I can not add information to our Martin and John problem. I just go over and over the same information I have and can't find any new clues. Kay sent me one time a letter from Nancy saying that John was an orphan and lived in household of Jonas Lipe-- he was the brother of my 4th Greatgrandfather The Lipe family came from Switzerland- my line joins them with Julia Ann Lipe and Levi Harkey. - grandson of Martin. Sidney Levi Harkey said that Jonas Lipe was (writing to his girls) "Married to Your Grandmothers Aunt" He was married to 1 Christina Meisenheimer and then Christina Huber/Hoover????? From what I read in Sidney L. Harkey's private Journal --He was not firm on dates or information on his earlier ancestors before his father. From the LDS Germany -- Johannes Herche parent was Conrad and his parent was Melchoir and His was Adam-- all living in Sterbfritz Hesse Nassau Germany. Possibly moved there after the ?100 years war? From Switzerland. Interesting to note that Melchoir's wife was Weigand with a connection to Lipe. I am just rambling on and on. We still need German information. I am waiting for some. Hopefully. There is maybe still a son of Johannes Herche. Missing listed in places as JOHN. IF Johannes Herche is ours>??? We are building a house on sinking sand. We have to get the early stuff. We may never find proof but we have to find enough so we can agree with each other. Mary Russell [email protected] [email protected] Glasgow Kentucky