Dear Researchers of Virginia If you do much research of Virginia records, it doesn't take long to realize that a good many official records are among the *missing*. This means you have to be creative, or acknowledge in your research, that you MAY never know the answer. (So, if you speculate or presume, please label your speculation or presumption, PLEASE. Otherwise, cite your source.) A kind friend on the VA-Southside rootsweb cautioned me that the Library of Virginia indicates that LVA no longer calls the records of these counties with large gaps in their collections *burned counties*. Instead, they are called something like *Lost Records Localties.* Because NOT all the counties were burned. After receiving his e-mail, I went to the LVA website and found a listing for a finding aid of *Lost Records Localities: Counties and Cities with Missing Records*. The print-out is six pages long. I printed out that finding adi as I am off soon--I hope--to a nearby seaside vacation town with an excellent genealogical library. (I printed out their catalog of books published by The Antient Press--97 of them!!! Some I have read, but others are just off the press! With guidance from my LVA printout, I will know that I have an obstacle in my research--and that I MUST not blame the library for not having the abstracted records which I so desire. One noted genealogist-lecturer-historian-editor from Utah says repeatedly in her lectures on Virginia: If researching in Virginia, research ALL the counties. Yes--indeed. When trying to sort out some males with a common-surname in the early Lunenburg Co. area, I was able to get a clue from one Lunenburg Co. deed that these *strange* fellows who lived near my common-surname ancestors, were from a different family--with roots in Richmond Co. [Northern Neck county--not the City of Richmond]. Whew!!! I could eliminate those folks from my bunch, many of whom went to colonial Granville Co., NC. You may save yourself lots of frustration if you get some guidance from the LVA finding aid: Lost Records Localities...... E.W.Wallace who has made LOTS of mistakes but keeps trying to learn!!! **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

e.w. recently posted that janice abercrombie had published a number of louisa co, va deeds.   as i have posted in the past, william harris of brunswick co, va sold land in louisa co, va to stephen harris of hanover co, va and this transaction was recorded on the same date in the louisa co, va court records as edward harris who sold land in louisa co, va to a william harris, who was also in louisa co, va.   i do not find this deed re william harris to stephen harris in the louisa co, va deeds which janice abercrombie published.   so, was this a louisa co, va deed or a brunswick co, va deed wherein william harris sold this land to stephen harris?   Louisa County Court 12th day of September 1743, page 73, An Indenture made between William Harris of Brunswick County of the one part and Stephen Harris of Saint Martin’s Parish in the County of Hanover of the other part concerning sixty two acres of land lying in the parish of Fredericksville in this County with a Memorandum of Livery of Seisin and Receipt thereon endorsed ws this day in open Court proved to be the act and deed of the said William Harris by the Oaths of James Waddy, Richard Donalson and John Adams witnesses thereto and admitted to Record. Louisa County Order Book, 1742-1743, page 41-42     Louisa County Court 12th day of September 1743, page 73 An Indenture made between Edward Harris of the Parish of Fredericksville in this County of the one part and William Harris of the Parish and County aforesaid of the other part concerning fifty acres of land lying in the Parish and County aforesaid with a Memorandum of Livery of Seisin and Receipt endorsed was this day in open Court acknowledged by the said Edward Harris as his act and deed and by the Court admitted to Record. Louisa County Order Book, 1742-1743, page 41      belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8--------26910   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Those Harris-Hunters who research colonial Hanover Co., VA, a burned county, frequently can find references to persons who resided or owned land in Hanover Co. in the records of adjoining Louisa Co., VA, particularly in the first deed book of Louisa Co. Janice Abercrombie, a professional genealogist-author, donated her notes on some Louisa Co. deeds [not a total transcription] to this URL. Well, this is the URL for the index. The index has links to the abstracts. http://trevilians.com/deeds/deedmain.htm Another valiant volunteer undertook to index, by name, her notes. There are a few Harris males [perhaps some females, but I have not thoroughly searched], including Robert Harris, early surveyor of Louisa Co. This abstracted deed indicates that in 1733 he was of Hanover Co. Some of us, without terribly firm documentation, believe he is the son of William Harris and his wife Temperance Overton of the Pamunkey River area. Here is the abstract. Those who have studied Robert Harris for some time recognize that John Rodes/Roads [a young one, that is] became the son-in-law of Robert Harris. Book: A, Page: 526, Grantor: Bibb, Benjamin, Grantee: Anderson, David, Date: 17-Sep-1753 Benjamin Bibb to David Anderson (of Hanover) for 5 shillings, 526 acres, sold to Bibb by Robert Harris on 4 Dec 1733 (Hanover) .. beginning John Roads, Stephen Pettus, William Harris line .... This abstracted deed places Robert Harris in a time and a place. For interested researchers of Albemarle Co., VA and later Madison Co., KY, Robert Harris is the father of Christopher Harris of Madison Co., KY and also of Tyree Harris of colonial North Carolina. Tyree Harris died testate in Caswell Co. NC. He previously lived in Orange Co., NC. There were other progeny, of course. E.W.Wallace **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

I have not received any messages this week. Anything going on? MJ ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

If you are interested in Harrises [and their neighbors] of colonial Virginia and Albemarle Cos., VA, you probably would like to look over some Road Orders for these two counties, Louisa and Albemarle counties.. Other Virginia counties' road orders have also been published, but offhand, I cannot recall the counties. You might look into a search on google.com for the name Nathaniel Pawlett and also Ann Miller. Pawlett was/is Research Historian. Virginia Highway & Transportation Research Council. (Ann Miller compiled other such booklets for Virginia road orders. Ann L. Miller Senior Research Scientist / Historian Virginia Transportation Research Council. I believe she is also/ or was/ historian for Orange Co., VA, which is in the neighborhood.) Here is the URL for Louisa Co. road orders 1742-1748. The index is about page 37. Remove any extra punctuation fore and aft, which I am told is affixed by AOL, not rootsweb. _www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/75-r43.pdf_ (http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/75-r43.pdf) For Albemarle Co. _www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/75_ (http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main/online_reports/pdf/75) if these don't work, do a web search for Nathaniel Pawlett. There are other road orders and other books by Pawlett, including for Three Notched Road [have I got that right?] I think I spied a booklet about the road orders of Brunswick Co, from which several southside counties was formed, and which included folks on their way to North Carolina. E.W.Wallace **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

> Source: LOUISA COUNTY, VIRGINIA > WHERE HAVE ALL THE CHILDREN GONE? > Abstracted & Compiled by Rosalie Edith Davis > Manchester, Missouri. 1989 > > Pages 260-261. GUARDIAN BOND. Robert Harris Gdn. to Mary Harris and > Lancelott Harris orphans of Edward Harris, Dec;d.; 1,000 pounds > current money; Security William Cooke. 8 February 1796. Wit: James > Poindexter. > > Does anyone recognize Robert, Edward, Mary, or Lancelott Harris. > Are they part of the New Kent-Hanover line? Any insight is > appreciated. Please respond through HH or H-COLONIALVA so that > others may be helped. This is Edward Harris married Jerusha Davis: Douglas Register baptisms: Edward Harris & Jerusha Davis**********, Lancelot, Nov. 14 1785. Baptized Ap. 29 1787 p.118 Louisa, Virginia, Chancery Court Record Original documents - file 1801-024 Transcribed by P. Harris At a Court Continued and held for Louisa County Tuesday the 14th day of November 1797 In Chancery James Harris **one of the children and distributees of Edward Harris deceased - Complainant against William Cook & Overton Harris administrators of Edward Harris deceased and Sally Harris, Peter Harris, Mary Harris & Lancelot Harris infant children & legatees of Edward Harris decd by Robert Harris, Jr. their guardian - Respondants Bill and answer filed and On hearing; It is decreed and ordered that George _unison(?) Charles Barrett, John Smith DS and Nelson Thompson of whom any three may act do divide the estate of Edward Harris deceased amongst the distributees according to law, and the prayer of the complainants bill. And that on the Distributees giving bond & good security to the administrators of the said decedants estate, that they will refund their proportionate part in case debts should come against the said estate which at present they know not of. That then the administrators do deliver to the respective legatees their proportionable part of the said estate to be allotted by the said Commissioners. And that the said administrators do on oath make up an account of their administration on the decedants estate before the above named Gentlemen to whom it is refered to examine, State and Settle the same and that they make report to Court of their proceedings in both cases in order to a final decree. ACosry(?) Teste John Poindexter Louisa WB 4, p 92 ******* Apprais. of est of Edward Harris by Richard Jones, Elizabeth Thomasson, Robert Harris, Jr., Tho. Mitchell. 12 Dec 1796. -------------------------------------------------- Two potential children of Edward ********of Louisa Co. chancery Marriages of Louisa Co. Va 1766-1815, by Kathleen Booth Williams, 1959 2 Sep 1808. Peter HARRIS and Elizabeth McAllister. Sur. David Armstrong. p 130 p 96, 8 Jan 1798. Thomas Stubbs and Salley HARRIS. Sur. William Cooke. Married 11 January by Rev. William Cooke. p 83 Has anyone placed this Edward Harris? Pat **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

Concerning the questions about Plummer Harris, et al in the chancery suit, which I assume was ca 1804, a google.com search for Plummer Harris in quotation marks, produced this rootsweb document, submitted several years ago. If I read correctly [my eyes not totally reliable], this family may have been originally from Maryland. If the same family, Cedar Creek meeting indicates there were Quaker connections. newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/HARRIS-COLONIALVA/2006-02/newsarch.r If you find the answer to your question, please post on Harris-Hunters. The more we can get these colonial families sorted out, the better off we all will be. I understand these Virginia chancery records have recently been digitized and are on the Library of Virginia website. I have not yet studied any of them. E,W.Wallace **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

Can anyone help place Peter Harris, Richard Harris or Plummer Harris? Transcribed by Pat Harris from court documents obtained from the Library of Virginia Louisa Virginia Chancery Court 1804-022 Dism. Agreed – To the Justices of Louisa county sitting in Chancery Humbly complaining sheweth to your worships your orator Peter Harris, That a certain George Pottie has issued against your orator an attachment of the effects of the said complainant, called an attachment against an absconding debtor , has obtained a Judgement thereupon and issued an Execution amounting to the sum of _____(blank) which has been laid on the effects of this complainant. That this complainant being out of the county at the time it was issued and being engaged in his lawful calling as a millwright in the county of King William as a journeyman with a certain Plummer Harris, received no notice of this himself until the judgment was attained at the …… …… and levied on his property. And this complainant begs leave to state that the … claim was as he believes founded on an open account against which he …. (unreadable) and this complainant further states that he was not an absconding debtor, but had only left the county in the course of his work….. Next document from the file: Know all men by these presents that we Peter Harris & Richard Harris are held and firmly bound unto George Pottie in the sum of one hundred pounds to be paid to the said Pottie being exors or admors to the payment of which well and truly to be made we bind ourselves our heirs exors & admors jointly and severally firmly by these presents sealed with our seals & dated this 20th day of July, 1804 The condition of the above obligation is such that whereas the said Peter Harris has prayed and obtained an injunction to stay the proceedings at common law on a judgment on an attachment in the county court of Louisa the said George Pottie against said Peter Harris until the matter in controversy between them can be heard in equity now ift he said Peter Harris & Richard Harris do and shall well and truly pay or cause to be paid unto the said George Pottie the amount of the judgment above mentioned And also all costs and ....that shall or may arise in case the said Harris's injunction should be dissolved, then this obligation is to be void or else to remain in full force & virtue. Witness N. Poindexter Peter Harriss seal Richd Harris seal (two different handwritings for the signatures and different from the clerk's writing) Pat **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

http://www.columbian.com/article/20081007/OBITS01/310079993/-1/obituaries ROBERT HARRIS Monday, October 6 ROBERT D. HARRIS Nov. 9, 1923 ~ Oct. 3, 2008 Robert D. Harris of Battle Ground, Washington, died Friday morning at 4:55 a.m. from complications of C.O.P.D. at his home aside his wife, Pauline and daughter, Tonne. Robert was born on November 9, 1923 in Brilliant, Alabama. He lived there and New York before joining the Air force and serving in World War II. Robert married Pauline Harris in 1948 and together they raised children, Tonne and Gary. Robert worked for SP&S and Burlington Railroads for 37 years before retiring, at which time his full time job became couriering his two grandchildren, Randy and Justin to baseball practice, basketball practice, cub scouts etc... as well as teaching them the ways of the world. He is remembered as an incredibly generous and loving father and grandfather to all, always eager to engage in jovial conversation or gratuitous discussion. Robert is survived by sisters; Edith, Eddie and Julie; wife, Pauline; daughter, Tonne; son, Gary; grandson's, Randy and Justin; and granddaughter, Katrina. Visitation will be Wednesday, October 8, 2008 from 1:00-5:00 p.m. at Vancouver Funeral Chapel. Funeral services will start at 1:00 p.m. at Vancouver Funeral Chapel on Thursday, October 9, 2008. Burial will follow at Park Hill Cemetery. Arrangements are under the care of Vancouver Funeral Chapel. *** This Robert may be the son of William T. and Mary L. Harris. More research would be needed. 1930 United States Federal Census Name: Robert D Harris Home in 1930: Boston Town, Marion, Alabama Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1924 William T Harris 36 Mary L Harris 31 Edith N Harris 13 Mary A Harris 12 Willard F Harris 9 Robert D Harris 6 Loris L Harris 3 10/12 Bettie E Harris 1 5/12

james,   of course, i am aware that bill's harris ancestry would have not have been given to you until recently by bill.   until bill's harris dna info was returned recently, i had thought, of course, that he would match with our harris dna group 8 but, instead, bill matches with your harris dna group 30.   of course, i am also aware that bill certainly would know more  about and would have focused more on his own harris family than i have and, in fact, bill never went into in any detail re his own harris family with me, except that he did believe that this robert harris/ emeline williams there in 1860 in the caneland district of cleburne co, al was the father of his james harris.   again, i have thought for a long time, based, again, on the fact that robert harris/ emeline williams were living in this caneland district of cleburne co, al with our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son, our wm. abraham harris and our arch harris' brother, daniel harris, that robert harris/ emeline williams were related to our charles harris/ jane cannon; our arch harris/ elizabeth carter, etc, harris line and family.    this certainly does appear to be the same robert harris/ emeline williams also on the 1880 census for dekalb co, al and i have noted that near or adjacent to robert harris/ emeline, per this 1880 census, was this:     thomas teague, age 29, b al; narcissus teague; age 39, b ga; john h. teague, age 11; james r. teague, age 9; columbus teague, age 6; luther teague; age 1.   these teague connections are also definitely of interest to me.    there was teague family involved with our charles harris/ jane cannon in laurens co, sc and per the marriage records of benton, now calhoun/ cleburne co, al:  robert harris married emeline williams 25 september 1839 and the ceremony was performed by elija s. teague.   per the laurens co, sc records book 1785-1820 compiled by sarah nash, in 1814 our charles harris/ jane cannon and james young appraised the estate of john miller there in laurens co, sc.   john miller was married 1st to mary anderson, who was the mother of all his children; married 2nd sarah cason.   john miller's 1st wife, mary anderson was the daughter of james anderson/ margaret rodgers, who was the sister of our john rodgers, sr/ esq, father of my/ our frances rodgers harris, wife of our william harris, jr, and parents of  my/ our charles harris/ jane cannon.   this was also john miller/ mary anderson's daughter elizabeth miller, who married william teague, per the following laurens co, sc deed which i will cite.   the elijah s. teague, who married robert harris/ emeline williams in 1839 benton co, al is actually indicated to have been elijah a. teague/ sarah morgan, who died there in 1843 in benton co, al.   this elijah teague, per the info was the son of elijah teague/ alice davis, son of william teague/ isabella pennington of cecil co, md.   the william teague, who married elizabeth miller, is said to have been the son of joshua teague/ dorothy caldwell, who died in 1807 in laurens co, sc, also a son of william teague/ isabella pennington of cecil co, md.   i do not know of any connections at all re our harris family/ ancestry to cecil co, md but, interestingly, the teagues had also moved to frederick co, va and lived there the same time as my/ our richard carter, who was the great-grandfather of my/ our elizabeth carter harris, wife of our arch harris.     whereas the teagues had moved on into this laurens/ newberry cos, sc area, our richard carter/ margaret bruce moved from frederick co, va ca 1770 also to laurens co, sc.   i  do not know, so far, how this thomas teague, age 29, living near robert harris/ emeline williams, per this 1880 census in dekalb co, al,  was related to this same teague family in benton/ cleburne co, al but info would indicate that he was part of this same teague family.    patsy ford childs also states that she descends from william teague/ elizabeth miller, whose family she says also moved to benton/ cleburne co, al.   this is her info from post # 1792 of the teague forum and i have also corresponded with patsy re her interest in her chandler family:   I also descend from Teagues in Benton/Calhoun Co. Alabama, through William Teague/Elizabeth Miller's daughter Rebecca Teague who married John Maddox. John and Rebecca Maddox's, daughter, Elizabeth Ann Maddox married Barzillia Murphree, their daughter Rebecca Jane Murphree married James Perry Ford, their son Caleb Milton Ford, married Lou Allen, their son Grady Allen Ford was my father. After John Maddox-Rebecca Teague, all were born in or around Benton/Calhoun County Alabama, including myself. There are also a lot of Bryants that married into my Ford family from Calhoun and surrounding areas. here, to follow, is the laurens co, sc deed showing that john miller/ mary anderson's daughter elizabeth miller married william teague and that this was the same john miller, whose estate was appraised by our charles harris/ jane cannon and james young there in laurens co, sc.   laurens co, sc deed book K, page 65, 1814, whereas john miller, deceased, having married as his last wife sarah cason about 10/ ?/ 1807 and by deed of gift executed in the presence of william neill, esq, and john hunter conveyed to his children:  william teague and wife, elizabeth; john cason and wife, sarah; zeb matthews and wife, jane; abraham johnson and wife, ann; joseph cason and wife, rebecca; george miller; james miller; joshua smith and wife, polly; john miller; anderson miller; and william miller two tracts:  1) 600 acres on bush river where the said john miller, deceased, formerly lived and bordered on joshua teague and elijah teague; thomas and william cason; william neill and kirkland; 2) also 120 acres in newberry co, sc called chandler's mill place bordered on john level, charles crew, charles leopard and west gary; also 9 negroes and their increase; said sarah cason miller becoming  dissatisfied with deed shown to her by her husband, john miller, burned the deed and said john miller, then, died intestate 2/ 2/ 1814; said sarah now wishes to relinquish all rights and claims to title of the said land and negroes to the above named children of her deceased husband john miller.   signed:  sarah miller, her mark.  witnesses:  john munroe; john hewitt.  william neill, j.p.   laurens co, sc will book D-1, page 146, undated, but the above deed shows that john miller died 2/ 2/ 1814: appraisal of goods and chattels of john miller by charles harriss; james young; certified by william dunlap.   so, again, besides the connections i have already talked about re my interest in robert harris/ emeline williams as being part of our charles harris/ jane cannon and my arch harris/ elizabeth carter's harris family, these connections re our charles harris/ jane cannon with john miller and the teagues in laurens co, sc and the fact that robert harris/ emeline williams were married by elijah teague in benton/ cleburne co, al, etc, still indicates to me that robert harris/ emeline williams may be part of our charles harris/ jane cannon's and our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's harris family.   again, issues, like this, can only be totally solved by finding other harris descendants to participate in the harris dna project.  so, hopefully, another harris descendant of another son of robert harris/ emeline williams can be found to also participate.   regards,   belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910    

Just an addition to what EW said: It is well to remember that not all old codgers recalling family history may be correct. I have this in my Vestal files--a transcribed detailed family tree that is so convoluted it is hard to follow. The family thought is precious and gospel. Not only that, the man recounting the 'facts' was 90. He was a southern gentleman and of course spoke with a drawl. The transcriber, his grandson, wrote the names as he heard them. One name that stopped us cold in our tracks was the surname: NUBIA. It was actually NEWBY and researchers found out many years later. AND the associations as well as names of children were not provided or not known. However it is good to note that family stories can be a good starting point for sure!!!!! Peggy in CA Although many genealogical lecturers pooh-pooh old county histories, some of them are fairly accurate (factual). What you have to do is to verify each statement. If the interviewee is a grandchild, and one of the younger grandchildren, he may get things all mixed up. But, if the interviewee is the old-timer himself, hope that he is a blabber-mouth. Example: I was searching a *burned* county in Illinois and stubbing my toe because the first book of deeds for that county no longer exists--only an index, or so a professional told me [ after taking my considerable amount of money]. I found a long bio in an old county history of a man mentioned in several letters to my great-grandfather dated before his death in 1881. The old Illinois pioneer described his family's migration to Illinois and told a lot of family history. His first wife [he had three, and he named all the living children and stepchildren] was probably the sister of my GGF!!! Had he not been so garralous, I may still be stubbing my toe!!! I wish you luck. I think you may have to expand your research field. E.W.Wallace Calhoun County was created by act of the state general assembly on 18 December 1832 from land ceded to the state by the Creek Indians. Originally known as Benton County, named changed to Calhoun County 29 January 1858. County seat: Jacksonville (1833-1895) and Anniston (1895-present). **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)

Dear Mr. Hargraves, When I saw you were confused about the whereabouts of your Robert Harris of Benton Co., AL, I figured I would try to help you solve some problems. Here are some of my thoughts about some further research. Alabama was formed from Mississippi and you may have to do some research in Mississippi. Furthermore, I suspect your Robert may have been *hiding* in another jurisdiction. For one thing, the Family History Library catalog - a PLACE search - reveals that for Benton Co., AL, you have to search Calhoun Co. >From the FHL catalog entry for Calhoun, Alabama [leave out the word county--I found out the hard way] Calhoun County was created by act of the state general assembly on 18 December 1832 from land ceded to the state by the Creek Indians. Originally known as Benton County, named changed to Calhoun County 29 January 1858. County seat: Jacksonville (1833-1895) and Anniston (1895-present). You might check with Alice Eicholz's book called The Red Book, which is the source of much of the PLACE descriptions in the FHL catalog. (Frequently, you can find this book in the Reference section of your public library.) This is what the FHL catalog says about the formation of the state of Alabama Alabama became a territory in 1817 and a state in 1819. A good many Georgians did go to Alabama but probably first to Louisiana, parts of which were called Mississippi Territory, and then to Mississippi. (My Georgia folks migrated there from Granville Co., NC after the Revolution. The sons of one of these families migrated to Mississippi Territory, which was really Louisiana. Two of them fought in the Battle of New Orleans--1815, if I remember correctly.) Have you found this gentleman listed in the Bureau of Land Management land patents? You might list Alabama first, but also try Mississippi and Louisiana. _http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/_ (http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/) Click on the first tab *land patents* and do some searching. You may strike out of course--that is the problem with the surname Harris [and similar common names, of which I have a plentitude in my lineage]. Why am I telling you all this--which you probably have already done!!!??? Because, I find one of the most common problems is we are looking in the wrong jurisdiction!!! At least for the time period when we have verified our people were living there.. Although many genealogical lecturers pooh-pooh old county histories, some of them are fairly accurate (factual). What you have to do is to verify each statement. If the interviewee is a grandchild, and one of the younger grandchildren, he may get things all mixed up. But, if the interviewee is the old-timer himself, hope that he is a blabber-mouth. Example: I was searching a *burned* county in Illinois and stubbing my toe because the first book of deeds for that county no longer exists--only an index, or so a professional told me [ after taking my considerable amount of money]. I found a long bio in an old county history of a man mentioned in several letters to my great-grandfather dated before his death in 1881. The old Illinois pioneer described his family's migration to Illinois and told a lot of family history. His first wife [he had three, and he named all the living children and stepchildren] was probably the sister of my GGF!!! Had he not been so garralous, I may still be stubbing my toe!!! I wish you luck. I think you may have to expand your research field. E.W.Wallace Take a look at this URL - I think it is supposed to be subscription, but by changing the state names, I am generally able to access this URL _http://www.myalabamagenealogy.com/al_records.htm_ (http://www.myalabamagenealogy.com/al_records.htm) (http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/) Calhoun County was created by act of the state general assembly on 18 December 1832 from land ceded to the state by the Creek Indians. Originally known as Benton County, named changed to Calhoun County 29 January 1858. County seat: Jacksonville (1833-1895) and Anniston (1895-present). **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)

Belva, Thanks for the information. As you know, the descendancy chart that I made up for Bill Harris was based largely on information given to me by Bill Harris, although I did add some data of a minor nature, such as the McClain name and the fact that the parents of Robert B. Harris were both born in Georgia, presumably about 1790. Bill told me that his grandfather was John William Harris, born 1868, died 1921. I have to believe that Bill knew who his grandfather was, as most of us have personal knowledge and family records for our grandfather and great grandfather. Bill is also certain that his great grandfather was James Harris, born 1847, son of Robert B. Harris, born 1818. These 3 generations: Robert B. Harris/James Harris/John William Harris are confirmed by the Alabama census records of 1850 Benton County; 1860 Calhoun County; 1870 Clebourne County and 1880 DeKalb County. I have received copies of all of these census records and they do prove the lineage, in my opinion. I understood that this part of the Bill Harris line had already been confirmed and that your research with Bill was mostly concerned with finding the father of Robert B. Harris, and that Charles Harris had been considered a possibility, up until the time that Bill's DNA results were released. Beyond that, I haven't a clue as to the identity of the father of Robert B. Harris, at the present time. It's almost as if Robert dropped into Benton County, Alabama from outer space. Based on the 1840 census of Benton County, it appears he was traveling alone, or with individuals not named Harris. Sincerely, James E. Hargraves Harris DNA group 30. In a message dated 10/4/2008 1:30:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: james thanks again for your reply. given as we are learning that our harris families can live in the same areas and be involved with the same families and not be related, we still use and it is important to use these related and associated families to determine who are harris families and their ancestors were. so, what i am primarily interested in is whether this robert harris/ emeline williams, who bill harris believes was his ancestor, was actually bill's ancestor of if this robert harris/ emeline williams was still part of the harris family of my charles harris/ jane cannon. both wayne harris, who seems to be the same as this r.w.harris, and peggy mc farland indicate that the robert harris who married narcissus mc clain was the son of this john harris, wife, frances, and not the son of james harris/ sarah malinda turner. again, this wayne harris also indicates his interest in this same john harris, wife, frances as peggy mc farland and he also correponded with betty ellenburg whose james harlow/ mary harris was adjacent his john harris,wife, frances in 1850 in dekalb co, al. this is also the harris family who bill harris says that he is interested in and see the info that james just posted on harris hunters re bill's ancestry. however, there are discrepancies. whereas, again, bill harris says that this was his james harris/ sarah malinda turner's son, his robert harris, who married narcissus mc clain, both peggy mc farland and this wayne harris say that robert harris, who married narcissus mc clain was the son of this john harris, wife, frances. then, as shown, betty ellenburg, who corresponded with wayne harris also about her harris family there in dekalb co al and who is also indicated to be related to his john harris, wife, frances, also corresponded with others re the hopkins family there in benton/ cleburne co, al. a follow-up post by bonnie toole indicates that this was the same solomon hopkins/ margaret harrison also involved with our harris family and the turner family also there in laurens co, sc and on into dekalb/ gwinnett cos, ga and, then, to paulding co, ga and benton/ cleburne co, al. this was solomon hopkins, sr/ margaret harrison's son, solomon hopkins, jr's daughter, margaret hopkins, who married greenberry turner, sr. the turner cemetary there near dallas in paulding co, ga where both my james harris/ anne cooper, and his double aunt and uncle, james carter/ lucinda harris, etc, were buried was named for and the land given by greenberry turner, sr/ margaret hopkins. also, our charles harris/ jane cannon's youngest son, greenberry harris, who married permelia ann elizabeth adair, is indicated to have been named for greenberry turner, sr. our james carter/ lucinda harris' family also married into this same adair family there in paulding co, ga. if you type in harris dekalb co, al on another harris forum, you will come up with all, if not most of these posts, i am referring to and/ or you can find a lot about other of this info on other of these rootsweb sites. obviously, again, it would be important to know whether this robert harris/ emeline williams also there in benton/ cleburne co, al was bill harris' ancestor or if robert harris/ emeline williams, as the info indicates to me, may still have been part of our charles harris/ jane cannon's harris family. belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8----------26910 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. 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Sandi Gorin, some years ago, contributed this biography of a Harris male, and it is available on this URL _http://files.usgwarchives.org/ky/madison/bios/harris293gbs.txt_ (http://files.usgwarchives.org/ky/madison/bios/harris293gbs.txt) I suggest when you read it, that you try to make a time line--or family group sheets--or whatever so you can determine who is who. There are several generations of Harrises here. Christopher Harris, mentioned in the last paragraph, was originally of Louisa Co., VA; Albemarle Co., VA and sometime about 1787 of Madison Co., KY. Christopher's first wife was Mary Dabney, as indicated in the will of Cornelius Dabney, mentioned a few weeks ago on Harris-Hunters. His second wife was Agnes McCord, whose family had formerly lived in Pennsylvania. Since Christopher's will lists about 19 children, he is the father-in-law of a good many folks. Christopher was one of the sons of Major Robert Harris, surveyor of Louisa Co., vestryman at times, and sometime member of the House of Burgesses. E.W.Wallace **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)

Belva, Thank you very much for the information. I really appreciate it. It seems as though our Harris lines are intertwined in Alabama much like they seem to be in Virginia, and very difficult to untangle them. Oh well, just a part of the genealogical research. It seems like our ancestors must have known each other, though not closely related. Maybe the Harris name just naturally brought them together. It is all very puzzling indeed. I don't think Bill Harris and Robert Harris are closely related and the Most Recent Common Ancestor may actually be in early Virginia. As you know, Bill Harris lines are traced so far from Alabama back to Georgia. On the other hand, the Robert Harris line traces from Tennessee back to Patrick and Halifax Counties in Virginia, which is what Pat Seaver and Sandy Hart are working on at the present time. The Bill Harris line may be closer to the Pat Seaver (Harris) line than my own Harris line, although we both seem to have branches of our lines in Georgia. I am sure we will work it out eventually. Sincerely, James E. Hargraves In a message dated 10/3/2008 1:27:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: james thanks also for your email. first of all, like paulding co, ga, i have not really focused on cleburne co, al for quite a long time now . again, per our jane cannon harris' war of 1812 pension papers re our charles harris, which she obtained in 1872 in paulding co, ga, an emeline harris and hannah jane wright gave affadavits in 1872 in cleburne co, al, stating that our charles harris died in 1865 in greene co, arkansas. for a long time, i had thought that it was this robert harris' wife, emeline williams harris and a hannah jane wright related somehow to them, who had given these affadavits re our charles harris there in 1872 in cleburne co, al. again, about 3 years ago, or longer, i learned, instead, that it was our charles harris/ jane cannon's son richard harris, who married 1st sarah; 2nd emeline, widow of jasper wright, who were the emeline wright harris and her daughter, hannah jane wright, who actually gave these affadavits there in 1872 in cleburne co, al, again, stating that our charles harris died in 1865 in greene co, arkanansas. however, since robert harris/ emeline williams were living in 1860 in cleburne co, al in this caneland district in some proximity to my arch harris/ elizabeth carter' son, our abraham harris, and our arch harris' brother, daniel harris, i continued to believe that this robert harris/ emeline williams may have been related to my charles harris/ arch harris, etc, and possibly still also a son of our charles harris/ jane cannon. robert harris/ emeline williams, who is listed as being age 38, per the 1860 census for cleburne co, al, and who is shown to have been born, then, in 1822 was definitely not the son of either my archibald harris/ elizabeth carter, and certainly not of their son, abraham harris. besides the fact that my arch harris/ elizabeth carter was born ca 1808 and married our elizabeth carter ca 1827, i have our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's cleburne co, al estate papers, naming all of their children and grandchildren, if their son or daughter were deceased. our arch harris/ elizabeth carter harris' son, abraham harris was born ca 1828, and obviously could not have been the father of robert harris/ emeline williams. our abraham harris, who was actually named william abraham harris, but called abraham harris married in 1848 in paulding co, ga mary cohron, daughter of john cohron, sr also of paulding co, ga. our abraham harris/ mary cohron actually died there in 1860 in cleburne co, al, leaving his wife, mary, and several minor children, who, again, are named as grandchildren in our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's cleburne co, al estate papers. i have noted i do still have more to say about robert harris/ emeline williams and these connections. in going back and looking at my correspondences with bill, i noted that we both, and also a robert harris, corresponded with martha g. thrasher re the thrasher family there also in cleburne co, al. for example, see harris forum # 21422. our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son jabez harris married there in 1860 calhoun, now cleburne co, al, mahale elizabeth williamson, who was the granddaughter of jesse thrasher/ delilah mc farlin, who was the brother of george washington thrasher, the ancestor of martha g. thrasher's husband. so, i am still very puzzled about all of this given these connections. is this robert harris, who also corresponded, like bill harris, with martha g. thrasher a brother of bill harris? belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910 --- On Fri, 10/3/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] reply to james hargraves To: [email protected], [email protected] Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 11:40 AM Belva, Thanks for your message. I wanted to ask you about your research with Bill Harris, concerning his ancestry in Georgia and Alabama. Did you ever form any opinion as to the identity of the father of Robert B. Harris? Is it possible or likely that the father of Robert B. Harris was Archibald or Abraham? Did you ever form an opinion as to where the Robert B. Harris family originated in Georgia? I did find Robert's marriage record in Benton County, Alabama; Robt. Harris...Emaline Williams, married September 25, 1839. Best wishes, James E. Hargraves In a message dated 10/2/2008 9:00:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: james thanks for your reply but i must say my own recent post re bill harris being a match with your harris dna group 30 rather than our harris dna group 8 was not intended to be at all confrontational with you or any one but solely my astonishment at how this worked out. of course, my/ our harris line and family is documented. i have, of course, talked about this a lot on harris hunters and all my posts include documentation. your confrontation, however, does give me the opportunity to kind of sum all of this up. again, per a brief harris family history written in 1933 by my father's great-uncle, william abraham (abe) harris, i knew that our harris and carter families had moved into ga together and that they settled in cobb/ paulding cos, ga. he said north carolina but i learned from the 1850 census records for cobb/ paulding co, ga that they were all born in south carolina and thanks to my robert carter, jr, i now know for sure that it was laurens co, sc. uncle abe's harris and carter family history states that our robert carter, jr was the father of our elizabeth carter harris, wife of my arch harris. his version i have, and may have been others, does not say who our arch harris' father was but the records both in cobb/ paulding co, ga and laurens co, sc connect my robert carter, jr and my arch harris with our charles harris/ jane cannon and their family, including the fact that this was also our charles harris/ jane cannon's daughter lucinda harris, who married james carter, brother of my/ our elizabeth carter harris. i also know that our robert carter, jr was involved with the estate of his nephew robert carter, son of his oldest brother zimry carter, there in laurens co, sc, which shows that our arch harris married our elizabeth carter in laurens co, sc before families moved by 1830 to gwinnett co, ga. the estate papers for this nephew, robert carter, state that our robert carter, jr had " left his receipts with zimry carter which were examined there in january of 1830 in laurens co, sc." per the 1830 census gwinnett co, ga, our arch harris/ elizabeth carter already had two children under the age of five, who were their oldest daughter, rachel caroline harris, who later married zachariah austin and their oldest son, abraham harris, who later married mary cohron and who in 1860 were in cleburne co, al. their son, my james harris/ anne cooper was born in 1831 in gwinnett co, ga and died in 1872 in paulding co, ga. the laurens co, sc records show that my charles harris was one of the sons of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers, who died in 1799 in laurens co, sc. our william harris, jr's laurens co, sc estate papers show that our charles harris was his son and also a laurens co, sc deed connects our charles harris with his mother, our frances rodgers harris, per a deposition she gave re our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers purchasing land for his brother-in-law, patrick cunningham. early on in my research in laurens co, sc, i corresponded with mary mc laughlin aikman and learned from her that her sarah "goode" harris, sister of my charles harris, had married her john mc laughlin before 1800 there in laurens co, sc. her john mc laughlin served as the administrator of the estate of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers. actually, both my/ our charles harris and john mc laughlin had applied for letters of administration, although john mc laughlin is shown to have served primarily as the administrator. the fact that her sarah was named sarah "goode" harris mc laughlin is on her tombstone in perry co, al. a long process has shown me that it was not our william harris, jr's wife who was named frances goode but his father, our william harris, sr's wife, frances. a laurens co, sc deed, cited in the past, states that my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers was the son of our william harris, sr/ frances goode and these early laurens co, sc grants also show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode; his son, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers; our mackerness goode, sr; and his son, our mackerness goode, jr, as well as the cargills, etc, all obtained these ca 1770 grants in this same little river area of laurens co, sc and that they, and my rodgers family, had moved there from this south-side va lunenburg co, va, etc, area. again, the records of lunenburg co, va, show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode was the overseer in 1746 for william marable there in lunenburg co, va for his plantation, finneywood. again, a suit ensued re my william harris, sr/ frances goode with william marable and my goode family, including my mackerness goode, sr, gave depositions re this suit. both these lunenburg co, va and laurens co, sc records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode with edward harris, sr and his sons, stephen harris and edward harris, jr, who also moved to laurens co, sc, but, again, it was not until both our harris descendants participated in the harris dna project that i knew that we were definitely related to edward harris, sr and his sons. again, i have also told you before, i have not focused on edward harris, sr and someone who has and who descends from him will have to answer you in regard to your confrontations about him and his sons, etc. again, whereas as shown, my william harris, sr/ frances goode obtained this ca 1770, 300-acre grant in laurens co, sc, which became the property of my william harrris, jr/ frances rodgers, there is no evidence that my william harris, sr/ frances goode ever moved to laurens co, sc. also, whereas these lunenburg co, va deeds/ records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode indirectly with edward harris, sr, they directly connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode and my goode family with william harris,/ judith hudson, including the fact that all were in cornelius cargill' s district in 1749/ 1750 per these early lunenburg co, va tithe lists. again, both my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were involved with the will and estate of john wilborn from 1757-1762 there in lunenburg co, va, etc, and there are other involved connections i have talked about as well both in regard to my willliam harris, sr/ frances goode being involved there with my mackerness goode, sr and william harris/ judith hudson. finally, there is now this 1750 dodson survey showing that william harris, sr and william harris, jr had this survey for this land on wynn creek in halifax co, va, which bordered on the sizemores and anthony griffin, and which became a patent to my william harris, sr/ frances goode in 1758, which he sold, per several halifax co, va deeds and in several tracts to john camp. this wynn creek area of halifax co, va would have been in cornelius cargill's district and my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were the only william harrises who were in cornelius cargill's district in 1750. speaking also of the cargills, it was this cornelius cargill's grandson, cornelius cargill, son of john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, who paid the tax/ memorial for my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers' 150-acre grant there in 1772 in laurens co, sc and our mackerness goode, jr, who paid the tax/ memorial for cornelius cargill's 1767, 400-acre grant also there in laurens co, sc. then, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers and his uncle samuel goode, along with cornelius cargill's widow, sarah, paid the security re the estate of cornelius cargill in 1780 in this 96th dist/ laurens co, sc area. again, my/ our harris line and family is documented and, again, i have talked a lot about and posted this info on harris hunters. finally, of course, our harris line and family is also definitely documented per our harris dna and i hope that these links i have talked about and shown re these documented connections will continue to be totally confirmed in time per our harris dna as well. again, i am very astonished that bill harris tested into your harris dna group 30 instead of our harris dna group 8, given that his ancestor robert harris was living there in 1860 in cleburne co, al in proximity to my arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son, abraham harris, etc. of course, i definitely hope bill will learn how he fits into your harris dna group 30 just as i hope we all learn who our harris families and our harris ancestors were as, again, this has been and continues to be a long, hard, and involved process for many of us. sincere regards, belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. 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Dear Wanda Flesher On 21 Aug 2008, you wrote the following [selected paragraph]. The subject was [MADKY] Several Robert Harrises of Madison Co., KY. To give some information regarding the Robert Harris's of Madison Co. KY: The Robert Harris who married Jael Jane Ellison was born 27 Oct. 1786, Albemarle Co, VA.is a different Robert Harris than the son of Christopher Harris. Robert Harris, husband of Jael Ellison Harris is the son of John Franklin and Margaret Peggy Maupin Harris. This Robert Harris died in 1863, Madison Co KY, buried in the Richmond Cemetery. [other paragraphs of your e-mail omitted] Question: Will you help me get the facts straight about the father of this Robert Harris [wife Jael Jane Ellison]? I seem to have *acquired* a different wife for John Franklin Harris. The John Franklin Harris of whom I write was the son of Overton Harris (d. testate 1827, Madison Co. KY). Overton was the son of the elder Christopher Harris (d. testate 1794, Madison Co.). See below for a brief bio of John Franklin Harris. Thus, John Franklin Harris is probably NOT the one about whom you have written. "My" John Franklin Harris would have been the older brother of my ancestress, Carlisle Harris (d. 1859 TX), one of the younger daughters of Overton Harris, who is mentioned above. JOHN FRANKLIN HARRIS. (b. ca 1811-death date prior to May 1842) Son of Overton Harris and Nancy Oldham of Madison Co., KY. (Nancy Harris, the widow, later married Anderson Chenault, a widower ca 1837.) Grantor deed indexes of Madison Co. (DB X-205 dated Oct 16, 1837) indicate John Franklin later may have been called Franklin and he may have had a wife Katherine. He probably died intestate, as there was an administration as indicated by these probate and administration records of Madison Co., KY (FHL film 183269) pp. 82-83 J. F. Harris admr Settlement [in margin] 2nd day of May 1842 Being called upon by Christopher Harris and Napoleon G. Tevis administrators of John F. Harris decd to state & settle their accounts as such we have appointed this day at the office of R. Runyon in Richmond to perform that duty. By 1839, there is a notation in the grantor deeds that the heirs of John F. have joined other heirs of Overton Harris (their father) in selling property, a lot in Richmond to Thomas G. Little. It appears that John F. was now deceased. More research is needed. Bill and Kathy Vockery in CEMETERY RECORDS OF MADISON COUNTY [KENTUCKY], Vol. 1, Northern Section, p. 52, show John F. Harris is buried in the Overton Harris Cemetery and that he was born 1811, but his death date is not given. The Vockerys indicate (as may the gravestone) that he was the eldest son of Overton & Nancy Harris. However, there is also a gravesite for a Harris daughter born 1811. Does this signify that John Franklin was a twin? Or was he born later in the year than the unnamed daughter? John Franklin seems to have reached adulthood as indicated by a couple of marriage bonds in Madison Co. John Franklin seemed to be bondsman for one or two marriages in Madison Co. KY: for his sister Elizabeth and for his brother Solon M. Jul 1837. He himself seemed to be married, as indicated by the deed naming a Katherine. Tevis, Joseph H. & Elizabeth Harris; 17 Aug 1829; John Franklin Harris, bondsman; Nancy Harris, mother of bride [consent]. (Vockery & Vockery, Madison County Kentucky Marriages, 1823-1851, Vol. 2 [Richmond, KY,: published by authors, 1993], p. 73) Harris, Solon M. & Sally Ann Miller 25 July 1837. Robert Miller gave consent, but his relationship to the bride is unknown. Solon Harris was John Franklin's brother. (Ibid, p. 34) (Was he an underage bondsman, or was he born before his parents were married in 1810? If born in 1811, the year after the parents' marriage, he would have been age 21 in 1832 and not in 1829. His father had recently died, however, and he may have been acting as an older man in he family. Nancy (Oldham1 Harris was the widow of Overton Harris and mother of both Elizabeth and of John Franklin Harris.) Comment: Carlisle Harris married in Madison Co., KY Michael Lowery Stoner, and they spent a several years of their early marriage in Tennessee. After the death of Carlisle's mother, Nancy (Oldham) (Harris) Chenault in September 1858, the Stoner family moved to Texas. Thus, I am not acquainted as I might be about the Madison Co. Kentucky branch of this particular Harris family. Thanks for helping me sort out John Franklin Harris -- or several of them!!! I have just now checked my notes for Margaret *Peggy* Maupin, and I see that I have info her marriage to John Harris [seemingly no middle name] took place in Albemarle Co., VA--prior to their move to Madison Co. The date was 1785, and the source is William L. Norford., Marriages of Albemarle and Charlottesville, Virginia 1781-1929 (Charlottesville, VA: Privately published, 1956)]. Did this John Harris [probable son of the elder Christopher Harris but this needs to be confirmed] die in Madison Co., KY? Do you have any confirmation that his middle name was Franklin? Just curious. The same given names are given to generations of Harrises, unfortunately!!! If this John Harris is indeed the son of Christopher the elder, then I think he is the person to whom his mother or stepmother, Agnes Harris, gave a power of attorney to take care of the probate of the deceased Chrsitopher in Albemarle Co., VA. (An attorney-genealogist told me that if a person had property, particularly real property in two jurisdictions, then the probate would take place in both places.) E.W.Wallace **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! 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james   thanks again for your reply.   given as we are learning that our harris families can live in the same areas and be involved with the same families and not be related, we still use and it is important to use these related and associated families to determine who are harris families and their ancestors were.   so, what i am primarily interested in is whether this robert harris/ emeline williams, who bill harris believes was his ancestor, was actually bill's ancestor of if this robert harris/ emeline williams was still part of the harris family of my charles harris/ jane cannon.   both wayne harris, who seems to be the same as this r.w.harris, and peggy mc farland indicate that the robert harris who married narcissus mc clain was the son of this john harris, wife, frances, and not the son of james harris/ sarah malinda turner.   again, this wayne harris also indicates his interest in this same john harris, wife, frances  as peggy mc farland and he also correponded with betty ellenburg whose james harlow/ mary harris was adjacent his john harris,wife, frances in 1850 in dekalb co, al.   this is also the harris family who bill harris says that he is interested in and see the info that james  just posted on harris hunters re bill's ancestry.   however, there are discrepancies.  whereas, again, bill harris says that this was his james harris/ sarah malinda turner's son, his robert harris, who married narcissus mc clain, both peggy mc farland and this wayne harris say that robert harris, who married narcissus mc clain was the son of this john harris, wife, frances.   then, as shown, betty ellenburg, who corresponded with wayne harris also about her harris family there in dekalb co al and who is also indicated to be related to his john harris, wife, frances, also corresponded with others re the hopkins family there in benton/ cleburne co, al.   a follow-up post by bonnie toole indicates that this was the same solomon hopkins/ margaret harrison also involved with our harris family and the turner family also there in laurens co, sc and on into dekalb/ gwinnett cos, ga and, then, to paulding co, ga and benton/ cleburne co, al.   this was solomon hopkins, sr/ margaret harrison's son, solomon hopkins, jr's daughter, margaret hopkins, who married greenberry turner, sr.   the turner cemetary there near dallas in paulding co, ga where both my james harris/ anne cooper, and his double aunt and uncle, james carter/ lucinda harris, etc, were buried was named for and the land given by greenberry turner, sr/ margaret hopkins.   also, our charles harris/ jane cannon's youngest son, greenberry harris, who married permelia ann elizabeth adair, is indicated to have been named for greenberry turner, sr.   our james carter/ lucinda harris' family also married into this same adair family there in paulding co, ga.   if you type in harris dekalb co, al on another harris forum, you will come up with all, if not most of these posts, i am referring to and/ or you can find a lot about other of this info on other of these rootsweb sites.   obviously, again, it would be important to know whether this robert harris/ emeline williams  also there in benton/ cleburne co, al was bill harris' ancestor or if robert harris/ emeline williams, as the info indicates to me, may still have been part of our charles harris/ jane cannon's harris family.       belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8----------26910  

Belva, Thanks for your message. I wanted to ask you about your research with Bill Harris, concerning his ancestry in Georgia and Alabama. Did you ever form any opinion as to the identity of the father of Robert B. Harris? Is it possible or likely that the father of Robert B. Harris was Archibald or Abraham? Did you ever form an opinion as to where the Robert B. Harris family originated in Georgia? I did find Robert's marriage record in Benton County, Alabama; Robt. Harris...Emaline Williams, married September 25, 1839. Best wishes, James E. Hargraves In a message dated 10/2/2008 9:00:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: james thanks for your reply but i must say my own recent post re bill harris being a match with your harris dna group 30 rather than our harris dna group 8 was not intended to be at all confrontational with you or any one but solely my astonishment at how this worked out. of course, my/ our harris line and family is documented. i have, of course, talked about this a lot on harris hunters and all my posts include documentation. your confrontation, however, does give me the opportunity to kind of sum all of this up. again, per a brief harris family history written in 1933 by my father's great-uncle, william abraham (abe) harris, i knew that our harris and carter families had moved into ga together and that they settled in cobb/ paulding cos, ga. he said north carolina but i learned from the 1850 census records for cobb/ paulding co, ga that they were all born in south carolina and thanks to my robert carter, jr, i now know for sure that it was laurens co, sc. uncle abe's harris and carter family history states that our robert carter, jr was the father of our elizabeth carter harris, wife of my arch harris. his version i have, and may have been others, does not say who our arch harris' father was but the records both in cobb/ paulding co, ga and laurens co, sc connect my robert carter, jr and my arch harris with our charles harris/ jane cannon and their family, including the fact that this was also our charles harris/ jane cannon's daughter lucinda harris, who married james carter, brother of my/ our elizabeth carter harris. i also know that our robert carter, jr was involved with the estate of his nephew robert carter, son of his oldest brother zimry carter, there in laurens co, sc, which shows that our arch harris married our elizabeth carter in laurens co, sc before families moved by 1830 to gwinnett co, ga. the estate papers for this nephew, robert carter, state that our robert carter, jr had " left his receipts with zimry carter which were examined there in january of 1830 in laurens co, sc." per the 1830 census gwinnett co, ga, our arch harris/ elizabeth carter already had two children under the age of five, who were their oldest daughter, rachel caroline harris, who later married zachariah austin and their oldest son, abraham harris, who later married mary cohron and who in 1860 were in cleburne co, al. their son, my james harris/ anne cooper was born in 1831 in gwinnett co, ga and died in 1872 in paulding co, ga. the laurens co, sc records show that my charles harris was one of the sons of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers, who died in 1799 in laurens co, sc. our william harris, jr's laurens co, sc estate papers show that our charles harris was his son and also a laurens co, sc deed connects our charles harris with his mother, our frances rodgers harris, per a deposition she gave re our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers purchasing land for his brother-in-law, patrick cunningham. early on in my research in laurens co, sc, i corresponded with mary mc laughlin aikman and learned from her that her sarah "goode" harris, sister of my charles harris, had married her john mc laughlin before 1800 there in laurens co, sc. her john mc laughlin served as the administrator of the estate of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers. actually, both my/ our charles harris and john mc laughlin had applied for letters of administration, although john mc laughlin is shown to have served primarily as the administrator. the fact that her sarah was named sarah "goode" harris mc laughlin is on her tombstone in perry co, al. a long process has shown me that it was not our william harris, jr's wife who was named frances goode but his father, our william harris, sr's wife, frances. a laurens co, sc deed, cited in the past, states that my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers was the son of our william harris, sr/ frances goode and these early laurens co, sc grants also show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode; his son, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers; our mackerness goode, sr; and his son, our mackerness goode, jr, as well as the cargills, etc, all obtained these ca 1770 grants in this same little river area of laurens co, sc and that they, and my rodgers family, had moved there from this south-side va lunenburg co, va, etc, area. again, the records of lunenburg co, va, show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode was the overseer in 1746 for william marable there in lunenburg co, va for his plantation, finneywood. again, a suit ensued re my william harris, sr/ frances goode with william marable and my goode family, including my mackerness goode, sr, gave depositions re this suit. both these lunenburg co, va and laurens co, sc records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode with edward harris, sr and his sons, stephen harris and edward harris, jr, who also moved to laurens co, sc, but, again, it was not until both our harris descendants participated in the harris dna project that i knew that we were definitely related to edward harris, sr and his sons. again, i have also told you before, i have not focused on edward harris, sr and someone who has and who descends from him will have to answer you in regard to your confrontations about him and his sons, etc. again, whereas as shown, my william harris, sr/ frances goode obtained this ca 1770, 300-acre grant in laurens co, sc, which became the property of my william harrris, jr/ frances rodgers, there is no evidence that my william harris, sr/ frances goode ever moved to laurens co, sc. also, whereas these lunenburg co, va deeds/ records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode indirectly with edward harris, sr, they directly connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode and my goode family with william harris,/ judith hudson, including the fact that all were in cornelius cargill' s district in 1749/ 1750 per these early lunenburg co, va tithe lists. again, both my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were involved with the will and estate of john wilborn from 1757-1762 there in lunenburg co, va, etc, and there are other involved connections i have talked about as well both in regard to my willliam harris, sr/ frances goode being involved there with my mackerness goode, sr and william harris/ judith hudson. finally, there is now this 1750 dodson survey showing that william harris, sr and william harris, jr had this survey for this land on wynn creek in halifax co, va, which bordered on the sizemores and anthony griffin, and which became a patent to my william harris, sr/ frances goode in 1758, which he sold, per several halifax co, va deeds and in several tracts to john camp. this wynn creek area of halifax co, va would have been in cornelius cargill's district and my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were the only william harrises who were in cornelius cargill's district in 1750. speaking also of the cargills, it was this cornelius cargill's grandson, cornelius cargill, son of john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, who paid the tax/ memorial for my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers' 150-acre grant there in 1772 in laurens co, sc and our mackerness goode, jr, who paid the tax/ memorial for cornelius cargill's 1767, 400-acre grant also there in laurens co, sc. then, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers and his uncle samuel goode, along with cornelius cargill's widow, sarah, paid the security re the estate of cornelius cargill in 1780 in this 96th dist/ laurens co, sc area. again, my/ our harris line and family is documented and, again, i have talked a lot about and posted this info on harris hunters. finally, of course, our harris line and family is also definitely documented per our harris dna and i hope that these links i have talked about and shown re these documented connections will continue to be totally confirmed in time per our harris dna as well. again, i am very astonished that bill harris tested into your harris dna group 30 instead of our harris dna group 8, given that his ancestor robert harris was living there in 1860 in cleburne co, al in proximity to my arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son, abraham harris, etc. of course, i definitely hope bill will learn how he fits into your harris dna group 30 just as i hope we all learn who our harris families and our harris ancestors were as, again, this has been and continues to be a long, hard, and involved process for many of us. sincere regards, belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. 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james   thanks also for your email.   first of all, like paulding co, ga, i have not really focused on cleburne co, al for quite a long time now .   again, per our jane cannon harris' war of 1812 pension papers re our charles harris, which she obtained in 1872 in paulding co, ga, an emeline harris and hannah jane wright gave affadavits in 1872 in cleburne co, al, stating that our charles harris died in 1865 in greene co, arkansas.   for a long time, i had thought that it was this robert harris' wife, emeline williams harris and a hannah jane wright related somehow to them, who had given these affadavits re our charles harris there in 1872 in cleburne co, al.   again, about 3 years ago, or longer, i learned, instead, that it was our charles harris/ jane cannon's son richard harris, who married 1st sarah; 2nd emeline, widow of jasper wright, who were the emeline wright harris and her daughter, hannah jane wright, who actually gave these affadavits there in 1872 in cleburne co, al, again, stating that our charles harris died in 1865 in greene co, arkanansas.   however, since robert harris/ emeline williams were living in 1860 in cleburne co, al in this caneland district in some proximity to my arch harris/ elizabeth carter' son, our abraham harris, and our arch harris' brother, daniel harris, i continued to believe that this robert harris/ emeline williams may have been related to my charles harris/ arch harris, etc, and possibly still also a son of our charles harris/ jane cannon.    robert harris/ emeline williams, who is listed as being age 38, per the 1860 census for cleburne co, al, and who is shown to have been born, then, in 1822 was definitely not the son of either my archibald harris/ elizabeth carter, and certainly not of their son, abraham harris.   besides the fact that my arch harris/ elizabeth carter was born ca 1808 and married our elizabeth carter ca 1827, i have our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's cleburne co, al estate papers, naming all of their children and grandchildren, if their son or daughter were deceased.   our arch harris/ elizabeth carter harris' son, abraham harris was born ca 1828, and obviously could not have been the father of robert harris/ emeline williams.     our abraham harris, who was actually named william abraham harris, but called abraham harris married in 1848 in paulding co, ga mary cohron, daughter of john cohron, sr also of paulding co, ga.   our abraham harris/ mary cohron actually died there in 1860 in cleburne co, al, leaving his wife, mary, and several minor children, who, again, are named as grandchildren in our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's cleburne co, al estate papers.   i have noted i do still have more to say about robert harris/ emeline williams and these connections.     in going back and looking at my correspondences with bill, i noted that we both, and also a robert harris, corresponded with martha g. thrasher re the thrasher family there also in cleburne co, al.   for example, see harris forum # 21422.  our arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son jabez harris married there in 1860 calhoun, now cleburne co, al, mahale elizabeth williamson, who was the granddaughter of jesse thrasher/ delilah mc farlin, who was the brother of george washington thrasher, the ancestor of martha g. thrasher's husband.   so, i am still very puzzled about all of this given these connections.    is this robert harris, who also corresponded, like bill harris, with martha g. thrasher a brother of bill harris?     belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910   --- On Fri, 10/3/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] reply to james hargraves To: [email protected], [email protected] Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 11:40 AM Belva,   Thanks for your message. I wanted to ask you about your research with Bill Harris, concerning his ancestry in Georgia and Alabama.   Did you ever form any opinion as to the identity of the father of Robert B. Harris?   Is it possible or likely that the father of Robert B. Harris was Archibald or Abraham?   Did you ever form an opinion as to where the Robert B. Harris family originated in Georgia?   I did find Robert's marriage record in Benton County, Alabama;   Robt. Harris...Emaline Williams, married September 25, 1839.   Best wishes, James E. Hargraves   In a message dated 10/2/2008 9:00:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: james   thanks for your reply but i must say my own recent post re bill harris being a match with your harris dna group 30 rather than our harris dna group 8 was not intended to be at all confrontational with you or any one but solely my astonishment at how this worked out.   of course, my/ our harris line and family is documented.  i have, of course, talked about this a lot on harris hunters and all my posts include documentation.   your confrontation, however, does give me the opportunity to kind of sum all of this up.   again, per a brief harris family history written in 1933 by my father's great-uncle, william abraham (abe) harris, i knew that our harris and carter families had moved into ga together and that they settled in cobb/ paulding cos, ga.   he said north carolina but i learned from the 1850 census records for cobb/ paulding co, ga that they were all born in south carolina and thanks to my robert carter, jr, i now know for sure that it was laurens co, sc.   uncle abe's harris and carter family history states that our robert carter, jr was the father of our elizabeth carter harris, wife of my arch harris.     his version i have, and may have been others, does not say who our arch harris' father was but the records both in cobb/ paulding co, ga and laurens co, sc connect my robert carter, jr and my arch harris with our charles harris/ jane cannon and their family, including the fact that this was also our charles harris/ jane cannon's daughter lucinda harris, who married james carter, brother of my/ our elizabeth carter harris.   i also know that our robert carter, jr was involved with the estate of his nephew robert carter, son of his oldest brother zimry carter, there in laurens co, sc, which shows that our arch harris married our elizabeth carter in laurens co, sc before families moved by 1830 to gwinnett co, ga.   the estate papers for this nephew, robert carter, state that our robert carter, jr had " left his receipts with zimry carter which were examined there in  january of 1830 in laurens co, sc."    per the 1830 census gwinnett co, ga, our arch harris/ elizabeth carter already had two children under the age of five, who were their oldest daughter, rachel caroline harris, who later married zachariah austin and their oldest son, abraham harris, who later married mary cohron and who in 1860 were in cleburne co, al.   their son, my james harris/ anne cooper was born in 1831 in gwinnett co, ga and died in 1872 in paulding co, ga.   the laurens co, sc records show that my charles harris was one of the sons of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers, who died in 1799 in laurens co, sc.    our william harris, jr's laurens co, sc estate papers show that  our charles harris was his son and also a laurens co, sc deed connects our charles harris with his mother, our frances rodgers harris, per  a deposition she gave re our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers purchasing land for his brother-in-law, patrick cunningham.   early on in my research in laurens co, sc, i corresponded with mary mc laughlin aikman and learned from her that her sarah "goode" harris, sister of my charles harris, had married her john mc laughlin before 1800 there in laurens co, sc.   her john mc laughlin served as the administrator of the estate of our william harris, jr/ frances rodgers.   actually,  both my/ our charles harris and john mc laughlin had applied for letters of administration, although john mc laughlin is shown to have served primarily as the administrator.   the fact that her sarah was named sarah "goode" harris mc laughlin is on her tombstone in perry co, al.  a long process has shown me that it was not our william harris, jr's wife who was named frances goode but his father, our william harris, sr's wife, frances.   a laurens co, sc deed, cited in the past, states that my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers was the son of our william harris, sr/ frances goode and these early laurens co, sc grants  also show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode; his son, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers; our mackerness goode, sr; and his son, our mackerness goode, jr, as well as the cargills, etc, all obtained these ca 1770 grants in this same little river area of laurens co, sc and that they, and my rodgers family, had moved there from this south-side va  lunenburg co, va, etc, area.   again, the records of lunenburg co, va, show that my william harris, sr/ frances goode was the overseer in 1746 for william marable there in lunenburg co, va for his plantation, finneywood.     again, a suit ensued re my william harris, sr/ frances goode with william marable and my goode family, including my mackerness goode, sr, gave depositions re this suit.   both these  lunenburg co, va  and laurens co, sc records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode with edward harris, sr and his sons, stephen harris and edward harris, jr, who also moved to laurens co, sc, but, again, it was not until both our harris descendants participated in the harris dna project that i knew that we were definitely related to edward harris, sr and his sons.   again, i have also told you before, i have not focused on edward harris, sr and someone who has and who descends from him will have to answer you in regard to your confrontations about him and his sons, etc.   again, whereas as shown, my william harris, sr/ frances goode obtained this ca 1770,  300-acre grant in laurens co, sc, which became the property of my william harrris, jr/ frances rodgers, there is no evidence that my william harris, sr/ frances goode ever moved to laurens co, sc.   also, whereas these lunenburg co, va deeds/ records connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode indirectly with edward harris, sr, they directly connect my william harris, sr/ frances goode and my goode family with william harris,/ judith hudson, including the fact that all were in cornelius cargill' s district in 1749/ 1750 per these early lunenburg co, va tithe lists.   again, both my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were involved with the will and estate of john wilborn from 1757-1762 there in lunenburg co, va, etc, and there are other involved connections i have talked about as well both in regard to my willliam harris, sr/ frances goode being involved there with my mackerness goode, sr and william harris/ judith hudson.   finally, there is now this 1750 dodson survey showing that william harris, sr and william harris, jr had this survey for this land on wynn creek in halifax co, va, which bordered on the sizemores and anthony griffin, and which became a patent to my william harris, sr/ frances goode in 1758, which he sold, per several halifax co, va deeds and in several tracts to john camp.   this wynn creek area of halifax co, va would have been in cornelius cargill's district and my william harris, sr/ frances goode and william harris/ judith hudson were the only william harrises who were in cornelius cargill's district in 1750.    speaking also of the cargills, it was this cornelius cargill's grandson, cornelius cargill, son of john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, who paid the tax/ memorial for my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers' 150-acre grant there in 1772 in laurens co, sc and our mackerness goode, jr, who paid the tax/ memorial for cornelius cargill's 1767, 400-acre grant also there in laurens co, sc.   then, my william harris, jr/ frances rodgers and his uncle samuel goode, along with cornelius cargill's widow, sarah, paid the security re the estate of cornelius cargill in 1780 in this 96th dist/ laurens co, sc area.   again, my/ our harris line and family is documented and, again, i have talked a lot about and posted this info on harris hunters.   finally, of course, our harris line and family is also definitely documented per our harris dna and i hope that these links i have talked about and shown re these documented connections will continue to be totally confirmed in time per our harris dna as well.   again, i am very astonished that bill harris tested into your harris dna group 30 instead of our harris dna group 8, given that his ancestor robert harris was living there in 1860 in cleburne co, al in proximity to my arch harris/ elizabeth carter's son, abraham harris, etc.   of course, i definitely hope bill will learn how he fits into your harris dna group 30 just as i hope we all learn who our harris families and our harris ancestors were as, again, this has been and continues to be a long, hard, and involved process for many of us.     sincere regards,     belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910                 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. 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Ruby sent an e-mail on 8/26, which I have just re-read: I feel that some researchers of Madison County's early settlers would find it rewarding to look into the counties further west. Many of our ancestors were moving west. Mine were heading to Missouri. They removed from Madison Co. in the 1830's and stayed in Christian Co. long enough to have six children before moving on to Hickman Co., KY just east of the Mississippi River and Missouri. They died and are buried in Hickman Co. but some of their children went on to Missouri and Texas. My comment: Ruby's message I have just read. Yes, she is right. Our ancestors were migratory--and their descendants, for the most part, still are!! Look west--not only in Kentucky [remember no autos at the time we are talking about] but across the rivers in adjoining States and later in Missouri. Some North Carolinians, after spending some time in Tennessee, moved on to *Jackson Purchase* Kentucky. I might add - keep an eye on migrations to Texas. Texas, in its early days, was filled with Southern born residents, many of whom had financial troubles in adjoining states in a financial panic ca 1840s. Also, some of them had other troubles with not only the civil courts, but some of the criminal courts. It pays to read old court records!!! And, if you can get to a courthouse, poke around some of the dusty books [thin, insignificant ones, especially if they are dusty]. A distant cousin found in Henderson Co., KY a bail bond in such a book [which was just lying around without any title on the back or front] and found a document which links two Samuel Williamses, one of whom went to Hickman Co.--and there was appointed a jailer [gaoler]!!! This is the only firm evidence that we have for believing that these two Williamses were father and son. Good luck in your future searches--and look over your old notes. You may be able to link a couple of people together now that your notes have *aged* [like wine]. E.W.Wallace **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)