL HIESTAND > <[email protected]> > writes: > > Hi Carol > > My name is Delbert Calvert Hiestand and I am a Harris > descendant > > from an Elizabeth Harris who married Charles Toney abt > 1725. I read > > your several posts and feel secure that "you know > your stuff". I am > > wondering and if you have an opinion on who the > parents of > > Elizabeth(baptized in 1705/7 St. Martins Parrish)and > who married > > Charles Toney, might have been?? > > I appreciate any input!!!! > > Del > > > > > > --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Carol E Barron > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > From: Carol E Barron <[email protected]> > > > Subject: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] George Alves/William > Harris, St. Paul's > > vestry, re william harris/ henrietta baker/ william > harris/ > > elizabeth burnett > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 8:36 AM > > > Belva, you wrote: > > > the only william harris i know who had a patent > for 1500 > > > acres in 1725 is > > > stated to have been the william harris, jr, said > to have > > > been the son of > > > captain william harris/ temperance overton. > > > > > > > > > George Alves was the step-father to younger sons > Wm & > > > Edward of Maj Wm > > > Harris d 1678. We know these two sons were in > New Kent > > > records from 1692 > > > - 1698. > > > > > > The St. Paul's Vestry records begin in > 1704/05...with > > > George Alves > > > serving on the vestry board in the first > recording of the > > > vestry...with > > > Edward Harris as surveyor in 1703/4 & William > Harris, > > > surveyor in 1706. > > > George Alves continued to serve on that vestry > until > > > 1730(except to make > > > a trip to Great Britain 1711/12). In 1716 Wm > Harris was > > > admitted to the > > > vestry with George Alvis as a member of the > vestry board > > > that day and > > > from that point forward until 1727, both George > Alvis and > > > William Harris > > > served on the same vestry board together until Wm > Harris > > > & James Overton > > > were replaced on the board on 2 Jan 1726/27 by > Thomas > > > Anderson & Charles > > > Hudson. > > > > > > I cannot see how George Alves and William Harris > who also > > > processioned > > > their adjoining lands together in 1707, serving > on this > > > vestry board > > > together for 10+ years (1716-1727) could be > anything but > > > "step-father & > > > step-son". My findings are that the William > Harris, > > > surveyor of the > > > Forks, vestryman, church warden with military > rank of > > > Captain was, in > > > fact, the son of Major William Harris d 1678 > Henrico Co. > > > Edward Harris, > > > surveyor in 1704 was also a son of Major William > Harris. > > > These two sons > > > of Maj Wm were raised among surveyors within the > Ligon > > > family....their > > > Aunt Mary & Uncle Thomas Ligon were a family > of > > > surveyors...with Col > > > Thomas Ligon appointed Royal Surveyor of Henrico > County. > > > Col Thomas > > > Ligon also served alongside Major William Harris > as both > > > Burgesses of > > > Henrico Co....their son Richard Ligon tutored his > > > orphan/cousin William > > > Harris in 1682/83 by indenture...Richard Ligon is > in a > > > Henrico Co. record > > > in 1680 as being a surveyor at that time. > > > > > > One issue that might have confused those who > authored the > > > old published > > > articles was perhaps they weren't aware that > > > surveyor's were privy or had > > > access to inside knowledge of good land/deals > & some > > > surveyors ended up > > > accumulating mass quantities of land in that > regard as did > > > surveyors like > > > Peter Jefferson & George Washington. With so > many land > > > patents for > > > William Harris in New Kent/Hanover Co. made it > look as > > > though there were > > > many William Harrises and some articles did > narrow it down > > > to 3 Wm's for > > > Hanover Co., however, that's not what I > found. > > > > > > Profile of Major William Harris d 1678 Henrico > Co. VA > > > includes positions > > > of Burgess and was serving as a Justice of the > Henrico > > > Orphans' Court > > > just a few days before his death. Major William > served as > > > Burgess > > > 1652-57 & served together as Burgesses with > Thomas > > > Ligon in 1655/56. > > > > > > The research of Malcolm H. Harris stated that the > 1725 Cubb > > > Cr. William > > > Harris (aka "Third William Harris of Hanover > > > Co.") was "without rank or > > > any other identifying information other than his > > > association with George > > > Alves in the records of St. Paul?s Parish and > patents of > > > adjoining lands > > > in Hanover County" was incorrect and this is > the > > > statement that has > > > misled & confused many researchers from DNA > Groups of 6 > > > & 8 for some time > > > & finding our research crossing over into the > supposed > > > territory of the > > > Wm/Temp line & also involved in records with > some in > > > that line. > > > > > > It is DNA Gp 8 that does carry several lines that > show the > > > Overton middle > > > name with proof that one line had that name as > early as > > > 1750'ish. How > > > all of those male Harris names fit into the > picture coming > > > down from Capt > > > William Harris can only be explained by more than > one > > > marriage by Capt > > > William Harris. We do know that Mary was the > wife of > > > William in a > > > 1692/93 Henrico Co. record...she doesn't show > up in any > > > record after that > > > & we really don't know how many sons they > had > > > together & if she died & he > > > then married an Overton or he could have had > multiple > > > marriages in his > > > lifetime. I can see the possibility of an > Overton marriage > > > from the 1706 > > > vestry minutes where two Robert Anderson's > (Sr. & > > > Jr.) were on the vestry > > > board when William had made application for the > vestry > > > & it's my > > > understanding that one Robert Anderson was > married to an > > > Overton and in > > > 1716 William Harris was voted into the vestry in > place of > > > Robert Anderson > > > dec'd. > > > > > > I'm not an expert & don't have all > the answers > > > except to say that I > > > studied & stayed focused on this time frame > coming down > > > from Maj William > > > Harris to the early New Kent records and have > accumulated > > > proof records > > > for my findings & can say the process of this > was well > > > over a year in the > > > study. I add a disclaimer that the above > findings have > > > been my own and > > > for every other researcher to search & draw > their own > > > conclusions. > > > > > > Carol > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:12:01 -0800 (PST) belva > cauthen > > > <[email protected]> writes: > > > recently this deed re william harris/ henrietta > has been > > > discussed > > > > and as i went back and reviewed, i noted > that it had > > > been discussed > > > > in the past and this same deed posted a > number of > > > times, including > > > > the following post by e.w., which gives a > lot more > > > info per this > > > > deed. > > > > > > > > i have both some questions and some > comments. > > > > > > > > as shown, per this deed re william harris/ > henrietta, > > > it states that > > > > it was part of the 1500 acres which was a > patent to > > > this william > > > > harris'/ henrietta father. > > > > > > > > the only william harris i know who had a > patent for > > > 1500 acres in > > > > 1725 is stated to have been the william > harris, jr, > > > said to have > > > > been the son of captain william harris/ > temperance > > > overton. > > > > > > > > that patent for 1500 acres is described as > being on > > > elk creek > > > > adjacent james overton. this patent here is > described > > > as being on > > > > the north fork of little river at the mouth > of > > > horsepen swamp. > > > > > > > > so, are these different descriptions for the > same > > > patent? > > > > > > > > how is it known that this william > harris' wife, > > > henrietta was a > > > > baker? is there a marriage record or some > other info > > > stating or > > > > showing this? > > > > > > > > also, how is it known that the william > harris, jr, who > > > obtained this > > > > patent for 1500 acres in 1725 was married to > elizabeth > > > burnett? > > > > again, is there some record of this? > > > > > > > > are there any actual deeds for this william > harris/ > > > elizabeth > > > > burnett? > > > > > > > > again, the following version of this same > deed which > > > pat posted and > > > > discussed recently had been posted earlier > by e. w. : > > > > > > > > She indicates her source is a deed in > Louisa Co., VA. > > > She abstracts > > > > Louisa > > > > Co., VA DB 2-298, 24 Apr 1759. > > > > > > > > A fuller abstract of this deed is found in a > > > later-published book of > > > > Louisa > > > > Co., deeds. I will copy it here for the use > of other > > > Harris-Hunters. > > > > > > > > (Please cite the sources if you use this > material.) > > > > > > > > [Louisa Co., VA DB B-298-300] 24 Apr 1759 > William > > > Harris of > > > > Fredericksville > > > > Par., Louisa Co., and Hennerittah, his wife, > to Martin > > > Baker of St. > > > > Martin's > > > > Par., Hanover 325 pds currt. money. 350 > acres in > > > Fredericksville > > > > Par; part > > > > of a tract of 1,500 acres granted by patent > 24 Mar > > > 1725 to one > > > > William Harris > > > > by records of Williamsburg and by sd. > Harris, who was > > > the father of > > > > sd. > > > > William Harris, gave unto his son in his > Last Will and > > > Testament > > > > recorded in > > > > Hanover Co. Land lyeth on north fork of the > Little > > > River ... at the > > > > mouth of > > > > Horsepen Swamp, up sd. Swamp to Benjamin > Bibb's > > > line ... near the > > > > head of the > > > > old mill pon(d) crossing the River south. > > > > > > > > Wm. Harris > > > > Henrita Harris > > > > Wit: David Smith, Thos. Rice., Jos Goodman. > > > > 24 Apr 1759 acknowledged by William Harris > and > > > Renrita, his wife who > > > > declared > > > > her consent. > > > > > > > > (Rosalie Edith Davis, LOUISA COUNTY, > VIRGINIA DEED > > > BOOKS A AND B, > > > > 1742-1759 > > > > [Bellingham, WA: Published by author, 1976], > p. 142) > > > > > > > > > > > > belva harris cauthen > > > > harris dna group 8--------26910 > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Click here to find the perfect picture with our > powerful > > > photo search features. > > > > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1aBnCoyhlum1qIdn3S6wyO4 > 9yPPMRvMbp7Qe8k0A90ImAnc/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > [email protected] with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and > > > the body of the message > > > > > > > > > >