carol so, are we saying here that thomas poore did have a daughter elizabeth harris, but that she was not the wife of robert harris but, instead, this was robert harris' wife, elizabeth, who was the daughter of this isaac morris? or again, we could still be talking about a robert harris, sr and a robert harris, jr and that both of their wives were named, elizabeth. robert harris, sr's could still have been the robert harris, who was involved with thomas poore re the estate of issac morris there in st martin's parish there in hanover co, va so that it was this robert harris, sr's wife, elizabeth, who was the daughter of this thomas poore. then, it could have been this robert harris, sr/ elizabeth poore's son, robert harris, jr, who actually married a daughter of this isaac morris. the main thing is that we are talking about robert harrises there in st martin's parish, hanover co, va, who are potentially part of our captain thomas harris' harris line and family and who were not the robert harris, sr, who was married to mourning glenn or his son, robert harris, jr, who married lucretia brown and who are said to have been part of the captain william harris/ temperance overton harris line and family. so, again, whether we are talking about a robert harris and/ or both a robert harris, sr and robert harris, jr, who was married to elizabeth poore or to elizabeth morris and/ or, again, that robert harris, sr was married to elizabeth poore and robert harris, jr was married to elizabeth morris, we are talking about robert harrises, who were, again, not the same as robert harris, sr/ mourning glenn or his son, robert harris, jr/ lucretia brown, and, again, this or these robert harrises involved with your thomas harris; the depriest family, etc, have to be seriously considered as being part of our captain thomas harris' harris line and family and probably related to your thomas harris. to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8--------26910 --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Carol E Barron <[email protected]> wrote: From: Carol E Barron <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] re robert harris/ thomas poore/ depriest/ crenshaw part two To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 3:44 PM Bev, below Amelia Will Book entries of Isaac Morris' 1750 estate from which he names a dau. Elizabeth Harris. Amelia Co. VA Will Bk 1 by McConnaughey p 21 (this Eliz. Harris was not in index) p 68 MORRIS, ISAAC, SR. Dec 17, 1749. pro May 18, 1750. Wit. Benjamin Hendrick, Jacob Seay, Thomas Whitworth, Sarah (X) Edwards. Ex. wife Mary Morris, son Moses Morris. Leg: dau. ELIZABETH HARRIS; son Moses Morris 300a Amelia Co. at place called Jack's Quarter after decease of my wife; dau. Leah Morris; son Silvanus Morris 300a Amelia Co. with plantation where I live; son Zachariah Morris 300a Amelia Co. adj. son Moses; son Isaac Morris 300a Amelia Co. adj. son Zacharias; Thomas Whitworth land in Amelia Co. "he bought of me, when he hath paid for it;" remainder est., except land, left under care of wife Marry Morris for life or widowhood, then to be equally div. amongst 3 of my daus., Tabitha, Rhoda and Oney Morris, and 3 of my sons, Silvanus, Zachriah, and Isaac Morris. Slaves: Negro man Budge, Negro girls Tamer and Judy. p 21 p 68 MORRIS, ISAAC, SR. Est I&A. Amelia Co. est. appr Mar(May?) 20, 1750. Appr. Benjamin Hendrick, Sr., Jacob Seay, Mary Morris, Moses Morris. Value 28/15/3. Hanover Co. est Appr: JOHN DUPRIEST, GEORGE TURNER, ROBERT HARRIS. Ex Moses Morris. Value 2/1/6. Slaves: Negro men Jack, Ben, Joe, Davey and Will; Negro women Phillis, Tamer, Dinah, Jude, Gill and Lucy. On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:11:00 -0800 (PST) [email protected] writes: > > > > here again is also the info pat posted recently, showing that this > same robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish, hanover > co, va, who, as shown, had sold land to carol's thomas harris and > this stephen davis, was the same robert harris, who was also > involved there with thomas poore and robert depriest re the > appraisal of the estate of this isaac morris also there in st > martin's parish, hanover co, va. > > so, again, the info would definitely indicate to me that this robert > harris' wife, elizabeth, was the daughter of this thomas poore and, > again, given that this is also indicated to have been the same > robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish who sold land > to carol's thomas harris and, in fact, shown to have been > significantly involved with him, then, this robert harris/ elizabeth > poore would definitely also seem to be part of our captain thomas > harris' harris line and family. > > > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] re carol's thomas harris/ depriest > family/stephen davis > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:26:27 EST > Court Held May 17, 1751 > Robert Depriest, Robert Harris,********** Thomas Pore and George > Turner, or > any three, to appraise and value estate of Isaac Morris in Hanover > Co. and > make return > _____________________________________________________________ > > > These are similar name connections to the Prince Edward deeds of > Robert > Harris with wife Elizabeth, and Robert Depriest:; > > Thomas Poor was married to Susannah Estes of Abraham, and their > daughter > Elizabeth Poor was married to a Harris. > > In 1770, Elizabeth Poore Harris deposed about something that was 49 > years > back, so 1729 at least for her as a child observing Abraham Estes' > (d ca > 1720) younger children coming to live with her father. . Her sibs > seem to be > born 1697 -1725. > > The Poor/Poore family lived in St. Martin's PH, Hanover, VA. > > That Robert Harris and Thomas Harris are signing with marks, so not > the > surveyor who moved on to Albemarle and died there 1765. > > > to be continued: > > > belva harris cauthen > harris dna group 8--------26910 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw22U6jEerq5tFmE4h0qzIq0Gzh8Yqbh1vdaB65jCjPlEthjo/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Looking for the proper Harris family for three girls in the guardianship of Lemuel Kelso, Dubois Co, IN, 1874. The girls are Margaret E. Harris, Polly Harris, and Minerva Harris. Polly Harris later marries James Payne. The father may be Isham Harris; if so, is he from VA or from NC? Thanks for your response, Nancy Cooper
Bev, below Amelia Will Book entries of Isaac Morris' 1750 estate from which he names a dau. Elizabeth Harris. Amelia Co. VA Will Bk 1 by McConnaughey p 21 (this Eliz. Harris was not in index) p 68 MORRIS, ISAAC, SR. Dec 17, 1749. pro May 18, 1750. Wit. Benjamin Hendrick, Jacob Seay, Thomas Whitworth, Sarah (X) Edwards. Ex. wife Mary Morris, son Moses Morris. Leg: dau. ELIZABETH HARRIS; son Moses Morris 300a Amelia Co. at place called Jack's Quarter after decease of my wife; dau. Leah Morris; son Silvanus Morris 300a Amelia Co. with plantation where I live; son Zachariah Morris 300a Amelia Co. adj. son Moses; son Isaac Morris 300a Amelia Co. adj. son Zacharias; Thomas Whitworth land in Amelia Co. "he bought of me, when he hath paid for it;" remainder est., except land, left under care of wife Marry Morris for life or widowhood, then to be equally div. amongst 3 of my daus., Tabitha, Rhoda and Oney Morris, and 3 of my sons, Silvanus, Zachriah, and Isaac Morris. Slaves: Negro man Budge, Negro girls Tamer and Judy. p 21 p 68 MORRIS, ISAAC, SR. Est I&A. Amelia Co. est. appr Mar(May?) 20, 1750. Appr. Benjamin Hendrick, Sr., Jacob Seay, Mary Morris, Moses Morris. Value 28/15/3. Hanover Co. est Appr: JOHN DUPRIEST, GEORGE TURNER, ROBERT HARRIS. Ex Moses Morris. Value 2/1/6. Slaves: Negro men Jack, Ben, Joe, Davey and Will; Negro women Phillis, Tamer, Dinah, Jude, Gill and Lucy. On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:11:00 -0800 (PST) [email protected] writes: > > > > here again is also the info pat posted recently, showing that this > same robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish, hanover > co, va, who, as shown, had sold land to carol's thomas harris and > this stephen davis, was the same robert harris, who was also > involved there with thomas poore and robert depriest re the > appraisal of the estate of this isaac morris also there in st > martin's parish, hanover co, va. > > so, again, the info would definitely indicate to me that this robert > harris' wife, elizabeth, was the daughter of this thomas poore and, > again, given that this is also indicated to have been the same > robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish who sold land > to carol's thomas harris and, in fact, shown to have been > significantly involved with him, then, this robert harris/ elizabeth > poore would definitely also seem to be part of our captain thomas > harris' harris line and family. > > > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] re carol's thomas harris/ depriest > family/stephen davis > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:26:27 EST > Court Held May 17, 1751 > Robert Depriest, Robert Harris,********** Thomas Pore and George > Turner, or > any three, to appraise and value estate of Isaac Morris in Hanover > Co. and > make return > _____________________________________________________________ > > > These are similar name connections to the Prince Edward deeds of > Robert > Harris with wife Elizabeth, and Robert Depriest:; > > Thomas Poor was married to Susannah Estes of Abraham, and their > daughter > Elizabeth Poor was married to a Harris. > > In 1770, Elizabeth Poore Harris deposed about something that was 49 > years > back, so 1729 at least for her as a child observing Abraham Estes' > (d ca > 1720) younger children coming to live with her father. . Her sibs > seem to be > born 1697 -1725. > > The Poor/Poore family lived in St. Martin's PH, Hanover, VA. > > That Robert Harris and Thomas Harris are signing with marks, so not > the > surveyor who moved on to Albemarle and died there 1765. > > > to be continued: > > > belva harris cauthen > harris dna group 8--------26910 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw22U6jEerq5tFmE4h0qzIq0Gzh8Yqbh1vdaB65jCjPlEthjo/
here again is also the info pat posted recently, showing that this same robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish, hanover co, va, who, as shown, had sold land to carol's thomas harris and this stephen davis, was the same robert harris, who was also involved there with thomas poore and robert depriest re the appraisal of the estate of this isaac morris also there in st martin's parish, hanover co, va. so, again, the info would definitely indicate to me that this robert harris' wife, elizabeth, was the daughter of this thomas poore and, again, given that this is also indicated to have been the same robert harris, wife, elizabeth of st martin's parish who sold land to carol's thomas harris and, in fact, shown to have been significantly involved with him, then, this robert harris/ elizabeth poore would definitely also seem to be part of our captain thomas harris' harris line and family. From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] re carol's thomas harris/ depriest family/stephen davis Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:26:27 EST Court Held May 17, 1751 Robert Depriest, Robert Harris,********** Thomas Pore and George Turner, or any three, to appraise and value estate of Isaac Morris in Hanover Co. and make return _____________________________________________________________ These are similar name connections to the Prince Edward deeds of Robert Harris with wife Elizabeth, and Robert Depriest:; Thomas Poor was married to Susannah Estes of Abraham, and their daughter Elizabeth Poor was married to a Harris. In 1770, Elizabeth Poore Harris deposed about something that was 49 years back, so 1729 at least for her as a child observing Abraham Estes' (d ca 1720) younger children coming to live with her father. . Her sibs seem to be born 1697 -1725. The Poor/Poore family lived in St. Martin's PH, Hanover, VA. That Robert Harris and Thomas Harris are signing with marks, so not the surveyor who moved on to Albemarle and died there 1765. to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8--------26910
i want to go back to this info which pat posted recently wherein robert harris; robert depriest; and thomas poore were to appraise the estate of isaac morris there in hanover co, va. the info also shows that an elizabeth harris was the daughter of this thomas poore. when i go to these rootsweb/ family tree sites, which are not always accurate, if they list a husband for elizabeth poore harris, they have him as tyre harris. this does not exactly make sense since the info itself shows that this was a robert harris involved with thomas poore. is there any info that connects a tyre harris with thomas poore ? again, this is definitely indicated/ shown to have been the same robert harris/ elizabeth of st martin's parish, hanover co, va who sold land to carol's thomas harris and this stephen davis, which was also witnessed by the depriest family, who, again, was also involved there with this thomas poore. so, the info would indicate to me that it was this robert harris' wife, elizabeth, who was the daughter of this thomas poore. is this also, pat, what you are thinking and saying and, perhaps, you did already and i missed it? one thing, for sure, if this robert harris' wife, elizabeth, was the daughter of this thomas poore, then, this robert harris was surely not the same robert harris, who was married to mourning glenn or his son, robert harris, who was married to lucretia brown and----------- given this robert harris' definite association with carol's thomas harris, the info would, again, indicate to me that this robert harris/ elizabeth poore was somehow part of our captain thomas harris' harris line and family. here, again, are also the excerpts from the deeds wherein this robert harris, elizabeth of st martin's parish, hanover co, va, sold land both to carol's thomas harris and this stephen davis, which, again, was also witnessed by the depriest family. 23 June 1748 Robert Harris of St. Martin Parish, Hanover County to Thomas Harris of same for £25, 400 acres in Amelia County on the south side of the North fork of Falling Creek. Bounded by: Randolph ’s line, Harden’s line. Robert Harris Witnesses: George Harris, Stephen Harris, Harrison Deprieart ( Depriest ) (Amelia County Deed Book 3, page 92-94) Prince Edward Co., VA, DB 4, p. 73-75, 1 July 1771 This indenture made this thirty first day of July in the year of our Lord Christ one thousand seven hundred seventy one between Robert Harris and Elizabeth his wife of St. Martins Parish in the county of Hanover of the one part and Stephen Davis of parish and county above said of the other part, witnesseth that the said Robert Harris and Elizabeth his wife for and in consideration of the sum of one hundred pounds current money of Virginia to them in hand paid by the said Stephen Davis the receipt whereof they the said Robert Harris and Elizth his wife doth hereby acknowledge that they the said Robert Harris and Elizabeth his wife have granted bargained sold aliened and confirmed and by these presents doth grant bargain sell alien and confirm unto the said Stephen Davis his heirs and assigns forever one certain tract or parcel of land lying and being in the county of Prince Edward on Lockets Creek the south side, and bounded as followeth to wit, beginning at the said Lockets Creek in Randolph’s line .......... these presents the right and title of the said land and premises above mentioned to the said Stephen Davis his heirs and assigns forever by these presents. In witness whereof the said Robert Harris and Elizabeth his wife hath set their hands and affixed their seals the day and year first above written. Robert [ R ] Harris /s/ Wit: Charles Crenshaw, Robert Depriest, Jennings Pulliam to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8---------26910
BoxerB wrote in part: As I have said before, I read a lot about persons who have gone to SC, NC and made the southern circle. My problem is that mine ancestor, George Harris who married Sarah Hudson, went to KY. Another problem is that we can't come up with a male direct from my George O Harris line. My response: A good many of us research folks in colonial/pre-Revolutionary Virginia--and North Carolina, same time--and may stumble on your folks. BUT -- your query should have some DATES!!! and maybe some counties if you know that! Kentucky was formed 1792 from Virginia. If you give a date, perhaps some of us can figure out HOW and WHEN your George O. Harris migrated. There weren't a lot of counties in Kentucky at the beginning. Some of the counties were huge, but as they got more populated, people could petition that they wanted a new county. Somewhere I was told that the custom/law was that the courthouse should NOT be more than a days' horseback ride away. (Anyone want to confirm that suggestion?) Probably at the time Kentucky was being settled by non-native folks, the population was not that great. Even if your folks were in a *burned* county, there may be a record in an adjoining county. People poured into Kentucky from everywhere, but mostly from Virginia and North Carolina. However, if you read some of the transcriptions of the Kentucky Court of Appeals books by Michael L. Cook and Bettie Cummings Cook, you will see references to people from Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc. I think the reason lots of us have trouble is that we don't realize that the counties divided all the time. Not only do we have to study the genealogy of people, we have to study the genealogy of counties. Which complicates matters, but that is part of the study of this process!!! Maybe a website like this one will help you get some bearings. _http://www.mykentuckygenealogy.com/ky_county.htm#facts_ (http://www.mykentuckygenealogy.com/ky_county.htm#facts) If you go down to the bottom of the screen, you will find a lot of facts about the history of Kentucky Also, try these websites _http://www.myvirginiagenealogy.com/va_maps/va_cf.htm_ (http://www.myvirginiagenealogy.com/va_maps/va_cf.htm) p://www.mynorthcarolinagenealogy.com/nc_maps/nc_cf.htm Does your local library -- or a nearby library-- or your State Library have a subscription to HeritageQuest?. Confer with your local librarian. Ask him/her to help you locate a library which has a subscription. Perhaps, for a *out-of-towner* fee you can get a card [the number on the card is your password] from a library in an adjoining county. All the censuses are on HQ, a lot of books, some Rev. War pension claims, etc. Maybe George will pop up. Middle names were not used for a long time in this country, unless there was a need for a middle name. So leave out the O [unless he used that O in county documents] when searching for George Harris!!! E.W.Wallace who has made lots of mistakes along the way!!! **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)
Merry Christmas to everyone on this list from the list manager. I have maintained this list for more than 10 years. Free Harris family quarterly newsletter to anyone on this list who would like one. I'll need postal address as the newsletter is mailed 1st class mail to members. Please send request to me richboyd"at"charter.net Please don't send request to this list. And have a great and prosperous New Year. Richard and Jerri Lynn Boyd 568 W. Friedrich Street Rogers City, Michigan 49779 USA
Has anyone made any connections between Dabney Harris (1820-1897 Buckingham Co., VA, m. Frances Scruggs) and the earlier Harris/Dabney connections from that area? Does anyone know who this Dabney's parents were? Dave
I have a couple of bits of Mumford /Marable information. When we lived in CT there were Mumfords, Monros and Harrises buried near each other in Ye Olde Burying Ground in New London. My Claiborne's son was Mumford Monroe Harris. These graves in CT dated into the late 1600's and early 1700's. There were other family names i.e. Samuel and Sarah (my name) on the Harris stones. This leads me to wonder if my Claiborne's ancestors came from Ct. I have not been able to find a connection since there is a lot of time between when he was born (maybe 1760-65) and those early graves. Also after my Claiborne Harris got to the Dickson/Montgomery County TN area between 1807 and the mid 1820's I believe there were Marables living in that area also. My Claiborne lived near some McFalls and I found a McFall road in the Yellow creek area of Dickson/Montgomery Co., TN I will have to look this up but I believe that Marables worked on the road with Claiborne and his sons. Hope these bits of information will fit in someone's puzzle. Sarah ____________________________________________________________ Free info on nursing jobs. Earn more money. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2bVNN5bgRLJfCHkwlvygmqBKtGMI7PRW0G9Dh4Hxt2JDbHI/
Yes, the MAUPINS are listed.. I'm working on Huguenot Membership now ... to my MAUPINS.. Ellie Swanger In a message dated 12/18/08 17:12:58 Mountain Standard Time, Hdanw writes: I wonder if the Maupins
Wholly Genes, the company which markets The Master Genealogist [TMG] also markets CDs. Although I don't use TMG [too hard to learn], I still get the newsletter. I found this paragraph of interest. I have a friend who is Registrar of the state for the Huguenot Society. I will tell her about it. Others who came to Virginia [Manakin town in Goochland Co.] may be interested also. I wonder if the Maupins and the Jouetts are mentioned. They intermarried with Harrises!!! LETTERS OF DENIZATION AND ACTS OF NATURALIZATION FOR ALIENS IN ENGLAND AND IRELAND, 1603-1700. $35.49 http://www.WhollyGenes.com/find_wg.mvc?refid=NEWS&p=IET0094 This republication of Letters of Denization & Acts of Naturalization for Aliens in England & Ireland, 1603-1700, was edited by William A. Shaw and published by the Huguenot Society of London in 1911. The first instance of legislatively making a foreigner into an English subject was recorded in 1295, when Elias Daubeny was granted by the grace of King Edward I, the right to be held as an Englishman. (more...) E.W.Wallace **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)
Mary Alice, You are absolutely correct--it is $5.50 per reel. I apologize for the error--it would still be a bargain at $7.00. Pat Seaver On Dec 16, 2008, at 1:41 PM, M. A. Farrell wrote: > Patricia... you say the cost of ordering LDS film reel is $7.00?? > I am on staff at a Family History Center and the cost is $5.50 per > reel!! Maybe they charge a "notification fee" at the Center you > use... Mary Alice
I find the discussion of the connections between the Harris and Mumford families of interest. The following deed-- Patrick Co, VA Deed from George Rogers of Tennessee to William Harris 14 Jan 1804 Bk 2/p 305 bordering Joshua Renfroe, Robert Rogers, David Davis, Daniel Askew. Wit: Rebeccah Harris Mumford --refers to William Harris who moved from Halifax Co. VA to Stokes Co, NC between 1798 and 1800 and to Patrick Co. by 1803. When this William Harris first bought land in Halifax Co. in 1778, he was "William Harris of Amelia Co. VA" on the deed. In 1779 William sold land in Halifax Co. to a John Harris "of Amelia Co.") and in 1781 to a James Harris. This land was in the vicinity of Difficult Creek. He had two known sons--Barnard b. @1768 and Elijah b. @1775; his wife was named Elizabeth, last name unknown. The 1800 Stokes Co, NC census indicates other males in his household and the households of Barnard Harris and a John Harris were listed next to him (Elijah was on the Halifax Co. VA personal property tax list through 1806, after which he moved to Patrick Co.) Amelia Co. records point to a William Harris who lived in the northwestern part of Amelia Co. in the vicinity of Sandy Creek and Stocks Creek--between Flatt Creek and the Appomattox River. William was closely associated in Halifax Co. with the Vasser family and the Pringle/Prindle family, who also came to Halifax Co. from Amelia Co. In Amelia Co. he was also associated with the Hendrick(s) family. In both Halifax Co. and Patrick Co., William, Barnard and Elijah were closely associated with the family of Peter and Martha Hudson, Sr. The Claiborne Harris who married Sally Hudson 1789 Charlotte Co, VA lived near William and his sons in Halifax Co. William's son, Elijah, married Nancy Lee, d/o William Lee, 1794 Halifax Co. They had at least two sons, Joseph and Claiborne. Descendants of Joseph and Claiborne are Harris DNA Group 30. I would appreciate any ideas about who Rebeccah Harris Mumford was as well as any other information that would help us identify who our William Harris was. Pat Seaver
I would be particularly interested, as William's grandson, Joseph named his eldest daughter Rebecca. After his great aunt? Was Rebecca William and Elizabeth's daughter? William's sister (if so, she would have been pretty old by then)? If memory serves, we have seen no mention of daughters of William and Elizabeth, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Nor, as far as I remember any marriage records for an Elizabeth Harris to a Mumford. I'll check. Alternatively, this Rebecca could have been the daughter of John or James Harris who was associated with William Harris in Halifax and, possibly Amelia Co. Williams's brothers? Cousins? Nephews? Sons? Making Elizabeth Williams's neice, 2nd cousin, cousin once removed, etc? I'm going to see what I can find about a man named Mumford in Patrick or Halifax Co. Sandy On Dec 18, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Patricia Seaver wrote: > I find the discussion of the connections between the Harris and > Mumford families of interest. The following deed-- > > Patrick Co, VA Deed from George Rogers of Tennessee to William > Harris 14 Jan 1804 Bk 2/p 305 bordering Joshua Renfroe, Robert > Rogers, David Davis, Daniel Askew. Wit: Rebeccah Harris Mumford > > --refers to William Harris who moved from Halifax Co. VA to Stokes > Co, NC between 1798 and 1800 and to Patrick Co. by 1803. When this > William Harris first bought land in Halifax Co. in 1778, he was > "William Harris of Amelia Co. VA" on the deed. In 1779 William sold > land in Halifax Co. to a John Harris "of Amelia Co.") and in 1781 to > a James Harris. This land was in the vicinity of Difficult Creek. > > He had two known sons--Barnard b. @1768 and Elijah b. @1775; his wife > was named Elizabeth, last name unknown. The 1800 Stokes Co, NC > census indicates other males in his household and the households of > Barnard Harris and a John Harris were listed next to him (Elijah was > on the Halifax Co. VA personal property tax list through 1806, after > which he moved to Patrick Co.) > > Amelia Co. records point to a William Harris who lived in the > northwestern part of Amelia Co. in the vicinity of Sandy Creek and > Stocks Creek--between Flatt Creek and the Appomattox River. William > was closely associated in Halifax Co. with the Vasser family and the > Pringle/Prindle family, who also came to Halifax Co. from Amelia > Co. In Amelia Co. he was also associated with the Hendrick(s) > family. > > In both Halifax Co. and Patrick Co., William, Barnard and Elijah were > closely associated with the family of Peter and Martha Hudson, Sr. > The Claiborne Harris who married Sally Hudson 1789 Charlotte Co, VA > lived near William and his sons in Halifax Co. > > William's son, Elijah, married Nancy Lee, d/o William Lee, 1794 > Halifax Co. They had at least two sons, Joseph and Claiborne. > Descendants of Joseph and Claiborne are Harris DNA Group 30. > > I would appreciate any ideas about who Rebeccah Harris Mumford was as > well as any other information that would help us identify who our > William Harris was. > > Pat Seaver > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
Dear Harris-Hunters, Some of my correspondents tell me that Sarah, the wife of Benjamin Harris of colonial Louisa Co., VA was of the Dumas family. I have stumbled upon some references to Dumas families, which you may want to pass along to researchers of both Benjamin Harris and the Dumas family. Please CITE the sources. Your genealogical remarks may raise doubts in others if you do not cite your sources!!!! E.W.Wallace Goochland Co. DB..., p. 83 [page 9 of Weisiger's book - see citation below] 14 May 1729 Deed from Jeremiah Dumas of Parish of St. Paul Hanover Co. to Thomas Prosser of same parish - 325 acres in King William Parish, Goochland Co., bounded by land of Johh Pleasants, broad fork of Fine Creek, land of Capt. Jefferson. (This is from Benjamin B. Weisiger III, Goochland County, Virginia, wills and deeds, 3 vols. This is on several microfiche held by the Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Microfiche number 6101000. Each microfiche costs 15 cents, possibly more, if you order from FH Library through your local or nearby Family History Center.) This is from another source: My notes: Sarah (--) wife of Benjamin Harris (ca 1720-living in 1744) Said to be Sarah Dumas, by other reseachers (e-mails) There were a number of Dumas families in Louisa Co., VA in this time period as reflected in the deeds of that county. Jeremiah Dumas, Benja. Dumas & his wife Frances. Louisa Co. DB A-145-146 11 June 1744 Benjamin Harris and Sarah, his wife, of St. Martin's Par., Louisa, to Richmond Terrell of Blisland Par. New Kent Co. 16 pds, 6 shillings currt. money. 242 acres in St Martin's Pr... sd Richmond Terrell;s corner... Clevers Duke's line.. David Crenshaw's corner... John Chiswell's line. Benja. Harris Wit: Robert Harris, Benja. Henson, William Brown. 11 June 1744 acknowledged by Benja. Harris. Sarah, his wife, relinquished right of dower. (Rosalie Edith Davis, LOUISA COUNTY, VIRGINIA DEED BOOKS A AND B, 1742-1759 [Manchester, MO: Published by author, 1976], p. 15) Comment: I do NOT follow the Terrill family, but if you do [or your friends do], I highly recommend this book by Mrs. Rosalie Edith Davis which tells about guardianship of Richmond Terrill's minor children by several guardians, among them Fredk. Harris, 1771. (My e-mail friends tell me it seems Mrs. Davis is ill, and does not respond to e-mail communications. But someone seems to be taking care of snail-mail.) Rosalie Edith Davis, Louisa County, Virginia, 1743-1814: Where Have All the Children Gone? [Manchester, MO, published by author, 1980. E.W.Wallace **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)
The Mumford name certainly seems significant , altho it is spelled Munford in some places. It is used as a given name by some of my distant relatives on the Medlock side, ie Mumford DeJarnette. Also of interest to me is the Estes name as one of my cousins married an Estes girl and one of their sons was named Estes Bozeman. Small world,huh. My Medlocks were from VA,SC, AL and my Bozemans from GA,Fl, and points west. Of course I am still pursuing the elusive Levi Harris who married Dorothy Bozeman in Jefferson territory, Fl. in 1831. Emma in NM The Mumford name is certainly entwined with the Harris/Cargill names and puts them right with Matthew Marrable Typ patent Ref VPB 36:690 Dat 26 Sep 1764 Decl 0 To Matthew Marrable Con 40Sh. Re 800a Lunenburg/ on Cargills Creek !400a part thereof being formerly Granted to John Cargill !by Letter's Patent bearing date the 21st day of May 1744 !the right and title whereof is since become vested in the !Sd Matthew Marrable and 400a the residue never before Granted loc -6443 87123 F127 L0 P255 Pt 0. Pointers in *******Munford's ********line on the sd Cargills Creek Ln S5E; 12P; Munford Pt 1. Harris's Corner p Ln N79E; 180P; Harris Pt 2. P Ln S64E; 192P; Pt 3. P on Hogan's Creek Ln n26e; 26p; crossing Hogan's Creek Pt 4. hickory Ln n; 138p; Byrd Pt 5. P Ln n28e; 164p; [W28E?] Pt 6. wo Ln N5W; 184P; Pt 7. wo Ln S65W; 156P; Pt 8. his corner Hickory on Shavor's Branch Ln S77W; 320P; from Shavor's Branch Pt 9. P Ln S23E; 200P; Pt 10. Poplar on the sd Creek Lm ; ; down Cargills Creek end Shavors Creek is most likely Chavous Creek " Chaves Creek, located between Stiths Creek and Stony Creek in the northwest corner of Mecklenburg County, was probably named for him [Jacob Chavous a free black man] **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
again, per this patent, which pat cited re matthew marable, which had been a former patent to john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley and which was in the line of munford, etc, and, as i renoted, the munford, bolling, and stith families inter-married and, again, info can be found on them on line. i am going to, for now, cite this particular post because this person also interested in the munfords is also interested in the estes family and, as shown, info says that this thomas poore was the son-in-law of this abraham estes. again, it was this same thomas poore, who, along with robert depriest; robert harris; and george turner, were to appraise the land of this isaac morris there in hanover co, va. again, this is/ was the same robert harris, of st martin's parish, hanover co, va, who also sold land to carol's thomas harris and also to stephen davis, which was also witnessed by the depriest family. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Roberta J. Estes Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ESTES] Estes/Munford Info from Amelia County Elisha Estes, son of Abraham the immigrant lived in Amelia County for some time before he went to Halifax and then Henry where he died. His wife was Mary Ann Munford. Mary Ann's father was James Munford and this is proven by his will which is in the Amelia County records. This is not my line, but Donna Hull, who is from this line asked me to look up these names plus Thomas Poore (son-in-law of our Abraham the immigrant) and John Chaffin who is another line for her. I did the lookups and here is what I found. I hope that these will be of use to Estes researchers who descend from Elisha's line. Bobbi Estes Note - I am only extracting the items in which they are a direct player, not where they are witnesses, etc. There are just too many of those for James Munford (Mumford). I am looking for James Munford, Thomas Poore and John Chaffin. Will Book 1 (You are one lucky woman. I am very envious. I never have this kind of luck.) James Munford of Nottoway Parish will March 19 1754 probated April 25 1754 witness Daniel Jones, W. Bumpass, Samuel Pryer, Joel Farguson. Executor David Holt, son Robert Munford. Wife Elizabeth 1000 acres lower side Sweathouse Creek incl plantation for life then to son William, wife all household furniture including 1 dozen silver spoons with arms of Bolling family on them, to my executor David Holt and Robert Munford 815 acres remaining lower part my tract on Sweathouse Ck joining lines Thomas Booth, Wood Jones to be sold and money from it to pay my debts. Richard Estis son of Elisha Estis 400 acres between Samuel Gordon and myself on Seneca Ck in Lunenburg Co, son Robert remaining tract on Seneca Ck in Lunenburg. Slaves: all the negroes now on my plantation, no names mentioned except Peter and Fanny. Major James Munford estate inventory and sale returned June 25 1756 recorded June 26th by Exec David Holt Jr, Robert Munford. Slaves: Linda and her child Peter, man Ceser, girl Fanney. Names mentioned are Leonard Claiborne, Richard Claiborne, Samuel Pryor, J. Munford, Hugh Miller, D. Greenhill, Mr. Moras, Robert Munford, Laurence Wells, John Banister, John Wadlington. James Munford estate settlement returned Sept 8 1756, examined by Henry Ward and David Greenhill, names mentioned are Honor Powell (for coffin) Samuel Gordon, John Wilson, James Clark, Thomas Eggelston, Mr. Harris, Richard Booker. (OK, so now you know that he was related to the Bolling family, possibly via his wife or maybe his mother.) Will Book 2 None Court Order Book 1 1735-1746 Nothing of note except a chancery suit Clement Read vs James Munford and Mathew Talbot. In case you don't know about chancery suits, the suit packets still exist. I believe Amelia's are listed on the library of Va web site and I have a researcher who will go and copy the packet and sent it to you for very reasonable. These can be goldmiles sometimes with genealogical info going back for generations if it is a will or estate settlement that is contested. This suit ended in order book 2 July 19 1746 and the defendants defaulted so it was found against them. This is where you should look for the chancery suit - in the 1746 records. They are kept by when the suit was settled. Court Order Book 2 1746-751 Munford is there - nothing of importance He is obviously doing business there as soon as the county was formed because he appears within the first 10 pages of the book. He also obviously does not live there because he never serves on a jury or is on a road crew (his tithes) and given his station in life, he most certainly would be were he living in the county. May 17 1751 - Robert Depriest, Robert Harris, Thomas Pore and George Turner or any three to appraise and value estate of Isaac Morris in Hanover Co and make return. Will Book 2X 1761-1771 Nothing direct (the last names are listed for Munford and Mumford, but no wills for James) Misc Records 1735-1865 In a section called Amelia Landowners on the move - James Munford is in Prince George Co in 1741 and is in Raleigh Parish, Amelia in 1754 (deed book 5 page 104) Deed book 1 - James Munford of Prince George Co to Alexander Howard of Prince George July 15 1742 20# wit Daniel Jackson, Richard Glascock and Harry Strutton 196 acres on Sweat House Ck same being land Munford bought of Robert Davis whereon said Davis lived. Deed book 2 - 1742-1747 James Munford to Abraham Jones Jr March 30 1747 1 acre on Sweat House ck 30 shillings wit Richard Jones, Wood Jones, Peter Jones nd Richard Jones. 1747 - William Watson to John Hall deed ref as a bounds the 235 acres purchased by James Munford of William Coleman 1747 - James Munford Gent of Prince George Co of the first part , William Stark and Theoderick Bland of Prince George Co of the second part and Thomas Williams of same of the third part (this is a deed of trust, known today as a mortgage) Nov 13 1747 13# wit Richard Bland, Hugh Miller, Thomas Jones, J. Wayles, Samuel Gordon and Wood Jones. 518 ac branches of Nottoway River bounded by Horsepen Branch and the river for payment of his debts, James Munford conveyed all his estate both real and personal by indenture Oct 12 1741 to William Stark and Theoderick Bland as trustees and they agreed to convey to Thomas Williams this 518 acres formerly lying in Brunswick Co now in Amelia bounded as by patent to James Munford on Sept 28 1728. It goes on to say that the debt was paid. # again, these connections re our harris family and involving these same individuals and families, including my william harris, sr/ frances goode's involvement with my william harris/ judith hudson, etc, in lunenburg/ mecklenburg co, va, are quite involved and, for now, and in trying to show and establish all of this, i do not know how to make it less involved. belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8-------26910
again, per lunenburg co, va patent pat just cited wherein matthew marable had a patent for land, formerly a patent to john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, which was in munford's line, etc, as shown, per the following deed, samuel harris sold land to thomas morris, which was bounded also by munford, cargill, and stith and this was john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, who witnessed this deed. lunenburg co, va deed book 5, page 496, 1759, samuel harris of halifax co, va to thomas morris of brunswick co, va for 170 lbs a certain tract in lunenburg on the north side of the staunton river, being granted to the said samuel harris by 2 patents dated 1748, one of the patents being for 404 acres, the other for 353 acres, being about 757 acres, bounded by col byrd; munford; cargill; stith. wit: john cargill; john speed, jr; thomas dendy; john cargill, jr. again, this was the same samuel harris, who my william harris/ judith hudson also sold this island/ plantation to in the staunton river, which, again, was also witnessed by john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley and william hunt. my william harris, sr/ frances goode sold land to this same william hunt. see this deed below. also, re this deed re samuel harris to thomas morris, which bordered on munford, cargill, and stith, and which was witnessed by john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley. this deed was also witnessed by thomas dendy. again, thomas dendy and this same dendy family also inter-married with the family of john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley and his father, cornelius cargill, and this same dendy family also moved to this same little river area of laurens co, sc where my harris and goode family; john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley had obtained these ca 1770 laurens co, sc grants. lunenburg co, va deed book 2, page 57, july 3, 1750, william harris of lunenburg and cumberland parish to samuel harris of same for 60 pds, grants 1 plantation an island of 70 acres, it having been patented by william harris on april 5, 1748 and bounded by staunton river between byrd's island and cargill's island. signed: william harris. witnesses: john cargill, william hunt. recorded july 3, 1750. judith, wife of william harris, relinquished her right of dower. again, these were my william harris, sr/ frances goode, who, again, like my william harris/ judith hudson, were in 1749/ 1750 in cornelius cargill's district, which is the area that became halifax co, va. again, also, like my william harris/ judith hudson, my william harris, sr/ frances goode, per both patents and deeds, acquired land in this middle fork of the middle blue stone creek area, which it is stated is also where they lived. as shown, then, per the following deed, this would have been my william harris, sr/ france goode, who sold land to this same william hunt in this middle fork of the middle bluestone creek area. again, it is this bluestone creek area which became in 1765 mecklenburg co, va. lunenburg co, va deed book 4, page 315, 1755, william harris of lunenburg to william hunt of same for 33 pds, 236 acres on both sides of the middle fork of the bluestone creek, bounded by branch called swamp; miller. signed: william harris. witnesses: adam winders; richard palmer; robert wooding. miller, per this deed, would have been hugh miller, who, per the info was a merchant in prince george co, va, who also sold land to benjamin ragsdale and also to john gilliam, which was part of the land which was also sold in 1761 to our edward harris, sr on twitty's creek there in lunenburg/ charlotte co, va. per the info on the stiths; bollings; and munfords, hugh miller married jane bolling, daughter of robert bolling/ ann merriwether. From: "CCMILLER" < [email protected]> Subject: MILLER/BOLLING Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 08:06:37 -0500 References: <[email protected]> Descendants of Robert Bolling 1 Robert Bolling b: Jan 25, 1681/82 .. +Anne Merriwether ...... 2 Jane Bolling .......... +Hugh Miller to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8------26910
again, per patent, pat cited re matthew marable, which had been a former patent to john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley in line of a munford, harris, and on or near shavor's/ chavous branch or creek. the harris cited here would have been william harris/ judith hudson, who, as shown, per the lunenburg co, va deed just cited, sold land to jacob chavous and this bordered a hudson, who, again, was richard hudson, who my william harris/ judith hudson also sold land that bordered jacob chavous and this richard hudson was a nephew of my peter hudson, sr. again, both my william harris, sr/ frances goode and my william harris/ judith hudson were significantly involved with the will and estate of john wilborn, wife, judith, from 1757-1762 there in lunenburg co, va. whereas, again, my william harris, sr/ frances goode, along with john camp, were the executors of john wilborn's will and estate, john wilborn actually lived in this woodpecker creek/ bluestone creek area near my william harris/ judith hudson and his son thomas wilborn continued to live there. as shown, per john wilborn's will, both my william harris/ judith hudson and richard hudson witnessed john wilborn's will. also, richard hudson, along with john ragsdale, witnessed the following lunenburg co, va deed re augustine rowland to john wilborne. LUNENBURG COUNTY VIRGINIA WILLS 1746-1825 by Landon C. Bell 520. Wilburn, John 8-18-1757; 3-7-1758; W.B. 1/222 Mentions: Wife: Doesn't mention her name Children: Doesn't mention their names Executors: John Camp, William Harris Witnesses: William Harris, Richard (his X mark) Hudson, Hugh (his X mark) Mackvay. Lunenburg County VA Deed book 3.p.413 21 Dec 1753- August Rowland of Lunenburg County Va to John Wilborne of same county "that household goods I have such as Putor Pots, Bedding, two sows and pigs as I had of Henry Tally, and one gray horse as I had of Henry Talley (no consideration mentioned.) Signed -Augustine Rowland (L.S.) Witnesses: John Ragsdale Richard Hudson recorded 1 Jan 1754 again, the ragsdales themselves are a key family re our harris family not just there in this lunenburg/ mecklenburg co, va area, but also back to henrico co, va and, likewise, also on into laurens co, sc, and even on into paulding co, va, where the ragsdales still continued to be involved with our/ my harris family there. all of this re the ragsdales i have cited and talked about previously. this john camp, also, an executor of john wilborn's will is the same john camp or his son, john camp/ mary irby, who my william harris, sr/ frances goode sold this land to on wynnn creek, which, again, had been a survey to my william harris/ judith hudson and my william harris, sr/ frances goode in 1750. here again is one of these deeds re my william harris, sr/ frances goode of lunenburg co, va to john camp for this land on wynn creek: Page 199. 13 September 1764. William Harris of Lunenburg County to John Camp of same, for (pounds) 30, 400 acres, part of a tract granted by patent 15 December 1758 containing 820 acres, beginning at Sizemore's corner thence south....Buckner Stith's corner....all house, orchards, gardens, fences.... signed: William Harris. Witness: Mat. Marable, John Coleman, Edward Wade, Armd. Watlington. Recorded: 20 September 1764. again, back to this patent for matthew marable, which had been a former patent to john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley in line of munford, etc, and, as pat indicates, the shavor's branch here was likely chavous' branch and, again, as i have just cited, my william harris/ judith hudson sold land to this jacob chavous. according to pat, chavous creek was located between stith's creek and stony creek in the northwest corner of mecklenburg co, va. S65W; 156P; Pt 8. his corner Hickory on Shavor's Branch Ln S77W; 320P; from Shavor's Branch Pt 9. P Ln S23E; 200P; Pt 10. Poplar on the sd Creek Lm ; ; down Cargills Creek end Shavors Creek is most likely Chavous Creek " Chaves Creek, located between Stiths Creek and Stony Creek in the northwest corner of Mecklenburg County, was probably named for him [Jacob Chavous a free black man] again, as indicated, per this 1750 survey for my william harris, sr/ frances goode and my william harris/ judith hudson for this land on wynne creek, which, again, was land my william harris, sr/ frances goode sold to john camp, this land also bordered on buckner stith. so, this stith creek was also likely named for buckner stith or his stith family. again, this 1750 dodson survey for this land on wynn creek for william harris, sr and william harris, jr, who were my william harris, sr/ frances goode and his father, my william harris/ judith hudson bounded on anthony griffin, the sizemores, and buckner stith. Property Lines from an Old Survey Book Halifax County, Virginia 1741-1901, by Roger C. Dodson. VA-NC Piedmont Genealogical Society, 1998. William Harris, Sr. & Jr. 1750 820a Wynns Cr. & Powels br. Neighbors &near vicinity: Margery Sizemore, James Sizemore, George Sizemore, Henry Sizemore, William Sizemore, Robert Wooding, William Williamson, Joseph Shaw,William McHenry, Richard Powell, Anthony Griffin, Buckner Stith, John Powel, Benj. Hall, Andrew Wade (Dodson--Property Lines...Halifax) to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna grouo 8-------26910
this is a follow-up to pat re these cargill; harris; munford, etc, connections there in lunenburg co, va but, also, just to mention first. in reviewing, i have renoted, which can be found on line, etc, that the stiths and bollings inter-married with the munfords and these were noted families in their day. so, again, it would seem someone could have been named for the munfords but not necessarily related to them. to continue, per this patent to matthew marable, which pat just posted and which had been a previous patent to john cargill, sr/ rachel tinsley, this land was also near harris and this shavor's/ chavous creek named for jacob chavous. Matthew Marrable Con 40Sh. Re 800a Lunenburg/ on Cargills Creek !400a part thereof being formerly Granted to John Cargill !by Letter's Patent bearing date the 21st day of May 1744 !the right and title whereof is since become ........ 5. P Ln n28e; 164p; [W28E?] Pt 6. wo Ln N5W; 184P; Pt 7. wo Ln S65W; 156P; Pt 8. his corner Hickory on Shavor's Branch Ln S77W; 320P; from Shavor's Branch Pt 9. P Ln S23E; 200P; Pt 10. Poplar on the sd Creek Lm ; ; down Cargills Creek end Shavors Creek is most likely Chavous Creek " Chaves Creek, located between Stiths Creek and Stony Creek in the northwest corner of Mecklenburg County, was probably named for him [Jacob Chavous a free black man] again, per the following lunenburg co, va deed, my william harris/ judith hudson sold in 1761 land to jacob chavous on the south side of the little bluestone creek land that bordered on hudson. the hudson that this land bordered on was richard hudson, who my william harris/ judith hudson also sold land to and this richard hudson was the nephew and legatee of my peter hudson, sr. lunenburg co, va deed book 6, page 475, 1761, william harris of lunenburg co, va to jacob chavas of lunenburg co, va for 8 pds, 100 acres on the south side of the little blue stone creek, being part of a larger tract and bounded by a new line, the old line, hudson. signed: william harris. no witnesses. judith, wife of william harris, relinquished her right of dower. lunenburg co, va deed book 6, page 496, 1761, william harris of lunenburg co, va to richard hudson of same for 5 pds, 50 acres on branches of little bluestone creek bounded by chavas; askins; burton. no witnesses. judith, wife of william harris, relinquished her right of dower. here again, is an excerpt from the 1752 halifax co, va will of my peter hudson, sr, stating that this richard hudson was his nephew and that my judith hudson harris was his daughter. Fourth Richard Hudson my Nephew Two Hundred Acres in Lunenberg County on Buffalow Creek above said Begin at the fork where ......... Branch makes out of the said Buffalow thence on ..............Creek and ....... branch for the compliment of two hundred acres ............................. ....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Item ........................................... Them to the best Advantage and after my Lawful Debts are paid that then the remainder of the money ........ by the sale of the said land shall be equally divided among all my children, Viz Sarah Parker, Judith Harris, Peter Hudson, James Hudson, Daniel Hudson, William Hudson, Phebe Hudson, and David Hudson which said money I give to them, their Heirs and Assigns forever. to be continued: belva harris cauthen harris dna group 8------16910