e.w.   first of all, i want to thank you for helping out gloria and for all of the help and suggestions you have given to others on harris hunters.   i also want to thank you for putting on harris hunters a copy of the book re st paul's parish, new kent/ hanover co, va by c. g. chamberlayne.   i have seen bits and pieces from the book but never the whole book and i would like to say that after having seen the whole book that i have a better perspective of what this info says and shows, but i do not.   i have looked at this info twice now and if i looked at it a third and a fourth time, i think i would come to the same conclusion, which is that i do not see in looking at this how one could say conclusively that this william harris, who became vestryman, was your william harris/ temperance overton or our william harris/ mary giles.    on the one hand, if you look at this info, george alvis, who was the stepfather of our william harris/ mary giles and his brother, edward harris, who were known to have been in new kent co, va by 1694 with george alvis, was apparently a vestryman there in st paul's parish for life and an important member of the vestry.   even when george alvis returned to england and, seemingly, was gone for quite some time and, as the info states, john glenn refused to become a member of the vestry in george alvis' place until it was known that george alvis would return from england and could say whether he wanted to continue to be a vestry man or not.   george alvis did return from england and continued to be a vestryman there at st paul's parish some time after he had returned from england.   so, who better to influence the vestry and/ or our william harris/ mary giles than george alvis and to see that it was our william harris/ mary giles who also became a member of the vestry.   on the other hand, there is also the info in the book which associates this william harris also with james overton and says that james overton became vestryman in the house of william harris.   so, this is certainly a puzzle, as i say, as to which william harris, definitely became a vestryman as other things re our harris dna group 8 and harris dna group 6 have been and continue to be a puzzle.   i have to agree with carol when she says that it does not makes sense that our william harris/ mary giles, who was the son or our major william harris of henrico co, va and who was raised by his stepfather george alvis, who, as just shown, was a longtime, influential member of the vestry there in st paul's parish in new kent/ hanover co, va, would have just been this mere william harris who obtained this patent for this land on cubb creek in 1724 and that was that.   in fact, at one point, carol suggested that the william harris, said to be william harris/ temperance overton, was the same person as our william harris/ mary giles and when i look at some of this info and these connections, etc, i have to wonder the same thing, except, again, there is this whole other harris dna group 6, who are definitely shown to have not been related to our harris dna group 8.   again, and obviously there is a harris dna group 6 who are totally a different harris family from our harris dna group 8 but, and if this has been asked before, i do not remember seeing where is there any actual proof other than someone, like malcolm harris wrote and said so, that there was a william harris married to a temperance overton?   in fact, what exactly did malcolm harris have to say?  again, i have not seen his book or books?   i do know that, again, per the info, malcolm harris stated that mr william harris and captain william harris were the same and that this was william harris/ temperance overton.    so, every patent which was for either captain william harris or mr william harris, malcom harris ascribed to him, william harris/ temperance overton.   of  course, malcolm harris also said that this was william harris/ temperance overton's son, william harris, jr, who had the patent for the land on elk creek.   the only other patent malcolm harris did not ascribe to william harris/ temperance overton was, again, the 1724 patent on cubb creek which he did ascribe to our william harris/ mary giles, although i am not sure he indentified him or said in his book or info that our william harris/ mary giles was the stepson of our george alvis and son of our major william harris of henrico co, va.   again, i understand that there is a whole other harris dna group 6, who are a different harris dna group, and even a different haplotype, from our harris dna group 8 and who say they they descend from captain william harris/ temperance overton, which would include your christopher harris/ mary dabney/ agnes mc cord.   by the way, when was william harris/ tempance overton born and when did he die?  i find different dates for him.   again, all i can say conclusively is a lot of this is not conclusive and otherwise, except, again, to thank you for your input and to say, this is still confusing re our william harris/ mary giles and william harris/ temperance overton,  i am not quite sure what else to say.     of course, i would welcome yours and others comments in what you see in looking at this st paul's parish info, and/ or any other of this info.       belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8-------26910